Even on mobile I like the look of kbin more, but functionality is better for lemmy. I think it will change in future, kbin is just too young. In any case for mobile I have to see an app in a long term.
Those are actually really valid reasons and presumably why I'm liking kbin as well. Design and feel are really big factors for user adaption, thanks for sharing your experience.
It's also surprising because there are just fewer prominent kbin-based websites. Lemmy has lemmy.ml, lemmy.one, lemmy.world, and sh.itjust.works. And Beehaw, I guess, but they specifically throttle their growth.
kbin has kbin.social, and then a bunch of instances that are just way, way lower profile.
I mean, it's so surprising that we should probably question it a little bit.
Kbins documentation for hosting is a bit of a mess and leaves a lot to be desired where Lemmy is much more turnkey for someone looking to setup an instance.
Anecdotally, from looking at Mastodon, it seems like people there are hyping kbin (and fedia.io) more than lemmy... that could just be the people I happen to be following, though.
You cannot use mastodon from kbin or lemmy. I think you might be referencing the fact that from kbin you can create Note posts, which appear on mastodon, pleroma, calckey, etc as a normal (tweet-like) post.
That's not why mastodon users are hyping kbin over lemmy. There are rumors going around that the lemmy developers are bad people and a lot of mastodon users now consider lemmy blacklisted because of that
There seems to be a lot of pass-through and mutual membership, so it isn't really that surprising. People who didn't have experience in the Fediverse before Rexxit came to Lemmy because it's what everybody was talking about, then branched out from there to explore the options.
Even setting aside user stats, kbin.social threads still manage to rise pretty high when sorted by Active/Hot from lemmy instances viewing all threads/channels/magazines. I created accounts on several instances, and we'll see which one wins out on how I actually want to use these sites/services, but for the most part there's a ton of overlap between what regular users are seeing from each service.
This is really the first piece in the media that I've seen acknowledge that, for the protesters, it's no longer so much about the app and it's all about Reddit's ugly and dismissive response.
It's like going to your boss and saying 'There's a problem with the working conditions and we need to make a change' only to have your boss say 'This isn't an issue and I'm not going to fix anything and you're just wanting something for nothing, like you always do... quit being such a pussy or I'll fire you'. The complaint might have started out about working conditions but as soon as your boss goes into asshole mode, it's going to be about what he said to your face. And that's why at this point it ain't going to matter what Reddit says about how this is about an app, and why it won't matter how many 'official spokespeople' it runs up the flagpole to pretend that Spez wasn't patronizing the folks who generate all his content for free and making naked threats to the mods who keep the fora running for free.
There'll be a lot of people who will end up being too disinterested or callow to react to all this, and that's their right. For others, Reddit was kinda a huge chunk of their day and their social existence and they don't want to walk away from it, and that's their right too. I don't think this is going to be the end of Reddit so much as I think it will be seen as the beginning of the end. But there can be no question that the real problem isn't an app anymore, it's the scrawny-ass CEO and his weak man's idea of how a tough man leads. Because threatening the mods isn't a show of strength, it's insecure weakness. Steve Huffman just doesn't have the chops to be in his current role, let alone in charge of damage control from the protests.
The only good thing about any of this is the unintentional irony.
There is a lot of people suffering with a cost living crisis in the world right now. And he just put a massive target on his back. For a lot it won't be about the issue anymore. It will be the case of having the ability to poke one of the haves in the eye. I believe the best anecdote for this is crabs in a bucket. People want him dragged back down with the little people.
I think this is an underrated point. There's a lot of money stress out there right now. There's a lot of people with jobs who have anxiety that they could lose those jobs. There's a lot of Redditors who have come to see Reddit as an online home and a community that values them. All that anger and fear and stress is just looking for an outlet. And here comes the smug CEO pressing all three of those buttons at once?
And I'll take your point one step further. Pretend it's three months down the road, this has largely all run its course, a bunch of people have left for good, and you are one of Reddit's primary investors. Your analysts tell you that you have lost 40% of your investment due to this debacle and that unless Reddit takes some steps RIGHT NOW to win its user base back and show the mods they're listened to and valued again, you're likely to lose more. These people will happily sacrifice Spez in a cocaine heartbeat under such conditions. A little public pillorying while they blame Spez for everything, a little faux contrition from the board and a promise to do better, the appointment of a CEO with some charisma and people skills who will lead some foo foo initiative to look into user complaints and do a little grandstanding -- this is the playbook.
That really is an elephant in the room with capitalism these days. There is zero protection for the individual and money is king. Although all of what you surmising is down to who owns the controlling influence. Provided he keeps enough shares for himself to retain the final say, then he is safe from that one. I personally think he has done enough to have lost the credibility of the platform now. He will most likely have to postpone the floatation plan.
Agreed. Lots of discussion is still naturally around API pricing etc., but more fundamental is the fact that all of that user/mod-provided community is seen solely as an asset for the company to sell. The actual humans be damned.
it’s the scrawny-ass CEO
CEO aside, I reckon you could replace spez with any other exec chosen by the board and eventually this sort of business decision would be made. The mix of private ownership and profit motive suffices, I think.
100% this final point. It’s not spez, it’s the motivation of all companies geared towards investors and markets. They don’t even care what they actually end up producing, as long as it gives the appearance of profitability and growth. Spez is a largely replaceable part in this equation.
I agree that on one level Huffman is a fungible element serving predictable motivations of moneyed investors. The idea that one should leverage every last cent one can for the maximization of shareholder value, this is certainly common thinking in the business world and will always have its champions among the richest and most powerful sources of investment. So in this regard I think I am in solid agreement with the two of you.
I disagree because I believe Huffman's antics in the press have been extremely counterproductive, much more so than what you could expect from a typical CEO of a billion dollar company. If he had just taken the line from the beginning that goes 'look, we're ad driven, we need to become profitable, and we can no longer afford to let third parties give Redditors an ad free experience or subsidize AI training at no cost' -- this would not have exactly been popular, but it would have gone much better than they did with the hack job on Selig and the smarmy doubletalk about working with people who want to work with them. Or his patronizing dismissal of the protests as 'noise' that 'will pass', or his garbage about landed gentry and people wanting things for free, or the insecure threats about how mods will be removed and replaced if they don't open their subs back up, or how he plans to emulate what Musk has done at Twitter. I don't think that's something you get no matter who's in his place. I think most other people in his position would not have fired quite so many rounds through their own foot and in so doing, damaged Reddit quite so much. So in this regard I think Spez is an atypical case, I think he has royally screwed up, and that his idiosyncrasies aren't doing his employers any favors at all.
Yeah, even if somehow the API changes were financially the right move, I cannot see how stuff like his comments in support of Musk helped one bit. I haven't seen any news coverage that puts reddit in a positive light either. At best, it's been neutral.
The CEO chooses the strategy for making money, though. I think the strategy Spez chose is a losing strategy and that reddit would have made more money by not alienating their users to the point of a bunch of people migrating and another bunch purposefully trying to sabotage reddit's profit.
That's not entirely correct. For-profit companies thrive when they serve their customers well. Since Reddit's for-profit and yet its users are not its customers, the result is bad for users. But that doesn't mean companies with better business models are equally bad. The beautiful thing about a free market is that competition drives bad companies out of business.
That might be true if we lived in a world where companies behaved like that. But given that they now answer to shareholders and the admitted priority above all others is to squeeze every possible cent out for those shareholders in the short term and that ignore long-term health, I don't think the principal really applies any longer. Public companies or companies courting IPOs are literally not permitted to behave in the way you describe.
Also the free market is a complete myth. The market is constantly manipulated and distorted by those controlling the capital via methods such as monopoly, monopsony, trusts and vastly disproportionate "influence" over law makers and potential regulatory power.
We agree on the damage caused by short revenue reporting requirements for public companies. Just remember that private companies have share-holders too. The fresh fruit street vendor is a tiny business with one or more share-holders, competing against massive supermarkets.
About free markets being a myth, yes well there's no true Scotsman. The guiding ideals of the concept of a free market are still in effect, despite all of the valid exceptions you listed. Fact is, Reddit can still be driven out of business.
When the news first broke I was like aw darn I guess I gotta give up RIF. But I thought about it for a bit and just realized it would be so terrible to go back to the reddit app, because I have actually tried to migrate there before.
Then the entire reason + response emerged which totally pushed me off the platform for good.
This was my thinking too. I was sad, maybe I’d try out the official app and see if it would work for me. Then I saw how absolutely deranged and unprofessional spez was and I turned to Lemmy and haven’t turned back.
Yeah, I figured that I would still check Reddit on my laptop, maybe try to suffer through the mobile app. And now I have decided to quit Reddit entirely. It’s no longer about the API and Apollo for me. Why should I stay on a platform that shows contempt for me?
I barely even used mobile, so I just used the official mobile app when I did. Uninstalled now. Still peek in because there's some good resources there that simply do not exist conveniently elsewhere (and sometimes habit or checking out malicious compliance by various subreddits), but barely posting/engaging and turned ad block back on.
Amen. I figured I'd just give up on mobile reddit. Browse more on my laptop. And then the AMA happened. Fuck that guy. What a pompous asshat. If he feels that comfortable talking to and about people like that on the very platform I don't even wanna know how he treats people in person.
Probably because of the endorsement of Lemmy by subreddits, which has been far greater than the endorsement of Kbin. Lemmy's also just been around far longer than Kbin. Those server issues that Kbin encountered during the whole explosion of users also likely slowed down growth a bit. Even with Lemmy's bot problem I think these have made it grow faster anyway.
I also think some of the growth of Lemmy is the ability to get the project to a functioning stance. The start of Kbin still seems a little rocky, but getting better.
It iis easier to sign up for kbin I think because kbin lets you sign up with google or facebook. I did gmail google sign up because I like being lazy.
Kbin is slightly more confusing (they named everything a little weird), so if you do make a kbin.social account lmk or ask many questions about how to do stuff. It’s easy once I knew stuff like magazine = subreddit
I have the same problem on mobile (both through browser and Memmy), but not on my desktop. Really annoying. Been using Reddit since 2009. Feels really odd to switch things up, but lemmy.world, kbin and squabbles seems like potentially good alternatives. I wonder which one will end up being "the one".
I agree. I’m no marathon kbin contributor, but I like it here a lot and I would be happier if this thread was about what we can do to support kbin as an instance.
If mbin where a placeholder for doing this (as in if certain permissions aren’t available yet) then I’d be buoyed up by OP’s thread.
Anyhoo, viva la kbin, viva la federation!
When Kbin isn’t working I check out Lemmy but it just feels too cluttered. If I didn’t need to get paid I’d help Ernest out but, ya know, capitalism 🤷♂️
Many of the lemmy instances have two or more front-ends available. I find https://photon.lemmy.world/ with the dark them and "List" post style looks pretty nice. There's at least one that just simply replicates old reddit.
Maybe you should think of non-awful words to use, instead.
Fag is a beautiful word which accurately describes me and 4/3 of my friends.
I'm all for kicking people who weaponize hate speech off of platforms but restricting the language marginalized groups can use to refer to themselves is contrary to the ends hardcoded banned word lists would seem to've been implemented to engender.
It isn't even one instance making that decision as I understand it—it's hardcoded into Lemmy (as opposed to kbin or whatever other options may exist).
I understand the idea of reclaiming a slur. But general audiences might not recognize what you're saying for what it is. And nothing stops a bad actor from making the same claims and using the terms in bad faith, hence why it's generally easier from all sides to use different verbiage.
Do y'all not like pertinent-to-the-conversation questions about hardcoded word bans on some of these platforms or are the downvotes on the above post due to issues y'all take with fags reclaiming and self-referring using anti-them slurs?
For me, you saying "hey, can I use slurs over there yet? Specifically, ___" is a bit like the dudebros that yell out "Equal rights, equal fights!" as they pretend to punch a woman ... like ... why the fuck did your mind go there immediately ... it's a bit disconcerting.
Had you said something like "Do they still have the hardcoded blocked words, still? I used to laugh whenever someone from England tried to mention cigarettes and it gets [REMOVED]! Haven't seen that in a while though" I don't think you'd have gotten the downvotes.
Just my opinion, others may have had different reasons to dislike your comment.
ETA: Your other comment wasn't showing before. You identify as the word and want to be able to use it and not have it be labeled as hate speech when it's against yourself ... So ... I'll update my "had you said" to "Hey, are they still redacting fag over there? We're trying to take that word back into the community (similar to how queer has largely been taken back) and it's real fucking hard when it's [REMOVED]!" instead.
First off, good on you keeping an eye out for that shit. You're right dudebros remain on some fuckshit and the genuous me to who you're speaking would thank you for calling out a hypothetical me who was being disengenuous should that person have existed.
That said, no. this is not just my being edgy. Edge for edge's sake is rule of beasts, or some such to some effect I've heard.
Nor either is this about regionalisms for cigarettes or bwyd Cymreig (though I have commiserated with others over that elsewhere.)
This is about will half the magazines I moderate be able to be recreated on whatever kbin alternative is being proffered.
This is about my inability to hold discussions about "Faggot As A Gender Identity". The impossibility of recommending people check out the artistic output of non-binary label founders out Chicago [and I dorecommend that EP, but please note some of the lyrics are sexually explicit and make listening choices accordingly]. This is about preventing me from citing Larrybob's work in Holy Titclamps or to ruminating on C. J. Pascoe's theses regarding masculinity and compulsive heterosexuality.
This is about keeping me from propagating the comforting words of Jonny McGovern and "let[ting] the little fags know" someone who's roped at this Gay Rodeo a'fore has their little faggot backs.
The issue isn't just the flatening broadcast bleeps do that render "Gosh damn it" indistinguishable from "motherfucker". So far as I am aware some of the above links will not resolve due to hardcoded wordlists modifying the contents of the links.
Maybe it doesn't work that way but I wouldn't know because nobody ever answers when—as here—I ask about the hardcoded wordlist I understand to be included in base Lemmy software. They just—as here—clutch their pearls.
Dudebros und Douches of the world will always try and find ways to hurt me. In spaces where the classics render [REMOVED] [assuming they don't just go homoglyphic and use " |=/-(_+ "] they will call me degenerate, pervert, groomer, or 'unfren', and the softer the language they're forced to contort to to mark me as Other the more increase the chances someone may be swayed to buy in their bad faith.
Wordlists don't keep people like me safe. They keep people like me from connecting with our community or discussing our condition, but the people who would do it using "fag" are not prevented from expressing the idea that I am icky and deserve to die. They just "just ask questions" promote discriminatory policies, and "protect the kids".
I don't even mind if a space decides they want their own list because, "We don't talk like that here." Sounds like the kind of thing Beehaw might do and good on 'em if they did. My issue has always been with the list being as-far-as-anyone-will-explain-to-me hardcoded into all software which is based off lemmy.
A person who has a legitimate reason to say a word to a person with a legitimate claim to want to hear it ("Just finished moving in; the number of Fags with colours thrown up in their windows around here really makes me feels safe.<3") can't engage in that communication because one of them is using software that lets the guy who thinks wikipedia is unfair to alternative cancer treatments make those sorts of decisions for them.
Active moderation and community rejection of oppression keep people safe and those can (and should) be implemented with or without context agnostic word filters, and since I have usecases for without, it is a question I seek answers to when someone suggests leaving Kbin (which suits me fine for now) for elsewhere.
As to your suggestion I turn my feet a'point, speak softly, start my sentences with, "Hey..." and explain ("...we're trying to...") The Gay Agenda...
That feels like begging for my own language, and I reject an obligation to do that.
I needed to know if "Fag" rendered "Fag", I asked my point directly.
The fact people continued to downvote after learning the use was intracommunal shows it not to be in reaction to mistaken bad faith. Faggots being bold and visible has always pissed folks off but it's why you have free condoms.
Does anybody happen to have contact with Ernest outside of Kbin? It's a little concerning that his last update over a month ago was that he was going in for a medical procedure and that he'd only be gone for a few days. I hope he's doing alright.
Solution: I had somehow subscribed to the DOMAIN kbin.social by mistake. I didn’t even know this was possible. This took a long time figuring out because domain subscriptions can only be seen from the settings page, not from the public facing profile page.
That makes sense now. Glad you figured it out. The question is how you did that to begin with, mainly for reference to avoid others from doing it, unless they want that. But it sort of nullifies the idea of subscriptions. At least if I or other readers of this see someone ever pop up with a similar problem we know where to point them to look.
Fully agreed, and thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I don't remember how I did it. I think I wanted to subscribe to the magazin kbin and ended up subscribing to the whole domain, too (the timing fits).
While the mistake is certainly on my part, from a usability point of view it would have helped if the two separate subscription lists profile>subscriptions (some features) and settings>subscriptions (all features) would be consolidated into one single list.
I think the "-porn" suffix is part of the internet vernacular now. We'll probably be calling porn pornporn at some point. We're stuck with it just like we're stuck with "-gate"
Yeah, I always thought that was just a wider internet thing. Like an instagram hashtag or something. At least it's better than "food terrorism" which is what they call it in japanese.
I’ve been feeling it too, and have been on the fence about jumping ship. My block list is growing so fast it’s just a touch obscene. So many pill pushers junk websites and… random and science are hit so hard it’s frustrating.
I know the admin here recently had a minor surgery. I'm hoping for some kind of solution for when normal life stuff keeps him away. Like a few people just in charge of getting rid of spammers and worse people.
I will be registering elsewhere to see if the experience is any better. I really like the overall direction and design of kbin, but things have been dragging on updates and improvements.
For example, my settings are identical as far as I can tell between desktop and mobile, but my mobile feed is generally hitting day old on the first page while desktop has several pages of more recent content. I walked through the settings side by side and they appear identical.
But I haven't reported it or searched to see if someone else has because of the absence making the effort to document and report less urgent.
I'll keep my account of course and keep an eye out if it picks back up because do like the browser based interface and the combo of lemmy and mastodon in a single feed.
I only use mobile so idk if it's different on pc, but the little image icon underneath the username will open the posted image underneath the post for you
Thank you, but it does not work for links, and it open image in the same page. On mobile most of the times I want image in full screen mode, where I can zoom, rotate phone, and then go back to the same place in thread list.
/kbin
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