Constantly hearing ”got tired of Mastodon’s technicalities, Bluesky is simple and amazing”.
How we could design Mastodon to be more simple and have less technical-feel to it? UI is one thing, but that will not cut it all. I have probably said this before, but I am starting to believe no matter what we do we can’t ”win”. The narrative might need to change. 🤷♂️
@rolle It's not a technical issue, it's a social one. The problem isn't that Mastodon is inherently more complicated to use, it's that the people who use Mastodon love to talk up the amazement of it. The fact that it's federated, multi server, etc etc etc.
The issue is that the people who are "tired of Mastodon's technicalities" are looking for a replacement Twitter, full stop. Then they run into nerds who babble non-stop about how interesting and complex (not in a bad way, but you know how techgeeks get) the workings of Masto is and blah blah blah. They come away with the feeling that this is a complicated tool when all they wanted was a squeaky hammer.
Offering an alternative UI will help, but really we need to change the social narrative that Mastodon is complicated.
@phpfox@rolle Yes! The thing where Mastodon is complicated is that is used as a tool for social interaction. Interaction is difficult and sometimes complicated. Commercial platforms aren’t interested in human interaction, only in ‘sending’ messages to generate attention to sell for ad space. It’s post-and-forget for a lot of people, whilst here responses and discussion are expected as interaction is a two way street. That’s hard if you’re not used to it.
@tarmoamer@rolle Many advocate that for example officials like ministries and the police should use this kind open, decentralised systems for their announcements and discussions with the public, instead of closed proprietary systems, which is common now. So that would be one kind of win, and something that the tech would support nicely, as the official organisations could control their own instances.
@rolle it may not tilt the balance, but given how so many people end up on the main instance, I’m surprised it doesn’t come with built in styles for people to change the look and feel. There are some great UI options out there, yours included; it’s an easy win giving users power to personalize so they develop a better connection and enjoy their first experiences.
Yes, a lot of us will find other clients or try other instances with more options eventually, but that’s too much friction.
@rolle I think a lot of people have been using centralised social media platforms for a long time so they might find federated platforms a barrier of entry.
@rolle I am seeing comparisons with Bluesky all the time, but it's not an open system. It's invitation only.
Who gets invited?
Influencers.
Journalists.
Techies.
People who know how this stuff works.
Mastodon is open to all and has a full range of abilities trying to use it.
Let the world use Bluesky then see what people think.
@missingbrighton@rolle Sadly I also noticed that there are attempts by white male developers to walk around them. For example, by inspecting the social graph.
So that harassers will have an easier way to annoy those people who have tried to remove them from their social sphere as a consequence.
@rolle The more this issue comes up, the more I think it's not possible to "win". And that's ok?
There doesn't need to be one platform where everyone lives. Some people can use Bluesky and some can use Cohost and some can use Mastodon, and the ambitious can use several.
I don't mean it in the Masto-elitist sense of "if they can't handle the tech, good, we don't need those people." Just acknowledging that different people like different things and plurality of social experiences is all right!
@rolle a search for “bluesky needs” on Bluesky gives you a stream of mostly already-implemented Mastodon features that Bluesky lacks.
sure, polish is one of the reasons that makes Bluesky more appealing to some, but it seems ppl are willing to sacrifice features for the fleeting dopamine and social capital they get from ‘invite-only’ platforms and for not feeling like they’re starting over because their friends are already there. that’s what made Clubhouse so popular before it died and, sans the invite aspect, that’s what’s led to Threads current success—it duplicated an existing social graph.
for Mastodon to be seen as a viable alternative, it would need to either compromise on principles (never a good move) by making some aspect exclusive or by finding a solution to helping people reconnect—even if they’re on other instances.
their solution has been to start everyone on the same server (a familiar experience) then let people move organically from there. it’s not a bad move, but there needs to be another layer of beacons or importing social graphs so people can be notified when friends join, i think.
@rolle answering as a noob mastodon user and a non tech savvy person.
The thing I find confusing is the servers, the very heart of the fediverse. They're not easy to find, is there an index? If for example I wanted to join an art-centered server, how would I go about it?
For the moment, I'm following some hashtags and half-noticing what server the most people in that hashtag are on. It's not very intuitive nor immediate.
@rolle also unclear is the benefit in joing the one or another server. I know they all have their rules, but getting to know them requires gosh READING! Hardly anyone reads the terms and conditions of online services before accepting them, I figure the same applies to joining servers.
@I_am_elena@rolle Unless there is a good reason, I recommend to everyone who asks me that they join mastodon.social. That instance is maintained by Eugen Rochko, the creator and chief developer of Mastodon. It tends to be pretty stable and is updated regularly.
The new join process automatically recommends a server from a short list that includes that one.
You can always move to another more specialized server later (eg. if you really only want to talk about one subject and little else.)
From the perspective of a server admin like myself, I want to have ground rules. They protect both the user and the admin. I also require a reason for joining. These are in place because otherwise my server would be filled with users that might have different motives than mine. Once a national socialist joined and I decided that's it, I don't want any more burden than I have already.
People are lazy to read, that's for sure. But I think this is where Mastodon excels, the rules make this space much safer.
@rolle@kevinjardine that's the one big reason why it might never be a huge success. Reading is out of fashion, and any info which is not conveyed in a 30 seconds TikTok is going to get lost for (apparently) the bigger part of the population.
I'm not complaining, I'm all for a niche social network filled with readers. 😋
@I_am_elena@rolle The great thing about Mastodon now is that most people will automatically join big instances with reasonable rules. Even Twitter used to have rules.
@rolle Some enterprising organization should vertically integrate a Mastodon instance, a single app that you can set up an account, join the instance, and participate in the #Fediverse. No fuss, no muss.
@rolle bridging to Bluesky might be the best way to go. There are already technical bridges, but if one sets up a way to follow Bluesky-accounts from Mastodon instances (and the option to post there once they open for federation), it wouldn't matter that much if Bluesky or Mastodon "wins".
@rolle What I found the more sad here is the purpose : federate organisation.
It only makes me feel like I'm missing so much of what's happening in other instances.
I'd like I could follow easily other instances feed, discover new interesting people....
I just feel stucked instead of enjoying the high number of Mastodon users.
@rolle you have to wonder how much of that explanation is repeated because they don’t have a good explanation or haven’t collected their thoughts on it but aren’t confident enough to say so (which is disappointing but understandably human.)
it’s like when years ago people said “i use android because it’s open and ios isn’t” but they didn’t know what it meant. they want a snappy, intelligent answer to give.
@rolle For me the only technical hurdle has been when end up seeing some post on the web, via a link somewhere, and then can’t follow or like because it’s not on the instance I use. I guess client apps fix this. But could the web fronts somehow be more fluent with this too?
Maybe not an early problem, for non techies who try this out, but something that irritated me in early usage.
@rolle@dev_m A stereotype repeated in jest, but I think even the notable leftists give up on this platform. Realistically, Mastodon is more for the geeks and freaks. Maybe some crisis will create a space here for political disagreement (Israel/Palestine almost has) but it’s not a place where populists of any stripe can readily find or build their following.
@reiver@rolle@dev_m I started using it shortly before they added verification and hosting photos. I thought it might become more like Patreon than it did. I didn’t think ads were the way to go… thought they would monetize by integrating an e-commerce platform for users with something to sell.
@rolle i reckon if you arent following anyone (ie, you are a new user) it should load you into Explore
That should fix the whole “theres no convenient algorithm” as well as “i cant find anyone to follow”
@leadegroot Discoverability is only a fraction about this, ”too hard” and ”too technical” are so strong arguments for many that they even prevent them from trying out more.
@rolle@breadandcircuses “too hard” i think means “stuff wasnt just in front of me”. I think this concept fixes that :)
“Too technical”, well, anything new appears difficult at first - we can only hope to give them really good ui and allow time and familiarity to fix it
@randulo@rolle@leadegroot George isn't exactly a Twitter migrant. He's still pretty active over on Twitter, maybe more than here. Which is fine but a lot of people spin it like he shunned Twitter in favor of Mastodon which is not the case.
@rolle@randulo@leadegroot Also a lot of re-tweets and replys. More than just cross posting. He also puts the same effort in here. I'd say he's just active across a lot of platforms.
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