0Empty0,

What are the odds of incoming drama in this post about tankies? I’ll say -110.

SkyezOpen,

Whoops.

Blapoo,

I’ve read all the comments here and still don’t have a clue what a hexbear is

seejur,

So you know the Lemmy instance Lemmy.world? Well, there is another instance called hexbear… Which is full of hardcore, Stalinist communist. And every user of every other instance hates them

JoeBigelow,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

Why would I put is so much energy as to hate them?

Jargus,

Hate is a strong word. People are just fucking annoyed by them since they constantly act like a 4Chan Troll brigades to trigger the “Liberals” and make everything political. They swarmed every instance that was federated with them and pushed hard their “Murcia/the West/Ukraine = bad and China/Russia = good” agenda and attacked people with different opinions.

Hadriscus,

They’re marxists-leninists, not stalinists…

obinice,
@obinice@lemmy.world avatar

There’s nothing inherently wrong with Marxism though (not that you said there was, I just get the impression some people are calling them socialists as if it’s inherently an evil thing), they’re entitled to their opinions on an alternative to capitalism, it doesn’t make them bad or weird people.

I gather from what I’ve read here that people mostly don’t get along with them because they are awful, terrible people (and honestly may not even be proper Marxists but maybe just posers, using it as a perfunctory label, idk).

I’d gladly be friends with a Marxist, but friends with an authoritarian, or a xenophobe, etc? Absolutely not. Regardless of their other political or economic opinions.

Hadriscus,

I’m an anarchist myself, so marxists are my brothers and sisters. So far, I’ve only seen displays of great inclusiveness from them (apart from telling me to fuck off, lol). However there’s a lot of different types over on hexbear, some of them definitely being angry edgy teenagers. Still, definitely not a xenophobic bunch. I feel the general sentiment isn’t warranted.

nickwitha_k,

Similar experience. Great experiences until saying something that gets misconstrued due to lack of context and pitchforks come out. Then, some continue positive interactions and mods step in to curb unwarranted hostility. Still, despite getting singed a bit, it’s overall been incredibly inclusive.

areyouevenreal,

Stalin invented the term Marxist-Leninist. Before that they were just called Leninists.

Maeve,

“ And every user of every other instance hates them”

This doesn’t even rise to the level of pseudo intellectual.

BudgetBandit,

Ah. So like the famous lines „everything that touches the light“ „what about the dark spot over there?“ „don’t ever go there“

Mothra,
@Mothra@mander.xyz avatar

That’s right, Simba

Huschke, (edited )

Why do people always put labels on them as if that’s the reason they are idiots. It’s not. There just a bunch of obnoxious trolls that have made it their mission to annoy other instances.

RobertOwnageJunior,

It kinda seems to go Hand in Hand though…

Nythos,

I mean being a Stalinist and being an idiot are kind of one and the same are they not?

Huschke,

Sure, but there are plenty of people over there that are not Stalinsts, but still obnoxious trolls.

SaakoPaahtaa,

By definition, smart people are not commies doe

Maeve,

That’s the most tellingly ignorant comment itt.

MisterScruffy,

First man in space not smart I guess

SCB,

Fearful that a high-level national hero might be killed, Soviet officials banned Gagarin from participating in further spaceflights. After completing training at the Zhukovsky Air Force Engineering Academy in February 1968, he was again allowed to fly regular aircraft. However, Gagarin died five weeks later, when the MiG-15 that he was piloting with flight instructor Vladimir Seryogin crashed near the town of Kirzhach

Commies smh

JoeBigelow,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

Yep no technology in Communist countries, just your basic fire and wheels.

ImmortanStalin,

Not true! I love that bunch.

Ilovethebomb,

Of course the tankie bootlickers like them.

LarkinDePark,

Naw they’re funny af

TalkingCat,

Instance is hexbear.net, check it out for yourself, doesn’t work in browser for me without an account but it does work in liftoff without one for some reason.

It is weird that a lot of commenters here want to tell you what they are but don’t say how to find this information by yourself.

Jakeroxs,

Then they might find out the “they’re all just tankies!” line is a lie, there’s shitty people on all instances, just so happens this one leans very left beyond neo liberalism and therefore it’s bad!

Throw in that they all totally support Putin and Mao and don’t really support LGBT! And you’ve got most normies nodding along with defederating

kmkz_ninja,

“Add in that they support authoritarian dictators and don’t like the gays”

Astroturfed,

It’s a lemmy instance full of edge lords who are pro-totiltarian communism. The bulk of them think Mao and Stalin were good. Deny any atrocities committed by USSR/China. Also, for some reason tend to be super pro Russia. Due to NATO being on the opposite side they support Russia and call Ukrainian/NATO nations Nazis.

Blapoo,

I’d like to meet these people. I wonder if they’re real.

BuboScandiacus,
@BuboScandiacus@mander.xyz avatar

My theory is that they are just russian bots

MrBusinessMan,

That’s an entirely deranged theory

arefx,

I hope that’s all but there’s a lot of people on this planet and plenty of them are insane.

Blapoo,

AI’s gonna make this tricky :S

TrippyFocus,

Think they’re way overhated, yes some of the users can troll a bit too much but they’re generally fine and I appreciate that they help stomp out fascist, racist, and anti-trans rhetoric on Lemmy.

Jax,

I was called a bigot by 7 or 8 different people because I dared to suggest that when someone finishes transitioning, they are no longer trans.

They are a man or woman, or whatever else they identify as.

That made me a bigot.

They don’t help stomp out anything, they turn people against trans people. They literally give conservatives ammunition.

Stephen304,

I believe trans refers to gender assigned at birth, so unless someone detransitions or time travels to change their birth gender I don’t think fully transitioning can make you not trans.

Jax,

Trans people continuing to call themselves trans after transitioning is an entirely different topic.

My point is that I accept trans people.

Someone wanting to call themselves trans after transitioning, in no way, justifies calling me a bigot. That is the most braindead way to try and influence change in the world.

Hexadytes are cancer. They’re cancer here, they were cancer on /r/chapostraphouse.

dingleberry,

I’ll just leave this here lemmy.sdf.org/comment/2796891

T3rr4T3rr0r,
T3rr4T3rr0r avatar

What is wrong with people

TrippyFocus,

I don’t support messages like that but I’ve seen similar messages from racists and fascists from other instances too, does that mean every instance where a small portion of the users DM fucked up shit should be defederated?

AdmiralShat,

I think if a whole instance was dedicated to racism or fascism, then yeah

TrippyFocus,

Oh I agree but that’s why I specified a small portion. If an entire instance is dedicated to racism or fascism I 100% support defederation.

Kangie,

What about authoritarian communism?

ReCursing,
ReCursing avatar

Not great, but nowhere near the same level of problem in the west where most of us are commenting from right now, so your whataboutism is irrelevant. Wanna try again?

AdmiralShat,

We’re talking about hexbear, so it’s perfectly relevant

Jax,

At this point I assume anyone speaking positively on hexbears behalf is just an alt account.

It’s easier this way, I don’t have time for people who don’t have eyes.

AdmiralShat,

In what way is sucking the Chinese Governments boot any better than Facism?

arefx,

Also it’s disingenuous to pretend china isn’t at all fascist.

MrBusinessMan,

China is good and fascism is bad hope that clears things up for you

Aurenkin,

Fuck the CCP

asuka,
@asuka@sh.itjust.works avatar

It’s not. The Chinese government is an abusive autocracy that doesn’t respect the “rights” of its people and answers to nothing and no one other than Xi and profits and power. Those three things are king.

Marxists and fascists are two sides of the same coin. They may have somewhat different end goals, but they’re alike in having zero regard for the democratic will of the people. May every Hexbear troll be accursed.

257m,

I wouldn’t say classical Marxists could be equated with fascists but most people nowadays who call themselves “Communists” are fascist at heart.

ReCursing,
ReCursing avatar

Authoritarian, yes, fascist, no. We need the term fascist at the moment to call out actual fascists, diluting it by using it label people who aren't fascists but are also problematic plays directly into the misinformation the fascists thrive on

root_beer,

Exactly, I’m getting sick to death of the overuse of the terms fascism and nazism because they’re being used to describe everyone with a totalitarian bent. Yes, the GOP have fascistic tendencies, so it’s apt, but the real operative word to use in pretty much all of these cases is authoritarianism. And whether they’re [actual] fascists or communists, authoritarians are reprehensible. The Nazis were irredeemable but—and I say this as a socialist—so were the Soviets.

_Sc00ter,

I honestly have no idea what they stand for. Their posts are so confusing and non coherent. I’m sure a lot of it is because sarcasm doesn’t work with text unless you have context. But without context, all it comes across as is a bunch of trolls who just love to hate

I couldn’t care less about them

PatFussy,

They are a tossup of ccp communists, hard left leninists and general anti westerners. They constantly bully people to remind them that they are smarter than you and they are eager to showcase this. They post screenshots of comments they want to target on their main page and links so they can brigade. If you even bother interacting, they will spam you with the intent of getting you to peer into their carefully chosen pieces of information to steer you toward communism. They are a nuisance and i have learned that if you can easily bait them into saying awful things.

Pandemanium,

Their whole stance is bizarre. It would be like if I believed every country should be democratic, but if any non-democratic foreigner asked me about it I said, “well I’m not going to even talk to you until you’ve read every bit of democratic theory, and even if you do, I’m not going to admit or discuss any criticism of democracy. Also, you are evil for just being born in your evil country.” They can’t possibly expect to convert anyone that way.

lagomorphlecture,

Written sarcasm is an art form that few people truly understand.

TrippyFocus,

They’re a left wing group that uses a lot of sarcasm and trolling. It can be a bit off putting to most but a lot of it comes from the fact that most people don’t bother reading or looking beyond US propaganda so it can be frustrating talking to people like that. Personally I try to come at things a bit more openly but I can understand the frustration of dealing with people that don’t put in much effort to understand the nuances of geopolitical topics.

ImmortanStalin,

Thanks for the reasonable take!

11181514,

They openly brigade submissions and comments on other instances and harass anyone they don’t agree with. It’s not just some of the users it’s almost entirely the point of the community existing. Their comments are almost entirely sarcastic, and add nothing to conversation or even debate.

Feel free to show us one single instance where they “stamped out fascist, racist, [or] anti-trans rhetoric” because I don’t believe you.

LarkinDePark,

harass anyone they don’t agree with.

Can you show an example of why of this? More sounds like you lost an argument.

imPastaSyndrome,

Ah yes, lost as in they started posting pig shit balls " so lol you lose fucking lib"

Remember, if you having a conversation with someone on the internet and they’re a bigger asshole you lose the conversation!

Thanks for your hexbear intelligence level adjacent conversation lemmygrad

LarkinDePark,

Stuff that really ever happened. Got it.

imPastaSyndrome,

Right, because they NEVER used pig shit balls that’s not a custom emoji picture on their insurance or anything, and they don’t have a “libsgetdunkedon” or equivalent community, where they say shit like that constantly. Riiiight.

But of course you have to deny reality to be on the mental level of a lemmygrad poster

TrippyFocus,

https://lemmy.one/post/2831169Think I linked this right (haven’t tried since I switched to voyager). I can have more later this week if you want but it’s Labor Day weekend here and im drinking with family and you said literally one instance.

imPastaSyndrome,

That’s a dead link bro edit :actually, what’s weird is the hyperlink is broken but the link itself seems to be working when you copy the text of your link.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

People who think being a jackass is a form of activism. That's all you really need to know.

American_Communist22,
@American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Why would we treat you bigoted removed with any sort of dignity. You do not own the right to my respect, we give it to those who earn it.

Pons_Aelius,

I have seen so many thread saying how bad that instance is but every time I ask for links proving how bad they are I have never see anything worth the hate.

Can you provide some examples?

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

You want to form your own opinion, so go check it out.

audiomodder,

lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1854795

How about flooding a meta thread that’s not on their own instance to insult people who disagree with them?

Part of the drama with that incident included hexbear folks straight up saying “I thought the whole point of federating with other instances was so that we could dunk on liberals”. Majority of folks on hexbear did not see any issues with the behavior of their members on this post.

XiaoHei,

why didn’t you post the second one after the admin of hexbear and the admin of blahaj talked where they agreed hexbear wouldn’t do that in the second one.

lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/1912461

fushuan,

Oh wow, there’s more hexbear comments than blahaj comments. Almost every blahaj comment has like 3-4 responses. I read a comment of someone saying that the thread looks wildly different if you see it from an instance that defederated them, and it’s so sad that it is completely different.

American_Communist22,
@American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml avatar

How about flooding a meta thread that’s not on their own instance to insult people who disagree with them?

if you consider this a flood imma be real with you, you are very new to the internet

MrJukes,

I haven’t really had any issues with them. That said, literally the thread above this one in all top hour has a bunch of people hoping Biden gets COVID and dies…so there is that.

hexbear.net/post/515198

Pons_Aelius,

Meh. I have seen the same said about Musk, Trump and others.

While I don't agree with that being said about anyone, I think it is still up to a person to decide if they want to block hexbear.

MrJukes,

For sure, I’m not advocating blocking or defederating at all. But you asked for examples of hexbear being unsavory and I provided one. That is all. It would be more of an accumulation instead of one singular instance that might push some over the edge.

charliespider,

I don’t know personally, but a commenter above wrote:

I appreciate that they help stomp out fascist, racist, and anti-trans rhetoric on Lemmy.

So if there’s any truth in that, the backlash could be a bunch of whiney butthurt Nazis.

Pons_Aelius,

Again: can I please have a link to show why they are bad.

Otherwise it is just: Trust me Bro

intensely_human,

No you may not have a link. Linking to bad things makes a person bad. Providing evidence of bad things makes a person bad. Anything other than belief makes you bad. In fact I think you must be one of the bad people, because evidence of righteous claims supports the idea that righteous claims require evidence, which is bad.

Misconduct,

Well someone posted a bunch of screenshots that just make you look kinda goofy now

Maeve,

I went to a link below and honestly, as another commenter succinctly summarized as “whiny butthurt Nazis” was a giant “freedom” murica style. Seriously, my eyes hurt, I left.

GnothiSeauton,
@GnothiSeauton@lemmy.world avatar

If you’d like examples I know some of their bad takes are starting to be posted to !meanwhileongrad

Pons_Aelius,

I have been there and not seen anything worth banning an instance.

Can you give a direct link to somersaulting you think should result in de-federation?

hypelightfly,

Sealion alt account, got it.

Pons_Aelius,

Any account I don't agree with is a saeloin. Got it.

Someone provided what I was asking for and I changed my stance in a reply 10 minutes before you commented.

See my reply to @SkyezOpen in this thread.

Thank you.

Finally something ban worthy.

I agree completely that any instance that hosts that type of content should be de-federated.

Now, I am sure you will retract your accusation...

hypelightfly,

Got it, still being a sea lion.

Pons_Aelius,

You asked for evidence. I provided it but it wasn't enough?

What is that called?...

hypelightfly,

Still asking questions I see.

Pons_Aelius,

Still passing judgement I see.

SkyezOpen,

They’re tankies. End of story.

Pons_Aelius,

Again. Trust me bro.

That is not evidence.

SkyezOpen,

Literally scrolled for 10 seconds and hey genocide denial. …dbzer0.com/…/c9fc2504-6828-4d30-ad4a-9224e2a2e58…

Not to mention unironic Russia shilling. When I called out a mod he responded with “oh yeah well America worked with nazis.”

Cool. That’s bad too. They’re contrarian to the point of parody. Literally any wrong by China Russia or north Korea is justified by “well America did the same thing” as if leftists as a whole aren’t already on board with that thing being bad, but it still doesn’t excuse that bad thing now.

Pons_Aelius,

Thank you.

Finally something ban worthy.

I agree completely that any instance that hosts that type of content should be de-federated.

TrippyFocus,

Just throwing out the word tankie is pretty much meaningless at this point. It might as well be “woke”. If you have specific issues explain that rather than just trying to shut down a conversation with a word. Some users might be a bit too sympathetic too China but I’ve typically seen them more come from a reasonable non US propaganda viewpoint and have been open to actual criticism about China. Some of it can seem like whataboutism but to be fair a lot of the complaints I see about China are shit the US does as well so it can be a fair point.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

In terms of the "tankie problem", it's mostly supporting Russian aggression in Ukraine pretty much solely to "own the libs" and "get back at the evil NATO". Most "tankies", a term that has become effectively meaningless from overuse, are more accurately political contrarians who care less about things getting better for more people and more about Owning The Libs.

There's honestly a good chunk of them on most fediverse instances just due to the general community vibe, with Hexbear having more than, say, lemmy.world, but less than lemmygrad. Hexbear stands out moreso to being the successor to Chapo Trap House, a community notorious for being so utterly vile to interact with that nobody wants anything to do with them.

Maeve,

Do your think Ukraine and NATO are above reproach?

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

No, but they're absolutely the lesser of two evils here. I'm generally not sure how people justify a war of territorial expansion to stroke the ego of a geriatric dictator in Ukraine, then turn around and get angry about a war of territorial expansion to stroke the ego of a geriatric dictator in, say, Afghanistan.

It's hypocrisy. You dronestrike a children's hospital in Kabul and everyone acknowledges the evil of it, but Russia dronestrikes a children's hospital in Ukraine and suddenly it's justified as "retaliating against western imperialism". Sure, and Iran had nukes Uncle Sam needed to find, too.

Maeve,

Lesser of two evils? Please. How old do you think I am, ten? I’m not at all sure they’re the lesser of two evils, but then I’m pretty critical of things like imf, World Bank, allying with Saudi Arabia “ccp bad” garbage. Humans are animals and I’m here to learn and the western narrative is rather sanitized so no thanks.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

You are a political contrarian if you think invading a sovereign nation is justified by "the western narrative is rather sanitized". You don't care about people's lives or welfare, you care about Being Special and Being Better Than Other People.

To be blunt, you disgust me with your callous disregard for the lives of innocents solely to be cool and edgy on the internet.

Maeve,

Nah, you’re just trying to bully me to agree with you, with zero sense of irony in a thread ostensibly about the same behavior; unless that’s not why you’re upset with that behavior, per se.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

I don't particularly care if you agree with me or not. What I find interesting is that what motivates your political positions are effectively identical to, say, an American christofascist. Disdain for the mainstream media, performative cynicism, conspiratorial thinking. If it goes counter to The Mainstream, it must be good. The idea that people may be harmed by your position doesn't matter to you at all. People """are animals""", after all, and they matter to you only as props in your self-aggrandizing personal narrative.

I'm genuinely not sure how you're intending to sell your position of "Empathy is for losers, the only thing that matters is Being Right On The Internet" as anything other than repulsive, or how you're not demonstrating why people dislike hexbear users (i.e. spitting on the concept of basic human empathy due to political contrarianism).

OurToothbrush,

Equating communists you disagree with with fascism is holocaust trivialization, according to mainstream Jewish scholars of the holocaust.

jewishcurrents.org/the-double-genocide-theory

Maeve,

What? You just made a bunch of knee-jerk accusations of which nothing I said could reasonably lead you to conclude.

Take every claim you made and prove it like you went to high school English classes because frankly, you just made up claims attacking me, personally, because I dared say I want to hear what someone else has to say and form my own opinions. And accused me of being “just like the Christofascist” with zero sense of irony.

Also, please let me know when humans aren’t in the animal kingdom. How old are you? Ten?

darthelmet,

For me, I don’t support what Russia is doing. I just don’t want to further empower the US military industrial complex. Every couple of years there needs to be a new evil enemy for us to be scared of so that the money can keep flowing into weapons and so that we have excuses to extract value out of other countries in conflict. It’s obvious we don’t do this for humanitarian reasons or we wouldn’t be allies with countries like Saudi Arabia (or see the entire history of US intervention since WWII). Whether Russia wins or loses the war, people in Ukraine aren’t winning, they’re just seeing which imperialists are going to be exploiting them for the near future.

In the abstract I don’t oppose assisting countries against imperialist aggression with military force. But playing into US warmongering doesn’t really do that and in the process is further making the world a worse place.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

A good deed done for the wrong reasons is still a good deed. The reason why NATO is the lesser of two evils in this sense is that between two brutal authoritarian regimes, NATO is significantly more hands-off and more open to being manipulated by civilian interest than the more brutally right-wing Russian regime. One of these exploitative imperialists will probably let you get gay married, the other one will kill you for it. The US military industrial complex will pick a target regardless. It may as well be a target that ends up counteracting Russian imperialism; I'd rather have those bullets in Russian corpses than, say, whatever country Saudi Arabia has decided needs bullying this week.

Anyways, the core of the issue is that it takes a LOT of hand-wringing and "b-but both sides" to justify active warfare to sit back and let an imperial power shit hellfire down civilians' throats. Anyone who actively supports pulling out of Ukraine is, bluntly, just kind of an idiot.

OurToothbrush,

Nato has killed magnitudes more people though, they go to war much more often and much more vigorously than Russia.

SatansMaggotyCumFart,

Do you think Ukraine deserved to have Russia invade?

bane_killgrind,

Well apparently Kbin has some political contrarians too, who'd have thought.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

There's always at least one. I just hope that it's more of an edgy-rebellious-phase thing.

Maeve,

Contrarian? Hardly. I’m just aware that Western Europe and the USA have their own agendas, engage in propagandizing their own citizens, to greater or lesser extent. Pretending otherwise is disingenuous. Notice how lacked the behavior, not the person, without knowing more? Try out sometime.

bane_killgrind,

So trying to frame this as "which is worse" is just a bad argument.

Put some effort into proving your position.

You also seem pretty condescending, why should people respect you if you don't respect them?

TrippyFocus,

I appreciate you actually explaining your position behind the use of the word. I have a lot of issues with NATO and some with Ukraine but I agree that Russia is the aggressor in this situation. I have noticed that some of their users are pro-Russia but most of what I’ve seen is more anti-NATO which I can understand. As I said in another comment I definitely see some of the users troll more than I agree with and I personally prefer to deal with things in a different manner but overall I’m fine with being federated with them.

GnothiSeauton,
@GnothiSeauton@lemmy.world avatar

You may have me confused with someone else. I didn’t say anything about defederation or banning instances.

What in your opinion is behavior or views that is worthy of defederation? There appears to be many different standards for that from what I’ve seen.

yA3xAKQMbq,

Lol, that’s because the mods of said threads already had to delete all the bullshit they posted once they “accidentally found this on all” and then descent on it like locusts (but they’re totally not brigading!!!1!)

Here’s one of their mods:

https://i.imgur.com/HBnFO2t.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/v6niFYY.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/fEPfG61.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2uIj64m.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VCNS8FV.jpg

American_Communist22,
@American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml avatar

and guess what

Kill yourself, bigots. I will not be civil to those who view me as lesser. I view you as lowly as you do me.

OurToothbrush,

SJW is shit just works in this context. Also yeah, do you expect her to be civil to bigots?

intensely_human,

I’ve been asking for links to examples, in posts about online trends, for about a decade now and nobody has ever even once risen to the challenge.

At this point any claim of the form “The internet has X happening on it” I just immediately dismiss until I see evidence. Which I never do.

Maeve,

Never? With variable “X” never?

FuntyMcCraiger,

I’m sure a lot of people just think your a sea lion.

Confused_Emus,

It’s not the rest of the internet’s responsibility to do your research for you.

EnderofGames,

It's not everyone on the internet's responsibility to change their opinion to match yours. It is incredibly narrow minded to assume that someone would just do "research" and end with the same opinion of a group of people as you.

If you see someone express an opinion, and you don't know why, you ask them, not go to other sources to find why.

Confused_Emus, (edited )

If you rely on others to fill you in with knowledge, you must not have learned anything after school.

EnderofGames,

If you rely on others...

Yeah, I'm sure you formed that opinion on a factual basis that you found through no help from what others posted or said. When I want to learn something, I do research on books and online media. When I want to understand someone's opinion, I ask them. If you don't know the difference between those two, your problems stem way earlier than "after school".

You sound like the closeted book nerd that doesn't understand public opinion. Like all the people on Twitter who once read something about "blacks are more violent than other races", and if you ask them why they think that, how many stats they read that confirm that, possibilities of other reasons for a study's conclusion, they respond with "It’s not the rest of the internet’s responsibility to do your research for you"- sound familiar?

If you want to accuse this "intensely human" person of lying, just do it. But claiming that anyone who hasn't seen an example within thousands (tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? Only been around for 2 months, but millions of site uses) of posts of users being "tankies" just needs to "research" is obtuse and moronic. If someone makes the claim, surely they have an example, and don't expect everyone who sees this meme to read thousands of messages before continuing on their journey through !memes.

Except you, of course, who has clearly learned after school not to rely on others, so you must have read all of the comments from various hexbear users yourself, and not taken that opinion from some other poster's list, right? You did waste all that time before suggesting others do the same for no reason, right?

Confused_Emus,

K buddy, I’m not reading that.

MonsieurHedge,
MonsieurHedge avatar

I have never see anything worth the hate.

You just have a very high tolerance for jackassery. You've seen plenty of evidence of hexbear hostility, i.e. the "dunk tank" that would justify not wanting to interact with hexbear users and have actively chosen to disregard it.

This is because you're kind of a jackass. Disregarding people engaging in good faith with "just trust me bro" is exactly the kind of thing people really hate hexbear users for. Not because of illegal activity or moral failing, but because they're assholes. While you may think this isn't worth de-federation, unfortunately moderators aren't some kind of legal authority, and if federating with hexbear means instance admins or community moderators need to put in triple the work to prune all the arguments and """shitposting""" hexbear users love, nobody is legally or morally required to put up with it.

It's legitimately that simple. Hexbear users are jerks and nobody wants to hang out with them, and that's enough to ban them from any given community or instance.

Snowpix,
@Snowpix@lemmy.ca avatar
Gormadt,
@Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

For anyone curious:

Source for the thread where that image comes from.

The whole thread is pretty eye opening to be honest. Especially the top comment.

JoeBigelow,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

Best point I’ve read made here.

I’m also probably kind if a jackass, because hex bear doesn’t bother me. Would I appreciate a civil conversation to better understand their POV? Totally. Will that happen? No. So I just don’t interact. The fierce protection of LGBTQ communities is something I appreciate however.

gowan,

As a bi guy who has spent decades fighting for my rights Im not sure that their “defense” is beneficial. If you are a fucking piece of shit to everyone you interact with you might be surprised that people don’t want your help.

FaeDrifter,

The fierce protection of LGBTQ communities is something I appreciate however.

It’s not really genuine though. They lightly elevate trump above all other presidents despite his history of attacking LGBTQ rights: lgbtqnation.com/…/trumps-record-lgbtq-rights-vile…

It’s just a political angle to get support from people who feel isolated away from other political movements.

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

It’s just a political angle to get support from people who feel isolated away from other political movements.

Fucking BINGO.

These suxbears are just trying to do a psyop. They aren’t good at it either. Xi could have trained them much better is all I’m saying.

mycorrhiza,

Aren’t you the guy who admitted earlier you were lying about them just to stir shit?

lemmy.ml/comment/3381095 (scroll down to the bottom)

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Is your shit thoroughly stirred?

My inbox sure is. Keep the brain-drain flowing my way.

Also, Donald Trump is a communist.

mycorrhiza,

I guess the question is, if you don’t actually believe the shit you say, what actually motivates you?

YeetPics,
@YeetPics@mander.xyz avatar

Honestly, the pages of well thought out responses are reward enough, but all the sweet time yall waste typing is what really makes it worth my time (all 10 minutes of it).

Getting you folks a taste of what it’s like to share a space with you… well that bit is fucking priceless.

Honorary Trump is a communist for your question.

Jakeroxs,

Lol what, who on hexbear is elevating trump, this is a hilarious take.

Also just gonna leave this here observer.com/…/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-tru…

American_Communist22,
@American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml avatar

we think its funny that libs are mad at realizing the system is shit, so obviously we are the only ideology in existence besides democrat= a republican

FaeDrifter,

Basically the whole Hexbear most upvoted consensus was that all US presidents deserve to be executed, the DNC and GOP are the same, but Trump at least is funny, kind of authentic, and triggers the libs.

Also lol that observer article aged like fucking milk. Clinton couldn’t have found a better way to self-destruct her chances at winning the election.

If you want more: rollingstone.com/…/yikes-new-behind-the-scenes-bo…

Jakeroxs,

Can you show me where this post was on Hexbear?

Also yeah the Clinton campaign fucked itself in many ways, trump just being one that we all get to deal with on a daily basis still

FaeDrifter,

Someone else found it for me: hexbear.net/post/451217

Jakeroxs,

So them saying he’s comical (which he is)but should still be executed for his crimes is a bad thing?

FaeDrifter,

Executed for the crime of being a US president, nothing to do with his policies of attacking minority groups.

Jakeroxs,

Lol do you really think that’s what they think? They’re not as shallow as you seem to think.

FaeDrifter,

I’m going off what gets posted and upvoted and interacted with.

It is possible there’s a comment buried in there that covers Trump’s record of policies and rhetoric regarding minorities, and I missed it.

Jakeroxs,

So you think it’s as simple as, “well they hate presidents so they want them all to die and who cares about minorities!”

FaeDrifter,

Not “who care about minorities” but “we exploit minorities for political advantage”.

IE label everyone who disagrees with you as a transphobes, place all transpobes in front of a firing squad

Also actual transphobes (such as most of Russia) gets a free pass.

It’s not about fighting transphobes, it’s about fighting people who aren’t authoritarian communists.

fushuan,

This is the one: alexandrite.app/lemm.ee/post/5802627

The real consensus seems to be that he should be hanged just like all the other presidents, and that they find him funny because he is not as subtle as past presidents at doing the evil stuff.

The point I have seen being driven through is that they don’t care to just mock people for their ideas and they really love to criticise without offering solutions besides violence and letting it all burn, which is a non-answer to most non-tankies, so there’s an impasse.

Jakeroxs,

I just find it very funny that on one hand people say they offer no solutions but on the other hand people say they want to discuss it too much and it’s exhausting, they clearly have solutions which is Marxist-Leninism, that has been made abundantly clear over and over so how can one say they offer no solutions?

fushuan,

Marxist-Lenisnism is not really an answer since its not like you can change such a core design of a society overnight, and since they want it fast, their arguments tend to resolve into violence / letting it all burn (which tbh will also come with violence), and again for several people that’s a non answer since they don’t want violence, so there’s an impasse.

For me that answer is like cool it won’t happen while I’m alive so what’s the point, either you tell me about something practical that people living in the situation can relate and/or act on (without violence), or I’ll just answer with something like “cool, that’s nice” and not contribute more since suddenly we are talking about something that’s so radically overboard from the current society that it’s pointless for me, and the vibe I get is that I’m not alone.

Jakeroxs,

Sure it’s not an answer for you but that doesn’t mean it’s right for you to incorrectly state they have no solutions.

I do find the Accelerationism that some on the far left push/advocate for to be a poor idea overall, I do think we need to slowly push people further left via things like social democracy and improving the lives of working class people via more social programs of that nature to be a better alternative, even though it will definitely take more time.

The problem is capitalism and the powers that be are constantly fighting against ANY progress on that front and are doing a damn good job of convincing people to fight against their own interests via various forms of propaganda.

On the other hand we’re having a revival of unions like I’ve never seen in our country before, so it’s not like there is no hope that things can improve, just the overall situation we find ourselves in makes it really easy for people to fall into more extreme views and apathy or anger about the system we’re currently living in. I think a Marxist/leninists/left viewpoint is miles above the fascist/nationalistic alternative

fushuan,

I want to reiterate what I wrote. I said that they propose no solution besides X, that doesn’t mean that they have no answer, but that their only answer is X. What I said is that their only answer is X and people find that answer problematic.

For context, I don’t live in the US and I vote for the left parties of my country, which work for social programs within the status quo, not for breaking the status quo. I get that what the US has is way more extreme, but this is a global forum and there’s people from countries where is not so bad. When the conversation is almost binary (you are the west or not, no middle point) and their context is not applicable to all, you get this kind of antagonism. And I get that everyone is not that way, I have had several positive and negative encounters with them, but people remember negative experiences more easily that positive ones.

That’s all, have a nice day

mycorrhiza, (edited )

Here FaeDrifter is again saying this shit.

A HUGE PORTION OF HEXBEAR IS TRANS. OVER HALF THE MODS ARE TRANS. THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR THREE YEARS PRIOR TO FEDERATION. FAE, PEOPLE HAVE POINTED THIS OUT TO YOU BEFORE. PROBABLY MULTIPLE TIMES NOW.

See @HornyOnMain in this very thread:

lemmy.ml/comment/3504748

We’ve never “pretended to support lgbt”, why would we? What would be the point of a load of alt right channers roleplaying as queer communists for years on an incredibly niche social media in the hope that eventually redditors would come to the site? And even supposing we did, and we were all just alt right types, if we’d spent years doing reading groups of queer theory together and kicking out transphobes and creating the most queer friendly space on lemmy just as an incredibly long extended bit then would the supposed communists we’re impersonating even take issue with that?

Like just use some critical thinking, at this point almost half of the sites users are trans and most of the rest are queer, most new users cite our radical opposition to queerphobia as their reason for joining, what evidence is there that we lie about being queer friendly? Like just check out !traaaaaaannnnnnnnnns or !anti_cishet_aktion or !transenby_liberation and tell me in good faith that all these people have been lying for years about being queer

FaeDrifter,

Identiy politics is so silly. It’s possible for a black person to support systemic racism, it’s possible for a Jewish person to support Nazi’s, it’s possible for LGBTQ people to support anti-LGBTQ politicians. Case in point - Jessica Watkins.

“I am x-identity” is lazy, superficial, irrelevant.

I don’t think anyone is lying about their identity. I do fully expect that the trans men and women of Hexbear would throw their LGBTQ brothers and sisters in front of a firing squad if it meant a chance at a bloody revolution over the bourgeois.

mycorrhiza, (edited )

But THEY DON’T SUPPORT THOSE THINGS! YOU’RE MAKING SHIT UP. THIS IS EASY TO SEE IF YOU GO LOOK AT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY SAY ABOUT FASCISTS AND TRANSPHOBES. YOU HAVE BEEN AT THIS FOR AT LEAST A FUCKING WEEK NOW.

FaeDrifter,

You have support for Trump and Russia in there, which is an unholy alliance stripping LGBTQ protections in law, funding transphobic and Neo-Naxi groups, and spreading fascist rhetoric online.

mycorrhiza, (edited )

“support for Russia” — opposition to NATO is not support for Russia. This isn’t a fucking football game.

“support for Trump” — The other day I sent you a huge thread where they all fucking hate Trump and agree he is an odious fascist.

Hexbear does not support Trump. The consensus view on hexbear is that Trump is more dangerous domestically, but Biden is more dangerous internationally, and they are both monstrous people who are terrible for the planet. Many hexbears voted for biden as harm reduction but it barely felt like harm reduction, and when you look at the whole planet, maybe it wasn’t. Trump is a fascist but also an isolationist. Biden is not a fascist, although he does virtually nothing to combat the fascists, but he is also more likely to start wars, coups, or inflict austerity on the global south, which is something people should care about. 9 million people starve to death every fucking year and America has huge international influence to make that worse or better. America supported the fucking siege in Yemen. America destroyed Libya — and that was the fucking Obama administration. I saw a study that tallied it all up and concluded that America has caused the deaths of 4.5 million people in the middle east since 9/11. And for that matter, Biden’s not great domestically either! There’s been virtually no pushback from the Biden administration against any of the fascist bullshit happening in this country. Florida legalized kidnapping children for forced conversion therapy and Biden won’t even say the word trans.

FaeDrifter,

support for Trump" — The other day I sent you a huge thread where they all fucking hate Trump and agree he is an odious fascist.

Lol, not really. We can dig it up and look at the highest rated posts again. Hexbear wants to execute him along with the rest of the US presidents, which is obviously just a fantasy. “All presidents are bad, both sides are the same, Trump is at least funny and kind of authentic and triggers the libs” was the overwhelming sentiment.

Trump is a fascist but also an isolationist.

Lol, no, he’s not an isolationist. He’s a globalist business man, and a wanna-be dictator imperialist, who is happy to be friends and allies with the other dictator imperialists of the world.

(Biden) is more likely to start wars

What? According to who? Are you just going to pretend the assassination of Qasem Soleimani didn’t happen under Trump?

Biden is very pro-Ukraine, which drives the pro-Russia people insane. I don’t know what else you could be talking about.

There’s been virtually no pushback from the Biden administration against any of the fascist bullshit happening in this country.

Trump rolled back LGBTQ rights and stacked SCOTUS with people to roll back women’s and LGBTQ rights, DeSantis leads the war on Trans people. It does NOT help LGBTQ causes to blame this on Biden. It does not help to say “well both sides are bad”. Fascists LOVE the “enlightened centrists” because it almost always benefits fascism.

mycorrhiza,

We can dig it up

Yeah, lets, instead of you cherry picking shit and distorting the intent behind it. Here’s the fucking thread. Holy shit, the consensus view is fucking exactly what I said it is.

As for thinking Trump is funny, the overwhelming view in Hexbear is extremely bleak. People struggle with depression and doomerism. They laugh to cope.

Here are hexbears talking about why they laugh at Trump

hexbear.net/comment/3843298

hexbear.net/comment/3841843

hexbear.net/comment/3839607

hexbear.net/comment/3842243

hexbear.net/comment/3840197

FaeDrifter,

Yeah that’s exactly how I remember it. “All US presidents bad, at least Trump is funny”.

As for thinking Trump is funny, the overwhelming view in Hexbear is extremely bleak. People struggle with depression and doomerism. They laugh to cope.

Maybe this is a real intention that I’m misinterpreting. It looks a lot like edgy Heath Ledger joker “just wants to watch the world burn”, fine if the fascists are the ones to do it. I’m willing to consider it’s just misplaced doomerism.

mycorrhiza,

if you think anyone on hexbear wants to watch the fucking world burn, you clearly have no fucking idea what any of these people think or believe or care about. I’m honestly struggling to even respond to this. It just shows complete ignorance, and then that you would go on and on for days slandering this community you know nothing about, with complete confidence, even after people contradict you and argue with you… I mean what the fuck do I say to someone who thinks a community whose entire set of political beliefs orients toward defending the poor and the marginalized from the monstrous psychopaths who rule this planet — wants to watch the fucking world burn? Please stop saying shit about hexbear when you do not know anything about these people.

FaeDrifter,

I’ll take the L that I only have a week of exposure to Hexbear, and it might be the worst week, given that Hexbears were all excited to “dunk on the shitlibs” and actually doing real life helpful productive things for marginalized and oppressed groups took a back seat on the burner.

In my not-very-important opinion from my short exposure, y’all have completely lost the plot. You would say edgy shock factor things for an internet point circle jerk , even if you’re giving ammo to the right. I think you all would rather LARP being leftist revolutionaries, fantasize about executions, you like driving people away from leftism because it reinforces your identity of being the most left.

If you really wanted to protect the poor and marginalized, I think you all would take the clue and reevaluate if you really value making the world a better place, and what you’re doing to achieve that.

mycorrhiza,

if you’re saying that being a too-online leftist is not really doing anything, hexbears are self-aware about that and riff on it pretty often. but plenty of hexbears are also involved in orgs, unionization efforts, and volunteer work. and the ones who aren’t are self-deprecating about it. this is where the “I will never log off!” riffs come from, they all know they should log off. that said, the community is also sort of a support group for people to share their stress about the world to other people who understand it and share a similar perspective. that’s the main purpose of the community, no one sees it as some “change the world by posting” platform. if they did, it wouldn’t make sense for them to stay defederated for three years.

FaeDrifter,

Heard. You’ve successfully made the points for me to not give any more of my opinions on Hexbear to anyone who isn’t from Hexbear. I’ll stand down and give everyone the fair chance to make their own opinions.

I think having a space to destress is really important. If you’re fighting for rights for minorities in your local area and you need to shout “death to America” in a friendly space online, you earned it and you deserve it.

mycorrhiza,

I appreciate that, thanks

JoeBigelow,
@JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca avatar

Maybe go edit that in to a higher level comment

HornyOnMain, (edited )
@HornyOnMain@lemmy.ml avatar

Hexbear wants to execute him

Please explain how wanting to see trump hung drawn and quartered for being a disgusting imperialist fascist is a pro Trump statement. Frankly if hexbear users could bring him back to live afterwards we’d happily want to see him brought back then hung, drawn and quartered a second time.

If you don’t want to see Trump hung, drawn and quartered you are more pro trump than hexbear is.

But also, “Identiy politics is so silly” is a massive fucking red flag, scratch a liberal and they start complaining about the woke mob

Edit:
lmao, this you?

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/412b03c9-299d-477f-b2ef-5d47b360db8e.jpeg

FaeDrifter,

If you don’t want to see Trump hung, drawn and quartered you are more pro trump than hexbear is

I care about real life policy and results.

I don’t think living in a fantasy of fetish violence makes you left or a left ally.

“Identiy politics is so silly”

Let me frame it in a way helpful to your confirmation bias. Zelenskyy is Jewish, does this automatically mean in the Russia invasion of Ukraine that Russians are the Nazis and Ukrainians aren’t? Identity politics.

lmao, this you?

100% yes, and I have learned that thinking neopronouns are unnecessary and silly makes me a transphobe, and transphobes deserve the firing squad.

I have not heard exactly how many and which neopronouns I have to learn before I’ve hexbeared hard enough to not get the firing squad.

HornyOnMain, (edited )
@HornyOnMain@lemmy.ml avatar

There’s a big difference between wanting trump to die and thinking that trump will actually be executed or suffer any real consequences for his crimes beyond a slap on the wrist and maybe some house arrest - of course Trump won’t face justice, like Bush, like Clinton, like Obama and like Biden he will only ever fall upwards and live comfortably for the rest of his life. Wanting awful people to face justice isn’t “living in fantasy land” it’s just being dissaffected with the reality that evil people will never face any kind of justice - I also want my country to be actually accepting of trans people and for the NHS to work as it should and for the police to not be institutionally racist, but I know it’s not going to happen.

And regarding the identity politics thing, I agree regarding liberal identity politics when Im talking with a materialist communist who’s criticising it from a left wing perspective but you’re not a communist, you’re a “”“liberal”“” criticising it from a right wing perspective because you’re mad that trans people are daring to criticise Biden and to call you a transphobe for being transphobic.
If your “allyship” that is entirely conditional on trans people being respectable and heteronormative enough for you to accept entirely consists of talking down to those trans people you do accept and telling them that they’re not allowed to criticise Biden too much or your fragile “allyship” will be retracted then it isn’t worth shit.

::: spoiler relevant MLK quote

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

  • Martin Luther King, Letter from a Birmingham Jail
FaeDrifter,

I have to admit I think it’s weird that afab men and amab women or any nonbinary thems are now considered heteronormative.

Set the firing squad on me because I say that’s stupid.

mycorrhiza, (edited )

Would I appreciate a civil conversation to better understand their POV? Totally. Will that happen? No.

People have actually had that conversation. You just have to seem curious and not too accusatory. Also — depending on how skeptical you come across — it might help to keep your questions specific so they don’t feel like they have to defend their entire perspective in one fell swoop, although some might be up for that.

They’re aware that their perspective tends to be vilified and poorly understood, which both makes them wary of people but also enthusiastic to respond when they find someone they think is actually interested in what they have to say. If I showed them your comment they’d probably be like “hell yeah, send him in.”

*I made a thread and I was going to link it to you if you wanted to ask questions, but I realized you’re defederated

Jax,

I was called a bigot because I dared to say that a person finished transitioning is no longer trans.

Because they’re done. They’re a man or woman now, and apparently treating them as such means I’m a bigot.

This isn’t defense, this behavior actively makes things worse for trans people. This is the exact type of behavior conservatives want you to think of when they say “trans people bad”.

Seryph,
@Seryph@lemmygrad.ml avatar

They’re a man or woman now

This is why, this statement means that you don’t view trans people who haven’t “finished transitioning” as their actual gender. This is a transphobic and pretty reductive understanding of how transition works (albeit one that some trans people hold themselves, usually transmeds). I won’t write an entire essay on why but here’s just a small bit to chew on: consider that a “finished transition” is very different from person to person and some people might never consider it finished. Some people only want to socially transition, others have to medicate for their entire lives, both could consider reaching their ideal state “finished” or they could consider it a continual work in progress.

Also,

This isn’t defense, this behavior actively makes things worse for trans people.

The idea that pointing out someone’s transphobia will somehow support the transphobes is laughable. If being called out is seriously enough to make someone stop supporting trans people then their support was conditional and only surface-level.

Staying civil, as you suggest, is what actually helps conservatives since it allows their views to go unchallenged when their views are bad and should be challenged. Part of this includes challenging people who may think they are supportive but harbour transphobic beliefs that they haven’t analysed fully. And these wrong beliefs can have actual harm. As a simple example, there are a lot of “allies” who say that trans people are their gender but not their sex, which is a belief that can harm trans people when brought into a medical context where our bodies are (if on HRT) closer to those of our actual gender than to our AGAB.

gowan,

Sex is a scientific and medical concept how is transphobic to say someone male at birth with XY chromosomal pairs was born male?

HornyOnMain,
@HornyOnMain@lemmy.ml avatar

If you are not trans shut the fuck up right now about what is or isn’t good for trans people, trans people do not need a cis saviour to come in and tell us we’re being too unpalatable for liberals who will only support us as long as we don’t get too uppity

Jax,

There it is, rabid dog behavior.

You give the conservatives everything they need hexadyte.