Two years ago, the Gujarati politician who was sent to Lakshadweep to be its administrator, tried to ban beef, and replace all mid day meals with vegetarian food. This has less to do with animal rights, and more to do with anti-Muslim cruelty.
I don’t think western vegans or vegetarians understand at all what they support, if they support increasing food insecurity to some of the most malnourished people in the world here (India), and also okay-ing or playing down tremendous human oppression against minorities and lower castes, all in service of a diet they personally prefer. Asking the most malnourished people to cut emissions for the planet is not it. This is why I try to talk about this stuff here. (Read the entire thread)
@skinnylatte I wonder how things might shift if more western veg-types understood that their choices are representative of personal privilege, not universal morals.
@skinnylatte horrifying, tbh. Been vegetarian 2/3 of my life, with recent no dairy and I guess I don’t understand how whether the reasoning is compassion for living creatures, environmental, health, religion, or personal taste one can really think any of those beliefs hold up
Idk. Maybe I’m naive to think people want their beliefs to be reasonable or compassionate.
@moss Just feeling extra salty about this today because I literally just read someone say that all people of color should give up all of their cultural traditions for veganism, and that they are immoral if they do not
“Beef might be killing the planet, but in India, for reasons that have nothing to do with climate change or a balanced diet, beef can get a human being killed.”
@skinnylatte Forcing food insecure populations to change their diets is pretty heartless. It shows a lack of appreciation for the hunger afflicting poor people in many regions.
Is there any reason to bring up caste? I'm married to a Tam Brahm; I've never heard him or anyone in his family judge others on the basis of their diet. I've always taken the push for a less meat-based diet to directed at the planet's biggest meat consumers who live in the developed world.
@tobie1 I would urge you to listen to Vinay Kumar, a Dalit activist, to understand how Brahmins are the cause of food insecurity and extreme oppression. I’ve certainly been in Tam Bram spaces where my friends, who are not Brahmin, are not allowed to enter some homes and restaurants, because they are lower caste and therefore ‘pollutants’, so I feel pretty strongly about this even if it is invisible to foreigners.
@skinnylatte Brahmins are not the wealthiest caste in India by a long shot so I find it hard to believe that they somehow are exclusively responsible for food insecurity in India.
@tobie1 They perpetuate a caste system that continues to oppress and cause grievous harm to this day, including right where I am in California, where they oppose laws against caste discrimination. Vinay’s interview is incisive, and shows what it’s like for a modern Dalit in modern Bangalore right now, today.
@skinnylatte I'm afraid you and I will just have to differ on this. I don't see how a caste that represents 3-4% of the total population and of whom 55% live below the poverty line can be the sole source of food insecurity and income inequality in India.
@tobie1 Well in the first place, the toot that started all this, is a story being written about how non-Brahmin students in many Indian universities are not allowed to eat their food on campus.
@tobie1 They have also lynched and killed Muslims for rumors of meat eating. Well, not your husband’s family personally, but many, many incidents have happened including recently. So I find it impossible to need to defend anyone, or to say ‘not all Brahmins’.
@joesabin@lil_meow_meow I’m amplifying the voices of Dalits and oppressed people who are telling us that enforced vegetarianism is hurting them. I have lived among them for years and it’s not my battle, but it’s important that people understand that dietary control is a big part of rising Hindu fascism, not just a a nice and moral diet you pick. I advocate for people to eat less beef, but will support anyone in that context who decides that is for them.
@joesabin@lil_meow_meow That if you scroll up to the very first story linked, imagine what universe it’d be like if you are not allowed to eat veg food, bring your food to school, are actively shunned in ways like not being able to rent apts, live in certain neighborhoods, and be lynched and killed for what you eat. That’s the reality I’d like to point out every time sometime says ‘Indian food is so nice and veg’. There’s a lot of human violence involved.
To be clear, I was not disagreeing with you, rather stating the comment was a giant leap from the purpose as I understood it. You are not promoting beef, rather supporting those who eat it to survive.
@joesabin@lil_meow_meow I'm supporting the right for anyone who wants to, to eat beef without being murdered, in places where they might be. But yes, that too. Not even hyperbole here.
@skinnylatte Meanwhile, when India's Home Minister Amit Shah visited the state of Meghalaya, he was welcomed him with a 'Beef Protest'. Gotta love them Khasis 😽 Pic Circa 2015.
@sashin I urge you to listen to people being repressed by actual fascists using vegetarianism as a cudgel of oppression: https://vimeo.com/772187334
They don’t care about animals. And these people themselves also invest in the meat industry in businesses they support, while implementing cruel, anti-Muslim policies. It is NOT acceptable.
@sashin They’ll lynch Muslims and Indigenous Indians for supposedly having beef (it’s been done many times, including recently), but they’ll invest in meat businesses as long as it makes them money and no one knows
@sashin You cannot untangle the caste discrimination from this topic. (Especially when they have shown they’d rather starve children to death than let them eat eggs, the only super source of protein in Indian villages that is accessible to the poor)
This other episode discusses how vegetarians from the rich Jain community have been trying to prevent the poorest students in India from accessing eggs, therefore depriving them of much needed nutrition, and threatening to dismantle one of the most impactful food security programs in the world, the Indian mid day meal: https://www.whetstonemagazine.com/radio/bad-table-manners/episode-6
Jean Dreze, the Belgian Indian economist says of the mid day meals:
“egg vigilantism is not very different from cow vigilantism. It involves imposing your own religious beliefs on others, by force if necessary. The main difference is that in this case, it is a minority that is imposing its beliefs on the majority.”
Removing eggs from mid day meals also leads to absenteeism, which leads to worse economic outcomes for the poorest of the already poor.
I’m thankful for the lack of a retoot here because on the other place, usually when I post about stuff like this, BJP cell people start insulting me and saying it must be because I’m a dirty Chinese meat-eater that I post such things. To which I say, yes that is actually a fact, but I am quite clean.
@skinnylatte eggs and midday meals have been so beneficial to nutrition and learning outcomes. With a lot of data to support (so it's not just an assertion). But I think that's the issue that some gatekeepers have objections to (as is the case usually)
@skinnylatte the fundamental disingenuity shows in the fact that they want to slash the program, instead of increasing the budget to meet the nutritional needs with vegan options. I'm sure the kids would be indifferent as long as the meals are tasty.
Do they really want to starve the poor children, and use religion as an excuse? 🤯
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