"Just asking questions" is a weapon. We know full-well that some people exploit it to feign innocence when deliberately throwing noise into discussions. And it works in large part because it encourages otherwise earnest discussions which then contribute to the noise.
@TechConnectify A lot of people (myself included, something I've had to work on) grow up being the smart kids and getting rewarded for asking questions. It can be really hard to overcome that urge to show off, as you spent the first 2 decades of your life getting rewarded for behavior that is asinine outside the classroom.
So I've learned to temper my impulse to ask a question that is more about me showing off how smart I am. If I can't think of something that isn't driven by my curiosity, I don't ask a question.
Others seem to just enjoy feeling superior, but which case it is isn't always obvious to the person getting questioned.
So yes, feeling sympathy. Have been on both sides, though not out of malice on my end. But it means I know how to deal with that personality type as an engineer, but it takes tools social media doesn't have.
Putting yourself out there the way you do is tough! My sympathies for the reply guys and show offs, they are not fun to deal with.
@larsmb I am not talking about sealioning. That person knows what they're doing and doesn't need anyone to tell them to be careful.
I'm talking about people engaging in conversations about things which are technically true but don't actually matter. We need to get better at recognizing when things are irrelevant and let them drop out of the conversation, because earnest people who don't do this unwittingly bring fodder to the disinformers of the world.
@larsmb This post was spurred by a convo on a different platform.
It is true that to electrify everything as we need to do, we will face challenges. But if all you can do is ask "will the power grid be able to keep up with demand?" without realizing that A) yes, it always has B) it must if we are to meet the goal anyway and C) given A and B this question doesn't actually need to be asked, then you're giving credit to the opposition & also worsening the doom spiral which makes us feel powerless.
@TechConnectify Right. It's somewhat related I feel to what I vented about in https://mastodon.online/@larsmb/111997902452056689 - people value to engage socially, and value that above an actually helpful contribution (which might either have been to invest more effort before replying, or not to reply/ask at all).
It is a conundrum!
@TechConnectify@larsmb It's an insidious form of cherry-picking. Even if the malefactor here eventually technically includes all the counterpoints, but if their headline / lede graf is all about hand-wringing and challenges and they only get to potential ambiguous solutions later on, they can easily poison the discourse while still covering their ass about accusations of misdirection. (And sometimes they don't even bother to do that.)
@glyph@larsmb Right, but I think the real challenge here is that honest people who genuinely want the world to get better also do this! They often don't realize they're doing it, but they're doing it.
That's what I mean by "be careful" - you have to have some awareness of what you're stepping in and what the words you leave behind will contribute.
@TechConnectify@larsmb I still tend to think of these people as "bad" because quite often it's mainstream journalists who are, whether they're doing it consciously or not, driving clicks by shilling anxiety
@TechConnectify I like this take. "Don't think it's easy, or that you'll have all the answers out of the gate, but don't let the ambiguity of the problem stop you from having meaningful conversations and making meaningful change."
Which is really just "Don't let perfect be the enemy of good" dressed up a bit, I suppose. 😆
@CiscoJunkie@TechConnectify It's… not quite about that. More about taking care where you put the emphasis in a conversation.
If you are among experts, having an internal conversation, where everyone knows the general plan, it's fine to open up with a big list of problems as you try to solve them one at a time.
If you're talking to the general public, introducing them to a topic or catching laypeople up to the state of the art, beginning with a laundry list of "questions" can mislead.
@CiscoJunkie@TechConnectify This can also be true even if you are legitimately curious and don't know the answer to the questions! A big open-ended anxious "what if" on a big platform gives the reader the impression that the answers are generally unknown, rather than that you in specific are ignorant.
You can reply with "Aside, sirrah, I have no time for your petty cavilling". And put your hand on the pommel of your sword, to indicate that you are serious.
@TechConnectify@larsmb
One of the things I've learned to look for is whether someone is searching for problems or solutions. People who are focused exclusively on problems are usually looking for an excuse for inaction. People who are focused on solutions want the project to succeed. They may still see obstacles, but they'll at least try to find solutions. If they can't find one, they'll be happy to hear someone else has.
@TechConnectify there's a term in Dutch that's used to describe this: mierenneuken.
It literally means "ant fucking" but it's basically this; focusing on little nitpicking details that derail productive conversation. I appreciate how quickly Dutch people point this out when it happens, and that usually puts a stop to it.
This is a reality which sucks. And I know that full-well.
But it's one of the central ways we get held back from making important changes. The status quo preys on people believing we can't do things - so if you believe we need to change? Be careful that you're not playing into that hand.
@TechConnectify You've probably seen it, and I don't want to imply that you haven't, but some people reading this might not have - the Alt-Right Playbook is a good reference for this kind of strategy.
@TechConnectify ""Just asking questions" is a weapon"... yeah let's just believe everything we read, no need to dig under the surface. No need to think critically. No need for transparency. Just get in line and believe what others tell you, right??
So ridiculous... just glad we live in an age where freedom of speech actually does exist in many parts of the world.
First, my advice here is directed to people earnestly asking questions - but absolutely not to suggest that they should not ask them.
The trouble lies in the fact that many people ask questions nefariously. Those people do not actually seek answers; they are spreading their beliefs by shaping and directing discourse. If you are unaware of this phenomenon, I suggest you look into it. JAQing is a common term, and it is a weapon.
@RodgeNichols you can ask questions earnestly which inadvertently meet the same ends of someone who is deliberately JAQing. And this is especially likely in public forums like this one where anybody can ask questions and anybody can reply.
Frankly, I don't think forums like this are really a great place to get your questions answered! That's not "doing your own research" or anything like that, it's simply asking the crowd.
But that's beside the point. The point is just to be more careful.
@RodgeNichols I have to think a lot about the finer points of communication because that is literally my job, and I do not expect anybody to have the same level of caution or awareness that I do.
But I do think at least a little more would be helpful. Because we are all creating media when we participate in social media - general principles around media literacy are helpful to have both when consuming and when producing it.
@konradmb And sealioning isn't at all what I'm talking about, here.
Frankly I'm kind of stunned at how many people are interpreting me to mean what you've suggested. I'm not saying nobody should ask questions - I'm saying people need to give a little more thought into whether those questions are even relevant. Because weaponized questions are a thing, and some folks don't realize this or don't believe they could ever unwittingly do this.
@konradmb Yes, because this is directed to the question-askers. Not the answer-providers.
But, if you believe someone is in fact asking questions in bad-faith, I don't believe you're under any obligation to engage. Because that's what they want.
@TechConnectify Meh, it's easy to think "it's a bad-faith question", but you can't really prove that. I mean - it's not a falsifiable hypothesis, so it's unable to be proven. So to err on the side of caution I'd give a proper response.
@konradmb OK, well now - specifically to you in the situation of you being asked a question - I would advise that you use caution. Much of this is audience- and setting-specific, and I think in some contexts it's safe to assume that questions are being asked in good faith.
But it's not always. And if you think a certain response might be what someone's looking for, you probably shouldn't engage.
@TechConnectify I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. If someone is looking for a slip-up, it will happen sooner or later. I couldn't keep up with checking if some questions are good- or bad-faith. It's a siege mentality.
Dismissing questions as bad-faith is (was) often done on Polish DIY board elektroda.pl. That culture was so popular with the older generation of tech-folks it permeated through the whole scene, that I've had a college lecturer that behaved in the same way IRL.
@TechConnectify@konradmb I feel like there’s a massive problem around criticism and doubt being perpetually ‘safe’ (not to mention cheap and easy) and everything else under siege. Questions and doubts should require some rigor.
@Arwin@konradmb I like this. Not sure where to take it but it does seem to touch on something.
It's easy to worry about things despite evidence that you don't need to worry. And it's even easier when you have bad actors giving you specific things to worry about.
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