Strangers offering unsolicited advice or derailing conversations should be familiar to all who use social media. In our new #Mastodon for Android update, we’re testing a new feature aimed to curb these behaviours:
@Mastodon It's good to see that there is genuine intention to continue improving Mastodon. Genuinely curious to see what effect this feature will have.
Realistically, a reminder to be nicer might work on someone replying impulsively, but quite a few people online feel entitled to responding to strangers without a filter to their language or aggression, and it's doubtful that this will have much effect on them.
From a glimpse, there are enough irritated and angry replies to this post alone, about this feature, perceiving it as seemingly something that polices how they use social media, to make one question if it'd stop the same people from responding in an aggressive way.
Beyond that, quite a few people are not aware that their unsolicited advice or comments are a form of microaggression, so they still believe that they are being nice, reminder or not.
I'm gonna second all the other people suggesting that a way to not allow replies, or control who replies, would be a welcome feature that people can opt-in or out from on an individual level, as it overall allows for more control.
Pragmatically, I don't think any of us expects to completely eliminate unwanted replies when posting publicly, but any option to limit them is a good step forward, especially when it comes to making social media more welcoming to minorities and marginalised groups. So it's good seeing this conversation happening.
@Mastodon Honestly, I feel that if someone doesn't want unsolicited advice, they shouldn't be publishing their thoughts in a public forum. If they're just communicating with a small group of friends (which of course is perfectly reasonable) there are places to do that in a much better way. Here ain't there.
While soliciting feedback on this feature I would love to be able to add a note like on Fetlife such as "I blocked this person for using or supporting this feature"
@Mastodon this is awesome, have you thought of letting people customize the prompt for folks replying to them? I think different folks have very different issues they seem in their replies
@b0rk This has been discussed but it requires backend / federation changes, so for now this is not customisable as it allows experimenting with the feature quickly.
If the results are good and we find the best form for this feature (it will most probably evolve), then we might do it.
@renchap@b0rk Another idea to consider is showing the profile text of the person being replied to. There one could say things like "Read my FAQ before replying." or "Please no advice unless I specifically ask for it."
@Mastodon People who complain haven't noticed that they are actually using an open platform and write their posts on a public wall or scream it into the woods. If someone replies they get annoyed. Why then, I wonder, don't these people limit the audience by picking the appropriate toot level?
@Mastodon@Gargron I can already tell you that this feature annoys me so much that I'll change the app.
"New connection" is nice, if you can disable it and when disabled, it makes no more sense.
"Age of post" is exactly the patronising style of Mastodon so many people don't like. Without algorithms, I can answer when I want to older posts. It's my decision and I'm an adult to do it alone. I appreciate that people comment on my older posts so much!
More clicks. It gets more complicated.👎
@NatureMC@Mastodon@Gargron Here's the thing: Not everyone is like you. I do understand how this will sound condescending to many. On the other hand, there are plenty of people (me included often enough), who either are inattentive, self-absorbed or just in the wrong mood that they reply to things on the worst manner possible.
Being a small inconvenient hurdle is the point! It's trying to force people to pause for a second and maybe reflect before steamrolling with their opinion.
@NatureMC@Mastodon@Gargron I'm pretty sure, even you, who's thinking "can't be me!" did this at least sometimes.
I had plenty situations (last week was the most recent), where I wished I had thought through this at least a bit more before sending a reply. Last time even was worse, because I was self-aware of what I was about to do, but failed to make the right decision.
I would profit from this solution.
"We also believe that by showing a bit of information about the person you’re about to talk to, we can prevent some awkward situations, such as explaining something to an expert in a given field."
@Mastodon And who will certify, or verify, the expertise of each one of us? Besides, folks can talk without been experts, it's called conversation and I thought it was the purpose. Anyway, I forgot we shouldn't interact with people we don't know, my apologies :-)
@pmroman@Mastodon The way I see it, it isn't about not interacting with someone you don't know, but remembering that it's a different thing talking to a stranger in a blunt tone vs. someone who you've already interacted with.
@TFFPrisoner@Mastodon And why would I address you with more, or less, respect than I adresse someone with whom I've exchanged previously? But yes, I get your point.
@pmroman@TFFPrisoner@Mastodon Sometimes I forget that I feel like I know someone I follow but that person doesn't know me, because the person doesn't follow me. It's good to be reminded of that before I start a conversation in a too familar tone.
You can still contact everybody and write whatever you want. Simply ignore the reminder or use an app, that doesn't have that feature if you don't like it. I like it.
@kaffeeringe@pmroman@Mastodon You could say it attempts to replace (or remind users of the lack of) the kind of cues you have in direct interaction like facial expression, body language, use of personal space... all of those are missing from online discourse.
so you’re all „strangers“ to me. Should I even dare comment? Let’s say I’m new here, and I get this warning: „Careful, you’re about to talk to a stranger! Wait, that post you want to say something nice about is old and cold!“ Oh, you’re not supposed to do that here? Okay, I can turn the warning off (aka „mark as read & understood“) but…
… I heard it, and I’ll keep it in mind: don’t do these things. The facial expression and body language of Mastodon would look really unfriendly with this feature.
Trolls & reply guys won’t be bothered, but kind and gentle people will be put off. They already are now, just reading the announcement.
2/2
I think of myself as a kind and gentle person and I'm thrilled to see these nudges. I think generally, most people don't want to do harm to others, and if they do it's because they weren't being thoughtful. Sometimes people just need a reminder.
@kommaKucken@TFFPrisoner@pmroman@Mastodon I don't think, that most people want to be rude. But sometimes it happens, because we read a situtation wrong. I like these nudges. I am afraid, I was regarded a reply guy once or twice. I don't like these situations. And I like that the apps tries to improve conversations.
If someone's bio says something like "head of software engineering", it's probably not a good idea to try to "explain" something like git to them - they will 100% already know and it comes off as patronising.
Same if you try to "educate" someone on a topic like law, but actually they're already a lawyer, so your legal 101 is not helpful.
@mattswift@Greengordon@Mastodon I see, so a self-declared expertise as stated in their public bio. I don't like the idea, I think many people do not mention their expertise in their bio, for many different reasons. I worry we're making things too complicated attempting to resolve an issue I haven't seen mentioned in the time I been in Mastodon, but I reckon my knowledge is purely anecdotal.
@annika@mattswift@Greengordon Could you, please tell me why? this is something affecting all those of use using the app so me commenting is perfectly fine, I haven't been impolite nor disrespectful, I don't present my own anecdotal information as anything but anecdotal. Sorry, I don't understand your objections.
@pmroman You've made a number of posts misrepresenting the feature while admitting you aren't even the target of the posts it's trying to mitigate. Not helpful.
@marathon@your_huckleberry I don't think that's the point of this feature at all! It's intended to gently remind people to keep discourse civil, not to prevent it from happening. It's not saying you can't comment, it's just saying you should do so respectfully!
I really don’t get it. If anyone has a problem with strangers reacting to their posts, they can choose visibility to be „followers only“ and they’re all set.
(And if they just have a problem with occasional comments by particular strangers, they can mute, block or even report those. Most admins are brilliant. Big shout out to all you admins keeping your instances safe!)
Tone-policing every single user? I can’t believe it.
@nellie_m@pmroman@Mastodon That's true! But some people get so many replies and comments that personally moderating their comments becomes a huge burden. It could turn them off from participating here. Think of reporters or other public figures.
It's not that these people have a problem with strangers commenting on their posts, it's that they have a problem with people approaching them in bad faith, or disrespectfully.
@Mastodon I fear this may reduce interactions further. I have already noticed a hesitancy to interact with others, and an additional step will only confirm and reinforce that hesitancy.
Also, and I'm not sure how to say this delicately, but if a person needs to be consistently reminded of appropriate behaviors, they may not follow that advice when it's offered.
Is it relevant that you're talking to a stranger when replying to a post? This is social media and the whole point is to interact with strangers. As to bios, I pay very little attention to them. Far more telling is what people actually post. It's as if you were at a party and handed out a CV to every guest. That wouldn't be a very good basis for interesting conversations, and the other guests would probably think you were a little weird.
@Mastodon Ok, so already here I am agonising if I’m ok to reply here (even set to unlisted), despite you actively encouraging replies/thoughts. Overall, I’m tending to feel negative on the idea of behavioural nudges on my posts that are set by others. I mostly actively want people to feel free to chat with me; I’m mostly shouting into the void too much already. Putting people off from chatting or raising something just slightly peripheral is too much for me.
@film_girl@Mastodon Totally. And just showing the face and bio of the person you're replying to is one of the first suggestions I made when I got here. Could be very powerful.
I am finding some of the comments on this thread so hilariously on-the-nose that it really makes me wonder whether the people who might benefit from these features are the ones who would never use them.
@Mastodon tbh I though it's gonna be some awful moderation thing, amd now every controversial thing youbsay will be banned or smth.
But this is a great solution.
@Mastodon So fresh insights on intractable problems are to be censored. That seems appropriate. Our betters do have things right usually and to interrupt their hegemony would be counter productive.
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