@josh@timbray "Imagine that you interact with 50 people on a regular basis, all of whom got COVID. If 10 percent are long-haulers, that’s 5 ppl who are persistently sick. Some might not know what long COVID is or might be unwilling to confront it. The others might have every reason to hide their story. “Numbers like 10% are not going to naturally present themselves in front of you,” McCone told me. Instead, “you’ll hear from 45 people that they are completely fine.”" https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2023/04/long-covid-symptoms-invisible-disability-chronic-illness/673773/
One thing is for sure (and always has been)… Popularity is a terrible way to think of disease in the same way that it's a terrible measure of just about everything. The problem with opinion isn't that everyone has one, it's that it has very low utility. Popularity is inherently competitive, and competition, with its few "winners" and many "losers" is about as far from societal progress as you can get.
@josh@timbray given the number of people I know who have gotten #covid, including more than once, I am floored that I don't know anyone for sure that has #longCovid. And I am in communities that discuss #disability. I just think people have gotten really lucky or the #symptoms haven't popped up yet, because some are recent #infections.
@geographile@josh@timbray Or they're not admitting it to other people, or even themselves. "I've just had this lingering cough for months now, and somehow I get tired so much more easily, and I keep forgetting things" etc.
In the US where there is no safety net, you simply can't risk letting it be widely known because your job (& thus your health insurance) is is immediately at risk & there's no coming back from that if you're not old enough to access Medicare/Social Security
Long covid, with no known treatment, seems to be an illness where there's no upside to letting it be known you have it if you can possibly bluff your way through to continue picking up a paycheck
@josh@timbray If this were true, we'd expect to see a statistically significant increase in disability and/or post viral fatigue syndrome like symptoms in Western Europe compared to before the pandemic. And currently, we don't.
There could obviously be a shift in cause of PVFS.
People will kling on to work as long as they can. So they might be at work, performing poorly, and when returning home from work have a quick bite and go to bed, simply to repeat it on the next day.
Wait one or two more years and then conclude whether you still don't see an increase.
Yes, it is "only" a 10 to 20% risk per infection. So if you had around 2 tot 3 infections thus far, it is not implausible that you are completely recovered.
Females are more often affected than males, so for males the risk is probably less than 10%.
So for males it is even more plausible to be fine after a few infections.
@froukehe9@josh@timbray It is not even close 10-20% per infection with Omicron variants. And the vast majority of people I know have only been infected with Omicron variants.
Fwiw none of my infections were symptomatic in the first place. I found out through RAT.
@froukehe9@josh@timbray Eh? I mean, being sick from time to time is a part of life. I've had a acute bronchitis before where the couch lasted for about 2 months. It was a little annoying but I'll live.
Also not good for your immune system -never- get sick. (Not seeing you should go out and try to get COVID to build your immune system. But just, you know, act normal, and get sick from time to time.)
To aim for disability you can also jump in front of cars of from bridges, eat raw eggs and smoke cigarettes. No more worries about any of these things. You can't live in fear forever.
Do you see how disabling yourself has been promoted?
@froukehe9@josh@timbray I dunno, I smoke on occasions. I drink more alcohol than I probably should. I guess I do exercise regularly, but I love myself a hamburger!
Guess what, I'm 40, healthy, and exceedingly happy. I don't plan to live to 95 (I see it in my grandmother, no thank you very much). I'm sure all of the things that make me happy in life (like visiting clubs and getting bronchitis), will contribute to what kills me. That's cool too. I had a good run even if I'd die tomorrow.
It is easy to say, "I do not need to live until 95"
But Covid is unlikely to kill you. It is likely to disable you.
It is getting disabled that is the problem. No longer able to work and earn a living. Homeless, not being able to access care. Being left to rot in the streets.
Current good health provides some protection, but only to a limited extent.
@froukehe9@josh@timbray I guess I need to convince the government to provide better euthanasia options? If somehow I were to be permanently disabled by COVID (considering I work with hundreds of people, most of whom have had COVID multiple times, none of which it has caused long-term disability, that still seems fairly unlikely), I wouldn't really be interested in continuing to live anyway.
@timbray yeah, my sense of smell three and a half years on is like an old TV -- sometimes the signal is great, sometimes it's full of noise. But otherwise I'm in okay shape so I consider myself lucky.
@timbray It’s kind of wild that >50% of respondents have someone in their direct friends/family/coworker circle who has disclosed long COVID to them (or they themselves have it).
@timbray all those people who think they don't know somebody inevitably DO know somebody who "seems like they're always sick these days". Suggest to them that it's likely Long Covid and they react like you suggested they got it from pig fucking.
@timbray I met someone yesterday who told me she was unable to get out of bed for 3 months following her March 2020 Covid infection and that she was still easily winded and exhausted.
A friend also caught it in March 2020 and still has a lot of impairment today.
At least two coworkers became too ill to work in 2021. They couldn’t return even after 6 months of medical leave. Another suffered from fatigue and had to change jobs.
@timbray most of those I work with are suffering with what I perceive as profound aging, breathing, and advanced cardiovascular problems compared to people their age I remember 50 years ago. I'm older, never knowingly caught it, but I always wear a good mask and vaccinate. I lost a coworker that passed away earlier this weekend and we are down to 4 people including myself. The health of others is showing no mercy, all kinds of symptoms, and our western diet is doing them no favors. It's bad.
@timbray I have 2 family members who have had Covid but won’t talk about it. As one hasn’t been well since getting the gastro one and has ongoing gut issues. The other has no smell. Both have accepted this and still don’t wear a mask. One of them won’t talk about Covid because she gets anxiety 😦
@timbray post covid has essentially aged my mother inlaw 10 years. She can no longer work, she essentially was forced to retire. Her saviour is that she had income protection insurance
@timbray After 3 weeks of acute symptoms, I had 2+ months of brain fog, that was severe enough to interfere with my work. I'm less bad now, but I can't entirely convince myself that I'm back to 100% of my pre-covid state, in terms of both energy and focus.
@froukehe9@timbray Indeed, by most people's perception, I have recovered.
And, to be honest, by my own perception, I can do quite a few things that suggest that I'm still mostly intact, I can drive 10+ hours in a row, I can hike for a few hours.
At the same time, there are some things that require deeper focus (e.g. programming), that I don't think I can do for as long any more as I used to.
@timbray Two friends. One is almost back to normal after a year. The other is very bad, although she is making slow progress after 6 months from not being able to stand, to walking a few metres in the house.
@timbray I voted "Amongst friends", because none of us living in our home have ever tested positive for COVID (because we're careful). Some of my family members have tested positive, but haven't had long-COVID. Some friends have suffered long-COVID and they've had different effects, but always debilitating in some way.
@timbray Can't vote since I'm seeing this via Kbin, but I can say I suspect a lot of people I daily interact with have minor degrees of Covid effects that may or may not qualify as LC. The biggest one I notice even among myself is a persistent cough every once in a while. A few have had other recent illnesses (stroke or related) occur that may or may not have some tie-in, but that's the thing about LC, it's going to be a long time before we can really look back and say it was or wasn't a catalyst for many other things.
@timbray Probably going to be a very unpopular take but the fact that "Don't know anyone" is winning might be indicative of the overall societal/political inclinations and literacy of this instance.
Can't not think it. I apologize again.
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