“No one is looking at us or the extent of this disaster or the crimes that we are experiencing in Gaza,” he said. Still holding his microphone, he slid off his flak jacket marked with the word PRESS and unstrapped his helmet.
“These protection jackets and helmets don't protect us,” he said, flinging the equipment to the ground. “Nothing protects journalists. ... We lose our lives for no reason.”
It's easy to take an enlightened centerist approach here saying things like "both sides do awful things" and "everyone should stop". And while to a point that this is true, there has a history of revenge repesials going back devades. But that really ignores the vast power imblance between Israel and the strip.
From basic utilities to free movement on roads to kicking Palestinians out of their homes in favor of Israeli settlers. It's a small easy thing to relax in your chair and say everyone is wrong, but this conflict can end when Isreal stops their oppression. Not providing clean water and bombing medical infrastructure is genocide all by itself. Gaza is an open air prison where movement is restricted. It's high minded arrogant nonsense to say Gaza should focus on their own country when Isreal is literally bombing their water wells.
But let's be honest here, the area didn't belong to the zionists for a really long time. The international community forced Palestinians off of their land and for a good 70 years Palestinians they have suffered. Zionists should not have been given the means to invade the Palestinians.
this conflict can end when Isreal stops their oppression
It can end when hamas surrenders.
Not providing clean water and bombing medical infrastructure is genocide all by itself.
It wasn’t a problem before October 7th. Maybe hamas should’ve done something about preventing such a situation, to build water purification facilities etc. Also maybe not build war infrastructure under medical infrastructure.
It’s high minded arrogant nonsense to say Gaza should focus on their own country when Isreal is literally bombing their water wells.
It’s low minded arrogant nonsense to say that Israel should not react to attacks of terrorists who vowed to not stop attacks until they destroy Israel with it’s 9 million population.
At 8:30 p.m. Thursday, after signing off from a live report on Gaza’s soaring death toll, Abu Hatab headed to his nearby home in Khan Younis where he lived with his wife, six children, brother and brother’s family, his colleagues said.
On his way, he spoke to the Palestine TV bureau chief, Rafat Tidra.
“He was so professional, as always,” Tidra said. “In that conversation, he was focused on what he was going to report the next day, how we were going to work.”
At around 9:30, an Israeli airstrike hit his house, wiping out the Abu Hatab family. No one survived. His neighbor’s houses only sustained limited damage from the blast.
So was there a Hamas base under this journalist’s private residence or something?!
It’s pretty clear that Israel have been targeting journalists, particularly when there is no other military action around the journlists they assassinate.
A reprisal is a limited and deliberate violation of international law to punish another sovereign state that has already broken them.[1][2] Since the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions (AP 1), reprisals in the laws of war are extremely limited,[3] as they commonly breach the rights of non-combatants.
The fact that the world leading powers gave another "state" a blank check for to do this, tells you where we are going. Just remember if they can do this to Gaza residents, they will do it to you too.
Only time will tell how this war will be seen legally, but imo at this moment Israel is not in violation of international law. It explicitly allows strikes with civilian casualties if the casualties are "proportional" to the military advantage gained, which in the case of Hamas leaders using civilians as human shields seem to be the case, as ugly as it is. It depends on whether Israel is lying or mistaken about their targets, but none of us can know that at this moment. But since dead civilians are much more useful for Hamas' interests than for Israel's interest, I think it's pretty safe to say that Israel is at least making an effort to be precise and likely just doesn't care about other casualties.
Israel is not following principle of proportionality...
As for war crimes, there is no way to tell since Gaza is under blockade and proper investigations require for area to be secured, which is unlikely to happen any time soon.
This is heartbreaking, I don’t know what else to say. The justification that these casualties are acceptable because “Hamas is there too” is just nonsense. If that’s the case why won’t Israel let civilians cross the border into Israel to prevent their murder?
I wanna preface this with “Israel is clearly in the wrong for these attacks and civilians casualties are not an acceptable consequence of this conflict” but as others have already mentions: Israel not taking in Palestinians is very clearly because you can’t reliably filter out hamas from Palestinian civilians. That doesn’t make what their doing OK, it’s just the very obvious reason for them not doing what you’re suggesting. It doesn’t help that these continues attacks probably makes the civilians population more likely to want to retaliate against the government. “You make the monsters you want to fight” and a that.
Palestinians is very clearly because you can’t reliably filter out hamas from Palestinian civilians.
This is also a fucking BS, sure you disapprove but you can’t even put that on the table. Right now, Israel is fabricating more than ever the so called “terrorists”, that’s why they conflate the term with resistance fighter. Don’t you fucking think it is a traumatic situation?! Bombing, displacing, cut water/electricity/food …
At the very very least, it should have been a terrestrial attack, but they are so coward and reluctant to anything not jewish (last bit is in their book), that they go freestyle and free of consequence.
Holy molly I feel dirty, suddenly. , I misread your comment, my bad. The BS argument is about “radicalization” , of course. People seeing their relatives, friends and weak (children) getting killed is just fuel for outrage and punishment…
The denial of basic necessities for human survival and the driving of civilians southward is a coordinated push to expel the populous from the Gaza Strip. They've attempted back channel deals to scrub Egypt's debt for them to take in the civilians. Their "plan" to ship the expelled around the world has been leaked. People understand this, and thus, the only logical solution is for Israel to take care of these people whose lives they are shattering. They can't leave their land or Israeli land or they won't get it back. Whether it's worth dying over is largely out of the Palestinians in Gaza hands for the moment.
This can't be made someone else's problem, because that's exactly what Israel wants and that should make their motivations very clear.
Are you actually suggesting Israel take over Palestine and absorb the civilians populations. That’s insane. Theirs decades of hate and anguish here, Israel would need to keep the Palestinians isolated from the Israeli population for fear of retaliation and the Palestinians would live under constant observation for fear of retaliating. Israel can’t deradicalise Palestine when their a good chunk of the reason Palestinians are radicalised into hamas. The only sensible solution is egypt taking over the region and promising diplomatic responses to Israel instead of continued conflict but they don’t for the same reason: because they don’t want the radical element of hamas under their governance. In the end the only end I see is Palestinians expelling hamas or Israel wiping them out because the alternative is continued conflict forever (which i suppose is also possible, it’s been that way for years after all).
It's not my suggestion, it very much appears to be what they are doing in Gaza. Removing their right to self determination is also not a solution. The UN is a much better force to act as interim peacekeepers. I don't think either of us are probably going to be the ones to crack the peace nut. All that I am saying is that secondary evidence and leaks point to a future where the people of Gaza have been removed and I very much believe Israels intent is to never let them back in.
Their not taking over so much as pushing out. Taking over would be more like sending ground forces to find and eradicate all known hamas agents and then establishing an interim Israeli government in the region. The end goal here is very clearly not to take in the Palestinians as new citizens to israels government, its to damage as much of hamas as they can and put a large buffer zone between themselves to minimise the likelihood of retaliation. It’s not a takeover when you appear more than willing to wipe out whoevers already their. And I don’t see any situation where if Israel does take over they actually let Palestinians continue living there.
If that’s the case why won’t Israel let civilians cross the border into Israel to prevent their murder?
Whether you agree with Israeli attacks or not, obviously the answer to this is because it's impossible to filter out Hamas terrorists, which is the main thing they're trying to prevent.
So, you believe Israel can identify a Hamas terrorist remotely to bomb them, but can’t identify Hamas terrorists when they are at the border in person?
The people IDF is targeting are Hamas leaders or "officers", who need to communicate a lot and sometimes even show in public, so they can be tracked with enough time. Boots on the ground soldiers are a completely different problem and Israel doesn't even have the resources to track all of them because there are so many. How is that not obvious??
So 10,000 people have died now to kill how many? Here's a question, what number is okay to kill? You seem to know these things so the answer should be obvious.
I'm not happy with what Israel is doing. But I don't know of a better way to get rid of Hamas either. And I'm convinced that if we want a free Palestine and a working two state solution, freeing it from Hamas has to be the first step without which no sustainable situation with Israel can ever be achieved.
where did I say that? Must be hard juggling a victim complex with 4000 murdered children. Oh, maybe not?
edit: K, where did I ever come close to implying any civilian life (that's universal jackass) is less worthy or valuable. What a fucking coward, coming in and editing the original as a way to skip a response. Here's one in return piss pants.
You’re implying that Israel is entitled to murder thousands of civilians, half of them children, and level to the ground a city that used to house over half a million people up until recently, just because its far right government that has protected people who abused Palestinians for decades doesn’t want to seek any solution other than relentless violence. One day you’ll look at yourself in the mirror and find yourself a monster.
If Israel wanted to kill all people in Gaza, they could just carpet bomb them without ever stepping a foot in. The only reason to do a ground invasion that will inevitably bring a ton of Israeli casualties is to reduce civilian deaths.
Better way is easy: a one state solution like Israel claims it wants would be better than this. Declare everyone in Palestine an Israeli citizen, move in law enforcement in force, and arrest murderers for murder.
I agree that it would be better for the Palestinians, clearly Israeli Arabs have better lives than people in Gaza and West Bank despite also facing some discrimination, but Gazans would never agree to this (that is clear from public opinion polls done by PA institutions - for example over 70% of people in Gaza support violence against Israeli civilians), so the end result would be exactly the same is this one. You would still have an army of violent murderers hiding in tunnels with almost two decades of preparation for exactly this.
I’m sure this will work about as well as the US attempt to get rid of the Taliban. Or as well as any of the other instances in the past of trying to get rid of an ideological group through violence.
It doesn’t work. It makes everything worse. It radicalizes survivors and kills lots of innocent people.
Some day maybe humanity will collectively abandon these cycles of hatred and violence played out over decades. But I doubt it.
You have a point, but it's not really the same thing and there's a very good recent counter-example too. ISIS was effectively dealt with despite being spread out over a much larger area. Taliban won, but it had a whole huge country to work in and was nowhere near as violent as Hamas, so it had more support. Gaza is tiny in comparison, blocked on all sides and neighbors of Israel don't want anything to do with them either, even if they don't like Israel. There is also at least some alternative in Fatah, which didn't lose the 2005 elections by that much.
Imo it's clearly possible to get rid of Hamas, though I'm not making any claims about the probability that it will happen.
Mostly, I don't really see an alternative. Some radical action needed to be taken because anything else would be interpreted as a clear proof that large terrorist attacks against civilians work, and Hamas should continue committing them. You cannot appease someone whose reason for existence is violence. And keeping Hamas sort of in check, only killing or capturing the worst terrorists, which is what was being done in the last two decades, clearly did not work either.
You don't see any alternative to the slaying of people in a 10 to 1 ratio in what is an offensive reprisal attack? I mean Machiavelli would agree with you.
Why does “radical action” always mean “radical violence”?
“Radical action” can and should include radical kindness in which past wounds can be forgiven and a cooperative future can be built. Right now, all the violence is doing is ensuring that Hamas will be enumerated and maintained for generations by the people that Israel is considering to be sub-human and disposable. Radical violence creates radical ideologues and only ever begets further violence in the absence of total and absolute annihilation.
Radical kindness will specifically tell Hamas "yes, brutal terrorist attacks work, keep doing them". That is unfortunately not an option. It's also just a fantasy because it would understandably never be supported by Israeli population for this reason.
I'm interested in seeing alternative solutions that could actually work and be realistically implemented, but outside of understandable positions like "ease off with the fucking bombing and do more work on the ground" that don't change the goal of what is being done I have not seen any.
This reads like "we don't care about the hostages or their families. We must complete our noble work of eradication of the people we deem "hostile." Also anyone that gets in our way is fully excusable and at fault for their own death by being around where we decide to kill." Do you even possess empathy for anyone you don't directly support? Wild.
It’s naive to say that kindness is going to stop violence from a group who in their founding charter call for the death of the opposing group. Hanas isn’t a good faith group and no amount of kindness will change that.
Any solution that will be durable requires that Hanna’s is not a part of it.
Sure, this is why the American Britain war is still waged today. It’s also why France has been relentlessly attacking England. And obviously, the British bombing of Ireland is what ended the IRA.
Besides peace, genocide is the only way to end Hamas. And that’s what you are cheering for. Israel is creating the next generation of terrorists by terrorizing the Palestinians.
Fundamentally it comes down to who is more at fault for the death of a human shield, the one who is using the human shield or the one who is attacking.
Clearly Hamas is more at fault. If you want peace tell Hamas to surrender and return the hostages.
How does "clearly" go against all societal norms in your mind? You seemingly know nothing about hostage negotiation, popular culture or just being human. Wolf Blitzer is more human than you. Think on that.
You think being less human than wolf blitzer makes you subhuman? Tell me what do you consider Palestinian civilians to justify their treatment? How does your heart not bleed for them compassionate one?
I think telling anybody that they know nothing about being human and saying some random person is more human than them is wrong, and given the context, frightening. The guy you said that to made two comments. Two. What did he say specifically that provoked such a response? I’d hope your heart bleeds for all innocent life lost. Palestine elected a group to lead them that specifically calls for the eradication of Jews, of course there’s going to be civilian deaths.
How do you feel about killing hostages or human shields? Because I may also be questioning your humanity shortly based on that answer. If you think that response is worse than the stakes of whats being discussed I would say that's very telling.
If you say Hamas is responsible after Israel kills the hostage/civilian, then your bias is clear. Here, If you'd like to hear a different take try this Mother Jones article. I find the expert within to articulate this point well.
It’s an interesting article, but it’s not an exhaustive look at the situation. Look buddy- the article is from the point of an American, and proscribes American actions that should be taken. While that is interesting, it doesn’t touch nearly at all on what the current parties should do (vis a vis Hamas and Israel) and it doesn’t apply ANY scrutiny to Hamas or suggest any actions they should take.
It’s not that it’s not an insightful piece, but it’s POV is limited, and can’t be applied generally.
Hey, if that's your opinion of it then I won't fault you for it. Perhaps as an American it appeals more to me, as I still really enjoyed his perspective as a Palestine born and raised Christian who has spent his life advising and speaking on the topic.
Thanks for taking the chance and giving it a look. Not many people would, so please accept my apologies for the harsh words earlier.
If the citizens of Gaza aren’t offered anything better, why would they gamble what little they have on overthrowing the local oppressors? They don’t really have anything to gain by overthrowing Hamas and trying to do so would be putting their lives and their families at risk. If Israel and the wider international community can offer them something better than life under Hamas and the Likud, they’d be much more likely to eschew Hamas’ control.
Either they’re armed and easy to identify or they’re not at which point there’s one less person to worry about shooting Israeli soldiers while their tunnel network is dismantled. I don’t see the problem.
Do you honestly not see the problem with letting out at the very least tens of thousands of people, possibly hundreds of thousands, and guarding them all well enough so that none of them can do any hostilities that can be done without smuggling arms out of Gaza (whether it's sabotage, inciting violent protests to keep the IDF occupied or terrorist acts using weapons smuggled into Israel from elsewhere)?
No, now you have two more people inspired to shoot Israeli soldiers and civilians. It’s like you don’t even understand how people’s minds actually work.
Israel’s strategy over the last 70 years created Hamas and has ensured that it has continued to hold power in Gaza. I don’t know what that other commenter is thinking, but I think characterising Israel’s strategy as carrying water for Hamas recruitment is a strong understatement. They’re not just carrying water; they’re pumping it from the ground, putting it in containers, divvying it up, and carrying it as far as they’ll go. Hamas exists because of Israel, much as how Al Qaeda and ISIS exist(ed) because of the US (and allied forces) and Russia.
My dude has never seen a customs office or checkpoint in his life
No its obviously because Israel doesn’t care about Palestinians lol. They wouldn’t have literally any of these issues if they hadn’t been doing like 80 years worth of state sponsored occupation and murder.
You really think the people in Gaza chose to willingly leave their former homes and land to move into a military enclave?
You are extremely naive if you think that a military checkpoint would solve this problem. Egypt was not able to stop Hamas terrorists and their supplies going back and forth through the Rafah border crossing to commit acts of terror in the Sinai peninsula for example. And that was during "business as usual", not in a situation where potentially hundreds of thousands of people would likely have to go through.
Bold of you to assume Egypt isn’t complicit in letting that happen lol.
Their military literally runs on bribery. So much so that there’s a local conspiracy there that Egypt provided Israel with all the intel during the 6 day war because they had no intention of fighting and negotiated to get Gaza off their hands in exchange for never having to worry about Israel again.
Again though, my point is that Hamas as an entity wouldn’t exist if Palestinians were considered regular citizens and not forced off from their own property.
Again though, my point is that Hamas as an entity wouldn’t exist if Palestinians were considered regular citizens and not forced off from their own property.
This may be true and it would be good to consider this when deciding what to do after Hamas is gone, but it doesn't change anything about current situation. The fact is that thinking a military checkpoint would filter out terrorists is incredibly naive, and whether Israel cares about the lives of civilians or not likely wouldn't change this particular issue at all.
Why does Israel not let people leave and use its famed intelligence services to identify who the Hamas fighters are? It is looking like the Israeli government simply prefers collective punishment or even genocide.
Just playing devil’s advocate, maybe it was hamas who bombed the house just to get sympathy. Hamas has shown that they don’t really care much about civilian casualties.
When you bomb 4000 children and have a "odd" recurring record of journalists dying as "collateral damage" then maybe the advocacy work could be put to better use elsewhere. Nobody has sympathy for Hamas here.
Idk if I’d go that far. Hamas is at least honest about it, though. They don’t try to hide the fact that they want every Jew dead. Israel will continue to genocide Palestinians while denying that the whole time.
Of course there are outliers of people that just want to murder, but the Hamas policy is not the murder of every colonist.
Now let’s not glorify Hamas too much and pretend they’re super nice people. They are a violent militant faction. But just like the Taliban, Hamas just want occupiers off their land. They’re not interested in going to America to kill all the non believers or any of that stupid stuff.
What unending string of terrorism? Before Oct 7, when was the last Israeli killed or injured by Hamas?
But to answer your question, the best response is securing the boarder and asking yourself “what could be the motivation for these attacks?”. It’s to try and seek/broker peace.
I’d suggest reading up on the IRA and the good Friday agreement to see how a government can end an unending string of terrorism. A relentless show of force is how the US created ISIS. That’s what Israel is doing right now.
Should all of Ukraine abandon their land because Russia declared their land an active war zone?
If someone invades your country do you not have the right to fight back? You're basically saying, leave or die. How does this logic not apply to the attacks of oct. 7th? Not defending said attacks, just pointing out how utterly brainless your statement is. It also sounds like approval of genocide.
The US southern border is so scary. Migrant workers enter the US every day, it’s terrible. These people are going to ruin America by looking for better lives for themselves and their families. /s
I’ve lived very close to the US/Mexico border most of my life. There aren’t any criminals and terrorists coming to live here. It’s all just people looking for better lives. The criminals smuggle drugs and people over, but they don’t move over here too often, and even if they do, it’s just to sell drugs. There are no terrorists amongst them, idk where you got that idea.
Don’t fall for right wing propaganda about the US/Mexico border.
The data encompasses seizures at southern border ports of entry, where most illicit drugs consumed in the United States, including fentanyl, are currently smuggled>
I literally said that there are criminals. The criminals move back and forth, though. They dont typically stay here in one place for too long. Not terrorists, though. At least not often enough that terrorists should be plural.
The border isn’t open, where are you getting that idea? They use tunnels and cross occasionally patrolled territory to get across. The border is just so big and desolate that there won’t be enough manpower to guard it all, and there is so much money in the drug trade that there will always be incentive for them to figure out a way to get across. The cartels even have submarines and drones.
If we want to stop the drug smuggling and criminals from coming over, we should make a safer and regulated drug market up here and take away their incentive.
I’m just letting you know as someone who has lived in border towns, the vast majority of people coming over just want to have better lives for them and their families. Nobody is terrorized down there. Sure, heinous stuff happens that involves criminal illegal immigrants, occasionally. We have criminals who commit heinous stuff that were born here, too.
It’s not a huge problem like you are making it out to be.
I can watch videos of hundreds of people walking through open fences into this country. .
No one ever said that most people didn’t want better lives. Unfortunately they won’t find it here and while they come over people bring in drugs , weapons. Human trafficking victims and so on. The border should be fully secure and we should implement immigration policies in line woth those around in the 60s and 70s
Here are current year and prior maps to 92' that you can tweak from the Committee to Protect Journalists. It really helps to change search parameters like causation, year, region etc, to get a very full view of how absolutely abnormal the number of journalist deaths are.
Your right, Israel should cease it's indiscriminate violence now and call for an immediate stabilization of the civilian population on the ground. That was a big leap for you man. Proud of you Dobby!
Yeah. Hamas is the only group which can really end this, though. Israel ending it involves a lot of dead people. They’re not going to stop until Hamas cannot make war any longer, and I can’t blame them.
A few miles. Gotta reach the rocket sites somehow. Or do you think they should just sit there and do nothing while genocidal lunatics lob rockets at civilians
It doesn’t matter. A defense is a defense. You can’t be stupid enough to seriously think they should just sit there and accept being under constant attack because the attacks aren’t very effective.
It does matter, that is the basis of proportionate response. A defense is an offensive when you leave your borders. These things matter, even if you don't care to believe so. Just like civilian deaths matter, no matter whose side is doing the killing. But 4000 kids dead and your still griping about what a raw deal Israel got. How broken can your mind be?
Proportionate response only works when anyone in Gaza cares about proportions. Hamas is on record being willing to sacrifice their entire population in their quest to kill as many Jews as possible. I don’t think this war they started is going to end until their capacity to make war is ended.
Fuck around, find out. This is the find out stage.
Oh, also, the numbers on civilian casualties in Gaza are sourced from Hamas. So, they’re worth about as much as used toilet paper lmfao
Yeah. Hamas is the only group which can really end this, though. Israel ending it involves a lot of dead people. They’re not going to stop until Hamas cannot make war any longer, and I can’t blame them.
Hamas doesn't care if those civilians and journalists die anymore than probably Israel does. It goes to show how stupid this is because everyday Israel becomes more the murderer, more the oppressor, more the aggressor, more the monster. I'm sure Hamas leadership love it because they literally have to do nothing as proud Israel marches into the history books as the land hungry maniac butcher of the middle east. This is how a 9/11 works and you buffoons are out here trying to roast Hamas marshmallows on the smoldering corpses of women and children.
Maybe tell that to the children (who are 2 out of every 5 murdered) who didn't even exist for this definitive election of yours. It's a fine comparison. It's been so long since either event that your blaming a currently suffering group for the mistakes of it's predecessors, and it rings just as gross and hollow. Why don't you tell me how women should dress so they don't get raped?
That’s the best fucking joke I’ve heard in a long time. Gazans have zero control over their situation. Maybe it’s telling that they elected Hamas, (almost 20 goddamn years ago when half their population wasn’t even born yet, I might add) who they felt were the only option to get them out of apartheid.
Bombing the shit out of population is a great way to breed extremists, and it will continue to happen as long as the ethnic cleansing continues.
Did you read anything past the first sentence? I swear you guys are all illiterate.
Isreal famously never did anything to provoke those rockets. They definitely didn’t spend the last 75 years systematically dispossessing Palestinians and subjecting them to extreme violence.
Jesus Christ are you talking about 1948? You are actually talking out of your ass and have no idea what you’re saying. Go read about the Nakba and come back.
Just 2 examples of many, many Zionist genocidal massacres. Read a fucking book.
Even if you were somehow correct, you’re basically arguing that Palestinian children today should pay for the crimes of nation-states 3 generations ago. Completely reprehensible.
Holy shit. literally just doing a "I know you are but what am I" for an hour. Hang it up SilentStorms, there's no reasoning with the terminal thickness of the meat on this guys head.
Yeah, I’m going to call it here. I did get him to say that the apartheid state is justified because of a war 75 years ago, so I’ll take the win.
If anyone else is reading into the trenches of this comment thread, please please read about the Nakba and the systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestine that continues today before bringing your thoughts into this topic. The reality of it is far worse than you can imagine.
If they spent just a fraction of their time reading a book about the region rather than screeching about the current conflict I think they’d be singing a different tune. I have found exactly one instance of Palestinian expulsion prior to the Arab nations declaration of war in 1948. The Deir Yassin massacre, which if you actually read the Wikipedia article on it, it provides evidence of the majority of Jews condemning the attack and even some helping the Palestinians. The person responsible for the attack even said he was told by his commanding officer that civilians were not to be harmed. All land acquisition prior to 1948 was legal. I can provide mounds and mounds of evidence proving it. You can condemn modern day Israel without parroting antisemitic lies.
Yep, exactly. And the Arab exodus from Israel was largely in collaboration with Arab military authorities, people trying to get out of the conflict zone so they could reoccupy after the victorious Arab armies drive the Israelis out.
They took power illegally years before the literal majority of Gaza citizens were even born.
Edit: My apologies, the ones that are almost legal adults would have been infants or toddlers at the time Hamas seized power. They really should have done something about that while they were learning how to walk and speak. /s
Okay, and? I’m sorry, my dude, but Hamas won the election before they illegally seized power, and it’s not like the people of Gaza have tried to do anything about that. Who is supposed to do it for them?
Yeah, it sucks that sometimes the citizens of a nation pay the price for the actions of their leaders. But who else can change their leaders for them?
You’re talking about a population with extremely limited resources that is literally 50% (or more) children that has been under two fascist boots for the last decade and a half. There does come a point where a level of desperation combined with a possibility of a better future will instigate a revolution, but right now? They don’t see a possibility of a better future. With Israel’s Likud on the other side of the wall and no resources to rebuild after a coup, what’s the point in gambling everything on maybe being able to overthrow the more local oppression?
Also, education in Gaza is very inconsistent and most political revolutions are started by people with education and nothing to lose.
Okay? What, am I supposed to say that the people supporting genocidal lunatics aren’t doing that because they have a shitload of kids? How does that change jack or shit?
Or do you think Israel shouldn’t defend themselves because the people relentlessly attacking them have a bunch of children? What is the path towards Hamas no longer launching rockets and attacks at Israel?
Well, since Israel is the party which is defending itself, they have the right to go after Hamas. And since Hamas hides among civilians, if the civilians of Gaza get tired of falling victim to collateral damage, they should talk to Hamas about it.
They’re the ones with control over the course of the war and how long it will take before it ends. They are the ones who control how many Palestinians die, at least until and unless Palestinians get tired of falling victim to the violence Hamas inflicts on them and does something about them.
I’m asking about your opinion. If Hamas refuses to cooperate, how many Palestinians does the IDF have to kill for it to be too many in your mind? When does the mass murder of Palestinian civilians exceed a reasonable metric for “defense”?
Well, I would say as few as reasonably possible to eliminate Hamas.
If Israel was mass murdering people, this would be very, very different. We don’t know how many people have died, but we do know that Israel has been taking significant steps to avoid collateral damage, and we know that has been frustrated by war crimes perpetrated by Hamas (using ambulances as military transport, using hospitals as military bases, shooting civilians who try to leave the conflict zone) so I’m not sure what you want for me.
I want Israel to take reasonable actions to limit civilian casualties while they prosecute the war against Hamas which Hamas started and is continuing. I want that war to end immediately, but I recognize it can only reasonably end with either Hamas surrendering or Hamas being degraded past the point of it being a threat.
I think you are misunderstanding how the demographic shift in Gaza has happened. They didn’t have a baby boom, it’s just that many of them do not survive very far into adulthood because of violence, health and environmental problems, and, when they can manage it, emigration.
Secondarily, I’m interested to hear how you justify calling Hamas genocidal without making the same observation about the Likud and Netanyahu.
Dude they have been having a huge population boom for a long time. Population growth rate is 2% per year. PER YEAR.
Secondarily, I’m interested to hear how you justify calling Hamas genocidal without making the same observation about the Likud and Netanyahu.
Likud and Netanyahu are far right nationalists. In that sense, they’re like Hamas. I am not a fan of them. The difference is what they’re willing to do to promote the interests of their state. Netanyahu and Likud have lines they won’t cross, Hamas doesn’t. If Netanyahu was as deranged as Hamas, they’d nuke Gaza and just go in and slaughter the population. I am glad they have those lines.
The fact that Netanyahu has supported Hamas in the past as a foil to the PA says otherwise to me. To a certain extent, Israel has made its own monster out of Hamas and Gaza through their policies and positions.
The trick is, if you destroy enough Palestinians and drive them from thier home ling enough, those people’s kids will have no connection to Palestine/Gaza and little desire to go back. After time the situation would solve itself.
If you continue to let hamas rule Gaza and commit acts of terror then Israel will retaliate insuring the continuation of the current situation until.the end of time.
Until Israel has all of the land, this won’t stop. They continue to murder and maim for decades, and when a Hamas retaliation happens, well then “this is war”.
Let’s be clear about something. This was ‘Christmas come early’ for Israel, as Hamas laid out an attack that gave them a cart blanche to go all out on Palestine, ignoring all wartime rules, as they commit actual genocide, confirmed by Israeli Holocaust scholars: wrmea.org/…/holocaust-scholars-say-israel-is-comm…
The solution should always start with de-escalation. Everyone knows this. Cops are trained to do this. Why is nobody policing Israel? They can’t even commit to saying what is going on in Israel is definitively Genocide.
On you being stupid and racist? I mean, I have a cursory knowledge. Seems dumb to call me an expert though. Oh, forgot how stupid the racist I'm talking to is.
No one’s agreeing with you. What’s funny is that your reading comprehension sucks.
Until a murderous genocidal country, supported unconditionally by the most powerful nation in the world, doesn’t stop bombing innocent civilians and murdering children, the civilians can’t survive.
The solution isn’t for the civilians to leave. It’s for the genocidal Zionist fascists to be tried in criminal court and face up to their crimes, just like any other country in the world would be.
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