@gruber GDPR does:
• Require active consent before tracking
GDPR does not:
• require interstitials or popups before viewing a web page
DMA does:
• limit the ability for companies that have a monopoly (or near monopoly) in one market from using that position to unfairly advantage them in another
DMA does not:
• “effectively ban” a social media app
Bad implementations by people who don’t care about users ≠ bad legislation
@dorigo@gruber I don't think the implementations are bad by accident.
They're bad on purpose. To trick/goad users into granting broader permissions than necessary, and erode support for data privacy laws so they will eventually get repealed/weakened.
@Gargron@gruber These cookie banners aren't even compliant with the law anyway.
Like you said, just don't include third-party analytics and you don't need any banners. You'd think somebody who peddles Apple would be in favour of that!
@Gargron@gruber that’s exactly the point. They wouldn’t even need to get rid of third party analytics, using something like Plausible (which is orders of magnitude better than Google Analytics btw) would be enough to get rid of that awful dialog.
@Gargron@gruber They HAVE to use third party analytics. Imagine trying to sell click tracking to an advertiser and being the only one in control of the data. Advertisers kinda want verification the stats are accurate. Otherwise, you’re buying possible snake oil.
@gruber yeah that’s pretty annoying. OTOH seeing you getting ratioed to hell in each post makes for a fucking awesome EU web experience, so keep going.
@gruber I can’t believe you are still beating this drum, if you want to make this about subpar regional regulations then i regret to inform you it’s the US’ (lack of) policies that made that necessary, how they let their companies do whatever they want, or “self-regulate” like you like to say over there, and let dark patterns snoop all kinds of personal user data.
I don’t know if you realize it or not but the EU web is like that because of the US web.
You are really disappointing me.
@gruber Funny. Every time I try to visit a US news website that redirects European IP addresses to a ‘Sorry, not available in Europe’ page, I think of a marketing exec apoplectically asking ‘But how can we possibly show them news articles without spying on them??’
The US Web isn’t much better — you just have no idea how much privacy you’re giving up.
@CyclingJourno@gruber well, publications could have gone other way, and then not have the cookie advertising. It is not the EU that ruined the web, it is programmatic advertising, which should be regulated as malware…
@juandesant@CyclingJourno@gruber That ignores the way most journalists earn a living, which is through target ads (ie, surveillance capitalism). Maybe it would be better if we all just paid for news (I do!) but most people are used to free and journalism is already a struggling industry, especially local journalism.
@gruber you buffoon. the adtech industry invented the plague of consent popups, not the EU. We will not win until the adtech industry is eradicated (and that includes facebook, and that includes threads)
@gruber The adtech industry is willing to go to any lengths including showing the worst possible popups in the user's face, in order to circumvent laws restricting their ability to collect and spread private information. The EU never said anyone should add any sort of popups to their sites but the legislators didn't anticipate just how gross ad companies can get.
See e.g. GitHub for a good example of how sites do not need any popups at all to function in the EU.
@vurpo The intentions of the GDPR are fine. I agree with them. But the practical results are unintended and obvious. It’s the results that matter, not the intentions.
You can really tell who uses vpn and who doesn’t. One of the first things I did was switch the country. And love the EU and their actual privacy rights, their consumer protections etc. Some of it helps people in other markets too.
It must be nice living somewhere without the level of regulatory capture we have stateside.
@gruber iOS also has permission prompts, but Apple always pushed developers to only show them when they become necessary (e.g. when you want to select a photo or enable GPS)
If web developers cared about their users, they would do the same and it would be 100% compliant with EU law.
@gruber meta’s tracking pixel is embedded in millions of websites. GDPR prevents illegal tracking without the users consent by Facebook all over the web for EU citizens. Tracking that is then used by meta in its products to target advertising.
@gruber
Much rather have these giant banners remind everyone that companies gather data. The EU has forced them to give a choice to the consumer and these unethical companies are doing the best they can to be as annoying as possible. This is not a EU problem, we are happy our government tries to protects.
GDPR cookie prompts are just one more shitty thing on top of all the other shitty things that websites do of their own volition.
Websites that care about UX can and do comply with GDPR without these annoying prompts. Websites that don’t care about UX wouldn’t magically be good if GDPR went away.
@gruber I don't entirely get the point here? You realise that since the GDPR there are tonnes of US sites (typically local news) that just display the "451: blocked for legal reasons" error code.
This is kind of a nice cookie wall, tbh?
@gruber Problem is not EU cookie rules - basic cookies, even for ads - are allowed, also those for login. Cookies that we still have to accept - are strictly for tracking & data mining purposes - they really don't have those screens, they want to have them.
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