I like how I specifically said in the video that the current charging infrastructure landscape is weird and that we shouldn't look to it as setting a norm, and yet I am still getting bombarded by Tesla apologists who think all automakers need to put the charge port where Tesla does to be compatible with their weird chargers with dinky cables.
@TechConnectify I wish EV designers would remember things like "electrons can flow up hill" and "we aren't limited to one charging port". So much of the design language of car charger ports is just slightly skewed fossil fuel injection holes. They could be so much better. In position, orientation, and number.
@jrconlin
Supposedly they aren't slow or inefficient because they can handle the voltage diff at the pad instead of the charger, iirc. @thomasfuchs@TechConnectify
@solarisfire Well... it is actually a little more difficult than you might imagine, especially with DC charging in the mix.
At best there could be another port which can only do AC charging, and you'll need a way to isolate it from the other port which adds components and cost.
@TechConnectify@solarisfire Wouldn't it be pretty straightforward to run that across the front of the car where there isn't much in the way? You could put the contactors for that in the middle.
@TechConnectify Denza does exactly this, their N7 has DCFC ports on both sides. Fun fact: To get the maximum charging speed of 230 kW, it needs to be plugged in on both sides. Otherwise it gets only 150 kW.
@TechConnectify@SigmaOne@solarisfire I also suspect you'd want some isolation in there too, so when charging on port 1 DC, port 2's terminals aren't live if someone managed to leaver open and access the connector. Because we are that stupid sometimes.
I’d say street charging is likely to be AC anyway so both sides AC one side DC could work. But honestly you’re right that passenger side makes more sense. Though I prefer front charging.
@TechConnectify That hadn't actually occurred to me, as my interaction with teslas has been in the UK when working on the IT setup for the power supplies on a building. And you're right, the charge port on the UK models is on the passengerside, because it's not moved between the different sales locations. It's only now popped up in my head that that would make it the drivers side in other countries
@TechConnectify the "cablegate" mess is the reason I don’t charge my non-Tesla EV at the European superchargers. Although I technically could, I don’t want to deal with Tesla-owners getting annoyed at me for blocking two chargers.
@TechConnectify The Zoe's solution of having it front and center is actually quite clever. Works for any situation. But the Zoe sadly will be discontinued...
@TechConnectify I use the Zoe in our local car sharing. Those cars don't get treated well, but I haven't seen the Zoe be out of order due to a fender bender. The charge port is relatively high up, so a minor bump won't affect it I think.
@TechConnectify somewhat reduced density angled parking could accommodate charging, but that's impractical on many streets.
With the amount of locations where street side parking is the only option, flexible/multiple charging points on cars as might have to become the norm regardless of the design and build cost challenges to accommodate "at home" charging
@TechConnectify It also annoys me at home. I always have to unroll a lot of cable just because the charge port is on the wrong side.
And yes, I could park backwards, but hen I have less space to open the door to get in and out, and also less quick access to the trunk.
@TechConnectify it's definitely an oversight for two-way streets in the US but many (maybe most?) other countries don't have the same rule that you have to park on the same side of the street that you drive on.
@TechConnectify My Kia Soul has the port on the front, and I kinda like it. It's perfect for pull-forward charging spots. My go-to fast charger is a pull-forward with the charger on the left side (driver side). The Chadmo cable is a bit short, but as long as I don't pull all the way forward it's not been a problem.
Most J-plug charges I've come across have much more slack, so the front placement has yet to be an issue.
@TechConnectify Ideally, three ports per vehicle to cover the potential needs/markets - one on each side rear, one mid-point front. Shouldn’t be that expensive to do, relative to the total vehicle cost.
@TechConnectify lord I hope not. Street parking needs to be torn out and replaced with trees, sidewalks, bike and bus lanes, cafe seating, literally any other use. Creating a permanent expectation of free car storage is awful.
@jcriecke In general I agree with you but there are still a lot of car-dependent places with nothing but street parking. Deciding what problem should be tackled first is difficult.
@TechConnectify
If the dream of gas station style charging stations becomes the norm there are 'design opportunities' You would either need a mix of charge ports ( driver/passenger ) or a central charge port location. The central location would probably be the best for all situations.
@TechConnectify I understand that with gas the location of the fuel input was clearly physically limited, but why not just have several charging ports at different sides of the car?
@sol_hsa There needs to be a provision to isolate them, so they can't just be wired in parallel. That's perhaps doable with AC, bit really tricky with DC. DC contactors which can handle that much current ain't cheap!
In the Netherlands there is lots of on-street charging (in many cities the electrical companies will just install a charger on request if there isn't one nearby), and there are frequently cables connecting on the street side as well.
These are mostly 11kW cables, so fairly thin and bendy.
That NACS plug doesn't look like it will need that much space that will make that very complicated.
@TechConnectify while it eliminates the ability to onstreet charge, it’s way easier for home charging with a 2-car garage. The charger will be mounted on the wall closest to the port. Onstreet charging is important for people who only have onstreet parking, but (nfortunately) I bet the car-owning population skews toward parking their cars off-street (suburban car dependent sprawl). Maybe a lot of HVDC chargers are an answer for city residents?
@TechConnectify I think as far as side preference I prefer driver side, because passenger side suuuuuuuuuuucks. With driver side I can look down and line up right with the island or whatever.
@TechConnectify I actually prefer the charge point in the front of the car. It makes is super easy to drive into the spot to charge. No awkward backing up into a spot.
@TechConnectify that’s one of the things I think the Nissan Leaf got right, the ports are in the middle on the front. Never been to a charger that wouldn’t reach from either side.
@TechConnectify what disadvantage do you see in a drivers side location?
I like it, it means I don't have to walk all around the car to unplug, and if I have the dog with me the charger isn't in the way of getting him out of the back seat.
@TechConnectify ah fair enough.
But, for street parking it's likely to be AC, so a bit longer cable isn't as much of an issue.
Now I'm curious about what % of cars are parked on the street vs driveways or garages / buildings...
@TechConnectify There's a weird aversion to norms and standards that we're established -- not because cars were gas-powered, but because they made intuitive sense. Gas stations have a passing lane so that lines aren't backed into the street because of a car with a massive tank, and the same would go for car with a slower battery architecture.
Frankly, I think McDonald's, Starbucks, Walmart, and Kroger are uniquely suited to tap into a new market with Fast Charge infrastructure, they would already have the geographic saturation and the employee base to handle such a move and they would see a jump in sales because people would spend 15-20 minutes in their business while waiting for a charge. It could pay for itself!
@TechConnectify My only hot take on this is that I really do wish the charge stations with longer cables actually had retracting mechanisms (instead of trusting the people who use them to neatly coil and store them which always results in a pile of cable in the middle of a parking spot).
@TechConnectify I'm following all this because I'm hoping the whole electric car thing will apply to my family one day, and because you often have interesting, real-world perspectives on topics that I don't get from reading articles or paid reviews. The one disappointment from yesterday's video was the lack of bloopers backed by easy listening public domain music. When the video ended, I started whistling the sax's melody line to myself. 😎
@TechConnectify I mean, I think I've actually seen cars that have had the charge port on both sides. I can't recall if you can actually use both at the same time, and it's definitely an additional cost.
@TechConnectify The probability assume that once the electrons get to the vehicle, they magically appear at the power electronics without any resistance. I’d hate to see the size of the cables a Ford Lightning would need in order to use a current Tesla charger.
@TechConnectify aren’t they on the driver side? That makes road side charging require the cable to go completely around the car. So stupid. My Kona and my upcoming MG have the ports on the front. I like that.
@TechConnectify yeah I've been thinking about it in the context of AC charging for street parking, that you talked about in the video. Wouldn't it be tricky to do if cars had the charger port in different places?
@TechConnectify The @EU_Commission is having none of that shit and basically mandated #Type2 connectors because those are an open standard and there are cheap means to have portable chargers that just plug into #IEC60309 outlets as are common in industry and even heavy duty outdoor electronics...
@TechConnectify And as sadly as the @EU_Commission won't adopt #IEC60906 connectors due to #eWaste I think they should make #IEC60309 mandatory for ekectric stoves and other electronics that require more than 230V @ 16A single-phase and ain't installed into the wall like some pass-through boiler/heater...
@TechConnectify Hell, makers haven't been able to decide where the fuel goes in on ICE cars for what, a century? My mondeo's used to swap the side of the filler with every model change!
@chloeraccoon@TechConnectify I haven't owned a car in a long time, so I'd rent every so often and that was the most annoying thing. Thankfully most rental cars had a little triangle next to the fuel indicator showing which side it was on.
Renting electric cars is always a fun game of "find the charging port" 😂
@notjustbikes@TechConnectify That's not most rental cars, that's most cars. On my current ones, even the low fuel light indicates the side with the filler on it when it lights up. As for EV, Nissan seems to be the sanest around here with the "behind the badge" location on the cars and vans. Nose in and it's equal distance from either side.
@chloeraccoon You'd be surprised how many non-retal cars in Canada didn't have it.
But yeah, I've noticed that most electric cars in Europe tend to put the port in the middle, on the front. This works well for most on-street charging, especially when you drive into a spot and the charger is ahead of you, but also when you're parallel parking and the charger is at the front of the spot.
It works less well when the charger is behind, but it's fine for AC charging, with the longer cables.
Add comment