What are your thoughts on DNF (Did Not Finish)-ing books? Do you feel guilty about it? Do you worry you missed out on something? Or are you confident in dropping a book and reaching for the next one?
At what point are you most likely to DNF, if ever? What sorts of things cause you to DNF?
@skaeth@bookstodon I usually read several books at the time (for example one of poetry and a novel, or non fiction and short stories) so I don't mind when one of the two or three become my favorite. However, sometimes stories take a turn that doesn't interest me or change the rhythm. I usually try to get hooked again two or three times and if it doesn't work, I leave it.
@eco_amandine@skaeth@bookstodon I have no problem letting go of a book that doesn't engage me. If I have more than one checked out of the library I might put it aside until I've read another. Sometimes it’s timing and I'll leave it on my TBR list. Sometimes I'm frightened off by content warnings up front (this happened lately with an audio book). There are so many wonderful books to be read — more all the time — so why force yourself to finish one that isn't meeting your needs?#bookstodon
@bookstodon@skaeth so many books yet too little time on earth to finish them all. If I’m not enjoying one, my time is valuable so I will happily switch to something I find enjoying. I try to give them several chapters to change my mind but in the end, forcing myself to eat something I don’t like is the same. Push that plate away and get another meal.
@skaeth@bookstodon Some books I struggle with heavily, but I force myself to read to the end. Then I think about what I’ve read, and what the writer is trying to say. Usually, I end up being glad I finished reading the book. There’s only one book that I absolutely hhhhhate, and feel it was a total waste of time. It was a highly popular book.
Why would I feel guilty about not reading a book if I find I'm not enjoying it? Unless it's required reading for a class or something, a book is purely for personal pleasure. If it's not pleasurable, well, I have better things to do with my time.
@skaeth@bookstodon
I think DNF-ing a book is fine as long as you are honest with yourself as to why you couldn't finish it. I've DNF-ed books just because I wasn't in the mood for that kind of story, come back to them 2 months later, and enjoyed and finished them on the second attempt. But I've also DNF-ed books because certain tropes or themes in the book annoyed me and have never gone back to them.
Life is too short to waste on books that I'm not enjoying.
@skaeth@bookstodon
I give a book about 50 pages, and if I'm still not into it, I skip to the last 5 pages and read them, to see if it makes me curious to find out how the characters got from there to here. If it does, I go back to p.50 and slog on; if not, it's a DNF.
@skaeth@bookstodon
Certain authors have become known for killing off all the people you thought were important at the beginning... and there's a whole style thing I've noticed in murder mysteries of writing a chapter "prequel" for each character before getting into the story, where each of them muses about or runs from something they're hiding that might be a motive for them as victim or murderer, sometimes the style works, sometimes it doesn't.
That seems so weird to me, lol! I'm not sure I've run across books like that, except maybe in epilogues... Could be me not remembering some, or could be just the books I read!
@skaeth@bookstodon I think this is highly variable, even for the same reader over time. I am a big believer in DNF. There are thousands of great books we will never have the opportunity to read. I take lots of chances, veer completely out of my usual genres, and explore writers I've never heard of, and sometimes it pays off in the most glorious ways.
I'm curious as to how your book club experience goes, especially if you DNF while others continue, and how that's juggled or how often you encounter such a scenario!
@skaeth@bookstodon I like the concept of Nancy Pearl's rule of 50, I don't follow it to the letter, but the more there is to read and the less time I have left to read makes me move on to something more interesting.
I DNF with glee and abandon. I've DNFed on the first page. If I can tell that I don't want to be in a character's head, there's no earthly reason why I should stay there.
Reading is (for me) supposed to be fun. It's not fun if I'm hating every second of what I'm reading.
If I get bored, I'll just... wander off and find something I like better.
@skaeth@bookstodon It is a very rare thing for me to DNF a book. Mostly I finish, because I want to get to completion in my head.
There are only 2 I can think of that I DNF: Juliette by Marquis de Sade (A book so hideously awful and poorly written it was agony to churcn through the turgid, abusive work); and Prousts "In Search of Lost Things" (Life is too short. I think I did pretty well, in truth.)
@skaeth@bookstodon Yes and no. A book has to grab me, give me a reason for wanting to read it. But that is an emotional and speedy decision. So that is not highly selective, but if I have read the same story before (so many SFF works are telling the same story) I just won't bother.
In part because I'm also very comfortable noting down writing ideas I'm not ready to tackle. I think it's good to pick up books without feeling obligated to finish reading them. Sometimes it's a for later thing and sometimes it isn't for me at all.
If it seemed interesting I might point a reader to it who I think is at the point that they might enjoy it. I've successfully done this and the readers loved the books.
@skaeth@bookstodon I don't think book blurbs or reviews are always sufficient to gauge interest so I like sitting with a book and seeing if I want to read to the end. And sometimes I'll enjoy a writer's style but not the story they're telling. Or visa versa.
It's nice to be able to finish a book but sometimes we're looking for a specific book that we haven't found and the searching can be fun.
Yep, I love all of this. I especially love how you mentioned you've been able to help other readers discover a book that didn't click with you right then. That's very cool!
@skaeth@bookstodon I’ll usually get to about about 1/8 of the way through, depending on length, before I’ll put a book aside. No guilt though, because as often as not I’ll give it another try at some point when I’m in a different frame of mind, or I’ve read something else by the same author that I enjoyed (but I’ll be faster to DNF if it’s not clicking right away the second time)
@skaeth@bookstodon As for what sparks a DNF: the single biggest thing is writing style.
There are a couple of books I’ve tried several times over the years, because on the surface they should very much be in my wheelhouse, but I never got more than 20-30 pages in — it’s just too much work.
When reading feels like work, like a chore, I will absolutely drop it. I was so interested in Malazan, but within 5 pages I felt like I needed to be taking notes, so I dropped it.
@skaeth@bookstodon It's a bit sporadic because my interest in reading is dictated by my ADHD. But if I had to guess I'd say 60% I drop them. It doesn't matter if it's fiction or nonfiction.
@skaeth@bookstodon Oh yeah, if I'm trying to read about someone or something, and the author is a dry writer, my eyes glaze over and I stop reading lol.
@skaeth@bookstodon I have several books that I will never finish and I don’t mind. Usually when books make me so angry that it interferes with real life or with my actual mood.
@skaeth@bookstodon since I have scant reading time available I have little issue giving up on an unrewarding novel. It only bothers me when I have to start over on a book because life caused me to have to put it down so long that I can't follow the story when I can finally pick it back up.
Yeah, I hear you. I rarely re-read novels, but when I set it down and it's been a long time and then I read it with this fuzzy partial memory, that's weird. It bothers me too and sometimes I get impatient and skip ahead to where I dropped it, but I can't always remember enough to orient, either.
@skaeth@bookstodon I do not feel guilty at all not finishing a book. Life is too short to read books you don't enjoy! It's also not an insult to the author, not every type of book or writing style is for everyone. Just because I don't like a book I don't necessarily consider it a bad book, just one that doesn't match my tastes.
@skaeth@bookstodon things that make me DNF fiction are mostly stories and characters I cant relate to, a main character I actively dislike, a slow story, or totally unrealistic story elements (even sci-fi and fantasy stories should feel realistic for their worlds). For nonfiction, anything that is boring or poorly researched!
I agree with you on almost all points! I've grown to embrace the DNF, and I will drop a story for most of the same reasons. I don't mind slow stories when I'm in the mood for them, personally, but sometimes I want something quick instead of meditative.
@skaeth@bookstodon I’ve found that for most books there is a time it connects for me and a time it doesn’t. Things I liked when I was young that I’m not interested in now and vice versa. I don’t see any point in forcing yourself to run your eyes across a book when it isn’t speaking to you, you won’t get anything out of it anyway.
@skaeth@bookstodon As near as I can track it down while away from my books - "There is only one way to read, which is to browse in libraries and bookshops, picking up books that attract you, reading only those, dropping them when they bore you, skipping the parts that drag — and never, never reading anything because you feel you ought, or because it is part of a trend or a movement. ... 1/2
@skaeth@bookstodon ... 2/2 "Remember that the book which bores you when you are twenty or thirty will open doors for you when you are forty or fifty — and vice versa. Don’t read a book out of its right time for you". from her preface to a later edition of The Golden Notebook
@3DBill@skaeth@bookstodon Hmmm - that was a DNF for me in my 30s, I could try that book again. I did enjoy Lessing’s Canopus books back then - now I’m curious to see if they will still appeal.
@skaeth@bookstodon I'm a very impulsive reader. I can start a new book, read 20 pages, then switch to a different book, even though I enjoyed the first one.
I very rarely give up a book. According to my bookwyrm account I'm currently reading 17 books, not including a few that I set aside before I opened the account and just haven't gotten back to yet.
When I'm debating whether to stop a book permanently I feel very bad, but I get over it quickly once the bookmark is gone.
Oh,,,yeah I feel seen😅. Honestly my reading styles change like the wind sometimes. Largely it just depends on luck I guess, if I have a selection. I can try other books and see what I work better with. Try new authors etc. I like this method better.
I just don’t like to keep a pile of books out. It seems like people are reading more!
I am processing what I read last year a bit. So 🤷♂️
@skaeth@bookstodon "There is a sense of guilt when we leave a book unfinished." This very sentiment comes up time and again in discussions with our #SilentBookClub group. Kriti does a great job of exploring the subject.
@skaeth@bookstodon The DNF piece is very thoughtful and insightful. Thanks to you and Kriti for making other readers like myself aware ...
Silent Book Club is a no-pressure book club, where you bring whatever you’re reading or would like to read. After all attendees tell a little bit about what they’re reading, the group reads silently together for an hour, and then chats about their reading after the hour is up.
@skaeth@bookstodon That's the basic premise and format, which a pair of readers in San Francisco started several years ago. There are now 600+ Silent Book Club chapters around the world, with variations on how they run and how big or small they are. The whole story is featured on the https://silentbook.club/ web site, including an index of chapters.
@bookgaga@skaeth@bookstodon ta for this as it sounds like the type of book club for me as regular ones just don't seem to work for me... I'm too slow a reader to keep up! 🙂
@toran@skaeth@bookstodon At whatever speed you read, it's the right speed for you and for the silent book club near you. If you're interested, the main SBC web site lists chapters all over the world.
@toran@skaeth@bookstodon Oh, too bad. See if there are some further afield, and maybe contact them for advice - on either joining them or maybe starting a group of your own. (Over six years ago, our group had its first meeting with four attendees ... so, even a modest start can lead to a steadily flourishing group.)
@bookgaga@skaeth@bookstodon Thanks for letting me know of such clubs. Sadly the closest SBC for me is 1.5 hours drive away. But I’ve signed up for an online SBC meet up to see if it’s something for me. 😊
@madjo@skaeth@bookstodon I'm sorry there isn't one nearby, but an online meeting is the next best thing. And who knows, if you really enjoy it, you might want to start up a group of your own! The SBC web site and lots of us here and on other social media platforms can offer advice.
@skaeth@bookstodon
I finished college 50 years ago. "Moby Dick" was required reading in HS and college. I never finished it.
My mother's favorite book was "Angle of Repose" by Wallace Stegner. I did not finish it on a first attempt due to subject matter (going through divorce at the time). A few years later I started over, and was glad I finished it. I had better insight into my mother, and into myself by that time.
I read about 50 pages before giving up. I keep a list of "unreadable" books.
I dropped Moby Dick too, lol. I think 50 pages is plenty of chance to see if you'll enjoy a book! Your list of "unreadable" books-- are those ones you expect never to go back to, unlike with Angle of Repose?
@skaeth@bookstodon
Yes. These are "Do not bother, enjoy the reading years you have left" books. Sometimes I'll re-read a book instead. I think I've read "Silas Marner" three times (middle school, young adult before kids, middle age).
It's interesting how a read can change over the years, too, as you yourself grow and change as a person. I don't get to explore that too much as I rarely re-read. I typically remember too much of the plot and grow bored, but oh well-- it's not like I don't have a huge TBR to explore.
@skaeth@bookstodon The older I get (65) the more willing I am to DNF. Sometimes I will try again in case it just wasn’t the right time.
eg - I got about a chapter into Babel a few months ago but it didn’t catch my interest. I tried again earlier this week and realized about 3/4 of the way through that I just didn’t care what happened to any of the characters.
Interesting! And then it turned out not to be for you, once you gave it another shot. I still haven't gotten around to picking up Babel. I'm afraid it might be too dark for me lol
@skaeth@bookstodon not guilty at all. I’ve already DNF’d two books this year, sometimes they just aren’t what I’m looking for in the moment. Certainly not bad books, and I’ll most likely go back to them when I’m interested in it. I don’t really have a reading goal, other than reading every day so if I’m learning something, or just enjoying a fiction book then it’s good enough for me, forcing myself to read a book I don’t want to just turns reading into a chore!
@skaeth@bookstodon I used to push through books, but then I’d not feel like reading for months afterwards. Probably not the best approach if you’re wanting to read 100+ books a year, but I’m not one of those people haha!
I got to the point personally where I dreaded reading because I felt like I had to finish a book I didn't want to. I'd just not read instead, lol. That actually meant for me, though, my number of books I read per year went up when I began DNFing, even with all the ones I didn't finish. I don't read over 100 books a year, but it was an interesting thing I noticed!
@skaeth@bookstodon I worked a lot to give myself the authorisation to give up on a book but I still feel quite a lot of guilt when I give up on a book where people are giving a lot of good reviews. Last example, I felt that I had to force myself to finish « How to do nothing » and mostly finished it because of the positive reviews
I think the super popular books that just aren't sticking with you are the hardest ones to DNF. I sometimes wonder if something's wrong with me or if I'm missing something because I didn't like it or don't care to continue. Reassuring myself that this book just wasn't written for me and that doesn't mean it's a bad book or that anyone's wrong about how they feel has helped me a lot.
@skaeth I have only intentionally done that once (I have a number of books that I intend to get back to, but probably never will). I am mad at the book - I invested 45 minutes before throwing it down. It was a fantasy book with a great world build and setup - except I concluded that if the next page switched to a Vogon telling telling the rest of the universe that everyone on the planet was like that and switched to some science fiction about building a hyperspace bypass the whole would be improved.
Otherwise if I invest the time to read more than 2 pages I want to finish it.
Even setting a book down and planning to come back to it later is sort of DNF territory I think-- I think it fits, anyway! What will get you to DNF-for-now?
@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon Ooh that's an interesting take. A bit surprising to me, actually. My understanding of DNF has always been to stop reading with no intention of ever coming back to it.
There have been many times I stopped reading a book temporarily because it's not what I was in the mood for at that moment or because I got too busy with other things in my life or so on - sometimes even because the book is good enough that I want to save it for a time when I can properly appreciate it - but I planned to come back and finish (or reread it from the beginning) later. It just doesn't feel right to tag those books with the stigma of a DNF label.
@diazona@bluGill@bookstodon
I think typically DNF is like you said above, but I think DNF-for-now is adjacent enough that it can add to the conversation! After all, you're still hitting a point at which you set the book aside in favor of something else, instead of continuing. I used to be unable to allow myself even that, because it felt like a failure.
Now, I'm a lot like what you described. I love your inclusion of setting a book aside until you can fully appreciate it though-- great point!
@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon Ah I see. I dunno, I just feel like there's a huge difference between DNF and DNF-for-now in terms of what it says about the book.
FWIW I've never been one of those people who had any trouble setting aside a book temporarily. Reading a book cover-to-cover all in one sitting is just not done, in my world. (Unless it's a super-short book I guess.) At a minimum I have to stop at some point to, like, get food or something. And I can't bring myself to find much of a meaning in the distinction between taking a half-hour break to eat, or taking a 10-hour break to go to work, or taking a 3-week break because of various other things I have going on in my life, or so on.
I think that's still a fair position-- I can see your point of view!
Do you read multiple books at once, or only a single one at a time? I tend to read one fiction book at a time, so dropping it in favor of a different book even with the intention of trying it again later was still a huge change in mindset for me. It might have been different if I was the sort of person prone to reading multiple books at a time.
@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon Usually only one at a time for me, although sometimes I'll have two going at once if they're different genres. At least, only one (maybe two) at a time actively. It does happen that I'll put aside a book temporarily and read another book in the interim, especially if the one I put aside is one I expect to be really good and the other one I pick up is less good.
BTW this is a very interesting discussion, thanks for starting it 🙂
When you put a book aside planning to get back to it later, do you normally follow through on that or does it sit in limbo? Do you normally borrow or buy? I'm curious if there's a correlation with DNFing.
Thank you! I'm quite enjoying this discussion myself, though all credit goes to Kriti (even though she's not here) for starting it in the first place!
@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon Good question - yes, I usually do follow through with finishing books later. I'll typically get far enough into the book before putting it down that I'm invested in finding out how the story concludes. But I don't necessarily know, at the time of putting the book down, when I'm going to come back to it. (in rare cases it takes years)
I'd say I use a mix of borrowing and buying to get my books, although a lot of them I actually get as free ebooks from promotions by Barnes and Noble, so I don't know if that really counts as either! What I can say is it's quite rare I'll spend money to buy a book unless I know I really like it, or I have a very strong expectation of liking it based on other work by the same author in the same genre.
That makes complete sense to me! I often borrow as well, either through my library or through KU (although I have been considering dropping the KU subscription in favor of Kobo Plus). I get lost in my digital collections far too easily and I only have so much shelf space, so buying books for me is more rare than borrowing. I very rarely re-read anything, so there's not much use for me to keep a book around after I've read it.
Neal Stephenson, man! I enjoy many of his premises but he goes into so much detail I'm impressed and intimidated and boggled all at once lol.
So you usually read all the way through, then, sounds like? Are you choosy about the books you pick up, then, since you're likely to be sticking it out to the end?
I like Stephenson's writing, but every one of his stray thoughts don't deserve an entire chapter. I could have done without the Bobby Shaftoe with MacArthur sequence in Cryptonomicon in favor of a lest abrupt ending.
@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon After revisiting Cryptonomicon and the last 2 @GreatDismal novels, I can see they both write chapters as puzzle pieces. You read through the book and your brain puts it together to make the story out of the parts.
The thing is that Cryptonomicon seemed to have a lot of puzzle pieces unrelated to the story which just made the puzzle bigger. I love how Gibson has this approach down to "just enough".
I'm usually pretty choosy about what I read. I spent a while investigating what versions of Don Quixote (Rutherford), The Iliad and Odyssey (Fagles), and Ulysses (1961, Vintage Publishing).
Right now I've been working on reading the books that many were forced to read in school. I just finished the revised edition of All the King's Men and I'm starting Watership Down.
I'm finding a correlation between the people who mention they tend not to DNF and also being more choosy with what books they pick up, and I think that makes a ton of sense.
What sparked you to start reading books normally read in school? Are you enjoying it?
I managed to get through high school without reading a lot of the usual books. I would see allusions to classic literature, and I felt like I should know what they are.
I think that I am enjoying these books a lot more now that I would have if I had been forced to read them as a youth.
I think the being forced to read a book really kills the desire to read it, or at least it does for me. I meh'ed so many of the books required for me in school (though my English teacher was amazing at sparking an appreciation for Shakespeare). At least in high school I was given more freedom with what to read-- I read Jane Eyre, For Whom the Bell Tolls, and started Moby Dick but dropped it, all because of high school English assignments, but on my choice.
I've been trying to work through this list with a sprinkling of other recommended books. Although I do not have any plans for reading Finnegan's Wake after reading Ulysses.
● The New American Bible, Revised Edition†
● Human Acton*
● Atlas Shrugged*†
● The Canterbury Tales
● Ulysses
● The Once and Future King
● The Illuminatus Trilogy
About 30 years ago I was a libertarian. 😬
† Needed a more competent editor.
Oh, but I see The Once and Future King-- TH White, right?-- and now I need to pick your brain on your thoughts because I adored that as a kid. Absolutely loved it.
I read that book back in the 1970s, inspired by D&D and Monty Python and the Holy Grail, and the film Excalibur. I regret that I don't remember much other than it was a very difficult read.
It's definitely an unusual style with older prose, if I remember correctly. But yeah, I love King Arthur stuff, but that one really kicked my love of King Arthur into high gear.
A good indication for me to DNF a book is if it feels like homework. If I'm just reading it to finish and be done and I'm not getting anything out of the book, then I may as well just move on. Shadowland by Peter Straub -- which some have recommended as his best work -- was like that for me recently.
Yes, I stop when I'm just no longer interested. I don't mind if I'm angry or whatever, but I need to be invested and want to continue. Otherwise, I step away.
I think it'll depend on how much you like modern prose and story structure. If an older style feels stilted and confusing to you, (totally fair!) The Once and Future King might not be enjoyable.
I may have been too young to enjoy it. I was too used to reading Lord of the Rings, The Silmarillion, Elric, Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser.
From certain reviews I've consumed, I need to re-read Wolfe's Book of the New Sun. I enjoyed them well enough, but I suspect that I missed much when I read them in the early 1980s.
@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill I read the LOTR trilogy when I was in college around the time the Peter Jackson movies came out. Holy crap were those books dry, but I managed to get through them.
@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon It took me three years to finish The Beak of the Finch by Jonathan Weiner. I loved the first part so much that, when the next section took a different approach, I put it down. I intended to finish and I intended to get back to it sooner, but … <other books>.
Yeah, sometimes books take a right turn and end up being something completely different than what I thought! Sometimes that works for me, but sometimes it doesn't.
@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon When I was younger I read books all the way through. I think DUNE was the first one I picked up and didn't finish. It took some years for me to come back to it and finish it. Now more and more stuff gets tossed into the DNF pile. If I'm not hooked by the first chapter, it's deleted from my Kindle. This replaces browsing in the local Borders or B&N and reading the blurb on the back of a new book on the SF table. I'm usually suckered by Amazon's blurbs into buying a book.
I have authors I've banned because of their writing or how they treat their characters. Anything with abuse or overly explicit violence gets banned. I won't read Victoria Swann because of 1 chapter in a novel. Exadelic by Jon Evens has ritual abuse and I'll never read anything he writes.
Yeah it's definitely helpful knowing what is a hard-pass for you for reading! Dune was a slog for me too-- I honestly can't entirely remember if I finished it or if I know the ending from the movies. I did not continue the series, I know that for sure.
@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon I stopped at God Emperor of Dune. But I read all the supplemental books by his son (House Harkonnen, House Atreides, etc.) to get the backstory that the original books never talked about. They weren't the best reading but there was enough there to keep me going. All through them I kept asking myself "When will this get better? This has to get better."
This is one instance where I'm curious to see what Apple TV does with the Bene Gesserit origin series. Like most of the Apple TV stuff it won't be like the book. In this case, I'm counting on that.
@mvilain@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon ooh I didn't know they're doing a Dune series, that's great! I've loved all the sci-fi series they've made. I didn't like the Foundation books but love the Apple series.
@Jennifer@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon Asimov's original 3 Foundation books were of an era. I really like what the writers did with the original material and turned into something much more cohesive.
With THE PERIPHERAL, writers took elements of the book and built their own story with bits. It was OK.
With PERCY JACKSON, the author and screen writers took the material and updated it. They found a fantastic cast to bring it to life. Same thing happened with Netflix's SANDMAN.
The Bene Gesserit origin book explained how ordinary humans could fight the Titan Cyborgs during the Butlerian Jihad. I wonder when they taught the Litany to cats.
Yeah I love what they've done with Foundation so far as I've watched (I'm not caught up). It's really working for me. I loved Foundation when I was a kid, but I grew up and realized there are lots of things I don't like. Apple's series has sort of grown Foundation up too so I love it again.
@skaeth@mvilain@Enema_Cowboy@bluGill@bookstodon LOL I tried to read Dune years ago and DNF. I tried again after the movie came out a few years ago and uggggg I just don't like it. I loved the recent movie!
@Enema_Cowboy@skaeth@bluGill@bookstodon for me, it was both Anathem and Quicksilver. Quicksilver was right in my wheelhouse, but it took me forever to read because every few pages something would send me down another Wikipedia rabbit hole. Ironically, I own the whole series in hardcover, and never even opened book 2 & 3
Do you think those books would look okay in a Kindle format? Some books that have a lot of maps in them are difficult to read on a Kindle device (Oasis).
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