Minnesota Democratic ‘uncommitted’ vote nears 20% in latest Biden rebuke

Disgruntled progressive activists and organizations have embarked on a campaign to push voters to mark themselves “uncommitted” in protest of Biden’s stance on the Israel-Hamas War.

With 95% of the expected vote tabulated, 70.5% of voters backed Biden while 19.0% went uncommitted, according to a tabulation by The Associated Press.

In Minnesota, more than 45,000 marked themselves “uncommitted” — a number greater than the margin by which Hillary Clinton defeated Donald Trump in the state in 2016.

rusticus,

Classic progressive approach: nothing is ever good enough. We LOST ABORTION RIGHTS and will lose them nationally if Trump gets reelected. But let’s throw Biden under the bus for Israel-Hamas, which every US president in the last 50 years has been fucking up.

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

Okay, can we throw Biden under the buss for everything else?

Like you know, not defending abortion rights….

… not doing much more than corpo handouts for climate change….

…. Not protecting voting rights…

….not packing the courts so now we have the 14th in serious jeopardy?

There’s more. But like, I don’t have time.

rusticus,

President is not dictator.

FuglyDuck,
@FuglyDuck@lemmy.world avatar

No but he is the nominal leader of his party. And he- along with most every democrat- just rolled over.

Keep in mind Biden is a very large part of how we got here in the first place, a leader in politics for longer than I’ve been alive.

swade2569,
@swade2569@lemmy.world avatar

Pretty sure Netanyahu wants Trump re-elected so he’s going to make Biden’s life as difficult as possible. I think Biden loses favor no matter what he does when it comes to Gaza, unless there’s another crisis he can better at good dealing with.

swade2569,
@swade2569@lemmy.world avatar

“…crisis he can look better at dealing with.” I swear I didn’t have a stroke just now.

Omegamanthethird,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

The problem is that everything he does right becomes old news. Remember when the Republicans almost made us go into default? Biden got that resolved without selling the farm or plunging our economy. We avoided the post-covid global recession that seemed inevitable. I don’t know if that was because of the interest rates. But that’s why they did it, and we didn’t have a recession. Polls show most people are feeling better about the economy, but Biden is still viewed unfavorably on economy.

ShepherdPie,

Republicans almost make us go into default every time there’s a vote on the debt ceiling with a Democratic POTUS. Our national credit rating was even downgraded last August and previously before in 2011 for similar reasons.

ShepherdPie,

Why would Netanyahu care either way? He’s currently allowed to slaughter an entire people and he’ll still be allowed to slaughter regardless of who wins the election.

FunkPhenomenon,

in less than 9 months? unlikely

Jimmyeatsausage,

Look at this guy… thinking we can go 9 months without a crisis

Dio,
@Dio@lemy.lol avatar

hm

MegaUltraChicken,

That’s great, hopefully he gets the message. Exactly how we should use primaries. That being said, the people not voting for Biden in the fall are ushering in a dictatorship that among other things will result in substantially more deaths in Palestine. Send a message, but stopping the GOP has to be the top priority.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Either Biden gets this message now or he will lose in fall. That’s up to Biden to decide.

It is overwhelmingly clear that this is going to lose him the election if he continues. This is his choice not the voters.

ThrowawayPermanente,

It is literally 100% up to the voters who gets elected president

catloaf,

Have you forgotten the 2000 election so soon?

ThrowawayPermanente,

Fair point, I did forget about that

dogslayeggs,

Touché, good sir.

distantsounds,

Not according to the DNC. Just ask Bernie Sanders. I remember 2016 & 2020.

MegaUltraChicken,

I worked on the Bernie campaign. He lost. Progressives didn’t show up during the primaries and he didn’t get the votes. It wasn’t rigged or stolen, he just didn’t get enough support from the voters that showed up.

distantsounds,

lol ok. I also worked on Bernie’s campaign and that’s not how I remember it. Don’t be surprised when Trump wins because Biden refuses to acknowledge the Progressive voters. It won’t be rigged or stolen, it’ll be on the DNC for not offering appealing candidate.

MegaUltraChicken,

So where did Bernie’s votes go then? Are you saying the results were wrong? Did the DNC prevent people from voting for Bernie during the primaries? The numbers would appear to support my position.

I don’t understand how you can say that Biden hasn’t acknowledged progressives. The IRA has a bunch of great climate stuff, he’s forgiven billions of student loans, and the NLRB has helped drive unionization efforts around the country.

distantsounds,

Do you recall? Fellow Bernie campaigner lol.

amp.theguardian.com/…/debbie-wasserman-schultz-re…

npr.org/…/bernie-sanders-dnc-emails-outrageous-bu…

MegaUltraChicken,

So you completely ignore what I wrote and posted articles about something I’m not disputing?

distantsounds,

So where did Bernie’s votes go then? Are you saying the results were wrong? Did the DNC prevent people from voting for Bernie during the primaries?

So are you going to ignore that the DNC itself is not Democratic? If the platform for choosing candidates is not representing its own voters and actively promoting its own self serving interests, your vote doesn’t matter. It is a sham. The DNC actively painted Sanders in a negative way and pushed both Clinton and Biden. Just like this primary where saying anything against the DNC’s narrative will get you panned. Yes, the DNC prevented people from voting Sanders because giving him fair treatment would have upset the corporate democrat mindset.

Where did the votes go? They are still available if you acknowledge the policies that make Bernie an appealing candidate instead of championing the low effort neoliberal stance Biden has to be pushed into.

QuaternionsRock,

I don’t really have a horse in this race (Bernie fan, never worked for a campaign), but

Yes, the DNC prevented people from voting Sanders because giving him fair treatment would have upset the corporate democrat mindset.

You haven’t really explained how the DNC prevented people from voting for Sanders in the primaries, and I’m genuinely curious.

MegaUltraChicken,

Okey dokey.

distantsounds,

Yeah kinda what I thought, you didn’t actually work on the Bernie camp lol

ShepherdPie,

How the fuck are people so angry at hearing this when this is exactly how we got 4 years of Donald Trump as president in the first place?

LotrOrc,

I do remember the democratic establishment hamstringing him at every opportunity in favor of Hilary, even though he had a wave of support the same way trump did.

MegaUltraChicken,

Yeah and I think that’s a fair critique of the DNC. I just don’t see any evidence that it swung the election. At the end of the day, Bernie could’ve won if more people voted for him. They didn’t, so he didn’t.

Zoot,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

Doesn’t really make sense to let him lose though if your goal is to end the horror in Israel. Only Biden will even attempt at a ceasefire, Trump will just let the area be obliterated.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

This your guy?

Joe Biden issues strident defence of refusal to call for ceasefire in Gaza

Joe Biden has presented an unapologetic defence of his refusal to call for a ceasefire in Gaza, arguing that Hamas represents a continuing threat to Israel and that Israeli forces were seeking to avoid civilian casualties.

FlowVoid, (edited )

That was three months ago. Try to keep up with the news.

‘We need a cease-fire,’ Biden says.

MegaUltraChicken,

OP likes to keep the goalposts on wheels. Makes it easier to spread their nonsense and support the GOP.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Oh wow, did he stop his weapons deliveries to israel? Put any pressure on israel whatsoever?

Or is he trying to win votes from people stupid enough to believe empty words?

andyburke,
@andyburke@fedia.io avatar

Based on news coverage, yes, this pressure is working and he seems to be pushing more to end the conflict.

Should he need the pressure? No. Would Trump be any better? No.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

This pressure? From today:

World Food Programme says northern Gaza aid convoy blocked

The World Food Programme (WFP) says its first attempt in two weeks to bring food aid to northern Gaza was blocked by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

MegaUltraChicken,

What specific changes to US policy has Biden made that departs from past administrations? What is he doing that Bush/Clinton/Bush/Obama/Trump wouldn’t be doing? And how would Trump improve that policy if he wins in the fall?

Specifics please.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Bush:

One of the most controversial moments of his single-term presidency was when Bush delayed Israel loan guarantees until it halted its settlement building in the West Bank and Gaza and entered a peace conference with the Palestinians, what would later became known as the Madrid Peace Conference.

Obama (Not much but it’s something)

In a rare and momentous step, the United States abstained from Friday’s vote, enabling the adoption of the first UN resolution since 1979 to condemn Israel over its settlement policy.

What’s Trump going to different than Biden that’s the question. It’s looking like two sides of the same coin. Maybe you can focus your efforts on getting Biden to change that.

MegaUltraChicken,

What’s Trump going to different than Biden that’s the question. It’s looking like two sides of the same coin.

This is how we know you’re full of shit.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

You very conveniently ignored the other evidence you asked for. Can you say that you were wrong about that?

Zoot,
@Zoot@reddthat.com avatar

Like how you admit you were wrong about Biden putting pressure on Israel? Oh, did that not happen?

dogslayeggs,

I like how you ignored the part about Trump doing much worse.

MegaUltraChicken,

Yep OP and others trying to depress Dem turnout absolutely refuse to acknowledge that piece because it makes it incredibly clear that they’re full of shit.

Thunderbird4,

You’re right. The alternative is much better:

Trump Backs Israel Bombarding Gaza: ‘Gotta Finish the Problem’

Balinares,

Obvious Russian agitprop is obvious. 🙄

webhead,
@webhead@lemmy.world avatar

Right. We should let the guy who said he’d kill the Palestinians even harder win. That’ll show Biden!

TheKMAP,

I’ve spent a decent chunk of time “influencing without authority” in a corporate environment and learned very quickly that people won’t do things that they are not incentivized to do.

The “story” you are telling is weak as fuck. You are effectively saying that Biden can safely ignore primaries because the rest of the party will vote for him anyway.

If you want the lesser evil to improve or be replaced, you need to let the greater evil win. Otherwise, why would the lesser evil actually change?

MegaUltraChicken,

you need to let the greater evil win.

The weak thing here is the person advocating on behalf of the greater evil. I’m amazed you were able to type that without immediately rethinking your position. Did you read it first?

TheKMAP,

We can still overthrow the greater evil after. The point is that Biden needs an incentive to change. If he doesn’t actually lose, there is no impact to him. He has no reason to change.

MegaUltraChicken,

And what about all those people that have their lives ruined by the greater evil? We’re just going to sacrifice them to send a message? That’s the only way you think you can influence Biden?

TheKMAP,

Not saying keep Trump, just let Biden lose. What’s your idea?

JonEFive,

How prey tell do you expect us to not “keep Trump” if Biden loses?

He was impeached twice. We couldn’t get rid of him. He tried to overthrow an election in a bid to stay in power. He actively encouraged an attempted insurrection in clear violation of the constitution and any number of other laws. But the Supreme Court says he can run again. Because he put his choices in the Supreme Court. We can’t get rid of him.

When you put him in power, he uses that power to stay there at all costs. He uses that power to make sure that he experiences no consequences for the illegal and immoral shit he does. And every time Trump avoids punishment for his behavior, he is only emboldened to behave even worse.

I think you’re too worried about sending a message to Biden, and not accurately reflecting on what that message might cost.

MegaUltraChicken,

You should do some research on how our elections work. Best wishes!

TheKMAP,

So you don’t have an idea.

FenrirIII,
@FenrirIII@lemmy.world avatar

We can still overthrow the greater evil after.

Spoken like someone who understands nothing about politics and America

Crashumbc,

Or the end of politics in America if Trump wins. Make no mistake he doesn’t intend to give up power if he gets it again…

ShepherdPie,

How is it possible for Trump to be all-powerful in the presidency while we should ‘cut Biden some slack’ because ‘he doesn’t really have much power to change things for the better.’

Crashumbc,

First, I don’t like Biden. He’s your typical old school slimy politician.

But this has nothing to do with him and what he can or can’t do.

This is about putting someone who ACTIVELY wants to make himself a dictator like Putin in this country’s most powerful position. If you don’t think he can do serious damage… Most politicians at least publicly act like they are following the rules Trump won’t. He’s literally telling everybody so.

And you think your plan to leverage this over Biden will get you anywhere, The ruling elite, want Israel supported at all costs. They don’t really care whether it’s Trump or Biden.

So you’re fucked either way. Only thing you can do, is stop an aspiring dictator from sitting in that chair.

But, this is wasted typing, because you’re too “smart” to see the bigger picture and think you are accomplishing something.

Daft_ish,

Dude, just let evil win. We will overcome it like we always do. Remember how we overcame the last evil that reared its head? Sure there was a human toll but what is that compared to being principled for a few months before terror sets in.

Jimmyeatsausage, (edited )

Well, after a few of these uncommitted votes, he started changing. They invited Gantz, the VP is making public statements about Isreal going too far, the calls for ceasefire are growing more urgent, and I imagine more is on the table, and we’ll see the administrations stance continue to harden.

By your own reasoning, we don’t need to let the greater evil win because we’ve already incentivized the desired behavior and are seeing change unfolding.

TheKMAP,

See now this is a solid reply. What would you do to continue that change after Biden wins?

Jimmyeatsausage,

Same as every day. Push left as best as can as the local level, keep volunteering for poll worker duty and funding candidates I fully support. This is a marathon.

ShepherdPie,

The desired behavior is “an invite,” “public statements,” and “more urgent calls?” That’s the change you’re looking for?

njm1314,

Jesus Christ dude open a history book. That ain’t how that story goes.

TheKMAP,

I agree, Americans are passive and uneducated

Psychodelic,

I said this in 2016 and I’ll say it again now: the sheer fuckin privilege on display here!

I mean, all you’re saying is fuck Mexican- and Muslim-Americans, and other minorities targeted by Trump, specifically gay and trans Americans more recently, because it might possibly, maybe make it so that your own personal political goals are easier to accomplish.

With little due respect, that opinion can go fuck itself in all its weak, moderate, selfishness.

TheKMAP,

Lmao I’m far from moderate. Also a non white immigrant but thx for the insight?

I literally called him the greater evil. I know he’s bad. I’m not saying we gotta keep em even for a day.

But I am saying Biden has no incentive to change. That’s actually all I am saying.

captainlezbian,

Or we’ll be decimated in a white terror

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

With effort, a protest vote might help get Donald Trump elected. Donald Trump literally stated that Israel should finish the job.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Joe Biden has pledged his unconditional support for israel and is currently proving it. What exactly is your point?

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

“Gotta finish the Problem”. That’s the words of the guy Gunning for the guy you’re hoping gets punished.

My exact point is that “gotta finish the problem” is objectively worse.

LopensLeftArm,
@LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

Oof that sounds uncomfortably close to a “final solution”.

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

That’s because Donald Trump is talking about a final solution.

LopensLeftArm,
@LopensLeftArm@sh.itjust.works avatar

Exactly, we need to do whatever we can to keep this monster out of power. The primary is fine for protest votes, but anyone who doesn’t show up for Biden in November is complicit.

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

I’m north of the border. It is fucking terrifying to see gleeful support for Donald Trump.

His rabid supporters don’t understand that their Republican ancestors literally crossed the Atlantic Ocean to apply boots to the ass of Adolph Hitler, who was the Donald Trump of that Era.

girlfreddy,
@girlfreddy@lemmy.ca avatar

As a fellow Canick I keep wondering if we’re gonna need the Bug’s meme to become rl after Nov. :/

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

JOE BIDEN IS LETTING ISRAEL “FINISH THE PROBLEM” TOO.

How about stopping the problem

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

I’m going to get very literal here. No on stopping the “problem”. Donald Trump is saying that the Palestinians are the “problem” that Israel should finish.

You probably mean that the IDF should cease fire immediately, and stop obstructing aid. Yes.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I am interpreting the word “Problem” as “Genocide”. How do we get the IDF to stop committing “Problem” instead of finishing the “Problem”?

By making Biden put pressure on them

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

Pressure is good. Threatening to have him replaced with someone who is objectively worse, is not.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

So why isn’t Biden putting pressure on israel?

Tell them to stop committing Genocide or he withholds weapons.

Or loan guarantees.

SANCTIONS

Biden isn’t doing anything. It’s all empty words about “be careful for civilians” for the last three months while he tries to send israel 15 Billion in weapons to do the Genocide with.

And the only reason we don’t have more Genocide is because the Republicans want to screw over Ukraine so badly that they are blocking the Genocide package for israel.

andyburke,
@andyburke@fedia.io avatar

You need to read news from more sources than here if you do not see the Biden administration's position changing and being affected by thess protest votes.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I need to see more results than what I’ve seen from the last two months of Biden telling Netanyahu to “pls stahp” while the IDF mows down starving people trying to get food

andyburke,
@andyburke@fedia.io avatar

Then get off your computer.

bradorsomething,

I like to believe you put on a little hat when you argue on the internet. Do you have a special little hat you wear when you do this?

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

They give those funny hats to people who support israel online

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c0294ab1-db9c-4355-a6e9-5ebdd61fdb04.jpeg

I didn’t get one.

catloaf,

A primary protest vote won’t help him get elected, no.

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

Depends on how many of those protest voters during the primary decide to stay home on election day.

catloaf,

Anyone willing to turn out for a protest vote in a primary is unlikely to be someone who sits out a general.

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

Hopefully, your assumption is laser accurate.

AlligatorBlizzard,

This. I’m a trans Minnesotan, originally from Florida, who voted uncommitted yesterday. I know what’s at stake. I’ve voted in every general election I’ve been able to, and I’m voting for Biden in November.

LotrOrc,

A protest vote in the democratic primary will not elect trump. Biden is still getting the nomination. This is a vote to show him that a large segment of his base does not like what he’s doing.

And it’s not just Palestine, though that is a HUGE part of it. He has not been a good president. He was the better choice in 2020, and he said he planned on being a 1 term president. He went back on that promise like he has on many others.

But having a Biden Trump rematch is absolutely ludicrous for this nation, and both parties need to get their heads out of their capitalistic owners assholes.

MushuChupacabra,
@MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world avatar

Every single person that you manage to convince to protest vote during the primary, will be more likely to stay home on election day. That’s good for team Trump, and they’d be in favor of anything and everything that makes Biden look weak, or anything that discourages getting the vote out.

This is shitty, leaves no room for nuance, but is reality nonetheless.

givesomefucks,

Don’t be pissed at voters.

Be pissed at Biden and his campaign team, it’s their entire fucking job to get people to vote for Biden

If he ignores his voters and trump wins, it’s Biden s fault, no one else’s. Just like 2016 was the fault of Hillary and the people propping up an unpopular candidate.

Voting uncommitted in the primary is the only way we have a chance of convining Biden to do the right thing

charles,
@charles@lemmy.world avatar

I guess we can ignore the bipartisan report on Russian interference in the 2016 election.

Omegamanthethird,
@Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world avatar

It’s both. You don’t get to wash your hands of that shit.

You are responsible for your actions. I didn’t like Hillary. I still voted for her. Everyone is responsible for their own actions. Anyone who decided not to vote for Hillary chose Trump. It shouldn’t have been a tough choice between the two. Hillary also shouldn’t have taken the presidency for granted. But nobody gets a free pass on putting Trump in the White House unless you weren’t allowed to vote.

If Biden ignores his voters on Gaza, it’s still a really easy decision on Biden over Trump. No matter what the topic is, Biden is a better option than Trump. Anyone not voting for Biden is responsible if Trump wins.

CoggyMcFee,

Seriously. This isn’t a business selling us a product. This is our country, and it’s incumbent on us to understand the stakes and educate ourselves on how the government works. These politicians campaign because they want to help their own chances, but it’s actually the citizen’s responsibility to decide the best way to vote and to show up at the polls, whether they get “sold” on a good campaign or not.

FoxBJK,
@FoxBJK@midwest.social avatar

It’s easy to send a protest vote in March. Let’s see how everyone feels in October.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

They are going to feel a lot better if the Genocide stops.

givesomefucks,

Ok Hillary…

Some of us remember the danger of running a bad candidate and telling voters:

If you don’t like the candidate, dont vote

We need candidates like 08 Obama, or even 92 Clinton.

At least give voters a charismatic neoliberal that can trick people into voting for them.

Orbituary,
@Orbituary@lemmy.world avatar

Or Bernie, 16. Dude got stolen from us. Never forget that the DNC is not a democratic body.

Dio,
@Dio@lemy.lol avatar

Nowadays, Bernie is to the far right as to the lot of you lefties.

givesomefucks,

Shits gotten worse.

I always said I’d be “blue no matter who” in the general as long as we had primaries, even after the DNC lawyers said they could interfere and it was fine because they could ignore results in 16.

But this year they took delegates away from NH for some bullshit only state republicans could control.

After NH went progressive over party favorite two primaries in a row…

We’re really fucking close to both parties just getting rid of primaries and announcing their picks.

And it’s terrifying not just that it’s happening, but that everyone keeps saying it’s fine and changes nothing.

It’s hard enough when one party is antidemocratic. If the only two options are, then were can’t even pretend to be a democracy anymore. It’s an illusion of choice where no matter what the rich get richer and everyone else gets fucked.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Friendly reminder that telling people to ignore Genocide and vote blue is going to make Biden lose the election. Put some pressure on that man to stop giving israel weapons.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/ce76d6e8-8210-45d3-9ab1-bcd542f3f185.png

But Trump

jwelch55,

You forgot the ‘still have genocide but worse’ step

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Unless Biden change it to “No Genocide vs Genocide”.

That would certainly make the choice easier for some.

MegaUltraChicken,

They always conveniently ignore that. They’d rather more Palestinians die as long as they feel good about themselves. It’s a completely bad faith argument and OP absolutely knows that.

givesomefucks,

That’s a Sofa King comment if I’ve ever seen on…

Neato,
@Neato@ttrpg.network avatar

Trump literally said to increase the genocide. Even IF the Biden WH was saying the genocide wasn’t happening, that would be better than active support for it. If you can’t see that then you probably need to take a step back,

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

And Biden said he would not allow Netanyahu to invade Rafah. What is your point?

FlowVoid,

He never said that, because he knows Netanyahu doesn’t need our permission.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Permission no.

Weapons yes.

andrewta,

Thank you for proving his point.

kent_eh,

“But trump” is valid, though.

He has proven to be more than willing to suck up to any global leader that he thinks is strong and powerful.

And has already given Netanyahu concessions in the past.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

That’s really cool. Maybe Biden can make it a bit more appealing for people by not sending israel weapons while they are openly stating they want to annex 3000 more homes in the West Bank. Instead of “Genocide vs more Genocide” how about “Not Genocide vs Genocide”?

distantsounds,

Didn’t Hilary basically run on “But Trump”? If we don’t learn from history something something something….

Varyk,

Nobody’s saying to ignore the genocide.

You can be upset about the Israeli genocide (although it would have been cooler if many of you were vocally protesting this 75-year genocide before 3 months ago), and still obviously recognize that Biden is the superior presidential candidate by every measure.

Tear Biden a new one, but the Israeli genocide doesn’t make Biden by any measure the lesser candidate in the upcoming election, his administration and their policies have helped hundreds of millions of people, both broadly and on the local level, economically and on the front of civil rights.

trump is a rapist who is in a bromance with netanyahu and said about the current Israeli invasion “finish the problem”.

If the latest israeli invasion is the only issue you care about, and I sorely hope it isn’t, biden is still the better candidate.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

We did the fearmongering thing in 2016, didn’t turn out so hot.

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/2c4561b9-94f2-4690-b2e9-99225587137d.png

How about appealing to voters instead?

Varyk, (edited )

There’s nothing fear-mongering about choosing the better of two candidates.

It’s how voting works.

Your point is invalid anyway .

If your 2016 fear-mongering is invalid, then it’s invalid.

If we pretend your 2016 fear-mongering is valid, then it proves itself invalid by 2020.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

In 2020 Biden actually tried appealing to voters with student loan forgiveness and abortion rights.

But instead of trying to get that passed he’s now trying to give israel 15 Billion in bombs.

dogslayeggs,

I mean, he did try to do $500 billion in student loan forgiveness but was voted down by Congress (both House and Senate voted to repeal it) AND by the Supreme Court (6-3 vote). Since then he has incrementally forgiven student loans to the tune of over $133 billion. That’s roughly 8% of the total student loan debt (including active students and students who just graduated).

So maybe don’t say moronic things like “but instead of trying to get that passed…”

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

He’s been focusing a lot on getting weapons to israel for someone supposedly trying to forgive student loans.

Did he compromise on the border spending for student loans?

Did he bypass Congress for student loans?

Did he not veto the UN ceasefire last week?

Varyk, (edited )

I agree that the biden administration should market their myriad beneficial achievements more, but just because the Israel-Ukraine war is the most salient global event right now, it doesn’t mean that you should ignore everything else his administration has done and the benefit of so many domestic and other foreign policies.

Again, it is fair to be upset that he isn’t immediately breaking one of the longest and most important US active alliances in a few months and involving the US more directly in this war, and you may righteously denounce this particular policy, but his presidential candidacy encompasses that and all other issues.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Wow that’s really nuanced. Israel is really important to Imperialism indeed. If we just ignore Saudi and Egypt existing which also have US bases.

Too bad some people draw a very red line at Genocide.

Varyk,

But they chose to wait for their entire lives that this genocide has been ongoing to draw that red line?

They’ve only decided to draw that red line right before this election?

Convenient timeline.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Yes the very moment israel is using starvation and as a weapon of war to commit Genocide while receiving weapons from Joe Biden.

Everything I wrote above is all a giant conspiracy. Nothing is true there right? Stupid propaganda people against Genocide.

Varyk,

This genocide and all of its horrors, including starvation and weapons from israeli’s many international allies, has been ongoing on for decades.

You’re catching the concluding chapter of an atrocity that has been going on for longer than most people’s lifetimes.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s history.

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I agree that it has been going on for decades but the death count of the current Genocide is higher than in the last 30 years combined. If Biden stops it now Trump can’t just “continue it”. Just like Trump didn’t let israel randomly Genocide the West Bank during his presidency.

Varyk, (edited )

Maybe and* instead of but?

I understand why many people would care more about more people dying at one time, but your comment makes it sound like it’s perfectly understandable why people have been ignoring the average of a few hundred Palestinians being massacred per year for decades, with tens of thousands more being wounded, and it’s perfectly understandable to ignore that until they were all killed at once.

I don’t think it’s an understandable oversight nor should it be framed as one, there have been stories in the news about israeli genocide every few months every year.

Rather than implying the relative significance of Palestinian deaths, I would look at the American media spin on Israel and Palestine and the role of open journalism and information technology as the reason people are finally paying attention.

That’s a heavy statistic, can you provide the source? Thanks

Linkerbaan, (edited )
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

I assume you know that the current amount of killed Palestinians in Gaza is 30.000+

You’re welcome to math this but I don’t think it’s getting above 30.000

Note that there are a few hundred deaths in the years between these conflicts by israel bombing Gaza, but seeing the very large gap it remains rather unlikely to push it above 30.000

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/3f1067f9-2758-4cdd-98cb-6a92ffe50249.png

Varyk, (edited )

Yeah, I was more curious about the past 30 years. I don’t usually jump to Wikipedia, thanks.

No, that looks closer to 8000 at a glance

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