Talking to a friend yesterday: I’ve personally had the privilege to live in and potentially emigrate to many countries, including the ones Americans say they want to move to (considered Aus, Finland, UK, France and Germany previously) but still landed on this one because: despite all of America’s warts (and there are many) it is still by far a place one can aspire to build a life without being an immigrant forever.
That was important to me. I try to remember this whenever I am mad at it.
I’ve also experienced racism in every single one of those countries, including this one.
But this one has been the only one where people say ‘yes this country sucks’ and ‘we need to do better’ and ‘you can be a part of it’ instead of ‘what? Our country is not at all racist! You should leave if you don’t like it’ (which has been my experience in all of the other countries listed above). That counts for something.
It should also be noted that the degree of economic opportunity the US offers to most people is not matched at all even by any of these other rich economies. There’s just no competition on that front.
So even tho it sucks in many ways, it still makes a lot of sense for most. As someone with a strong passport from a rich country, the US (and even then only CA) was the only one that offered better opportunities. Getting a good job in those other places even as a ‘skilled immigrant’? Not as much.
Related: most Americans who dream of moving to these other places (especially in times of political turmoil) will probably find that unless you marry a citizen of that place or go to school there, there are vanishingly few opportunities to actually live there legally.
Personally, I am skeptical of the digital nomad path that many are taking, and don’t think it’s possible to live in say, Spain or Portugal long term without a U.S.-paid job.
@skinnylatte (I know a married couple of Americans here who took tech jobs, but that's pretty uncommon, and the paths you mention are more common.)
Re "we need to do better" and racism: in Germany that's the sentiment Aryan leftists express when other Aryan leftists talk about racism. Then when I say something they all well-actually me that I shouldn't call Neukölln a community of color because it's 70% German citizens and police how I talk about the Holocaust.
@Alon Well I think also that well funded European startups are increasingly rare now that the market is what it is. So like, unless you work at Spotify or something, it’s a rocket internet clone type company where it isn’t that interesting and the money is a fraction of what you’d make here. So you have to really want that lifestyle change to do it.
@skinnylatte Yeah, I should say, these are people who moved in 2017 or 2018, after Trump got elected; Berlin was awash with startups that try to imitate the US, and to an extent still has crypto firms. Wages are higher than is typical for Germany but a lot lower than in San Francisco, but also rents are something like one third as high as in SF.
@skinnylatte after doing fairly extensive research into it, my conclusion was that the only place I could really emigrate to without major hardship—absent becoming a billionaire, of course—is Israel, and that’s only thanks to being Jewish…
@skinnylatte That’s really interesting to hear (as well as the rest of your thread) and I’m glad it counts for something. Sure we’re in a bubble here and there are plenty who will tell you that we aren’t a racist country, but I’m glad you feel there is a better path forward for you here.
@skinnylatte yeah, if the US has one good thing about it it's that it's a fucked up country that knows that it's fucked up while most Western European countries are equally fucked up but in complete denial. A lot of Brits are somehow still convinced that they're more progressive than people in the US even though left-wing media in the UK occasionally comes off like the National Review
Acknowledging the problem is the first step, I guess
@skinnylatte as Reinaldo Arenas said, maybe they both crush you but in one you're allowed to scream and under the other you have to applaud, and sometimes you want to scream
From my perspective as a Black trans US-American who has lived here for all of my 53 years, lots of people, including liberals, really do think this is a great country and willfully ignore the extent of racism, sexism, and other problems. Which isn't to say that other countries are necessarily better. There no truly great countries, IMO.
I'm unhappy here, but not sure where else I'd be happier, if I were actually able to migrate.
@funcrunch@julieofthespirits i guess what i'm getting at is that there is racism everywhere, but in almost every other Anglo-settled colony, the primary mode is still 'it doesn't exist'. at all. you made it up. it's in your head. and in most of those places, you cannot even advocate as a non-citizen in civil society, go to protests, or call out some of their problems.
@skinnylatte
Of course Western countries would be racist, though. Has that been your experience in non-Western, non-US-aligned, and Global South countries as well? /gen
@connersjackson Every country is racist in its own way. However, there aren’t that many global south countries that are open to immigrants, so the experience of what it’s like to actually be an immigrant instead of a migrant worker or temporary expat is not something I can speak to. Global south countries also aren’t traditionally the destination of choice for many.
@ChemicalEyeGuy Everyone says so, but for what I do there aren’t any options other than working for Shopify :/ I would have gone earlier if I could have found something suitable.
@mlk Never had the luck to come check it out, but I think immigration to Canada and US is more similar than not (more open broadly to everyone else); cost of living and types of jobs for what I do (tech) didn’t jump out at me as significant improvements from my current situation
America is not a Democracy. We 🇨🇦 are determined to keep our Democracy in spite of the pathological ideology of the fascist gop spreading hate and division across our borders. America is on the edge of an authoritarian catastrophe.
@skinnylatte hmm… I agree with that. But note that also depends on where you are coming from. People from certain countries might die of old age waiting for a permanent resident card.
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