futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

Ants are the strange members of the hymenopterans. What defines a "bee" or a "wasp" ?

Flying! Stinging! Ovipositing! Bright warning colors!

Ants looked at the main advantages of being hymenopteran and said... nah. I guess stinging is OK... (Though most ants don't sting.) ... but most of this is nothing compared to going eusocial.

Personally I think eusociality is such a huge advantage this makes sense.

But then why aren't the bees who do both more successful? Are they too specialized?

davidr,
@davidr@hachyderm.io avatar

@futurebird Bees seem pretty successful. Other than them and ants, who else in the insect world has an A-list Hollywood movie devoted to them?

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@davidr

Bees just have a special relationship with humans since there are domesticated bees, but no domesticated ants... yet... I'm working on it.

spacehobo,

@futurebird @davidr One day, the ants will ask us if we like jazz. But today is not that day.

michaelgemar,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@futurebird @davidr Domesticated…for what? I’d be really curious to know what functions we could get ants to serve for us.

futurebird, (edited )
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@michaelgemar @davidr

Electronics repair,
finding small leaks in systems that need to be airtight,
You could put cameras on Dinomyrmex gigas and use them for search and rescue
spying on people
keeping the apartment clean (ants that pick up debris and put them in the trash)
sorting anything tiny...
weeding gardens (ants could remove unwanted seedlings)
pest control generally

michaelgemar,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@futurebird @davidr Presumably they’re not omnivorous enough to be effective in municipal waste disposal (e.g., have them eat all the organics at landfills).

jerzone,
@jerzone@techhub.social avatar

@futurebird @michaelgemar @davidr

Shaving ants? Might be too ticklish for some, but getting all the follicles snipped to a set length and carried away would be handy.

michaelgemar,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@jerzone @futurebird @davidr That would be…interesting. “Just sit back there while I sprinkle these ants on your face.”

And man, bikini area?

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@michaelgemar @jerzone @davidr

Found my limit I think with that one.

michaelgemar,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@futurebird @jerzone @davidr I didn’t think you had a limit with ants. 🙂

(And it’s interesting that there are, of course, beekeepers that practice “bee bearding”, although that’s also a big nope for me.)

Gorfram,
@Gorfram@beige.party avatar

@futurebird @davidr @michaelgemar @jerzone But I haven’t heard of any of the bee bearders going for bee shaving.

michaelgemar,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@Gorfram @futurebird @davidr @jerzone I suppose bee bearding is kind of the opposite of bee shaving.

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@michaelgemar @Gorfram @davidr @jerzone

Do you know about the myrmecologists who had to shave ants?

I think about them a lot. Like going home for Thanksgiving or whatever and Mom's like "so what are you doing at the big university, Dear?"

"Shavin' ants mom, I'm shavin' ants"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3538007/Scientists-SHAVING-ants-learn-cool-extreme-heat-Bizarre-study-reveals-hairs-reflect-light-like-prism.html

Cyrus,
@Cyrus@zirk.us avatar

@futurebird @michaelgemar @Gorfram @davidr @jerzone I’m imagining them using a fine paint brush to carefully apply shaving cream

jerzone,
@jerzone@techhub.social avatar

@futurebird @michaelgemar @Gorfram @davidr

Only an hour of delicate shaving per small worker!

I don’t think my silvering hair has these reflective triangular properties.

reneestephen,

@futurebird I still think about the study where someone glued little stilts on ants to figure out whether they counted their steps based on how long their legs were to figure out how to get home (the answer was yes, they do. The stilts ants got lost. Which makes me sad. I hope they reunited them with their colonies anyway. I am too sentimental for research.)

Just... some grad student with a magnifying glass and pile of tiny stilts and a little brush.

@michaelgemar @Gorfram @davidr @jerzone

drhoopoe,
@drhoopoe@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

@futurebird
If someone told me that I would just assume it was a euphemism for some odd sex act I was unfamiliar with.

GoblinQuester,
@GoblinQuester@dice.camp avatar

@futurebird Green biology PhD students gets to to so many strange things during their years.
My thoughts goes still to those who was stumbling around in the Nevada (?) desert holding plastic sheets over a foraging ant to test if changes in the sunlight would affect their abilities to find their way back home again.

negative12dollarbill,
@negative12dollarbill@techhub.social avatar

@futurebird @michaelgemar @jerzone @davidr
Ants in the bikini area? You need to watch this great ad from the 80s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdoYLLNvbck

abetterjulie,
@abetterjulie@wandering.shop avatar

@futurebird this would be really handy in space where stray things can cause issues. Having ants to collect the tiny bits would be genius!

Gorfram,
@Gorfram@beige.party avatar

@davidr @futurebird @michaelgemar Ants might be pretty good with finding land mines, too- they have a good sense of smell, & are too light to trigger the mines.
(I’ve heard that bees already have some of this franchise, but it’s not like there aren’t plenty of minefields to go around.)

Gorfram,
@Gorfram@beige.party avatar

@davidr @michaelgemar @futurebird Seed cleaning? (That is, separating seeds from hulls, chaff, & any incidental bits of trash.)
I’ve heard that ants can be very good at removing seeds from freshly planted fields & gardens, so maybe not even very much training involved.

kechpaja,
@kechpaja@social.kechpaja.com avatar

@futurebird @michaelgemar @davidr

> Electronics repair

Are we sure that uplifting ants to the level of intelligence needed for this would be a good idea? That might end badly.

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@kechpaja @michaelgemar @davidr

I can't think of a single thing that could go wrong. No idea what you are getting at with this.

BillySmith,
@BillySmith@social.coop avatar

@futurebird @michaelgemar @davidr

There's one gardener who used to live locally, that when he found aphids, he would put out the correct herbs to attract wasps, which would then clear up the aphids for him. :D

Landa,
@Landa@graz.social avatar

@michaelgemar pest control. Imagine you could hire a soldier ant army to go through a building and take out anything that’s an insect. @futurebird @davidr

ohyran,
@ohyran@social.piewpiew.se avatar

@michaelgemar @futurebird @davidr
A companion, a buddy?

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@ohyran @michaelgemar @davidr

Imagine a "friend" that's a whole colony. A "super friend" and "super organism friend"

michaelgemar,
@michaelgemar@mstdn.ca avatar

@futurebird @ohyran @davidr I’m envisioning an entire wall of a room that is a plexiglass habitat. Perhaps the ants could spell out messages?

PTR_K,
@PTR_K@dice.camp avatar

@futurebird @davidr
Bees + Humans = Honey harvesting
Cows + Humans = Milk harvesting
Ants + Aphids + Humans = Honeydew harvesting(?)

Maybe we could be producing something akin to maple syrup on a different scale.

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

Many ants, unlike eusocial bees are greater generalists, although the eusocial wasps come close in terms of having a flexible diet.

But maybe flying just makes your nest easier to find and raid. Many creatures love to eat wasp nests.

fivetonsflax,

@futurebird don’t knock it till you’ve tried it

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

Another issue with the Hymenopterans is that there are xylophagous sawflies, and sawflies generally have a bunch of social ... but not eusocial behaviors. And YET termites evolved from roach like bugs... not from wood munching sawflies. Make it make sense!

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

Nobody thinks about sawflies much. I'm trying to be more aware of the sawflies.

friesen5000,
@friesen5000@mstdn.ca avatar

@futurebird one of the few people into sawflies is @ceiseman

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@friesen5000 @ceiseman

I mean they do that neat "voltron" move where a bunch of young sawflies pretend to be one big sawfly larva by moving in a group... that's pretty cool.

MichaelTBacon,
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop avatar

@futurebird @friesen5000 @ceiseman

Hymenoptera Voltron is always good. You cannot possibly go wrong with that combo.

albertcardona,
@albertcardona@mathstodon.xyz avatar

@futurebird

Sawflies can be lovely. Though often hidden inside stems or galls as maggots.

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@albertcardona

I always want to strap a corset on them.

funkula,
@funkula@goblin.camp avatar

@futurebird trying to make the sawflies feel seenflies

fuzzykb,
@fuzzykb@hachyderm.io avatar
quinsibell,
@quinsibell@sauropods.win avatar

@futurebird we get pergid sawfly lava on the paper bark trees around where I live and they look like wart-ridden alien slime babies and of course we love how perfectly horrid they are.

crashglasshouses,
@crashglasshouses@tsukihi.me avatar

@futurebird and yet wood lice are not like hair lice, they just crawl around looking for moisture and dead vegetation.

MichaelTBacon,
@MichaelTBacon@social.coop avatar

@futurebird Wait sawflies are hymenoptera? I feel like I should have known that I and I 100% did not.

LucyKemnitzer,
@LucyKemnitzer@wandering.shop avatar

@futurebird Termites are because eusociality is a beacon for evolution like being a crab is.
I read a great book on termites & I keep remembering bits of it when I should be thinking of something else.

llewelly,
@llewelly@sauropods.win avatar

@futurebird what if there were widespread eusocial xylophagus sawflies for millions of years, and then they went extinct at the end of the Pleistocene, and it's just chance that we happen to live in this little window of time without eusocial sawflies, and the luck of the fossil record that we don't know it?

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@llewelly

This is the saddest thing ever... think of missing them! it's like ancient aliens, but for ant nerds and not vaguely racist.

justafrog,
@justafrog@mstdn.social avatar

@futurebird @llewelly We missed over 99% of species.

Fortunately, there are frogs in the present. Imagine only seeing very poor reconstructions in paleontology manuals!

Would they even know about all the coloration?

ReverendMoose,
@ReverendMoose@mas.to avatar

@futurebird it was never the ancient aliens, it was the insect ancestors.

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@llewelly

Bookmarking this as a short story idea... the lost civilization of the eusocial sawflies!

Were there sawflies in the Carboniferous? That might be a bit early for them. Off to learn about sawfly evolution!

(I do have papers to grade but this will only take a moment.)

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@llewelly

Awwww yeah boy the whole pdf isn't behind a paywall

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7455281/pdf/evaa106.pdf

wa7iut,
@wa7iut@mastodon.radio avatar

@futurebird @llewelly

the length of the author list makes it look like a high energy physics paper

malin,
@malin@dice.camp avatar

@futurebird I don't speak Greek, but those are some stunning graphs.

bhawthorne,

@futurebird @llewelly This is a rabbit hole I did not expect to explore today! Intriguing results.

cmeinel,
@cmeinel@mastodon.social avatar

@futurebird Conical piles of tiny pebbles help harvester ants Pogonomyrmex spp stay warm in winter. Harvesters on my land all had their pebble piles flattened in a huge hailstorm. They haven't made much progress, winter is coming. Should I help them rebuild? How? Ideas? Thanks for considering this question.

futurebird,
@futurebird@sauropods.win avatar

@cmeinel

Whenever I've tried to help ants, if I try to do something they don't like it and "fix" it. But giving them easy access to favorite materials went better.

cmeinel,
@cmeinel@mastodon.social avatar

@futurebird OK! I found two remains of apparently long dead harvester hills. I'll gather their largish sand grains and distribute them among the five flattened but active hills.

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