My ancestors were racist murderous fuckwads. My parents, aunts, uncles and some of my cousins were/are still very racist. One of my uncles was a loud and proud member of the KKK. He was also an abusive fuckwad who beat his children, possibly his wife as well (not sure about that).
Thank goodness, I loved reading books and had other examples to follow growing up. I often say that SFF books (especially Andre Norton's) raised me better than my family did.
@StillIRise1963 on a base level, there's a deep-seated fear of acknowledging that your entire worldview was built on lies told to justify atrocities. I went through having to test and rebuild my base assumptions and it isn't a pleasant process. I don't blame people for finding it scary, but when the stakes are this high, using your discomfort as an excuse to not change is pure cowardice and that doesn't deserve respect imo.
@Vincarsi@StillIRise1963 Yes, psychologists call it "identity protective cognition", a tendency we all have to interpret new information in ways that reinforce our existing identity, esp if that new information could threaten our sense of self and/or continuing membership/standing in communities important to our desire for belonging. Basically, if accepting this idea is going to make me feel like I've been acting like an arsehole, or is hoing to make 'the boys'/bosses/badminton club think less of me, then it must be false/irrelevant/biased/incomplete/dangerous, because doing that work makes my brain feel tired.
@StillIRise1963 almost everyone is profoundly uncomfortable with the idea that most of their ancestors didn’t have good table manners. Good luck if you point out that most of their ancestors lacked an internal skeleton.
It kind of means we have to not be racists, murderous fuckwads today and I sadly don't think some white people are prepared to walk that walk even performatively.
@StillIRise1963 I'll say it: my ancestors were racist, muderous fuckwads.
My family has been in Massachusetts since at least 1630. At least some of them must have traded in enslaved people, either Africans or native people enslaved in the aftermath of the various Indian wars.
And even if - unlikely - they never owned humans themselves, they most certainly profited from or associated with a maritime trade that made huge profits off shipping enslaved Africans to the South/Carribbean. Facts.
@StillIRise1963 I don't remember black folks in the Chicago suburb where I grew up. Moved to northern Indiana at 13 and they did busses to integrate schools. The new (black) kids' lockers were in a separate area from the others. I don't know the specific historic reasons. Cheerleaders and pom poms were all white. Flag corps were black.
I don't know whether other folks found this weird.
Then I went to college in Annapolis. Hoo, boy. Where folks lived and the jobs they had were really delineated.
@StillIRise1963 I haven’t researched my ancestors, but based on my fathers opinion of interracial marriages, I have to assume they were racist, murderous fuckwads. Further to be known as RMFs.
@StillIRise1963 I get why that’s hard, but what I don’t get is why it’s easier for some to come up with elaborate justifications for the racist & murderous behavior of their fuckwad ancestors.
@StillIRise1963 My ancestors were racist, murderous fuckwads.
(I anticipate that any exception disappeared from the historic record might have been murdered for being uppity about not being racist or fuckwady enough for the rest of em.)
@StillIRise1963
I don’t know about my ancestors, but I could say I may be racist occasionally because of my ignorance and also because I’m a white privileged woman and can’t understand what I can’t experience.
I prefer to be honest and admit my biais, than telling people I am safe and then be treacherous and hurt people. I prefer people telling me when I am wrong than avoiding facing my flaws.
But yeah, that’s uncomfortable and shameful admitting you can have racist behaviour!
@StillIRise1963
Let’s be clear, I won’t use it as an excuse, but rather as a starting point to understand how to improve myself and society for everyone, especially oppressed people!
@StillIRise1963 they wrap so much of their self Identity in their traditions. Look to the idiots whose ancestors lost the civil war for example... They are driving around in jeeps with giant flags shouting bullshit but they themselves were not in the battles. It's a straight up white supremacy fantasy that gives them that feeling of being special or some shit. They were raised in that crap so to challenge that notion it means to challenge everything they know.
I'm a white Afrikaans-speaking South African. My ancestors were the scum of Europe, fleeing from various religious massacres: Huguenots and German Protestants and Jews, mostly. The Afrikaners did terrible things when they got to South Africa, and especially when they migrated inland; if my direct ancestors didn't own slaves then I suspect it was more for economic reasons than moral.
Two of my great-grandparents were Ossewabrandwag members. My grandfather went to his grave a loyal Nat.
Fuck settler colonialism, man. Foucault said that fascism is colonial violence that comes home; when you already live on the periphery, it doesn't have far to travel.
@StillIRise1963 In particular, it's because some of us get actively brain-fucked by our grandparents who are eager to pass on the lie.
And the sick part is, there's a weird twinkle in their eye when they do it. They know they're lying to their grandkids and it brings them so much joy to be doing what they're "not supposed to" because entire generations of white people are stunted in childhood and never recover.
This is not an excuse--they are willingly complicit in cycles of abuse when they do this.
@StillIRise1963 My ancestors? Well that depends: if we're talking about participation in slavery I don't know, my mother's side came here as indentured servants when it all started and remained northerners and later moved west. I don't know to what degree they participated in the slave trade but I won't rule out anything. I do know they participated in settler colonialism, since they moved west. My father's side of the family are Eastern European Jews who first arrived on US shores in the early 1900s, at least on my father's father's side. His mother side remains a mystery to me, though also Jewish. I have no doubt they had their prejudices, but my grandmother was opposed to the Vietnam War, supported the Civil Rights Movement, and was fairly accepting of gay people when it wasn't popular or safe to be so. She was a fairly typical reform Jew living in Brookline of Boston.
@StillIRise1963 I don't know anything for sure about mine that says they were, but I reckon it's still pretty safe to assume. 🤷🏻♂️
I have no use for shame and even less for blame. But I know I damn well have responsibility for making the world the way it oughta be. And knowing exactly how it got the way it is is crucial for that!
@StillIRise1963 Indeed. It's a little like saying you grew up with an alcoholic in the family.
I think people's issues come in more strongly when they are pushed to admit that they have benefited from it. Everyone wants to think they're responsible for their own success, so it's a hard pill to swallow to admit that we got a leg up from the benefits that accrued to our forebears.
@StillIRise1963
Ancestors? I've got living relatives who are racist fuckwads. Dunno if any of them have murdered anyone, all I know is that I've been permanently uninvited from Christmas.
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