The mods there have decided to allow underage looking content, skirting close to CP. Unless we want such disgusting stuff on our feed, I think we should defederate from that instance.
characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED because as an instance the votes decided that banning all of it was destructive, and differentiating between them can be impossible.
So, it seems like an anti-witch hunting measure, which has ironically caused a massive witch hunt for the instance as a whole. These guys don't seem to in any way support pedophilia (thank God).
That still might actually be illegal in some jurisdictions. The wording of the British law on it bans "pseudo photographs" of people who are underage, and the definition used would probably cover that.
What an odd way to initially phrase it. Saying "underage-looking nsfw" is such an underhanded wording that it makes me feel like they were trying to stir up a shitstorm against their own userbase. The followup is way better "we're allowing weebs, no loli, some of you might still think it looks underage but we're leaving it at the mods' discretion". But the damage is already done.
Another community having the possibility of posting something you don’t approve of when nothing is actually illegal, nobody is actually getting hurt, and you could just have blocked that community (or even just offending users) for yourself in the first place is just a really dumb reason to force the whole instance to defederate from it.
It’s up to Ernest what happens, but I’m not on board for unnecessary censorship of cartoons, of all things. I honestly worry for you.
As long as kbin domain blocking tools work, I can choose to block their content - and I will, because 1) it's pretty fucking vile 2) it might be illegal. But I don't need it to be defederated, I'm happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).
I wish we could remove the The "Random Post" / "Random Thread" boxes from the front page. Those seem to display NSFW material quite often - I don't really have any need for "random content" especially since I can't control the source.
Click on the domain (between brackets) and block it like you’ll block a magazine or a user.
You can also display a domain by copying it after your.instance/d/the_domain
edit: Warning : when you'll click on the domain, it will display its content that may be NSFW
EDIT: this doesn't block the instance, but only the domain. new tool coming soon, confirmed by the main dev:
domain blocking existed long before federation. It serves as a way to block sources like youtube.com, spotify.com. Blocking instances will be a separate option in the user profile soon. I will submit a pull request.
But I don't need it to be defederated, I'm happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).
I'm sorry but this is asinine. We're not talking about blocking too many posts about Taylor Swift, we're talking about new users of kbin getting fed illegal child porn in their feed.
This is not about CSAM though. It’s about specific fetish (which isn’t illegal globally as far as I know)
ernest needs to worry about the legality of the server and his users holistically.
I need to worry about the content I’m browsing. Ernest can’t worry or know about local laws in every country. Hence, I need to be able to block domains that I deem unsuitable.
If ernest decides he needs to defederate to keep his users safe, then that’s fine by me, it’s his call. But I want to be able to moderate my own content (tools exist, but seem a bit buggy https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/issues/118)
I think the larger point is that you can still block domains you don't want to see, but in this particular case defederation should happen. Both things can co-exist
Absolutely. If admins see the need to defederate, then go for it. I'm not going to object or leave because of it.
I just simply said, I personally don't have need to defederate - if - the blocking tools work.
I think we should keep the decision on the users what they want to see or don't want to, as long as its legal - similar to the piracy magazines or others.
Maybe block it by default, but allow users to opt-in / remove the block?
By the way:
You can see all threads from an instance by using the following URL on Kbin(not on Lemmy):
If it "might be illegal" than there actually might be a legal responsibility to defederate. Federation is not links to content, it's mirrors of content, and anything you're seeing while browsing kbin.social is being hosted here.
If it "might be illegal" than there actually might be a legal responsibility to defederate.
Absolutely, I never said otherwise (I hope?)
But that's up to server admins - I don't even know where the servers are hosted right now. I have no idea what applies to them. I'd like to believe they are acting in good faith and following their local legislation.
What I meant with "might be illegal" is laws are different. Iceland and Iran have very different views on illegal content. And it might be that the content that is illegal in Iran, isn't actually illegal in where ever the servers are hosted.
We all have to make sure we follow the laws of the country we live in.
So we need tools to handle those situations (like the situation in this thread)
For some reason, people from reddit would rather ban EVERYONE from accessing content, rather than just hitting the very-easy-to-use block button, that will take care of all of their woes while not forcing their opinion on everyone else.
Loli is fucking gross, and the people who enjoy it are gross, but the block button is right there.
Sounds like an existential risk to the server to federate with them unless they tighten things up then. @ernest is beholden to both the laws of where his server is hosted and where he lives, which I believe are Germany and Poland. If he violates either, there goes the instance and/or him.
if the instance is beholden to german laws it might be better to move to a new one before this gets too large. otherwise it'll suffer the same fate as traditional social media. no idea what the laws in poland are...
Certainly. The instance must abide by the law of the country it’s hosted in. And we users must abide by the laws of our respective countries.
I’ll let ernest and instance mods to worry about the legality of the instance, but I’d like to be able to to control the content that ends up in my browser - domain blocking is a hammer, going forward it would also be nice to get keyword blocking and other tools.
Close to? There are jurisdictions where that is straight-up illegal. In those jurisdictions, anyone who so much as loads a page containing such a post is guilty of a sex offense, because the uncensored image is in their browser cache and therefore in their possession.
So yes, if they're allowing that content, then they need to be defederated with extreme prejudice.
Defed should be a last resort nuclear option. If this kind of activity isn’t overflowing over into our instance, I don’t see the problem, just block/filter. Now if this stuff flows into our feeds, grab the axe.
Question from a new user, to block it do i actually have to click into it or is there another way? I've read all the comments and don't need clarification on anything else (except maybe if Ernest decided to defederate already); I definitely want to block it.
I have taken the executive decision to turn federation off for a similar reason.
I was recommended a vile post on the sidebar from m/random which I definitely never want to see the likes of again. I did report it but since it was from another server I don't really know where that goes.
I'm not going to turn federation back on again until I find a way to prevent it. Perhaps we should start a blacklist?
You can blacklist sites you don't want to see.
Go to https://kbin.social/d/<the instance domain name you want to block>
For example: https://kbin.social/d/sh.itjust.works
On the right side-bar, in the Domain box, you'll see this you'll see this
Click on the block symbol and you will not see content from that domain again.
Thank you and I appreciate the write up but I had actually already blacklisted a few domains.
Unfortunately that did not prevent the post from appearing in m/random because it was from a domain that I had not already blacklisted.
I simply do not want to have to act reactively once I have already been exposed to the vile content. At that point my experience is already ruined whether I block it afterwards or not.
Another reasonable approach might be to block m/random which I might consider doing if I am tempted to enable federation again, but for now I'm just going to play it safe and stick to kbin.social.
As much as I enjoy the idea of an adult community, it has to be adult in both idea and implementation. Allowing depictions of underage people (especially in the age of AI) is plain stupid. I’m blocking lemmynsfw and suggest you all do the same.
Are you someone who believes rape is okay because of how a woman is dressed? Because "she was asking for it dressed like that"?
Because that's what you sound like.
Edit: the person I was responding to has edited out the "you wanted this" from their comment which is what I was responding to. They were effectively suggesting that people wanting old Reddit wanted child porn. Fucking disgusting.
There is a good case here to defederate every instance by default and only federate based on a white list.
There are criminals in the fediverse obviously and we should split from them immediately. Don't forget that their content is copied to the servers of Ernest automatically.
Again, Beehaw defederated 380 instances and it's not just because they disagree with their political stance, but mostly because of this kind of horrible content. Which will come from another new instance, and another, etc, etc. Which means that we need to update Ernest regularly to protect his servers. Or make the default setting as defederated.
Bee has has a couple years’ worth of experience with this. I’ve seen a couple posts from people using independent instances asking if they can copy Beehaw’s list somehow. (Minus Lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works of course, because they won’t have the same overload problem.)
if this is indeed the case, then this is really the only valid reason to defederate. if it's literally illegal to federate, then it's understandable what must be done. otherwise? no.
technically dbzer0 doesn't break any laws, and neither does lemmynsfw lmfao. people crying "it's illegal" are just wrong. and if you want to go the illegal route, then look at how dprk bans self-hosting, or how the middle east bans lgbt and atheist topics. should we defederate with any instance that has an lgbt or atheist group, due to those being illegal in the middle east?
There's like 3 different users with anime pfp going to bat for loli all over the different instances and it's definitely annoying. Like nobody gives a shit that technically this or that. Most people don't want to see it.
For real, I've been trying to learn Japanese on and off, love the country, like lot of its media (albeit not much anime) and I'm absolutely desperate to avoid being associated with those guys.
Most people who aren't nonces recognise fairly instinctively that a sexual image of someone who appears to be a ten year old girl is a pretty noncey thing to both produce and look at, and that finding some level of sexual attraction to someone who looks like a ten year old is pretty noncey. But you know, weebs gonna weeb.
For sure m8. I imagine people like that probably don't get outside much so they don't realize how much distress their 'preferences' actually causes to your average person.
If something is truly harmful it should be illegal. and if it is illegal, it's grounds to defederate. if something is not illegal and there's no need to make it illegal, then it's fine.
actual child porn is something that causes harm, and thus should be illegal, and thus grounds for defederation.
loli/shota are not child porn. these are words that apply to adults. if loli/shota content OF ADULTS is indeed banned in poland, and kbin is in poland and subject to those laws, then it's understandable that defederation has to occur.
Something tells me though, that adult loli/shota content isn't actually banned in poland. anti loli idiots have been trying to declare it's cp for years now and they're just wrong.
[Polish penal code] Article 202 § 4b penalizes the production, dissemination, presentation, storage or possession of pornographic content depicting the created or processed image of a minor under the age of 18 participating in a sexual activity.
idiots will look at obviously mature anime characters and then cry at the canonical age being 15. but in the same breath cry about characters who are canonically adults merely for looking young/youthful. it's hypocritical and idiotic.
I think it's usually not too much of a legal concern, but it's also not uncommon for people to draw lewds of characters from shows that are canonically underage (see: Prisma Ilya, who is 10/11 in that spinoff series, although "18" in other Fate series). That would certainly be illegal.
But either way, it definitely creeps people out, and it's usually best to avoid doing things that make people want to stay away from you like that.
But I'm only talking about what's best for lemmynsfw and kbin. I don't personally think loli/shota porn is particularly dangerous for children (and, if anything, potentially gives those people a non-harmful constructive outlet) but I also don't get to choose which pearls most people decide to clutch.
The place where you live is less relevant than the place where kbin lives. The servers are bound by the law of the country where they exist. If something on kbin violates Iranian law, no big deal. If something on kbin violates Polish law, big deal. If it violates US law but not Polish law, that's only a big deal if you as a user are US based.
I can't say I know too much about it, but I was pretty sure shota was almost entirely dependent on one of the characters being in grade school or early middle school?
"Loli" can be ambiguous, but I think here it's pretty clear it's meant to refer to drawn characters with bodies typical of around the age of 10-13.
I don't quite know where doujinshi of characters like Betty from Re:Zero would fall, since she's established as quite old but also childlike in appearance and behavior.
but I was pretty sure shota was almost entirely dependent on one of the characters being in grade school or early middle school?
nope. loli/shota don't refer to age.
"Loli" can be ambiguous, but I think here it's pretty clear it's meant to refer to drawn characters with bodies typical of around the age of 10-13.
incorrect, some loli characters can have physically mature adult bodies.
yes, some loli characters can appear childlike, these are banned from lemmynsfw. some loli characters can appear as adults or ambiguously adults, these are allowed on lemmynsfw.
You keep saying that Loli doesn't refer to age but that word itself is derived from "Lolita" which is an "erotic" novel about a middle aged professor being obsessed with a 12-year old child and kidnapping and sexually abusing her. Although from the looks of it, loli content often circumvent child porn laws by using loopholes and giving bullshit explanations like it is just a 100-year old in a child-like body, the overall innuendo of such content seem to be nothing more than sexualising children. Things like that shouldn't be given a platform here.
Ernest is Polish, and the server is in Germany. Which, for what it's worth, is another reason why any Nazi shit also needs to to be blocked at the server level, too.
Yes. that's the main reason I did not opened an account on lemmy or their instances (I've been searching a reddit alternative way before the API debacle happened)
lol why even bother with a federated service if you wanna defederate from everyone and have particular strict moderation in a singular style? just go join a regular site at that point?
alternatively you can start your own instance if you feel the existing ones aren't federating in the way you'd like.
I did not found a regular reddit alternative. (Well, yes, I found one, tildes, but the owner requires people beg for invitations via mail, and I'm not going to do that)
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