We're testing a couple new follow recommendation algorithms on mastodon.online, so if you have an account there, please check Explore → People and let me know if the quality of the results has improved for you.
Looks like the rate at which mastodon.online users follow others has increased by 56% after the algorithm change (from 1.2K per day to 1.9K per day), so that's pretty good considering follow recommendations are kind of buried in the interface.
@Gargron I see that some people hate algorithms like they are a disease 🦠 but they are just the product of the person who created them, so If you have any doubts about what is happening just go and review the code, rewarding the new algorithm for recommendations It’s a huge step forward, Congrats 🎊
@Gargron question (assuming you are talking about those in Explore -> People), are you able to track those followed using that feature or are you counting the general number (ie: number or users followed in any way) ? Thanks
@Gargron I think the key will be keeping it updated. It’s been on the same 10 people for the last 7 months. And I’m on social. Maybe I’m doing it wrong. Either way, let me know if I can help or fix things.
@Gargron Not really all that useful right now. First post from myself, 4 of 20 accounts that I already follow and some popular admin accounts like yours, dansup or stux or very general accounts like Wikipedia. In fact 5 of 20 are instance admins as far as I can tell. Maybe "self" and "already followed" can be filtered somehow?
Algorithms are not inherently evil. They're only bad when they're a black box intended for manipulation, but I don't particularly mind if they're transparent and don't have any agenda.
@Methylcobalamin@Gargron It never has been algorithm free. The rules for which posts show up on your timeline and in what order are simple, but it is an algorithm, that considers whether you follow the person, whether it has been boosted, whether you have blocked the person your friend boosted, whether the conversation has been muted, etc. The problem is with secret algorithms designed to benefit a company and not you.
@Gargron
Convenience is not always better... It can have unacceptable flaws for privacy. Mastodon is better because it is what it is and doesn't rely on algorithms. Many people want it to keep on not using them
But the follow recommendations were already using an algorithm before. It's just a different one now (and a feature that's hard to implement without an algorithm).
@just_a_frog@Gargron
Convenience is not always better...
In the beginning it will be an innocent algorithm "just to implement that single" convenient feature" but let's admit it : "recommendation" that's exactly how GAFAM's toxic system works. I understand that people want convenience, a much more attractive network... but they tend to forget that they came here to escape a world (surveillance capitalism) that most people would want to exclude.
You're right. An algorithm could one day be implemented in an unsuitable place/way. So how about we criticize it then when that is possibly about to happen and not when it's being used in an innocuous way. Algorithms are an extremely basic and essential part of most computing. Categorically railing against would be a bit like being mad at maths because bad people use it.
@Gargron It would be a better idea to exclude threads.net (for a good start) and not to add an algorithm to reshape Fediverse as companies like Meta, Twitter/X, Amazon and Apple would want it to be for their own profit against its users. People feel better here without them.
Threads.net is a very big potential threat. Fediverse must not be reshaped and stolen as XMPP
It really does show better recommendations for my mastodon.online account - can't compare it too well to the previous algorithm as I rarely check that screen, but yes I've even discovered good accounts to follow which is rare.
@Gargron I'd rather this wasn't a feature anywhere for mastodon, I thought we didn't want algorithms. I really like the actual connection I make with people I follow and follow me. If people start being recommended my account and don't really care about interacting or have otherwise never seen me before, it'll be real sad to see. It also sets up promoted accounts and will inevitably recommend famous people and businesses, which is not what mastodon is.
@Gargron Instances set up the topic you're most interested in, so just showing random users from it would be enough for me at least. A more useful thing for an algorithm would be recommending the instances to people through a short Q&A to make joining less complex.
@tripplehelix@Gargron I understand your concerns, however I don't think that algorithms are bad per se. What is bad is the lack of transparency and the way it is forced on everyone. When you've just joined a new social network and you do not have a lot of acquaintances there, recommendations can be very useful (and fun!). It could also increase retention of non-fedi-nerds.
If they provide options to opt-out for recommendations and to be recommended to others, I think that it would be perfect. 👌🏻
@tj@Gargron They give new and/or unfound accounts an unfair disadvantage. They are also ripe for exploitation. It'll also make it easier to enable the ability for people to pay for rankings, as you can see by the replies some people already want just that. Even if it's not a feature yet, it will be, as it has been for any other website.
The thing is that, Ive been here for a year now and the users in there I know them all and did follow them from the beginning. I now instead of following users follow Hashtags. It is a better way to stay current with trends and content, it's a better way to organize content and information in my window. And most important it is an amazing way to discover new views, content and users #Fediverse wide .
@Twitter_expat@Gargron I love the ease of finding people with similar interests through the hashtag system. It feels much more natural, a bit like joining a D&D group, you know you all have the same interests.
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