@pixolin@davidho You could have spared us your unpopular opinion. SUV are are a blight in cities where they are a liability for pretty much everything. Parking, pedestrians, other cars, etc…
It is possible to drive between these without touching them, the driver was either not paying attention or unaware of the size of their vehicle, both of which several thousands euros is a small fee to be reminded of.
@pixolin@davidho well, it's exactly the reason why it's the right way. When you ask people to act reasonably, they don't care. When they have something to lose (their precious car here), they pay attention. Replace the metal poles by a kid, and I'm quite sure they would not give a fuck. "What was he doing here in the first place?", I can hear it already...
So… following your logic, let's put all bicycles directly into the scrap press when cyclists run red lights? Or at least let's destroy both tires. Why ask reasonably?
As a car driver my biggest night mare would be to hit and injure a child. Or anyone. Don't know why you think, I personally would need to "learn it the hard way". What did I do wrong, that you generalize?
>* discrimiation of road users by their age, income or sexual orientation
Wait, what? Sorry if I expressed myself incorrectly, but I don't understand the link now.
I have one single point: When you put a speed-limit sign in front of a school, drivers don't respect it. When you add a risk for them to damage their belonging, then they do. That's it.
@morganedesiv@pixolin@fla Also, as a regular cyclist, I'd like to remind you that if we start before the light turns green, it's primarily to avoid being hit by the car next to us that's going to turn right (or left for the uncivilized islands), as extremely few drivers watch their blind spots.
Thank you for that reminder, even if it has nothing to do with the points I raised.
Of course cyclists need additional protection in traffic and I never wanted to question that. I just don't believe that placing land mines to enhance awareness of evil car drivers is the right choice. I also wish, such discussion was possible without discrimination.
@babouille@pixolin@morganedesiv even when disagreeing, please stay respectful 😉
that's the reason why Mastodon is a nice please unlike twitter, let's keep it like that ❤️
@fla I'm with @babouille, civility can carry the most awful opinions and bad faith arguments, making aggressiveness in response entirely warranted for me to put a stop to a conversation that look civil but is anything but.
I'm at a loss to understand how this discussion managed to derail this far. Land mines? Sentry guns? How about we just recognise the dangers that already exist and try to mitigate those, instead of adding even more?
Speaking of derailing, maybe we just need more rails. Use trains and trams instead of cars in crowded areas. Those are very good at not hitting obstacles next to their track.
@pixolin You barged in this conversation talking about "respect for the property of others" about a public street improvement meant to limit the speed of four-wheeled vehicles in a city.
It was both awful and concern trolling, but more annoying than anger-inducing. None of your further replies dispelled my first impression. You could have taken your L and left this conversation earlier, but you kept digging deeper including with your "land mines" comment.
@mcv@hypolite@fla You know, sometimes you come across an opinion that's so outrageously extreme, you don't know what to say other than to outdo it in stupidity.
OK, that comparison with Land Mines was lame – I wanted to express, that it is not OK to damage cars (or any personal property) to enforce a traffic rule.
However, I feel sorry, this thread has become somewhat aggressive. My apologies.
@pixolin@mcv You've seen the picture, they are just immobile bollards on the sides of the road, they don't actively damage cars. It is of note that in this case they had to be reinforced because cars kept hitting them, which is entirely the fault of the drivers, nobody forced them to drive into them.
But since you're so concerned about the well-being of these driver's cars, why don't you suggest they keep them at home in their garage where no bollard will be able to damage them? Private property on private land, I will be the first to recognize that if anything happens to them, it's very wrong and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
@pixolin@davidhoI personally am not generalizing. In that video, you can see the speed of the cars. I'm quite sure there is a 20 speed limit sign. Just find a school in front of which there is the same speed limit sign, put a camera there, and compare the speed of the cars with the one of the video. How much faster do you think they will go? It's not a generalization, it's a fact.
Think about how close these people in motor vehicles are allowed to drive at speed next to people on foot, on bicycles, and in wheelchairs when they have no idea where the boundaries of their vehicles are.
@davidho A couple of decades ago a fission scientist said to me: If cars had just been invented now, like say this year, they would never pass safety approval to go into production - big metal cans zooming around inches away from people on foot - it would never happen.
@davidho Reminds me of something on here that made me look for tyre marks on pavement edges, which show that if they weren’t there the car would’ve ingressed on the pavement.
@davidho That was my thought on that. 😮 Seeing the problems some of those have to judge where their vehicle ends... those people should not be allowed to drive in it.
Most of them are off-centre because they don't really know where the right side of their vehicle is. It's especially obvious with the larger vehicles. If the bollards were a tad taller, there would be a lot of dinged mirrors.
@davidho
In Berlin they blocked off a (nowadays newly built) bridge that was unfit for trucks with two massive steelbar-clad concrete blocks (1x1x2m) - soon adorned with (paid-for!) adverts for car body repair shops.
Telling from the scrateches in the steel bars that did not deter ALL vehicles or drivers to try their luck...
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