You’re interested in tech and you want a nice home (or just any home) and stability? Go work at Google, Facebook, or some other surveillance capitalist.
What’s that? You want to work on free and open source? Sure, go work at IBM or Oracle… Oh… you don’t mean enterprise software? Tech to protect human rights/democracy? Not for profit hippie-dippie crap for the common good?
Oh, then suffer.
I mean, is it any surprise things are as they are?
@aral I was just joking with someone about this the other day. My software was used by movements all over the world to rally and organize for justice. I only was able to get out of debt and find some retirement savings when I took a left turn into VC-funded startups for a while.
And now here I am in non profit open source, and, well, those savings were fun to have while they lasted.
Initially sold a couple of flats we had in Turkey to fund our work but, when that money ran out, Laura started contracting for Stately (which is VC-funded) and that’s what’s keeping us off the streets currently.
We’ve been turned down for every EU fund we’ve applied for and I’m done wasting time with it.
So, yeah, we’re not directly funded by VC (nor would we be) but we’re still more funded by Silicon Valley than by the commons though everything we do is for the common good.
@aral Perhaps ironically, Elgg was doing really well when we were a British limited company with no investment. It all went to pot when we lost focus on customer-aligned revenue, when investors entered the picture.
So that’s how I’m thinking about these things these days. Open source at the center of a small business. I’m done trying to think about investors or non profit grants. I just want to find people who will pay for a solution, in order to underwrite software for all.
@aral part of the problem is that work outside large firms or vc-funded startups isn't valued by donors or the media. The director of a tech for "social good' program once told me I didn't have "experience working on real projects" because I hadn't worked for Google (despite their recruiters' best efforts).
That's exactly why i quit my job. I want to build something that gives people the opportunity to be creative without being beholden to an exploitative system rotten to the core.
I think it's possible. Perhaps i want to believe it's possible. But if its not, then it's still worth doing.
I am so fucking pumped to be in these conversations. ✊
@aral I’ve tried hard to find work that I believe in that still pays the bills.
I joined a cool company but it pivoted to adtech, then a cool company but it pivoted to crypto, then a cool company but it pivoted to AI. Each time leadership had to follow what could get funded. I’m looking again but I’m so cynical at this point…
Anyway, following these comments in hopes of an answer (or at least a good conversation).
@aral 1 more is, overall spying is a illegal or criminal behavior, with only 2 exceptions: in a critical relationship between countries for government and government and on job officers, not for any normal ppl; in a war situation between government and government officially announced, not for government served country's all citizen, unless there is a court order in track; other than these, should be sued in court and punished by laws.
@aral my dream is to have Computer Science courses in colleges talk about a career as a tech activist, or a programmer in the civic society as a very reputable and viable career option.
I work as a programmer supporting journalists and activists exclusively. I've worked for the IT industry in the first part of my career. In my mind and, really, in my body, these two environments feel drastically different.
@catileptic That would be great. It would, however, likely require colleges/universities to stop thinking of themselves as Big Tech’s human resources department.
@aral I was thinking in a small reply about legitimization, it is sad but it seems that working for big corporations is the only way to legitimate skills.
After reading the thread, I can only wonder if the answer also lies here, to make money within the system you just build on top of it, but to create alternatives you have to start by fighting everyone else with a slightly different point of view, including those that do not want to have strong opinions but just comfortable lives.
@me It’s sad. Because we need those alternatives. But I also cannot blame you. Nor would I urge you to do what I do given the first-hand knowledge I have of exactly what it entails. So, yeah, you’re right to do so.
@aral here my thoughts at concept level: it's not surveillance, it's spying, or worse to say as stealing or robbery, surveillance is authorized as ownership for their property security, or democracy process approved safety devices at public places (not any private things, and should with strict storage/access/release policy)
@aral Even when you look at open source or even free software (as in freedom), you see that google is funding them or that they are on github or that AWS is used... 😑
@aral For a while I’ve been working on funding mechanisms consistent with four-freedom licenses … but the knee jerk reaction to any sort of monetization scheme has been disheartening.
@aral I gave up on software and computer engineering because of this. I tried to find something but couldn't, and didn't have the financials to go into open source and start a company or product, although I'd love to work in a co-op, for example 😊
@aral So, a (not all that humble) suggestion, Aral, but a serious one:
Published author and security rights attorney Danielle Citron (author of The Fight For Privacy, see link below for her web site) would almost certainly be interested to find people trying to actively get involved with companies and software development efforts related to making things secure and stopping data leaks and abuse.
I'm not speaking for her, just making what I think is an obvious point:
@aral I'm a librarian. I teach in a university, in a newly-created division where the department I teach in was thrown in willy-nilly with CS and Stats.
DO NOT EVEN GET ME STARTED on how industry-controlled the division and its top brass are. It's MADDENING.
@AudraTran Hmm… if only we could crowdfund it somehow… you know, if we all agreed to pay a portion of our earnings so that they could be used for things that benefited us all. We could call it… I don’t know… faxes? No. Taken. Paxes? Nope, doesn’t sound right. Wait, I got it… how about taxes?
@aral one of the best career paths still is, and has been for the past few decades, is to start with IT consultancies of the world, get a good real world exposure, get beaten into some core SDLC processes, work with decent solutions and platforms (cloud, enterprise, foss, anything) and discipline, then go explore the world as you see fit.
Not sure what exactly you want to say and to whom with that message….
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