So you know the Lemmy instance Lemmy.world? Well, there is another instance called hexbear… Which is full of hardcore, Stalinist communist. And every user of every other instance hates them
Hate is a strong word. People are just fucking annoyed by them since they constantly act like a 4Chan Troll brigades to trigger the “Liberals” and make everything political. They swarmed every instance that was federated with them and pushed hard their “Murcia/the West/Ukraine = bad and China/Russia = good” agenda and attacked people with different opinions.
There’s nothing inherently wrong with Marxism though (not that you said there was, I just get the impression some people are calling them socialists as if it’s inherently an evil thing), they’re entitled to their opinions on an alternative to capitalism, it doesn’t make them bad or weird people.
I gather from what I’ve read here that people mostly don’t get along with them because they are awful, terrible people (and honestly may not even be proper Marxists but maybe just posers, using it as a perfunctory label, idk).
I’d gladly be friends with a Marxist, but friends with an authoritarian, or a xenophobe, etc? Absolutely not. Regardless of their other political or economic opinions.
I’m an anarchist myself, so marxists are my brothers and sisters. So far, I’ve only seen displays of great inclusiveness from them (apart from telling me to fuck off, lol). However there’s a lot of different types over on hexbear, some of them definitely being angry edgy teenagers. Still, definitely not a xenophobic bunch. I feel the general sentiment isn’t warranted.
Similar experience. Great experiences until saying something that gets misconstrued due to lack of context and pitchforks come out. Then, some continue positive interactions and mods step in to curb unwarranted hostility. Still, despite getting singed a bit, it’s overall been incredibly inclusive.
Why do people always put labels on them as if that’s the reason they are idiots. It’s not. There just a bunch of obnoxious trolls that have made it their mission to annoy other instances.
Fearful that a high-level national hero might be killed, Soviet officials banned Gagarin from participating in further spaceflights. After completing training at the Zhukovsky Air Force Engineering Academy in February 1968, he was again allowed to fly regular aircraft. However, Gagarin died five weeks later, when the MiG-15 that he was piloting with flight instructor Vladimir Seryogin crashed near the town of Kirzhach
Instance is hexbear.net, check it out for yourself, doesn’t work in browser for me without an account but it does work in liftoff without one for some reason.
It is weird that a lot of commenters here want to tell you what they are but don’t say how to find this information by yourself.
Then they might find out the “they’re all just tankies!” line is a lie, there’s shitty people on all instances, just so happens this one leans very left beyond neo liberalism and therefore it’s bad!
Throw in that they all totally support Putin and Mao and don’t really support LGBT! And you’ve got most normies nodding along with defederating
It’s a lemmy instance full of edge lords who are pro-totiltarian communism. The bulk of them think Mao and Stalin were good. Deny any atrocities committed by USSR/China. Also, for some reason tend to be super pro Russia. Due to NATO being on the opposite side they support Russia and call Ukrainian/NATO nations Nazis.
Think they’re way overhated, yes some of the users can troll a bit too much but they’re generally fine and I appreciate that they help stomp out fascist, racist, and anti-trans rhetoric on Lemmy.
I believe trans refers to gender assigned at birth, so unless someone detransitions or time travels to change their birth gender I don’t think fully transitioning can make you not trans.
Trans people continuing to call themselves trans after transitioning is an entirely different topic.
My point is that I accept trans people.
Someone wanting to call themselves trans after transitioning, in no way, justifies calling me a bigot. That is the most braindead way to try and influence change in the world.
Hexadytes are cancer. They’re cancer here, they were cancer on /r/chapostraphouse.
I don’t support messages like that but I’ve seen similar messages from racists and fascists from other instances too, does that mean every instance where a small portion of the users DM fucked up shit should be defederated?
Not great, but nowhere near the same level of problem in the west where most of us are commenting from right now, so your whataboutism is irrelevant. Wanna try again?
It’s not. The Chinese government is an abusive autocracy that doesn’t respect the “rights” of its people and answers to nothing and no one other than Xi and profits and power. Those three things are king.
Marxists and fascists are two sides of the same coin. They may have somewhat different end goals, but they’re alike in having zero regard for the democratic will of the people. May every Hexbear troll be accursed.
Authoritarian, yes, fascist, no. We need the term fascist at the moment to call out actual fascists, diluting it by using it label people who aren't fascists but are also problematic plays directly into the misinformation the fascists thrive on
Exactly, I’m getting sick to death of the overuse of the terms fascism and nazism because they’re being used to describe everyone with a totalitarian bent. Yes, the GOP have fascistic tendencies, so it’s apt, but the real operative word to use in pretty much all of these cases is authoritarianism. And whether they’re [actual] fascists or communists, authoritarians are reprehensible. The Nazis were irredeemable but—and I say this as a socialist—so were the Soviets.
I honestly have no idea what they stand for. Their posts are so confusing and non coherent. I’m sure a lot of it is because sarcasm doesn’t work with text unless you have context. But without context, all it comes across as is a bunch of trolls who just love to hate
They are a tossup of ccp communists, hard left leninists and general anti westerners. They constantly bully people to remind them that they are smarter than you and they are eager to showcase this. They post screenshots of comments they want to target on their main page and links so they can brigade. If you even bother interacting, they will spam you with the intent of getting you to peer into their carefully chosen pieces of information to steer you toward communism. They are a nuisance and i have learned that if you can easily bait them into saying awful things.
Their whole stance is bizarre. It would be like if I believed every country should be democratic, but if any non-democratic foreigner asked me about it I said, “well I’m not going to even talk to you until you’ve read every bit of democratic theory, and even if you do, I’m not going to admit or discuss any criticism of democracy. Also, you are evil for just being born in your evil country.” They can’t possibly expect to convert anyone that way.
They’re a left wing group that uses a lot of sarcasm and trolling. It can be a bit off putting to most but a lot of it comes from the fact that most people don’t bother reading or looking beyond US propaganda so it can be frustrating talking to people like that. Personally I try to come at things a bit more openly but I can understand the frustration of dealing with people that don’t put in much effort to understand the nuances of geopolitical topics.
They openly brigade submissions and comments on other instances and harass anyone they don’t agree with. It’s not just some of the users it’s almost entirely the point of the community existing. Their comments are almost entirely sarcastic, and add nothing to conversation or even debate.
Feel free to show us one single instance where they “stamped out fascist, racist, [or] anti-trans rhetoric” because I don’t believe you.
Right, because they NEVER used pig shit balls that’s not a custom emoji picture on their insurance or anything, and they don’t have a “libsgetdunkedon” or equivalent community, where they say shit like that constantly. Riiiight.
But of course you have to deny reality to be on the mental level of a lemmygrad poster
https://lemmy.one/post/2831169Think I linked this right (haven’t tried since I switched to voyager). I can have more later this week if you want but it’s Labor Day weekend here and im drinking with family and you said literally one instance.
That’s a dead link bro edit :actually, what’s weird is the hyperlink is broken but the link itself seems to be working when you copy the text of your link.
I have seen so many thread saying how bad that instance is but every time I ask for links proving how bad they are I have never see anything worth the hate.
How about flooding a meta thread that’s not on their own instance to insult people who disagree with them?
Part of the drama with that incident included hexbear folks straight up saying “I thought the whole point of federating with other instances was so that we could dunk on liberals”. Majority of folks on hexbear did not see any issues with the behavior of their members on this post.
why didn’t you post the second one after the admin of hexbear and the admin of blahaj talked where they agreed hexbear wouldn’t do that in the second one.
Oh wow, there’s more hexbear comments than blahaj comments. Almost every blahaj comment has like 3-4 responses. I read a comment of someone saying that the thread looks wildly different if you see it from an instance that defederated them, and it’s so sad that it is completely different.
I haven’t really had any issues with them. That said, literally the thread above this one in all top hour has a bunch of people hoping Biden gets COVID and dies…so there is that.
For sure, I’m not advocating blocking or defederating at all. But you asked for examples of hexbear being unsavory and I provided one. That is all. It would be more of an accumulation instead of one singular instance that might push some over the edge.
No you may not have a link. Linking to bad things makes a person bad. Providing evidence of bad things makes a person bad. Anything other than belief makes you bad. In fact I think you must be one of the bad people, because evidence of righteous claims supports the idea that righteous claims require evidence, which is bad.
I went to a link below and honestly, as another commenter succinctly summarized as “whiny butthurt Nazis” was a giant “freedom” murica style. Seriously, my eyes hurt, I left.
Not to mention unironic Russia shilling. When I called out a mod he responded with “oh yeah well America worked with nazis.”
Cool. That’s bad too. They’re contrarian to the point of parody. Literally any wrong by China Russia or north Korea is justified by “well America did the same thing” as if leftists as a whole aren’t already on board with that thing being bad, but it still doesn’t excuse that bad thing now.
Just throwing out the word tankie is pretty much meaningless at this point. It might as well be “woke”. If you have specific issues explain that rather than just trying to shut down a conversation with a word. Some users might be a bit too sympathetic too China but I’ve typically seen them more come from a reasonable non US propaganda viewpoint and have been open to actual criticism about China. Some of it can seem like whataboutism but to be fair a lot of the complaints I see about China are shit the US does as well so it can be a fair point.
In terms of the "tankie problem", it's mostly supporting Russian aggression in Ukraine pretty much solely to "own the libs" and "get back at the evil NATO". Most "tankies", a term that has become effectively meaningless from overuse, are more accurately political contrarians who care less about things getting better for more people and more about Owning The Libs.
There's honestly a good chunk of them on most fediverse instances just due to the general community vibe, with Hexbear having more than, say, lemmy.world, but less than lemmygrad. Hexbear stands out moreso to being the successor to Chapo Trap House, a community notorious for being so utterly vile to interact with that nobody wants anything to do with them.
No, but they're absolutely the lesser of two evils here. I'm generally not sure how people justify a war of territorial expansion to stroke the ego of a geriatric dictator in Ukraine, then turn around and get angry about a war of territorial expansion to stroke the ego of a geriatric dictator in, say, Afghanistan.
It's hypocrisy. You dronestrike a children's hospital in Kabul and everyone acknowledges the evil of it, but Russia dronestrikes a children's hospital in Ukraine and suddenly it's justified as "retaliating against western imperialism". Sure, and Iran had nukes Uncle Sam needed to find, too.
Lesser of two evils? Please. How old do you think I am, ten? I’m not at all sure they’re the lesser of two evils, but then I’m pretty critical of things like imf, World Bank, allying with Saudi Arabia “ccp bad” garbage. Humans are animals and I’m here to learn and the western narrative is rather sanitized so no thanks.
You are a political contrarian if you think invading a sovereign nation is justified by "the western narrative is rather sanitized". You don't care about people's lives or welfare, you care about Being Special and Being Better Than Other People.
To be blunt, you disgust me with your callous disregard for the lives of innocents solely to be cool and edgy on the internet.
Nah, you’re just trying to bully me to agree with you, with zero sense of irony in a thread ostensibly about the same behavior; unless that’s not why you’re upset with that behavior, per se.
I don't particularly care if you agree with me or not. What I find interesting is that what motivates your political positions are effectively identical to, say, an American christofascist. Disdain for the mainstream media, performative cynicism, conspiratorial thinking. If it goes counter to The Mainstream, it must be good. The idea that people may be harmed by your position doesn't matter to you at all. People """are animals""", after all, and they matter to you only as props in your self-aggrandizing personal narrative.
I'm genuinely not sure how you're intending to sell your position of "Empathy is for losers, the only thing that matters is Being Right On The Internet" as anything other than repulsive, or how you're not demonstrating why people dislike hexbear users (i.e. spitting on the concept of basic human empathy due to political contrarianism).
What? You just made a bunch of knee-jerk accusations of which nothing I said could reasonably lead you to conclude.
Take every claim you made and prove it like you went to high school English classes because frankly, you just made up claims attacking me, personally, because I dared say I want to hear what someone else has to say and form my own opinions. And accused me of being “just like the Christofascist” with zero sense of irony.
Also, please let me know when humans aren’t in the animal kingdom. How old are you? Ten?
For me, I don’t support what Russia is doing. I just don’t want to further empower the US military industrial complex. Every couple of years there needs to be a new evil enemy for us to be scared of so that the money can keep flowing into weapons and so that we have excuses to extract value out of other countries in conflict. It’s obvious we don’t do this for humanitarian reasons or we wouldn’t be allies with countries like Saudi Arabia (or see the entire history of US intervention since WWII). Whether Russia wins or loses the war, people in Ukraine aren’t winning, they’re just seeing which imperialists are going to be exploiting them for the near future.
In the abstract I don’t oppose assisting countries against imperialist aggression with military force. But playing into US warmongering doesn’t really do that and in the process is further making the world a worse place.
A good deed done for the wrong reasons is still a good deed. The reason why NATO is the lesser of two evils in this sense is that between two brutal authoritarian regimes, NATO is significantly more hands-off and more open to being manipulated by civilian interest than the more brutally right-wing Russian regime. One of these exploitative imperialists will probably let you get gay married, the other one will kill you for it. The US military industrial complex will pick a target regardless. It may as well be a target that ends up counteracting Russian imperialism; I'd rather have those bullets in Russian corpses than, say, whatever country Saudi Arabia has decided needs bullying this week.
Anyways, the core of the issue is that it takes a LOT of hand-wringing and "b-but both sides" to justify active warfare to sit back and let an imperial power shit hellfire down civilians' throats. Anyone who actively supports pulling out of Ukraine is, bluntly, just kind of an idiot.
Contrarian? Hardly. I’m just aware that Western Europe and the USA have their own agendas, engage in propagandizing their own citizens, to greater or lesser extent. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous. Notice how lacked the behavior, not the person, without knowing more? Try out sometime.
I appreciate you actually explaining your position behind the use of the word. I have a lot of issues with NATO and some with Ukraine but I agree that Russia is the aggressor in this situation. I have noticed that some of their users are pro-Russia but most of what I’ve seen is more anti-NATO which I can understand. As I said in another comment I definitely see some of the users troll more than I agree with and I personally prefer to deal with things in a different manner but overall I’m fine with being federated with them.
Lol, that’s because the mods of said threads already had to delete all the bullshit they posted once they “accidentally found this on all” and then descent on it like locusts (but they’re totally not brigading!!!1!)
It's not everyone on the internet's responsibility to change their opinion to match yours. It is incredibly narrow minded to assume that someone would just do "research" and end with the same opinion of a group of people as you.
If you see someone express an opinion, and you don't know why, you ask them, not go to other sources to find why.
Yeah, I'm sure you formed that opinion on a factual basis that you found through no help from what others posted or said. When I want to learn something, I do research on books and online media. When I want to understand someone's opinion, I ask them. If you don't know the difference between those two, your problems stem way earlier than "after school".
You sound like the closeted book nerd that doesn't understand public opinion. Like all the people on Twitter who once read something about "blacks are more violent than other races", and if you ask them why they think that, how many stats they read that confirm that, possibilities of other reasons for a study's conclusion, they respond with "It’s not the rest of the internet’s responsibility to do your research for you"- sound familiar?
If you want to accuse this "intensely human" person of lying, just do it. But claiming that anyone who hasn't seen an example within thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? Only been around for 2 months, but millions of site uses) of posts of users being "tankies" just needs to "research" is obtuse and moronic. If someone makes the claim, surely they have an example, and don't expect everyone who sees this meme to read thousands of messages before continuing on their journey through !memes.
Except you, of course, who has clearly learned after school not to rely on others, so you must have read all of the comments from various hexbear users yourself, and not taken that opinion from some other poster's list, right? You did waste all that time before suggesting others do the same for no reason, right?
You just have a very high tolerance for jackassery. You've seen plenty of evidence of hexbear hostility, i.e. the "dunk tank" that would justify not wanting to interact with hexbear users and have actively chosen to disregard it.
This is because you're kind of a jackass. Disregarding people engaging in good faith with "just trust me bro" is exactly the kind of thing people really hate hexbear users for. Not because of illegal activity or moral failing, but because they're assholes. While you may think this isn't worth de-federation, unfortunately moderators aren't some kind of legal authority, and if federating with hexbear means instance admins or community moderators need to put in triple the work to prune all the arguments and """shitposting""" hexbear users love, nobody is legally or morally required to put up with it.
It's legitimately that simple. Hexbear users are jerks and nobody wants to hang out with them, and that's enough to ban them from any given community or instance.
I’m also probably kind if a jackass, because hex bear doesn’t bother me. Would I appreciate a civil conversation to better understand their POV? Totally. Will that happen? No. So I just don’t interact. The fierce protection of LGBTQ communities is something I appreciate however.
As a bi guy who has spent decades fighting for my rights Im not sure that their “defense” is beneficial. If you are a fucking piece of shit to everyone you interact with you might be surprised that people don’t want your help.
Honestly, the pages of well thought out responses are reward enough, but all the sweet time yall waste typing is what really makes it worth my time (all 10 minutes of it).
Getting you folks a taste of what it’s like to share a space with you… well that bit is fucking priceless.
we think its funny that libs are mad at realizing the system is shit, so obviously we are the only ideology in existence besides democrat= a republican
Basically the whole Hexbear most upvoted consensus was that all US presidents deserve to be executed, the DNC and GOP are the same, but Trump at least is funny, kind of authentic, and triggers the libs.
Also lol that observer article aged like fucking milk. Clinton couldn’t have found a better way to self-destruct her chances at winning the election.
The real consensus seems to be that he should be hanged just like all the other presidents, and that they find him funny because he is not as subtle as past presidents at doing the evil stuff.
The point I have seen being driven through is that they don’t care to just mock people for their ideas and they really love to criticise without offering solutions besides violence and letting it all burn, which is a non-answer to most non-tankies, so there’s an impasse.
I just find it very funny that on one hand people say they offer no solutions but on the other hand people say they want to discuss it too much and it’s exhausting, they clearly have solutions which is Marxist-Leninism, that has been made abundantly clear over and over so how can one say they offer no solutions?
Marxist-Lenisnism is not really an answer since its not like you can change such a core design of a society overnight, and since they want it fast, their arguments tend to resolve into violence / letting it all burn (which tbh will also come with violence), and again for several people that’s a non answer since they don’t want violence, so there’s an impasse.
For me that answer is like cool it won’t happen while I’m alive so what’s the point, either you tell me about something practical that people living in the situation can relate and/or act on (without violence), or I’ll just answer with something like “cool, that’s nice” and not contribute more since suddenly we are talking about something that’s so radically overboard from the current society that it’s pointless for me, and the vibe I get is that I’m not alone.
Sure it’s not an answer for you but that doesn’t mean it’s right for you to incorrectly state they have no solutions.
I do find the Accelerationism that some on the far left push/advocate for to be a poor idea overall, I do think we need to slowly push people further left via things like social democracy and improving the lives of working class people via more social programs of that nature to be a better alternative, even though it will definitely take more time.
The problem is capitalism and the powers that be are constantly fighting against ANY progress on that front and are doing a damn good job of convincing people to fight against their own interests via various forms of propaganda.
On the other hand we’re having a revival of unions like I’ve never seen in our country before, so it’s not like there is no hope that things can improve, just the overall situation we find ourselves in makes it really easy for people to fall into more extreme views and apathy or anger about the system we’re currently living in. I think a Marxist/leninists/left viewpoint is miles above the fascist/nationalistic alternative
I want to reiterate what I wrote. I said that they propose no solution besides X, that doesn’t mean that they have no answer, but that their only answer is X. What I said is that their only answer is X and people find that answer problematic.
For context, I don’t live in the US and I vote for the left parties of my country, which work for social programs within the status quo, not for breaking the status quo. I get that what the US has is way more extreme, but this is a global forum and there’s people from countries where is not so bad. When the conversation is almost binary (you are the west or not, no middle point) and their context is not applicable to all, you get this kind of antagonism. And I get that everyone is not that way, I have had several positive and negative encounters with them, but people remember negative experiences more easily that positive ones.
A HUGE PORTION OF HEXBEAR IS TRANS. OVER HALF THE MODS ARE TRANS. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR THREE YEARS PRIOR TO FEDERATION. FAE, PEOPLE HAVE POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU BEFORE. PROBABLY MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.
We’ve never “pretended to support lgbt”, why would we? What would be the point of a load of alt right channers roleplaying as queer communists for years on an incredibly niche social media in the hope that eventually redditors would come to the site? And even supposing we did, and we were all just alt right types, if we’d spent years doing reading groups of queer theory together and kicking out transphobes and creating the most queer friendly space on lemmy just as an incredibly long extended bit then would the supposed communists we’re impersonating even take issue with that?
Like just use some critical thinking, at this point almost half of the sites users are trans and most of the rest are queer, most new users cite our radical opposition to queerphobia as their reason for joining, what evidence is there that we lie about being queer friendly? Like just check out !traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns or !anti_cishet_aktion or !transenby_liberation and tell me in good faith that all these people have been lying for years about being queer
Identiy politics is so silly. It’s possible for a black person to support systemic racism, it’s possible for a Jewish person to support Nazi’s, it’s possible for LGBTQ people to support anti-LGBTQ politicians. Case in point - Jessica Watkins.
“I am x-identity” is lazy, superficial, irrelevant.
I don’t think anyone is lying about their identity. I do fully expect that the trans men and women of Hexbear would throw their LGBTQ brothers and sisters in front of a firing squad if it meant a chance at a bloody revolution over the bourgeois.
But THEY DON’T SUPPORT THOSE THINGS! YOU’RE MAKING SHIT UP. THIS IS EASY TO SEE IF YOU GO LOOK AT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT FASCISTS AND TRANSPHOBES. YOU HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR AT LEAST A FUCKING WEEK NOW.
You have support for Trump and Russia in there, which is an unholy alliance stripping LGBTQ protections in law, funding transphobic and Neo-Naxi groups, and spreading fascist rhetoric online.
“support for Russia” — opposition to NATO is not support for Russia. This isn’t a fucking football game.
“support for Trump” — The other day I sent you a huge thread where they all fucking hate Trump and agree he is an odious fascist.
Hexbear does not support Trump. The consensus view on hexbear is that Trump is more dangerous domestically, but Biden is more dangerous internationally, and they are both monstrous people who are terrible for the planet. Many hexbears voted for biden as harm reduction but it barely felt like harm reduction, and when you look at the whole planet, maybe it wasn’t. Trump is a fascist but also an isolationist. Biden is not a fascist, although he does virtually nothing to combat the fascists, but he is also more likely to start wars, coups, or inflict austerity on the global south, which is something people should care about. 9 million people starve to death every fucking year and America has huge international influence to make that worse or better. America supported the fucking siege in Yemen. America destroyed Libya — and that was the fucking Obama administration. I saw a study that tallied it all up and concluded that America has caused the deaths of 4.5 million people in the middle east since 9/11. And for that matter, Biden’s not great domestically either! There’s been virtually no pushback from the Biden administration against any of the fascist bullshit happening in this country. Florida legalized kidnapping children for forced conversion therapy and Biden won’t even say the word trans.
support for Trump" — The other day I sent you a huge thread where they all fucking hate Trump and agree he is an odious fascist.
Lol, not really. We can dig it up and look at the highest rated posts again. Hexbear wants to execute him along with the rest of the US presidents, which is obviously just a fantasy. “All presidents are bad, both sides are the same, Trump is at least funny and kind of authentic and triggers the libs” was the overwhelming sentiment.
Trump is a fascist but also an isolationist.
Lol, no, he’s not an isolationist. He’s a globalist business man, and a wanna-be dictator imperialist, who is happy to be friends and allies with the other dictator imperialists of the world.
(Biden) is more likely to start wars
What? According to who? Are you just going to pretend the assassination of Qasem Soleimani didn’t happen under Trump?
Biden is very pro-Ukraine, which drives the pro-Russia people insane. I don’t know what else you could be talking about.
There’s been virtually no pushback from the Biden administration against any of the fascist bullshit happening in this country.
Trump rolled back LGBTQ rights and stacked SCOTUS with people to roll back women’s and LGBTQ rights, DeSantis leads the war on Trans people. It does NOT help LGBTQ causes to blame this on Biden. It does not help to say “well both sides are bad”. Fascists LOVE the “enlightened centrists” because it almost always benefits fascism.
Yeah, lets, instead of you cherry picking shit and distorting the intent behind it. Here’s the fucking thread. Holy shit, the consensus view is fucking exactly what I said it is.
As for thinking Trump is funny, the overwhelming view in Hexbear is extremely bleak. People struggle with depression and doomerism. They laugh to cope.
Here are hexbears talking about why they laugh at Trump
Yeah that’s exactly how I remember it. “All US presidents bad, at least Trump is funny”.
As for thinking Trump is funny, the overwhelming view in Hexbear is extremely bleak. People struggle with depression and doomerism. They laugh to cope.
Maybe this is a real intention that I’m misinterpreting. It looks a lot like edgy Heath Ledger joker “just wants to watch the world burn”, fine if the fascists are the ones to do it. I’m willing to consider it’s just misplaced doomerism.
if you think anyone on hexbear wants to watch the fucking world burn, you clearly have no fucking idea what any of these people think or believe or care about. I’m honestly struggling to even respond to this. It just shows complete ignorance, and then that you would go on and on for days slandering this community you know nothing about, with complete confidence, even after people contradict you and argue with you… I mean what the fuck do I say to someone who thinks a community whose entire set of political beliefs orients toward defending the poor and the marginalized from the monstrous psychopaths who rule this planet — wants to watch the fucking world burn? Please stop saying shit about hexbear when you do not know anything about these people.
I’ll take the L that I only have a week of exposure to Hexbear, and it might be the worst week, given that Hexbears were all excited to “dunk on the shitlibs” and actually doing real life helpful productive things for marginalized and oppressed groups took a back seat on the burner.
In my not-very-important opinion from my short exposure, y’all have completely lost the plot. You would say edgy shock factor things for an internet point circle jerk , even if you’re giving ammo to the right. I think you all would rather LARP being leftist revolutionaries, fantasize about executions, you like driving people away from leftism because it reinforces your identity of being the most left.
If you really wanted to protect the poor and marginalized, I think you all would take the clue and reevaluate if you really value making the world a better place, and what you’re doing to achieve that.
if you’re saying that being a too-online leftist is not really doing anything, hexbears are self-aware about that and riff on it pretty often. but plenty of hexbears are also involved in orgs, unionization efforts, and volunteer work. and the ones who aren’t are self-deprecating about it. this is where the “I will never log off!” riffs come from, they all know they should log off. that said, the community is also sort of a support group for people to share their stress about the world to other people who understand it and share a similar perspective. that’s the main purpose of the community, no one sees it as some “change the world by posting” platform. if they did, it wouldn’t make sense for them to stay defederated for three years.
Heard. You’ve successfully made the points for me to not give any more of my opinions on Hexbear to anyone who isn’t from Hexbear. I’ll stand down and give everyone the fair chance to make their own opinions.
I think having a space to destress is really important. If you’re fighting for rights for minorities in your local area and you need to shout “death to America” in a friendly space online, you earned it and you deserve it.
Please explain how wanting to see trump hung drawn and quartered for being a disgusting imperialist fascist is a pro Trump statement. Frankly if hexbear users could bring him back to live afterwards we’d happily want to see him brought back then hung, drawn and quartered a second time.
If you don’t want to see Trump hung, drawn and quartered you are more pro trump than hexbear is.
But also, “Identiy politics is so silly” is a massive fucking red flag, scratch a liberal and they start complaining about the woke mob
If you don’t want to see Trump hung, drawn and quartered you are more pro trump than hexbear is
I care about real life policy and results.
I don’t think living in a fantasy of fetish violence makes you left or a left ally.
“Identiy politics is so silly”
Let me frame it in a way helpful to your confirmation bias. Zelenskyy is Jewish, does this automatically mean in the Russia invasion of Ukraine that Russians are the Nazis and Ukrainians aren’t? Identity politics.
lmao, this you?
100% yes, and I have learned that thinking neopronouns are unnecessary and silly makes me a transphobe, and transphobes deserve the firing squad.
I have not heard exactly how many and which neopronouns I have to learn before I’ve hexbeared hard enough to not get the firing squad.
There’s a big difference between wanting trump to die and thinking that trump will actually be executed or suffer any real consequences for his crimes beyond a slap on the wrist and maybe some house arrest - of course Trump won’t face justice, like Bush, like Clinton, like Obama and like Biden he will only ever fall upwards and live comfortably for the rest of his life. Wanting awful people to face justice isn’t “living in fantasy land” it’s just being dissaffected with the reality that evil people will never face any kind of justice - I also want my country to be actually accepting of trans people and for the NHS to work as it should and for the police to not be institutionally racist, but I know it’s not going to happen.
And regarding the identity politics thing, I agree regarding liberal identity politics when Im talking with a materialist communist who’s criticising it from a left wing perspective but you’re not a communist, you’re a “”“liberal”“” criticising it from a right wing perspective because you’re mad that trans people are daring to criticise Biden and to call you a transphobe for being transphobic.
If your “allyship” that is entirely conditional on trans people being respectable and heteronormative enough for you to accept entirely consists of talking down to those trans people you do accept and telling them that they’re not allowed to criticise Biden too much or your fragile “allyship” will be retracted then it isn’t worth shit.
::: spoiler relevant MLK quote
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
Would I appreciate a civil conversation to better understand their POV? Totally. Will that happen? No.
People have actually had that conversation. You just have to seem curious and not too accusatory. Also — depending on how skeptical you come across — it might help to keep your questions specific so they don’t feel like they have to defend their entire perspective in one fell swoop, although some might be up for that.
They’re aware that their perspective tends to be vilified and poorly understood, which both makes them wary of people but also enthusiastic to respond when they find someone they think is actually interested in what they have to say. If I showed them your comment they’d probably be like “hell yeah, send him in.”
*I made a thread and I was going to link it to you if you wanted to ask questions, but I realized you’re defederated
I was called a bigot because I dared to say that a person finished transitioning is no longer trans.
Because they’re done. They’re a man or woman now, and apparently treating them as such means I’m a bigot.
This isn’t defense, this behavior actively makes things worse for trans people. This is the exact type of behavior conservatives want you to think of when they say “trans people bad”.
This is why, this statement means that you don’t view trans people who haven’t “finished transitioning” as their actual gender. This is a transphobic and pretty reductive understanding of how transition works (albeit one that some trans people hold themselves, usually transmeds). I won’t write an entire essay on why but here’s just a small bit to chew on: consider that a “finished transition” is very different from person to person and some people might never consider it finished. Some people only want to socially transition, others have to medicate for their entire lives, both could consider reaching their ideal state “finished” or they could consider it a continual work in progress.
Also,
This isn’t defense, this behavior actively makes things worse for trans people.
The idea that pointing out someone’s transphobia will somehow support the transphobes is laughable. If being called out is seriously enough to make someone stop supporting trans people then their support was conditional and only surface-level.
Staying civil, as you suggest, is what actually helps conservatives since it allows their views to go unchallenged when their views are bad and should be challenged. Part of this includes challenging people who may think they are supportive but harbour transphobic beliefs that they haven’t analysed fully. And these wrong beliefs can have actual harm. As a simple example, there are a lot of “allies” who say that trans people are their gender but not their sex, which is a belief that can harm trans people when brought into a medical context where our bodies are (if on HRT) closer to those of our actual gender than to our AGAB.
If you are not trans shut the fuck up right now about what is or isn’t good for trans people, trans people do not need a cis saviour to come in and tell us we’re being too unpalatable for liberals who will only support us as long as we don’t get too uppity
This whole thread is about the historical context around the summary execution of the romanovs. While the tzars absolutely needed to end, in the context of the 1910s and absolute monarchy, if the children didn't die there would have likely been civil war trying to reinstate the line into power.
Is a much better receipt. User doesn't understand the winnie the pooh reference, also doesn't understand the PRCs effort to stifle discussion about TSM and the pressure that firsthand witnesses are under.
even with this guy, I don't understand how a user being an idiot is worth defederating. If he's going into other threads and spouting the same nonsense, sure ban him. If many people are going into other unrelated threads and injecting that kind of misinformation into conversation, that's a pattern that makes defederating a consideration.
Is there this pattern, of other communities being disrupted in this way?
Yeah the communities dedicated to screenshotting posts in other instances are a really fucking odd thing I see show up routinely.
It has always appeared to me there is some kind of side squabble between various communities in the Fediverse against a couple instances in the Fediverse. I pretty much see two flavors: overly personal grudges or hypocritical trolling. Or I guess the swirl option for both, so three flavors.
It’s kind of nostalgic really, for the old days of forum flame wars.
Please include references to the context. If those users are spouting this crap on other instances and they do nothing about it defederating is a good option.
If they are having private shitbird conversations within their own community, block the communities on your instance.
It’s a bunch of woke lefties that want to tax billionaires and shove their gay agenda down my throat. They hate honest hard working landlords and CEOS and shill for the lazy poors.
snarky know-it-alls that believe that they possess the most advanced political analysis derived almost exclusively from parroting reddit comments which have slowly turned their brains into velveeta
but anyway, enough about Lemmitors.
Hexbears are actually a nice bunch if you read through the comments on the current megathread. They just have very little tolerance for self-satisfied libs that congratulate themselves for thumping the Washington consensus-approved ideologies that most of hexbear graduated from years ago. Even I find it difficult to read lemmy comments because they’re legitimately what I would’ve written as a teenage redditor in the late 2000s.
They’re just fascists LARPing as socialists. They’re not taking down the man. They’re supporting the man, just that the man they’re supporting is oppressing people in another country. They’re either working for an oppressive government or they’re privileged white kids that think their internet image matters more than the hardships of people in the oppressive countries the support.
You sound like hexbear LOL. “Anyone that disagrees with me is racist!”
Meanwhile Russians and Chinese people are living under oppressive fascist regimes and privileged white kids support that because their contrarianism made them support fascism.
I mean, I’m saying what youre doing is holocaust trivialization but I also linked a literal mainstream Jewish holocaust expert saying the same thing.
Meanwhile Russians and Chinese people are living under oppressive fascist regimes and privileged white kid
Let me stop you right there. China’s government has more than a 90 percent approval rate according to international pollsters. The concept of whole process peoples democracy comes from China. China is more democratic than your country.
And also a bunch of trolls who think “dunking on” anyone who remotely disagrees with the tiniest things is a personality trait. Their entire stated purpose of federating was to brigade and harass people enmasse. https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/7c983957-7809-4c48-aba0-9bfd543a605e.png
Your first paragraph calls the rest of Lemmy arrogant and stupid. Next paragraph you say in one sentence that you’re “actually a nice bunch”, then spend the rest of it criticising and patronising the rest of Lemmy for not being as smart as you.
Then you wonder why people have a problem tolerating you.
let’s be real, if my comment ended at the fist paragraph you would’ve upvoted and moved on. Multiple comments in this thread belittle hexbear users as children as well, but you don’t have as much of negative reaction against that.
Have a bunch of them made alts on Lemmy .ml? I feel like this comment section ripe with bears that are on .ml. I suppose being able to make alts is one of the advantages of being decentralized.
Well right now they’re beating eachother off over this post. They see us mocking them and they think they’re intimidating or something? Not sure but it’s sad and cute at the same time.
not sure why downvote bc he asked why tankies might come from that instance and yall always talk about defederating tankies so who would join an instance that is defederating their beliefs?
Fuck the soviet union - harder than how the soviet troops fucked both my grandmothers when they “liberated” my birth country, and harder than how the soviet rule fucked the economy afterwards.
What relevance does it have? A country in Europe that was under soviet oppression between WW2 and the fall of the soviet union. There are several like it and it matters little which one did I happen to born in - all suffered a similar fate.
It matters because if its low population, gdp per capita will rise if its lowered. Also I would like to know where the sources are from and that its not some silly line you just faked.
The source is in the lower right corner. Population was in the high one-digit million scale. But none of this matters when one can clearly see how the economy skyrocketed after the soviets left.
We are not equating “communists” with fascism, we are equating authoritarian communists with fascism. They are both as bad because they are both authoritarian regimes that are based around opressing the people.
And holicaust trivialization? Didn’t the URSS kill a shit ton of people as well? Isn’t China commiting crimes against humanity as well?
If you think the USSR is an “authoritarian”(whatever that means) communist country and you are equating it to fascists you are doing what the Jewish holocaust scholar is calling holocaust trivialization. They are primarily talking about equating the USSR and fascism. Did you read the article?
Authoritarianism isn’t the same as fascism. But the good guys don’t side with the dictators and definitely not with the side hurting others even if they think giving in means the pain would stop.
Trivializing the Holocaust means to let bullies keep going unopposed and those that would trap and use others for labor or eradication which obviously can come from both sides but doesn’t mean you pretend the easiest answer is right.
Right answers are hard and are likely at the end of hard work and effort, constantly. So maybe stop hiding behind a simple answer and a single fact that makes you feel you have a rule we are all breaking and realize it’s gonna take a long and complicated answer and then come back and join the conversation.
I was specifically talking about them federating with shitjustworks for a day. But .world overreacts to shit all the time so I don’t think that was the gotchya you thought. I’m a lemmy supporter not a specific instance supporter.
A large part of it is a fanbase of Chapo Trap House which has a particular brand of humor that is rampant with esoteric inside jokes that are vulgar as a point, let alone to the extreme.
That humor, especially without that frame of reference, usually offends your average internet denizen.
Sure, but to my point: if you don’t know or are unaware of the kind of humor associated with their core userbase, you might not be able to tell the difference at face value.
I maintain the best way for the uninformed to try and understand Hexbear users is to learn about or listen Chapo Trap House regardless of your politics/agreement. It puts a lot of their antics into context.
A social network that was formed as a fork of lemmy, before lemmy had really entered the fediverse (tho they were planning to). Both Lemmy and Hexbear had communists among their founders, but the Hexbear devs found it more… Central to their objectives. When Lemmy federated, Hexbear didn’t. It planned to initially, but ended up being pretty satisfied of being a small, yet centralized social network, basically a communist Reddit. But the idea of joining the Fediverse appeared tempting once again with the boom that happened on Mastodon when the muskrat ate the bird, and to a greater extent when Reddit changed their API policy and lost a lot of the user’s trust, causing many redditors to move to Lemmy.
Hexbear devs then worked to essentially make it a Lemmy instance, but there were always disagreements about who to federate with. They first federated with Lemmygrad and Lemmy .ml. Lemmy .world quickly blocked them. They temporarily federated with sh .itjust .works, but this wasn’t well received on either side, so this was soon undone.
Ideology wise, pretty much everyone on Hexbear is some kind of communist. However, altho the “tankie”, pro-russia type is often seen, it’s not that homogeneous (there are even anarchist channels over there), arguably less than lemmygrad.
They’ve beefed with a few other instances they tried federating with too such as Lemmy.ee and lemmy.blahaj.zone. Their user base tends to be a bit more abrasive than most Lemmy instances, making federation controversial even among similarly minded instances such as lemmy.blahaj.zone
Ideology wise, pretty much everyone on Hexbear is some kind of communist. However, altho the “tankie”, pro-russia type is often seen, it’s not that homogeneous (there are even anarchist channels over there), arguably less than lemmygrad.
even the anarchists are pro soviet at least lol, I love my comrades
Everything you said was accurate except the pro Russia = tankie stuff. I just want to be able to say that the kulaks deserved and such without being tied to capitalist trash like Putin…
Yeah, I didn’t mean to say that all tankies are pro current Russia, but just that there is a specific type of tankies that is, and these are often the annoying ones.
I’ve actually yet to see anybody you’d call a tankie being pro Putin or pro current Russian government. What people are pro is Russia acting as a counter to NATO and facilitating multipolarity.
I think people are thrown off by anti NATO stance. I almost don’t blame people for confusing NATO opposition for Russia support, especially during on ongoing Russian invasion, which does seem to justify NATO’s existence. Nevermind NATO’s history of imperialist action, people are very tied up in the Ukraine war and are unwilling to cede any ground to anything that may appear even a little soft on Russia.
To be fair one country was invaded by the other. It is entirely understandable to back the party that was invaded by the other nation especially when that nation has a recent history of imperialism.
Last I checked, what actually happened was that Ukraine was plunged into a civil war after US ran a coup in 2104 that overthrew the democratically elected government.
Russia was invited into the conflict by LPR and DPR which it recognized independence of. This follows the precedent NATO set in Yugoslavia where it recognized breakaway regions and intervened on their behalf.
I don’t need to edit anything, the LPR and DPR were every bit as legitimate as the regions that broke away from Yugoslavia. What exactly are you claiming is the difference between the two scenarios?
That’s a bold claim to make given neither region were their own nation or were historically Russian or Ukrainian.
Yugoslavia was formed if multiple countries untied by socialism. The LPR and DPR as breakaway units are not the sane and seem to have been very heavily influenced by Russia. That’s the same imperialistic Russia that keeps invading foreign lands to seize them since Putin was elected.
The political entity was created by the USSR. The nation has existed for centuries. Do you know the difference between a nation and a state? Would you deny that Kurdistan exists as a nation?
Which are abstractions themselves so we are in fact discussing the concept if a nation vs a state. Before 1917 people recognized an area called Ukraine populated by Ukrainian people. LDR and DPR do not have that history in fact the Russian element is there due to the legacy of racist policies of the USSR that wanted these areas to have a Russian dominated population so they moved them there.
The LDR and DPR aren’t nations like Ukraine has been for centuries and the attempt to cast them as legitimate breakaway areas is just Kremlin propaganda to justify traditional Russian imperialism.
You’re just engaging in sophistry here. LPR and DPR are two well defined regions of the current state known as Ukraine. This is exactly the same situation as Yugoslavia. Every argument you’ve made equally applies to regions of Yugoslavia that separated. Russia just followed NATO precedent intervening on the behalf of the regions whose independence was recognized by Russia. You can keep doing mental gymnastics here all you like, but that’s the reality of the situation.
No they aren’t the same, if they were the same you could find documentation about their history. For fucks sake if they were equivalent the regions and people would have names like Serbians did while Yugoslavia existed.
There no gymnastics being done on my part. You have just uncritically accepted the imperialist propaganda from the Kremlin. Weird that you are on Lemmy.ML and are overtly supporting fascism…
What are you even talking about here, you’re saying there is no history of the people who were part of Yugoslavia?
The only one uncritically accepting imperialist propaganda here is you buddy. You’re the one who is supporting literal self described fascist. Maybe do some self reflection on that.
No Im saying the DPR and ZLPR aren’t nations with people tied to that nation like Ukranians have been for centuries. Those areas were Ukrainian until the Soviets moved ethnic Russians there to make it Russian dominant.
Im not supporting any fascists but you are backing Putin who has an undeniable history of imperialism and fascism.
You’re just showing complete and utter ignorance of Slavic history here. However, even in your ramblings you admit that people currently living in LRP and DPR (which you evidently can’t spell even), are predominantly of Russian ethnicity and hence want to be part of Russia.
Im not supporting any fascists but you are backing Putin who has an undeniable history of imperialism and fascism.
You very clearly support a fascist regime that took power in a violent coup in Ukraine in 2014. Here’s western media reporting on your friends
Tell me more how you are the educated one when you are spitting fascist propaganda. The fact that people want to be part of Russia does not give Russia the right to invade and steal children.
While both nations have far right neo nazis only one government, Russia, has granted them authority and promotes fascism abroad.
Last I checked I didn’t. I don’t support the GOP. I’m not a fan of Putin or frankly any Russian government. I’m not a fan of Ukraine’s government either but they were clearly invaded as a result of Putin’s imperialistic desires.
Now if you support the GOP or the Kremlin you might be allied with fascists. There is a weird history of fascists being supported by Marxist-Leninists
No, Ukraine was invaded because of NATO expansion. In fact, Stoltenberg has now publicly acknowledged that Putin made clear to NATO in a draft treaty before the war that it could avert it if NATO agreed not to keep enlarging. But NATO rejected the offer.
Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.
The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.
So he went to war to prevent NATO, more NATO, close to his borders.
So maybe stop lying and stop supporting the fascist regime in Ukraine that your government installed there in a violent coup.
These are the people you are allied with, and if that doesn’t give you a pause then what else is there to say about you as a person www.youtube.com/watch?v=TojapQRUhzs
You’re literally the one who is supporting actual overt fascists here. I love how you still haven’t even acknowledged this fact. You are utterly morally bankrupt. Maybe go do a bit of self reflection on the fact that your views perfectly align with people who tattoo themselves in swastikas.
You mean like the founder of The Wagner Group? He has SS logos on his neck. It’s almost as if both sides have some fascists but only Russia has one in the highest office.
Last I checked the wagner group isn’t part of the Russian government, but keep on lying since that’s all you’ve been doing here this whole time. Show me a single actual Russian government official who claims to be a fascist. Meanwhile, entire Ukrainian political elite are openly fascist as well as all your nazi friends in US who support them. I’ve provided you with plenty of sources clearly showing this to be the case. Ukraine doesn’t have some fascists, it’s run by a fascist regime, and the fact that you won’t even acknowledge this says everything I need to know about you as a person. Zelensky being Jewish doesn’t mean anything. Next, thing you’ll tell me Israel isn’t a fascist apartheid state because it’s run by Jews. You are so lost.
You are allied with literal self described fascists and you openly champion their cause.
They aren’t part of the government they just are regularly hired by them, are staffed at the top levels with Kremlin loyalists and carry out the Kremlin’s goals.
Suuuure they totally aren’t Russian.
Again Putin himself is advocating fascism and all the fascists seem allied with Russia on this issue.
Maybe you are completely confused what fascism is? After all you are mentally deficient enough to buy into Leninism.
They’re a PMC, and fascism isn’t the ideology of the PMC. Meanwhile, official battalions like azov are openly fascist, and fascists are part of the actual government in Ukraine. The fact that you keep trying to equate the two shows that you’re an utterly morally bankrupt liar.
Also, nowhere does Putin advocate for fascism. Stop lying. I know what fascism is, but either you don’t or you just lie. And I’m done talking to you nazi. Bye.
This is really a non-sequitur but I have zero idea how people choose to upvote it downvote anymore. You and I were in agreement and somehow I got upvoted and you got downvoted? I don’t get it
My issue with hexbearians was that in every single thread I saw them in they would do nothing but whatabout regardless of the context. I understand they may have good points about certain things and to their credit some had very well written and informative comments but most of the time they weren’t directly relevant to the topic. It could be a loud minority but it doesn’t change the fact it’s annoying to see huge threads of whatabout arguments all the time by them.
In my view, having consistent moral standards is a prerequisite for having an honest discussion on any topic. If anything, the actual whataboutism is pointing fingers at other countries while refusing to acknowledge what your own country is doing. People should focus on fixing problems at home and holding their own governments accountable first and foremost because that’s where they have most agency.
This is what people who you accuse of whataboutism point out. Focusing on countries you don’t like and talking about how bad they are when your own country does the same things simply serves to deflect attention and to create the impression that your own society is somehow better and more enlightened. This is how the west often justifies the atrocities it commits.
You know whataboutism isn’t an actual logical fallacy and was originally used in defense of British colonialism “well the IRA also does bad things” right?
Again, my point was that people should focus on themselves and what their countries are doing. Your “well the IRA also does bad things” is precisely the kind of deflection I’m arguing against.
There was an interesting writeup from someone on hexbear as to why they opposed the war in Ukraine. It was fascinating reading such a nuanced take on the conflict that completely ignored Russia’s imperialistic attitudes that Putin displayed from the moment he took office. It was really interesting reading someone who was really well informed to a point but seemed to not see past that point.
I don’t even really think it’s that they don’t see that point, it’s that they don’t want the US intervening in any more conflicts because the US always picks that side that’s closest aligned with their own capitalist/imperial goals, and the struggle for worker solidarity is the dominant dialectical struggle they’re interested in. If the US showed any interest in assisting a socialist project be successful, they might feel more comfortable with the US’s involvement, but that’s historically not been the case (nor would that make sense in that particular dialectical materialist worldview).
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