This is very important though. It's forbidden on EU level. If Germany manages to change this or barrel through, this could open up legalization in the whole EU. Some countries are just not doing it, because it's forbidden on EU level and it's hard to get through that.
So I believe, aside from Germans, a lot of European watching closely how this develops and even small steps are already good. We just need to see this through.
The first step is possible without changing EU laws, it's basically something like the Spanish social clubs, but a bit better. People can join clubs that are legally allowed to grow weed and are monitored for quantity and quality. They pay in and then get a certain amount each month. Also we can grow ourselves with a certain amount of plants.
There is a number of random restrictions to appease the conservatives, like no smoking in public in front of a school and to certain times.
The second step will see Germany go head-to-head with the EU, which will be the actually sale in shops and/or pharmacies. For that purpose there will be pilot cities that will start this in controlled measure while the government is ringing with the EU.
In both steps, there is legalization, although with a bunch of random restrictions. Albeit, most people take it over no change at all. And in the end, the restrictions are mostly public, so what you do in your flat or house is your thing and the police can't get you for smoking and growing there.
I see the “drugs are bad” comment jn your history…
Oppression of drugs is bad and makes the problem worse while criminals get rich.
This is quite literally the way if we want a healthier society with less drug related problems and crime. Asks scientist and people who work gave experience working with addicts.
Criminalization creates taboo, which means people hide from help and lie that they don’t have a problem instead of looking for a way out. They are paranoid to tell their medical professionals the truth because they fear the state and police.
The glorification of some aspects of drug culture is a side effect of this. So yes drugs might get more visible in society but the toxicity in the drugs will be less, the damage they do will be contained, social safety will be more prevalent as people stop hiding their use and help to recognize their problem and quit will be open and accessible.
Why is it dumb exactly? All lives are equally valuable and it’s enshrined in Article 3 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Poisoning yourself definitely goes against your right to life and of security of person
Your well thought and well written post will likely land on deaf ears.
In my experience, evidence, logical arguments and simple common sense are completely ineffective with the kind of people who think "drugs bad and that's it" and are convinced that more War on Drugs is the solution. Despite the fact that all the evidence around us shows that it's not.
I know for the person i commented on its probably to late but if i can get some lurkers that simply not know any better to start doing some research then thats a win.
The only drug I take is alcohol, I still don’t think someone should be criminalised for getting high.
I especially don’t think that the way to cure drug addiction is to throw people in to prison. Drug problems need to be treated as a health issue, not a criminal one. No happy and healthy person ever woke up and just decided to get addicted to heroin.
Therapy makes sense when people have problems in their life.
It is very well possible to consume drugs like marijuana without developing a dependance, and especially without getting any problems in life. Which means, without indicating any therapy.
The opposite also happens, and therapy for those who struggle definitely makes sense. It just does not make sense to generalize this way.
If someone uses drugs it’s definitely as a means of evasion, so yeah, marijuana users should go to therapy no matter how they convince themselves and others to be “fine”
Ah, so alcohol (which by the way causes 140.000 deaths per year in the US alone) can be consumed in moderation for recreational purposes but Cannabis cannot? How come?
Looks like you have finally got the point of this discussions. Exactly, it is currently a crime. What we are trying to convey is that it really shouldn’t be.
It should stay that way. If it was plausible I’d even outlaw alcohol, but it’s just too ingrained in human society for a prohibition to work. However, cannabis still isn’t as broadly used
People use strategies of evasions in a zillion ways, most don’t involve any drugs (like making holidays to evade your everyday life), some involve legal drugs like alcohol (e.g. evade your social anxiety in social events). Using evasive strategies on it’s own is a normal part of live and in itself not a sufficient indicator for therapy. If the individual life suffers from it, then yes. What’s the point of doing therapy with someone who is fine, after all? All while people who actually suffer struggle to get any therapy to begin with?
We could also very well argue that all of these ways in which people use evasive strategies would be worth of therapy. I could get behind that (though there are good reasons against it, too), but see no reason to single out marijuana then.
So there were a couple of thoughts in my comment, a few perspectives and nuances. You singled out one (or actually rather projected) which suits your view which you don’t want to change. There were many other ways to engage in a constructive way, which you evaded.
By your logic, don’t you need therapy now? Evasion bad, right?
I have asked you for scientific evidence for your claim that cannabis is physically addictive multiple times. Don’t pretend this is the first time I’ve said anything.
That does not say it is physically addictive. I suggest you read it. Physical addiction is not just feeling like you really need to to something. It’s a physiological condition.
You could, but that would be another bit of dishonesty because I have not tied you to anything. So now you have shown yourself to be a throughly dishonest person.
I met dozens if not hundreds of people who did exactly that. Most indefinitely. Usually without any therapeutic help.
Because it is not physically addictive. It can be psychologically addictive, yes, and some people really do struggle to stop using it. Though most users can quit relatively easy and usually do when they need to be more responsible in their life; ‘grow up’.
They seem to believe a lot of nonsense. So i wouldnt take their claims for much.
That said while there is a clinical difference between physically and psychological addiction I personally vouch for a more open approach that different people can experience and suffer from addiction in multiple ways. There is also some evidence that similar to allergies some rare people can be physically addicted to anything.
Making/keeping drugs illegal is the biggest funding program for organized crime there ever has been in human history. Every serious criminologist will tell you that the war on drugs has never done anything against drug abuse.
That would almost make sense, were the majority of murders committed by a hitmen making their living as per the amount of drugs that are sold by gangs.
Most murders are committed without a cash goal in mind, but how many people are supplying cannabis, cocaine or heroin without profit in mind?
It’s still a good thing to offer a voice of reason when someone spouts nonsense. You may not change their mind, but there are always others who read and are on the fence. Offering sources and reasoning can help a great deal, without any visible effect. In this sense, thank you for your service! o7
Yes, the “Kabinett” (The chancellor and the ministers) approved the plans, but it needs to be approved by other governmental institualtions as well before it becomes reality.
Though it's coming. The question will be of it stays. Current government is in dire straits in the polls. This might only live one or two years until the next government culls it, given that the conservatives are rising again.
I wanted to say that the CDU/CSU has the charisma of a rotten potato and that I doubt they'll rake in many votes, but then I remembered who our current chancellor is.
Amazing protest to throw your votes to literal nazis and conservatives who’d rather help the literal nazis to gain power than accept that time changes thingts.
A good chunk of people only look at their bottomline. And for some it's "we have less money right now than under the conservative government". Doesn't matter about Covid, doesn't matter about the war in Ukraine, doesn't matter about the world wide economy. It's just "we are worse off" and then it just takes the opposition to promise "we will make that you are better off" to move votes.
I don't really see what can happen that makes such a big impact that the government recoup their poll losses.
Cannabis is the only issue where the three parties are kinda on the same foot, otherwise we have a lot of conflicts, especially between Greens and FDP, which damages both parties. And the SPD is ... kinda there, a charismatic blackhole like usually.
FDP is doing FDP things as usual. Trying to funnel more money into their audiences pockets. Greens matured a lot in the last decades. I'm not sure if enough, but they changed a lot. The SPD ... as bad as it sounds, but the last really charismatic leader was Gas Gerhard. And he was/is a cunt. I don't want to talk about Bruno the Union. With Mutti they lost a whole lot more than just a leader.
For what it's worth, Mutti was really soft and moderate for her party. Years of just her had many forget what kind of beasts she was holding at bay within her party.
The problem is not the conservatives tbh, more the actual nazis. Couldn’t worry much about the CDU and their religious nutjob sub-faction the CSU right now, they’re a known problem that is largely inept due to their own inability to effect change since not doing so is essentially their primary advertisement for themselves.
The issue with the CDU/CSU is that they already made steps towards the AFD after the party passed 20%. Remember, the conservatives in the Weimar Republic supported the Nazis, not because they liked them, but because they thought they could puppeteer them, get rid of the communists and socialists and then zhrowing them away and come out on top.
I am afraid that the current conservatives have similair thoughts when it comes to the AFD.
Of course they do. Conservatives aren’t center as they claim. They are right wing. So their natural friends are other enemies of freedom and democracy.
I looked and the common pattern I see is that conservative parties are actually several smaller parties stacked in a trenchcoat, pretending to have a common direction, but too scared of adressing inner conflict. They still hope they can continue to uphold a facade of unity by pandering to the rightwingers.
It’s not very effective. But I see that as a result of group-psychology and basic human incompetence, not as explicitly agreeing with fascist values.
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