I’ll say it every time: it’s their platform, their servers, their choice. However, we owe them nothing. If they want to go it alone, we need to let them. Let them hire paid moderators and we should delete our content so they have to create their own.
We built the communities there, we can do it again elsewhere. We have the expertise and the desire.
we should delete our content so they have to create their own.
Any content that users have posted to reddit became theirs with the TOS you had to agree to first. They've already undeleted user submitted content deleted as part of the protests. I agree it's time to cut them loose and move on, but you won't be able to retroactively stop them from profiting off the content they already have.
You also agree that we may remove metadata associated with Your Content, and you irrevocably waive any claims and assertions of moral rights or attribution with respect to Your Content.
i.e. whatever you post, we can completely remove your name, do whatever we want with it, make you say whatever we want, claim you eat dead puppies, etc.
I don't know HOW that can be legal. That's certainly NOT the user agreement I signed when I joined (2018 version). At the least it should not apply to content made before June 2023. (ianal)
True. We can make them pay to develop a solution to sift and present it coherently.
If they undelete threaded content, they have to undelete the context. If the go full minimax solution and undelete everything.. they have caused serious problems.
There seems some confusion over its legality though, and people talking about reporting it to attorney generals etc. But that protection if private information: the information that they put on a public platform, agree to display publicly, to strangers; that's not private information at all.
You may as well say that people on the street have no right to observe that you walked into the McDonald's next to them, and you will report them for stalking. It's not merely unenforceable, it makes you look foolish to even threaten that it is.
I wouldn't put much past Hoffman or his admins at this point, but what people are suggesting as malice is extremely unlikely. The idea that Hoffman has commanded the few admin staff he's decided to keep on staff to go through arbitrary users to restore an arbitrary number of comments is farfetched.
It's far more likely that comments are from locked subs becoming visible again, and/or that the sheer server load from so many users making requests to delete/edit their content is leading to 503 errors, or database writing issues. Reddit code is basically one long string of spaghetti at this point.
I live where the laws are less helpful. EU and California have the helpful ones. But as a non-resident, my understanding is that the law allows full removal of personal info. Deleting posts would be selective removal and doesn't have the "and I live in the right place" question.
If you read the TOS, no, the content does not become Reddit’s. The user retains all ownership rights, but grants Reddit a very broad license to use the content. There’s another section that allows users to delete their content (which is consistent with them retaining ownership rights, although of course this doesn’t mean Reddit loses its license to use/copy the content).
This distinction is important—what Reddit is doing here is not taking the content and copying it and reposting it from its own Reddit accounts, it’s putting it back under the user’s original account. Under the TOS, they do have a license to use, distribute, etc. the user’s content. They are not required to give credit to the original poster if they do so. But this does not mean they’re allowed to put content back under someone’s name/account/original comment, thereby attributing that content to the user, after the user has deleted it.
I don’t know all the details of their TOS, just what I’ve read from it. And I have no idea if anyone is going to sue them or anything, or even whether a suit could be successful.
But as far as whether you give your content to Reddit, you don’t, you just give them a license to use it. If you want, you can read down to #5 and see the part I’m referring to. Reddit Terms and Conditions. I think the other part about being able to delete your content is in there somewhere as well.
I mean, sort of? They do technically own the servers and the code, but all of the content and moderation was provided by users. The idea that this should be a unilateral decision by the company is like saying that Fiverr and UpWork freelancers should not have a say in how those platforms are run. Strictly, narrowly, letter of the law as written, it's true. But it completely ignores where both the revenue and the value for those platforms actually comes from.
It's their decision...but arguably it shouldn't be. And that's also an important aspect of this conversation.
Most of that was from subs coming back online. You can only delete visible content. I’ve been going back every few days and deleting the stuff that came back online.
I've just been sorting my comments by highest score and replacing a dozen or so each day with something like "-> fediverse". So far none have been restored. Most of the lower scored comments don't have value to anyone anyway so I'm just ordering by most impact until I get bored.
Not participating isn't the only choice.
On days I'm feeling particularly petty I go into discussions and vote down the good comments and vote up the bad ones just to make the signal to noise ratio worse. Yes, I'm that petty.
That will come automatically once my 3rd party app doesn't work any more. Hopefully some Lemmy apps will be available in the App Store soon. The website on mobile is quite suboptimal.
While there may be cases of actual restoration of deleted content, I've been purging daily since about 5 days post-blackout on my (220k karma) main account, and the "restored" content I'm having to clean up is, afaict, exclusively from single subs at this point, some of which I know have switched their privacy/blackout status between purges.
I think this is incompetence and gross negligence, not intentional misconduct. So far.
Engagement is what drives social media. Upvotes, likes, page views, searches are the fuel for their algorithms. (Or at least that's what it seems to me.)
For what it's worth, I used Power Suite Delete to replace everything in my 14 year account with a deleted message, haven't seen anything get reverted yet.
"The person that spread that?" Are you being serious? That's happened to a lot of people. It's happened to me repeatedly. In fact I'm right now yet again deleting a bunch of posts that stayed deleted for days and are mysteriously back again.
Oh fuck no. The very first line is basically a HIPAA violation. It gets worse from there. We require less disclosure from Supreme Court Justices and Presidential nominees.
This is a trainwreck waiting to happen - even if Facebook itself doesn't abuse this level of power, you know that bad actors within the organization will. And once the information is collected, you know that tyrannical governments all over the world will be falling over themselves to get access to the data. This is a stalker's wetdream, an Orwellian orgasm of truly grotesque proportions.
Keep the Fediverse from Zucking. Just say no to Threads.
I'm all for the outrage, but what did people expect? It's the same amount of information already collected through the Facebook and Instagram apps, it's nothing really new.
ETA: just to be extremely clear, that's a bad thing.
It’s not a HIPPA violation. That law doesn’t apply to companies like Meta beacause they do not fit the definition of an entity that the law was written towards. This is just people freely giving away their personal health information and nothing more. From your own link:
The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals’ medical records and other individually identifiable health information (collectively defined as “protected health information”) and applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically.
So … medical information is only protected if handled by medical professionals. If the abusive mega-corporation owned by a psycho billionaire wants to do whatever the fuck they want with it, good luck.
The gist of HIPAA is that the patient decides who knows their health status. If they want to announce every rash and sniffle on Meta and thus to every advertiser and government agent in existence, HIPAA won’t stop them.
Doctors are allowed to broadcast their own, personal health issues all over social media, but not anyone else’s.
HIPPA is a law that governs how people and companies within the healthcare system in the US are allowed (and required) to handle, protect, and share data. It was definitely needed, and rectified a lot of bad practices - health care providers were really very sloppy and cavalier about handling data - but even with that limited scope, it’s very complicated.
It doesn’t cover anybody else. Yes, health information SHOULD absolutely be protected more stringently so that OTHER major players can’t abuse your privacy, but that wasn’t the focus of HIPPA.
@Arotrios Why would I want an inferior version of mastadon? But seriously I will likely only end up with one if they auto generate it. (a few family use ig and fb as their only communication so it's checked occasionally via web with adblockers etc....ugh).
You know, that every post or comment you make on lemmy/kbin can be sent to every federated instance and stored (collected) there? And those comments/posts may contain any of the information from the list, especially when aggregated from different sources and with all the basic meta-data available.
A company as big as meta needs to explicitly state that or they will have serious legal problems.
Of course, we know that Meta will want to abuse that data to monetize as much of it as possible and they have means to do so. On the other hand rogue federated instances could also abuse our data. That is the cost of being open. Company providing closed service can better protect our privacy, but we cannot trust them to do so (especially when the make money by processing and selling data).
I think those problems cannot be solved by technology – open or proprietary, but need to be solved by regulations and law enforcement. And at the same time the regulations should not block all data sharing, as then fediverse could not exist (now I wonder if lemmy/kbin can even be 'legal' according to GDPR, but IANAL). Tough problem.
Ok and how is this worse than what Facebook already does? Or TikTok? Or Instagram?
You list all these things as if this new platform is going to be the first and only thing to harvest all your personal data. Like it’s shocking and new and so much worse
How is it worse? It’s the same bullshit. If you already have Facebook, and most do unfortunately, they are already doing that. And I would bet TikTok takes this much and more and has worse actors.
@bathrobe I don't know about tiktok, but I think that it is the same data that Facebook collects. And the worst is what we have at the end, "Other Data". That means, each moment Meta can decide to collect yet more things without to inform the user.
I am not condoning it happening here. I’m saying it’s really bad that they can see your DMs. And people are trying to brush it off as if it’s no big deal
It’s a HUGE fucking deal. And it’s not acceptable in the slightest. There is a reason I don’t have TikTok or Snapchat or Instagram accounts and have never downloaded the apps. And it’s not because I’m super cool with this stuff.
@snooggums i guess i was the only one that read OP that way. I was trying to say that it's more of the same, that it isn't novel or new, and we shouldn't be surprised. my impression was OP was saying "look at how crazy this is" as in "no one has ever done this before!"
The OP is trying to make it seem that it’s new and shocking when it clearly is the same shit almost all the other social media apps do. Try reading better or understanding context.
Fucking idiots all over the internet think that once you say one critical thing you’re immediately the enemy. Fucking grow up, kid. Why the fuck do you think I’m here?
It's worse because a large portion of people here are the people who don't use Facebook/instagram/tiktok. So while this isn't a new extreme in terms of privacy breaches, it is a new level in terms of what's potentially affecting us directly.
It's worth nothing because it's trying to come here, hungry, grasping, looking to wriggle its tentacles into our federated spaces and suck as much content and data and joy out of us as possible. This is a coordinated corporate effort, with the backing of millions of dollars, to bring centralized control to federated spaces. Their play is that once those spaces become reliant on the traffic that Facebook brings, they'll acquiesce to the weight of the corporate presence, particularly when it comes to developing new features or engaging data security.
Big tech companies do this all the time with promising new open source projects, gaining control of them in the growth phase through their support and audience, and then throwing their weight around once their presence becomes a necessity. Plus, its very likely that the federated nature of instances means that if you post content on your instance of choice, it will end up on Facebook if federated with them. Right now, if you want to avoid the Zuckening, you can do so by not having Facebook, Insta, Tinder, or any of the services that motherzucker runs. If #threads becomes a thing the Fediverse relies on, you can bet your bottom dollar it will zuck the life out of the place if it can't directly control it.
Absolutely. I completely agree. I have Facebook because I have friends and family that basically require I use that to contact them. Never downloaded messager or any other thing. Not that they don’t have everything from Facebook anyway.
But the person I was responding to wasn’t making the point that everything Zuck touches turns to shit and a money grab that torches user experience. Or that they are trying to stop any potential competitor or subsume them.
They’re saying “look at all this data it’s going to harvest!!! Isn’t that INSANE?!?” When it’s literally the same almost every social media app on your phone does/has. There are a ton of arguments against anything zuck touches. Pretending the data harvesting is going to be new or groundbreaking is dishonest. Especially when, as I said, I would bet tiktok does all that and more. And it goes to a much worse actor.
They’re saying “look at all this data it’s going to harvest!!! Isn’t that INSANE?!?” When it’s literally the same almost every social media app on your phone does/has.
Just stopping by to point out that these are in no way mutually exclusive. Just because existing social media collects an insane amount of data, doesn't mean the amount of data being collected by threads isn't also insane.
Again the whole point of my comment is to express how UNORIGINAL it is what threads is doing
It’s terrible. I want no part of it. But we shouldn’t treat it as a brand new slew of invasions when it is most certainly the same invasions most people happily take.
But OP should make it seem like threads is going to be the first and only app that harvests that much, varied data. That’s dishonest.
I never got the impression that this was new or different from the comment OP, just that the level of data gathered was insane/over broad. Which I think we can all agree is the case.
Also, nothing in their post was incorrect, it's a stalkers wet dream, have wild potential for government abuse, and people within the org would abuse it - both things that we know are factually accurate given the shit that's gone down over the decades.
ALSO also, just because the current apps gather an insane amount of data doesn't mean the public is aware of the Faustian bargain they've agreed to. With new products/platforms being created, it's best to point out to everyone just how much they're giving up to join. I know I was one of those who had a Facebook for a while and bailed once I found out just how bad it was.
i think we can all agree with everything you said there.
I definitely got the impression from OP that you did not, but I am more than happy to admit I am not perfect, and I can take wrong meanings from things with the best of them.
cause i think we are all saying the same thing - this is fucking horrible, and no one should use any app of platform that harvests data from you this way. I just wanted to make it clear that this level of harvesting is not new. it's not, like, going beyond a new threshold. this is what everyone signs up for when they get tiktok or facebook or even messenger.
we should be angry but not act shocked. you know what i mean?
That's a click-baity headline that doesn't really match the content of the article. Microsoft isn't going to be replacing desktop Windows installations with cloud installations, and nowhere in the article does it suggest it is. Many, many businesses require Windows installed on the desktop (and no, many of those can't switch to Linux, because the software they use is usually Windows-only). The article doesn't dig into who is currently using Windows 365 to stream the OS, but I would assume it's companies that are running computer kiosks, point-of-sale systems, or systems that would otherwise be extremely locked-down (like bank teller systems). Businesses that need system flexibility and resource-intensive applications aren't going to be using a cloud-based OS. Pretty-much any business that does engineering or creative work falls into that bucket.
My interpretation of the article is that they want to extend cloud-based Windows to other users that have extremely lightweight requirements. The biggest market I see is the education market, where you generally want to provide students with very locked down functionality. The article mentions competition with Chromebooks, which is also huge in the education space. I could see this as a competitor to an iPad/tablet too, for those who mostly do browsing, email, or lightweight web-based MS Office tasks and want to have a keyboard and mouse.
TL;DR: People are wildly misinterpreting this article, and there isn't going to be any kind of mass exodus to Linux because of Microsoft investing in Windows 365. Microsoft isn't going to stop selling installable copies of Windows.
yup, microsoft has made great strides in creating individual windows instances in the cloud for business purposes. This makes sense to their long term goals to support business. local installations are a different discussion.
Microsoft still sells single, non subscription licenses for Office. I think Windows is safe for the forseeable future, especially since they sell it to OEMs...
I think it's basically the same idea as Citrix. They're targeting the same market, anyway, as far as I understand. I assume they each have their own pros and cons.
I'm not an economist but that seems like a pro for Microsoft and a con for Citrix. Though, seemingly, Microsoft's approach, naturally, centers around their own devices and OS rather than Citrix's approach where just about every device/OS has an available application that can be used.
I would assume it's companies that are running computer kiosks, point-of-sale systems, or systems that would otherwise be extremely locked-down (like bank teller systems).
As an example, we're currently evaluating it as an option for doctors to access certain EMRs offsite where it doesn't make sense to provide them an entire workstation, e.g., community doctors working from their private practices.
Yep, you're absolutely right. I think my main point is that switching to only offering a cloud-streamed OS as their only offering would kill off a massive market where they have market dominance (enterprise desktops). It doesn't make business sense for them to leave that market. If the demands of that market change, then you're right -- they're going to do whatever is most profitable. But we're nowhere near there yet.
Because why would a business buy a computer for $1k that they can write off by depreciating the value of, when they can not own a less useful, less powerful one that only works when there is internet for only $100 per month instead?
I'm absolutely with you. Boiling frog and all. 10 years ago nobody would have believed that you'd require an online account to log into your local machine.
As soon as it's viable from a business point of view (as in people will swallow it), it will be cloud only.
Microsoft isn't going to be replacing desktop Windows installations with cloud installations, and nowhere in the article does it suggest it is.
I'd say Microsoft's long term needle-moving strategy including the bullet point "Move Windows 11 increasingly to the cloud" suggests it pretty strongly. Calling it "needle-moving" says to me that they want the cloud to be more and more the expected default, rather than an option that exists alongside desktop installs.
Perhaps I've just read too many Microsoft business documents (I used to work for them years ago), but that's not how I interpret that slide. It looks more to me like they want to "cloud-ify" functionality that could be used either from a desktop install or from a cloud streamed version. The key phrase in that slide to me is "Use the power of the cloud and client to enable improved AI-powered services and full roaming of people's digital experience".
That kind of fits with what they've been doing by moving Windows login to use a Microsoft Account by default (which I hate, btw -- I'm one of those local account people), as well as integration of OneDrive as default file save location. It's the same kind of thing Apple's been doing with macOS for the past few years, adding iCloud integration with everything. If you move that functionality for desktop installs to mostly be cloud-based, it also allows you to create a more viable cloud-only offering. But it doesn't mean there's a reason to stop selling a desktop-installable version.
Microsoft is still a business, and they'd lose a ton of market-share by killing off desktop installs, especially in the enterprise sector, which is their bread and butter. They're looking to expand into other markets, not kill off large existing ones.
Glad someone is calling this out. Came from a link elsewhere and the headline just screamed no fucking way. Users won’t tolerate buying a machine only to stream the fucking OS from elsewhere. Sounds more like when I had to stream a desktop from AWS to access my schools licensed Adobe suite.
"Investors are fed up. Fidelity, which led Reddit’s $700 million funding round in 2021 with a $10 billion valuation, has cut its Reddit company valuation by 41% since it invested. This could scupper Reddit’s plans to eventually go public with a reported valuation of $15 billion."
That Fidelity valuation change happened back in May 2022, so it's unrelated to the API clusterfuck beyond perhaps being a factor in motivating spez to be more of a greedy pig boy.
Either way, I'm not crazy about this Forbes article being so misleading about that point and I'm glad you seem to have gotten some people set straight. Never fun to see people arguing for a side I agree with while using incorrect information.
The reddit CEO presuming victory is EXACTLY what will help people hold the line. "Oh it's over huh? You were double-faced, caught in the act, totally unreasonable and now you win? Hmmm"
I absolutely hope subs stay dark indefinitely following this response. Make it absolutely hurt. Make it a pain to build the site back to what it was on June 11th.
Or have a second coordinated blackout on July 1st, with all the mods asking their users to migrate to the fediverse. If literally thousands of subreddits close and ask their users to migrate, it could kick off a significantly larger wave than the current one.
There isn't even a fraction of enough capacity in the fediverse to absorb 450 million daily active users overnight unfortunately. Kbin struggled yesterday growing to ~125,000 users.
And now the game is being played on the field that u/spez actually cares about--the field full of cash machines.
He clearly doesn't give a fuck about users or mods, but here's a bit of proof that there is a relationship between we the little people, and he the raging greed-machine.
Listen up spez, and listen up all you other greedy fucks lining your pockets around the world, power concentration throughout history has often led to breaking points, and that doesn't always end so well for those who own yachts.
No matter how you may pronounce guillotine, the blade remains razor sharp.
After reading the article the API fees make a lot more sense. AIs are using Reddit comments to train and massive companies are getting it for free. The data the community has generated is insanely valuable for training models, and big guys liked Microsoft and Google are getting it for free.
Best case scenario is Reddit makes a "developer" tier with lower cost API access.
Forbes (echoing spez) argues that the role of Reddit's data in training LLMs is what's driving the API cost increase. But the fact that nobody is mentioning web scraping -- i.e. the way LLM training data is taken from the rest of the web, and the way that LLM training data will be taken from Reddit in the absence of API access -- the fact that no one is mentioning that LLMs will continue collecting and training on Reddit data for free through scraping, tells me that this was only ever a fig leaf and an excuse to kill 3rd party apps.
I'm really glad someone finally said it! It's to force everyone into their ad revenue machine. Web Scraping will still show up as impressions for ads and the API pricing snafu will force everyone to Reddit's native app with... gues what? ads.
Not to mention that scraping web data has been happening for the entire existence of reddit, or the LLMs doing the same didn't just start in 2022 or 2023. It became a mainstream story in the last few months, however, and thus is a sufficiently techy cover story to sell the financial bros!
Plus it is always an option to offer different prices for different users. They could charge 10x as much for AI usage if they wanted to. That's perfectly legal.
The app owners will work with him to prevent AI training from taking data from the site for free. And any issues the third party apps have doing that will be shared by the official app. They're not special in that regard. You can't really have public secrets behind a paywall. It doesn't really work.
There are many, many options here that are only being held back by Huffman's ego. Imagine losing billions in valuation because of personal ego. I bet investors are thrilled.
Getting info out of an API is generally easier, because it will always give you data in a format that's easy to parse.
But all this will probably see more web crawling bots crop up
It's not just his ego but also his incompetence which has been very apparent for his entire tenure. I really don't get how they've be never managed to find someone who's up to the job.
Very much so! Personally I'm taking on my own Reddit Blackout in solidarity with mods and frankly, I'm hoping Kbin/Lemmy win out in this whole thing. People make and moderate the content that Reddit lives by. I lived through /. (slashdot) and Digg exoduses and it seems that we've finally hit the inflection point with Reddit. I'd rather stay off Reddit and give my contributions to someplace that actually cares and isn't beholden to a corporate behemoth and that will grow with it's users, not abuse them.
For anyone not in the know, shorting and/or buying puts is not a good idea in an IPO even if you think the IPO is doomed. The real reason most IPOs happen these days is so insiders and shareholders can dump their bags on the unwitting public. Volatility crush will likely wreck any options bought at IPO. The days of buying a company at their public offering price because you believe the company is a good one are long gone, so really the only people that are in a position to profit from having an IPO are previous shareholders and market makers who profit from options spreads and front-running retail.
Just as a general warning to anyone who sees shorting reddit as any kind of protest move, you will get fucked.
Note that this cut in valuation has nothing to do with the blackout. It's actually old news. Forbes did mention it in their most recent article, but the majority of the drop in valuation was last year.
Fidelity, the lead investor in Reddit’s most recent funding round in 2021, has slashed the estimated worth of its equity stake in the popular social media platform by 41% since the investment.
Fidelity Blue Chip Growth Fund’s stake in Reddit was valued at $16.6 million as of April 28, according to the fund’s monthly disclosure released over the weekend. That’s down 41.1% cumulatively since August 2021 when the asset manager spent $28.2 million to acquire the Reddit shares, according to disclosures the firm has made in its annual and semi-annual reports. […]
The substantial markdown of Reddit’s value by Fidelity predominantly occurred by the previous year. Nevertheless, it merits pointing out that Fidelity has persistently implemented minor reductions in the worth of Reddit’s shares in the ensuing months.
I think the whole article is actually more charitable to Reddit and Steve Huffman than it ought to be.
The author mentions that the API changes were "announced in April" and go into effect July 1, but failed to mention that the April announcement didn't include pricing info. That is a very important detail for Forbes to include considering it's central motivator for the entire protest!
The other miss is not at least questioning if Huffman's claim that LLM/AI data scraping was a big motivator for the API changes. I can't say that is false without evidence, but it doesn't hold up to my own scrutiny, and it should certainly be challenge and interrogated from a journalism perspective. However, I will give them a pass on this one since it's not financial and that is this publication's focus and expertise.
I think most of the mainstream articles about this have been more charitable to Reddit and Steve Huffman than they ought to be. Someone coming in cold with no sense of the context here could easily walk away with the idea that Reddit is behaving reasonably (e.g., why shouldn't they charge for API usage? they're a company trying to make money!) and users and mods are completely out of control. These articles rarely address the concerning accessibility issues being created by the API changes. They rarely address the price to be charged is vastly larger than the price that it costs to provide API access/recoup losses from inability to advertise to 3P users. They don't address the fact that the changes were announced with barely any lead time to allow 3P apps to make necessary changes on their end to avoid insane fees. They also don't address the fact that Steve Huffman pointedly lied about Christian Selig threatening to blackmail Reddit, that he doubled down on this in his AMA, and that if you sift through his c&p statements, he doesn't actually answer questions or provide any kind of information or reassurance. It's annoying. But hey! At least there's significant coverage of this, I guess. (And at least Huffman is still making idiotic statements, thereby throwing fuel onto the fire.)
The article the quote was pulled from is about the blackout. The bit in it about Fidelity dropping their valuation 41% cites news from April, well before any of this drama really started.
I’m not surprised that Fidelity is losing faith in Reddit. The way Steve completely alienated the whole community, well he's basically shooting himself in the foot.
I've personally watched a CEO torpedo his own company's IPO before, so don't think it's in any way impossible.
This was a couple decades ago during the dot-com boom. The CEO made some really boneheaded mistakes, like letting some of his salespeople sell shares before the offering. There were other problems, including anti-customer behavior and sketchy terminations.
The underwriters looked at the facts and said 'nope', and that was during the dot-com boom. That company no longer exists as its own entity. I can't imagine that investors and underwriters today aren't a LOT more careful.
Frankly, I wonder how Spez is still employed at Reddit. If I were on the board and saw 8000+ subs go dark, I'd be asking for his letter, golden parachute or no.
Also he admitted they don't make money and said they need to be profit driven til they do.
To me that says he's not sure this will actually make Reddit profitable; so looking at it from a detached, "I just care about the money" perspective I'd be really nervous about investing in Reddit. Feels like Spez would just light it all on fire.
Wait until he starts retroactively editing posts and/or deleting and shadowbanning against mutinous mods. I really hope the blackout keeps rolling a week or two and they see their ad rev and user impressions tank.
Spez already said they aren't changing their minds. And by the time the realize they might want to, it's going to be too late.
I posted about kbin.social in a comment thread from RIF and saw my comment posted, but when I checked under my profile the next day, the comment was gone. Not deleted by mods or reddit....just gone, like it never existed.
This was shortly after reddit banned the kbin subreddit for "spamming".
First time something like that has ever happened in the 10+ years I've been on there. Pretty much cemented my decision to stay away unless major changes happen.
The 1% really believe AI is their golden ticket to get rid of all of us. They’re going after professions with strong unions first and publicly, so that they can try to poison us all against collective bargaining, which is our only chance against them.
All Reddit had to do was STFU and wait for a month or two. Lack of any reaction or results is probably the most demotivating thing in all human experience. Go forward with the plan, say nothing, give no interviews, send no messages, do nothing to the mods or the subreddits, and within just a couple weeks, the users would get bored and force the place to return to normal. Either through pressuring their mods or just starting new subreddits with the same theme as the closed ones. The effect on the front page and the common lurker would be minimal and transient.
Instead, Spez has to go around slinging shit from his diaper at literally every opportunity, taking more and more extreme actions, hiding behind a fake mod name, saying super salty things to everyone, etc. He's basically the only person continuing to add fuel to this dumpster fire. It's literally just him. If he got sick or hit by a bus or something and had to shut up for even just a week while he was recovering, Reddit would lose interest in the whole thing, because without a visible enemy to fight, the users would turn their frustrations on each other. But he's clearly suffering from some deep psychic wound that keeps him from being able to shut his pie hole.
My guess, a month or two delay doesn't fit into their timeline. It shows with the rush to API change, and the "convenient" July 1 (3rd quarter) start date. They're going all out to prove Fidelity's valuation downgrade wrong, and show a full quarter of Reddit's revenue potential.
I had only planned to leave Reddit once their API pricing impacted apps. But then spez/Huffman decided to go around bad mouthing all of us old guard reditors and moderators, so now fuck him. I'm not going back even for a day or two.
I left Reddit and deleted my accounts a few hours after the subs went dark and my feed dried up. I don't use mobile apps, I have no horse in that race at all.
It just wasn't an enjoyable place to be anymore, and that's all because of spez.
Honestly when they first came out with their new api pricing I thought well that sucks, but I get that they are not profitable and realy need money. So I joined the 3 day protest, but in general planed to stay. But the second spez started to throw shit in every direction and just wouldn't stop I said fuck it and left
He can't reverse course and admit defeat now, reddit will keep trying to strongarm mods because they have to win and show that they're in control and not their mods or their users. Ultimately they do have all the power and can ban everyone and remove all the mods and replace them, but it will damage the site. Spez doesn't care though, even if the entire site is burned to the ground, he'll have won. And he'll blame everyone else for his loss of IPO value.
After reading Spez's interviews I deleted the reddit bookmark on my browser. Once Apollo shuts down I'm deleting the only reddit app on my devices. That dude is a tool.
I downloaded an extension that can automatically redirect me to another website that way if, by force of habit, I try to go to reddit, it redirects me here.
It's not just spez. It's the board that probably made the decision to disable API access, and that can remove spez if they choose to. But they won't, because they want the enshittification necessary to let them cash out once they go public.
Maybe he's a willing scapegoat for the board with a promised golden parachute? I just can't think of how somebody can get that far and be so tone deaf.
No like even today, if he came out with an honest apology video and offered to work with devs on a reasonable API price plan he could still mostly recover and keep all the low effort users.
But for some reason he's hell bent on actually crashing the community. Even the lurkers are starting to jump ship. It's either sociopathic narcissism or a high school shaped ego, but he just can't let it go.
To add a bit more context, this comment is from a former Reddit dev, who is now the creator and developer of Tildes, one of the Reddit alternatives that's been gaining traction in the last week:
(I used to work as a backend developer at Reddit - I left 6 years ago but I doubt the way things work has changed much)
I think it's extremely unlikely that this is deliberate. The way that Reddit builds "mixed" subreddit listings (where you see posts from multiple subreddits, like users' front pages) is inefficient and strange, and relies heavily on multiple layers of caches. Having so many subreddits private with their posts inaccessible has never happened before, and is probably causing a bunch of issues with this process.
If you're serious about joining Tildes I would recommend to read the announcement blog post and follow the instructions. Despite the age and disclaimer it still works, though given the current situation I can't speak to wait times
Same. At this point, I'm open to using almost any reddit-like site that isn't reddit. With this many disgruntled former users, there's bound to at least one major alternative that blows up, just a matter of finding (and seeding) it.
That's the main difference, with federation there is no "main" site, in fact apparently that's not wanted.
What I'm trying to figure out right now is how I can find an app that can access not just Kbin, but Mastadon, lemmy, Pexelfed, Peertube, etc..
I'd like better ways to discover external communities/magazines from kbin, tho. I'm finding it easiest to make an account on each of the major lemmy/kbin instances and browse them each in turn.
When I find one I really like, I subscribe from kbin, but I also like to browse things I'm not subscribed to and it's hard to do that for the entire reddit-alike fediverse from within any one instance.
I think part of the solution here is just patience. All of the Fediverse solutions are pretty immature, and most of them are still smoothing out issues in both hardware and software. Given time, those issues will be resolved and then functionality will expand, including smoother federation and content sharing.
I believe it. I was a backend engineer for a different large tech site. The queries and sorting for large, heavily accessed data sets can be expensive, especially with complicating factors like privacy, hierarchy, or Reddit's various hotness/best/rising/etc sorting logic involved. This stuff relies on a whole lot of different layers of caching to function.
Every time a subreddit went dark, there were a whole lot of caches being made stale, getting flushed, or being regenerated.
Funny enough, I bet the way the going-dark process progressed (a steady trickle) was much more taxing on their infrastructure than if the subreddits had coordinated a unified going-dark all at the same time, say at midnight GMT. Easier to regenerate everything all at once than it is to have to repeatedly invalidate caches again and again.
That didn't occur to me, I've done something similar too, your explanation makes perfect sense. A bunch of dev constantly having to throw out the new caches they just finished generating.
My initial response was "probably everywhere, duh". But then I remembered that Reddit tried to throw Apollo under the bus, claiming that their API usage was only high because of inefficient code.
As I recall, Apollo (Christian S.) responded by open-sourcing their backend. Maybe Reddit should do the same?
Christian also pointed out that Reddit's own app is equally inefficient, using the same number of API calls as Apollo when browsing the same subreddits.
I use Android so I can't speak to the Iphone app, but the official android app uses way too much data. Looking at a few posts in the official app uses about 1 gig of my mobile data, while rif uses a few mb, looking at the same few posts.
Dropped Reddit a month ago after 12 years of daily use and while it was tough in the initial days Lemmy/Kbin activity has really picked up and is beginning to absolutely fill the gap. Just need the apps and a bit more stability and think it's going to be a proper successor.
There are a few (very few) communities I am still waiting to become active and useful here but Reddit has been moved to page 4 or my social media folder and I rarely ever scroll to it.
Good riddance too. The move to Lemmy/Kbin also pushed me back onto Mastodon and I could not be happier.
Edit: just realized kbin isnt on there. Kbin is another Lemmy-affiliated site, but it also lets you see mastodon posts. You need a seperate kbin login to use it, but the site looks similar and behaves similarly to any Lemmy instance.
When the protest started I poked around the Fediverse and it was a ghost town and was a little concerned that Reddit might not have any competition. But since the end of June posts and content have been going way up, and the quality of the posts is way better than Reddit, even before spez fucked things up.
Yeah I think a lot of people were skeptical if Reddit would actually follow through initially… I know I was. I thought they would back pedal, but realized shortly after Spez’s disastrous AMA that wasn’t gonna happen. Someone else mentioned Lemmy in a different thread and that’s how I first heard of it. After some research to learn about the fediverse and ActivityPub, badda-bing, badda-boom, I’m here and haven’t looked back.
/r/heat was a big loss for me. But /c/nba is actually nice, since everyone has been respectful. I avoided /r/nba since everyone was so hostile to each other and it contributed so much to me hating most fanbases.
Same, a little bit of added qol to Memmy as well as some content on some of the more niche communities I used to frequent and Reddit will be solely used for searching obscure problems in the future if even that.
I think a big help will be creating a streamlined sign-up process in the apps themselves. Menus to pick a server and create an account. Maybe tell the user which servers are biggest/ask if they wanna browse servers by specific content leanings. That way it’s not intimidating. I’m a tech guy and even I was a bit perplexed in the beginning and that will keep anyone with a non-technical background away: we tech nerds forget that things not “just working” isn’t a feature in the eyes of a majority of people. (For better or for worse.)
I have been using Kbin exclusively while waiting for the Artemis app to be released but I decided to Memmy for Lemmy to see what the hype was all about. Well I’m loving Memmy, it does exactly what you discussed. The app makes it super easy choose an instance and create an account. Does the app need some work? Yes but it’s leaps and bounds better than browsing through a mobile web browser.
Yeah I spent 2 weeks on Jerboa unable to post, comment, subscribed etc because the instance I joined was not yet a login option on the app. Still have that issue with every other app.
You can tell the devs are working hard on these apps though. It’s a race to get a polished app released before people lose interest in leaving reddit.
Indeed. I’ve seen the rate of app updates pick up recently, and I feel it’s noticeably smoother than a couple weeks ago. Great effort is being done and I’m grateful towards the devs for that.
Just in case you don’t already know: On most apps you can type in your instance instead of selecting one from the drop down menu. Im on a small instance too and it took me a week or so to figure it out last month lol
I look forward to talking about my first few weeks on Lemmy in years to come: “Back then I had to use an app that was in alpha and wait ten minutes to load a page full of bean memes! And then we got hacked!”
It's way past this point now. Had reddit done this back when the shutdowns were first planned that would be one thing, but at this point they've demonstrated they can't be trusted, they don't care about their users or mods, and they're only interested in anything they think will increase the their profit margins for the IPO. If you aren't an investment firm they don't give a single shit about you past whatever damage you might do to their IPO plans.
I've already moved on from Reddit. I've deleted all of my content and unsubbed from about half of everything I cared about. My feed is completely pruned and even then only about a quarter of it is OC not posted by bots or click bait titles.
Plex just recently reopened it's sub for another vote to reopen or go restricted and the amount of support to stay open is sickening. Everyone left has become so dependant on the platform that they can't see leaving it, which is exactly what Reddit was hoping for with this.
The internet got a lot worse under the reign of big search and its associated ad platforms.
Milled content has taken over. Low-quality and corrupt product reviews, fake instructions, and repeated canned text.
It's become less possible to get good information using search engines generally. Reddit was creating a stopgap because of its vote system and, frankly, its lack of available ad revenue for business meant that the information on it was more likely to be accurate than the information on the general internet.
One way or another this was about to go away. The good information that was available on Reddit was provided by volunteers who were not valued by the C-suite of that site. What was valuable was ad revenue, and pro-business content Farm bullshit is more valuable than good information to advertisers.
Thinking the reddit blackout is hurting search is the wrong take. Modern search algorithms and the SEO services that naturally follow them are hurting the free flow of information. Particularly useful information. And as AI chatbots become more powerful, we stand at serious risk of drowning in an ocean of bullshit and not being able to use the internet for any useful research.
To say nothing of content theft. The number of websites that just take the StackOverflow data exports and put them all on a shallow clone of the site in hopes of gaming Google is utterly ridiculous. I guess OpenAI has killed that now, in the worst possible way.
Lol. I mean, yeah, lol. Stack Overflow was always pretentious and a massive pain to actually use yourself. Now they're throwing a tantrum and disabling archiving exports? Zero pity. I bet the archive is effectively zero maintenance and costs them nothing to run.
EDIT: It gets worse the more I read. "Profit off the work of the community", what, you're the ones doing that. The "community" wants their answers out in the world, they just want to help people, SO is the one using it to make money. This is enraging.
EDIT2: The very final comment is a link to a duplicate. Very SO.
Fortunately, Chatgpt was trained on data sets from Reddit and other sources, so not all knowledge is lost. But totally feel the pain, I'm going to miss reddit (still haven't been back since the blackout - I blocked reddit at the router level to prevent accessing it accidentally out of habit)
If our hope is on ChatGPT and its friends, we are doomed.
In a couple of years there will be entire webpages automatically generated with content no human has reviewed. Not even read. And they will be so optimized for SEO, they will be the first results on most search engines.
And the content of those webpages will be crappy. Elegantly written, yes, perfect English. No grammatical errors. But it will tell you the recipe of gazpacho is done with hot spicy tomato sauce and that the acne you have can be cured by sleeping naked under the moon the second Thursday of the month.
I already miss the human-generated internet and we are still here!
There are paid search engines like Kagi and at this point I block domains that seem to be SEO blog spam. Kagi makes money off subscriptions, not ads, and they let you block whichever domains you want. That's the future, a federated internet where people pay to support the sites they want directly.
Yes but actually not. Federated, yes. Everyone contributing, yes. Paid for access... that's a path I prefer not to walk into. Payment should be voluntary.
I am gladly paying for my mastodon account and I will gladly pay for my kbin account when/if recurrent payments are possible. But I understand I am a privileged one. 20€ a year for me is easy at this point of my life. But not everyone earns money. Not everyone lives in a country where 20€ a year is small change. 10 years ago I wouldn't have been able to pay that easily.
A world in which we federate and each of us contribute and pay, if we can, the amount we can, that makes sense to me.
A world in which you can't access the good parts of the internet unless you pay for it, that's scary to me.
I mean, yes. Yes it can. If you have access to GPT4 it absolutely can make those recipes and tell you things that reddit used to. Heck, it's even got bing search now, I think people are underestimating what it's capable of. You can also work alongside with Claude+. It's the new original stuff that I worry about. New technologies, developments, and ideas that are completely novel will definitely become lost and i'm not sure what that will mean for the future.
Reddit has outlived it's usefulness. So much of the content is pushed by advertisers that it has become meaningless. Even in places like HomeImprovement you would see "questions" that were really prompts for an ad in the first comment: "This product is exactly what you are looking for!"
I loved the way you wrote this for some reason. Very clear and well-informed
Probably like most of us, I use reddit as my search for quite literally almost any question or research I do - and this was done multiple times a day
I honestly have no idea what I'm going to do to find information. I absolutely LOVED reading real people's real and genuine with anything. Tech, cooking, intermittent fasting, specific games, guides, custom android roms, careers, I could go on forever. And I would look across dozens of threads and even more comments, and then smash them together in my head to come up with the most likely accurate answer to my problem. And let's not forget when dbags or misinformation is dowvoted to oblivion!
As a techie, I can't even count on my hands how many times I have found someone random person having the same completely random and specific PC issue that I had - and they showed what they tried, what didn't work, then I look in comments and find 6 different valid potential solutions. It was absolutely glorious and so useful
I hope that somehow, something even greater emerges from all of this that fills in this "need". I don't think reddit will ever be the same, and now I'd feel dirty using it to find information even if most of it will probably still be there
EDIT: wanted to add that I'm also worried because reddit was so easy to use and user friendly (at least in the ways we modified it lol) which made it really easy for people to join and add to the mass amount of information on the platform. I'm concerned that kbin/lemmy won't work as a true replacement because they don't seem nearly as straightforward
Trying to Google for anything specific nowadays is almost completely useless, if you cannot find it in the first page of results the rest is usually trash. Googling with Reddit was one of the last ways to get actual insight and/or reviews on things. Corporations are crippling the usability of the internet entirely for the sake of profit.
I have been shouting from mountains to my friends about reddit's usefulness on finding actually valid and specific information. They never believed me and basically thought I was just wrongfully and overly obsessive.. I have no idea how they find information in such an efficient manner. They're like, I just use google.
I definitely moved to DuckDuckGo the moment I realized Google was ignoring the text I was writing on the search box. I was searching for a bug fix in my code for weeks, something very niche and difficult to find. When I finally got the answer and moved on to the following bug, Google kept mixing my previous bug with the new one, making it impossible to find the right answer. It got so used to me being focused on that niche thing, it couldn't believe I moved past it.
DuckDuckGo forced me to write "smart queries" again, giving context on the search text. But it gave me the results I needed. Not the ones Google googlexplained me I needed.
Reddit's UX for the first few years was hugely worse than kbin's is right now, in my opinion. It took a while for it to get nice, and the lessons learned on it are freely available to successors.
All the fediverse stuff might seem like a speedbump, but for the average user, none of it actually matters.
That's a good point. I wasn't part of reddit when it first came out, so I suppose I'm spoiled by it's current UX and UI, which is where it's at after being polished for over 15 years
Now for the dreadful waiting game! It will be neat to be part of kbin while it grows though
I absolutely refuse to buy a car where the only thing in the dash is a single big touchscreen. This is a really cheap and lazy way to design a car. It’s not fancy or futuristic. It’s turning an engineering problem into a cheap software problem. Any feature that controls some aspect of the physical car such as AC, headlights, turn signal, seat placement, side mirrors, etc… should all be physical buttons with some tactile feedback. The only thing that is acceptable as a screen is information display and controlling entertainment.
If electric vehicles 10 years from now don’t re-engineer buttons, dials and knobs into their cars I am just going to walk 30 miles every day.
The touchscreens are cheaper, that's the main reason they are becoming common. Honda has already realized they are an issue, and has been going back to physical buttons.
The horrifying part is that often physical buttons are mere affectations now anyway, and instead everything is still controlled by the central computer system. Like I was comparing Hondas to Subarus and while the latter had physical buttons where the former had touchscreens, whenever the computer is busy then e.g. the volume knob still gets entirely ignored. I still like it better, but it is not really better, instead it just "looks different".
As far as I'm concerned the man point is tactile feedback. I don't want to have to take my eyes off the road to switch between screens and find the right menu item to turn on the AC while I'm driving.
Not only do I not want to sort through menus, I don’t like the thought of every other driver in the other lane having to sort through menus if they get too hot or cold.
In that case then, yes Subaru has you covered. They do seem extremely well-designed to me. Like my mother was saying do not get a car with a light-colored interior b/c it can distract you as the sun shines on it while driving, and my brother was saying do not get a car with a dark-colored one b/c dropped items can get lost extremely easily, but Subarus have the best of both worlds, with light coloration down below and dark coloration up above. There are SO many aspects like that, which I very much appreciate! It is all plastic, so like not a Tesla or anything like that (which I consider very much a good thing imho), but the overall look & feel & design aspects to it are very well-made. Like the tactile knobs.
I can just use the volume knob on the steering wheel with my thumb to control volume or mute music, but if I’m parked and want to listen to a specific song it’s fine that I go poking around on the touchscreen to do that.
I can use the ‘mode’ button to switch to the radio or Spotify, but if I want to set up Spotify with my account details I need to use the touchscreen.
The touchscreen lets you easily expose rarely used, complicated functions. Things you need to do while driving need to be buttons.
Mazda has had it figured out in my opinion for years with their dial setup. Most of the important stuff is on the wheel itself, but you can control the entire center console with an easy scroll dial and like 4 buttons surrounding it, and all the traditional stuff has physical buttons right near it. Their cars have other drawbacks, but the interior design just makes sense to me.
The Mazda system was a complete deal breaker for me. You have to locate the hotspot on the screen, then fiddle with the knob to get it over the right spot, then select. Way more aggravating than a touch screen.
If you use Carplay or Android Auto, it reverts to a touch screen anyway. The whole system was a muddle.
Lexus and Audi have both dropped their puck controllers due to customer feedback.
Driven a few Mazda 3's and the wheel / button placement is great. Lots of things within fingers reach. One thing I'm not keen on is the sports mode button, that should totally be on the steering wheel, where right now it's on the middle dashboard.
I guess the idea is you want people to think about switching this mode on/off so it disincentives them doing it all the time maybe?
Another bump for Mazda. Their recent engines are phenomenal as well. Really well made naturally aspirated 4 cylinder with a normal 6 speed automatic. They drive fantastic and feel very well engineered. No more cheap ford parts. Best bang for your buck right now in my opinion.
1- Their threats aren't actually working, and they don't have enough quality mods to replace the ones they've overthrown (as evidenced by subs where the mod teams were nuked remaining frozen)
2- PR move to pretend like they're listening and reduce anger.
Seriously, what is the point of this attempt AFTER they've nuked so many mods and users?
Edit: I feel like this comment is right on the money
wasure_boshi
better yet, they will listen but only in "small groups" of people "they pick" as to curate the the overall mod "response" and then will claim that all mods across all communities will share this same slated opinion.
Has to be #1, or I think they would have replaced the mods on /r/pics by now. They’ve silently removed mods from other big subs without much, if any justification already, so them not doing it in this case makes me think something is wrong.
I agree. This is a) a PR move and b) part of their “divide and conquer” strategy: They’ll keep on schmoozing the mods who go along with Reddit’s bullshit and keep on kicking out mods who aren’t.
I actually deleted my main account on Reddit a few months back because the toxicity in any comment I posted started to weigh me down (even in the r/Australia sub, it became clear that a lot of people there likely weren't Australian).
I've noticed things have degraded even more there in the past week, and in the Aussie subs, most of them have gone fully toxic.
Idk, I acknowledge it must be a pain in the ass to know whether you can call someone the equivalent of "dude" or not, but I feel like that one's fair. When you recognize something utterly mundane is a high insult in someone else's culture, you kinda stop using it towards them unless you intend the insult.
I sure as shit wouldn't just drop the honorifics with a middle eastern/asian stranger or walk around their house in street shoes just because doing so is unremarkable where I'm from.
I love reading and writing, replying and interacting. The quality of discourse around here has been excellent so far, the right kind of people have migrated here.
Fully granted that there are many topics in which I'd love to see more activity, but the space is young. Neither Rome nor Reddit were built in a day.
Also, a way to keep track of conversations, an unobtrusive notification and a direct link to the spot in any given thread.
I dunno about you, but I rather like it here - it's a bit more old school on KBin and reminds me of my youth. Maybe this will be the renaissance of the BBS and forum, but now federated across the internet in beautiful FOSS and distributed networks.
Exactly it's very much reminds me of old school forums sites but with interconnectivity. I am very much loving Kbin and it's made me much more social then I was on Reddit.
I'm pleasantly surprised by how much I'm liking Kbin and the fediverse idea. I thought I'd hate it. It's not... bad. And there is a lot of promise. I think it helps a TON that there are a bunch of us here all at once. It needed a moment like this to take off.
I'm really enjoying Kbin as well. Ironically the people left on reddit are saying they're enjoying reddit more too with the blackout, as they're seeing smaller subreddits they used to not see, and the large subs filled with spam and reposts are mostly dark.
I think the lesson here is that reddit got too big for quality, which is ultimately what the admins want. Quantity over quality, more users to sell advertising too, and more users to sell their analytics.
I like the smaller conversation lately. I realized I became more of a lurker the last few years because the conversation either got too unwieldy. If I try to make a comment, it just got lost in the sea. Or the threads were filled with same old tired jokes or messaging. I like the older style forum because I felt anyone can participate in a discussion.
Hard to believe people are liking it more. I noticed that before the maintenance yesterday morning, there seemed to be a decent amount of mourning, frustration and annoyance. After the maintenance, everyone seemed cheery, happy and tend to ignore the situation. Also comments seemed to have surged after the maintenance, every post on /r/all had in the thousands of comments when normally you'd see 1k+ comments once or twice every 10 posts.
I just grabbed 2 random dates. You can see there's like 4 at most threads with over 1k comments. Crazy how every page today and yesterday on r/all has several 5k+ comments and only 3 posts total below 1k in the first 25 posts. Some of those subreddits aren't particularly interesting enough to form a discussion yet it's got a few thousand comments.
I'm personally sensing larger AI bot activity. Like some sort of counter measure to make reddit continue to look like it's being used more than it is?
I was there for the migration from kbin to reddit and I'm here for the migration from reddit to kbin. There's no need to prove anything to spez. Reddit is already in the past.
Exactly. The 48 hour black out won't change a thing. The only way anything could change is if the black out is indefinite. Personally, I feel like wiping my account and moving on is the best course of action.
Yeah, Reddit was fun but it's time to move on. The one thing that Reddit and Twitter have proven is that the entire community could just disappear at any time if the management thinks they could improve their margin, and 97% of both of them were just tired in-jokes anyway.
I'm planning to begin to wipe my old account once the blackout ends, starting phase two of our protest, the dismantling of Reddit. They should not be allowed to profit from our content in perpetuity. I will delete what I've contributed.
Yup, same here. Planning on popping in tomorrow to see where things stand. After that I plan on finding new places for more of the niche/hobby subs I follow. Then it's time to wipe it clean.
Reddit relies on moderators to mod the subs free of charge. Mods use API powered bots to help make life easier.
If mods are dumb enough to open up after two days and continue moderating subs, they're going to learn real hard on July 1st how much more difficult it is to manage a sub without all those automod bots.
We'll see what happens next month when the brown stuff hits the fan.
yeah, if they can keep the protest up they will win. They may already have. As soon as users take the trouble to create new accounts on things like Kbin, the less likely they'll retreat back to reddit. Honestly for being in its infancy I think this has been a good platform.
Yeah, even if they reverse course and offer a public apology I'll probably end up primarily staying here. Yeah it's a smaller community, but sometimes that's for the best.
A lot of us have just been waiting for the next big thing to come along, the quality there just gets worse and worse, the large amount of users seems to be only thing reddit has going for it. I'd be thrilled if the Fediverse took off, I'd never go back to the other site again.
This is where I am with it. The API thing is bad, but I'm not necessarily up in arms about that on its own. I've been increasingly dissatisfied with Reddit for a while now and looking for somewhere else to go. The stars just happened to align to nudge me over the line, and now that I'm out I'm not going back.
I'm looking forward to the next thing, and I hope a decentralized thing like this is what takes hold. I'm also hoping the artificial hive-mind thing a la bots and such can be staved off.
I've been frustrated by the quality on Reddit for awhile. Every sub degrades as time goes on. Users just upvote anything they like regardless of whether it fits the purpose of the sub. Bots run rampant in even the smallest of subs.
personally never created account on reddit because the default user interface was so bad BUT giving kbin a try because comments are encouraged. A desperately missing feature on mastodon.
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