@protonmail It's a problem that media reports these fines in absolute numbers. They sound so big, they risk getting people to sympathize with the tech companies and turn against the governments, much like that famous McDonald's coffee incident. They should report them as percentages of income or, as you, as time.
It's you, the consumer, that's losing out – it's your privacy that's at risk when #BigTech puts their profits first. That means higher prices, less choice, and no privacy.
💰 Fines paid by Proton in 2023: $0.
End-to-end encryption makes it impossible for us to access or collect your data with Proton Mail, Proton Calendar, Proton Drive, Proton VPN and Proton Pass.
@protonmail What is the purpose of ditching BigTech services when ProtonMail itself forces you to use the Google services in order to receive ANY notifications?
On the one hand, you spit on BigTech, and on the other hand, you make life difficult for users who ACTUALLY care about privacy (Anyone who doesn't have GSF installed on their Android phone knows what I'm talking about....)
push notifications are not a requirement for all users.
the reasoning behind your question seems based on a logical fallacy.
?maybe using nextcloud as an email client would let you get notifications via nextcloud push - not sure, but best avenue I can think of that you might want to investigate.
@doboprobodyne@aes256@protonmail this is an interesting idea. I was tinkering with getting protonmail bridge working on my server which hosts nextcloud (and has no display server), but couldn't figure out how to get protonmail bridge to work headlessly. Do you know how to make this work?
Also, what would the end result be? Does nextcloud do notifications without polling? If so, would there be any other benefit besides mobile push notifications via nextcloud? I use Thunderbird on desktop.
Apologies I don't use #nextcloud for email myself so I'm an ignoramous.
I use it for file storage/access, but it has integrations with #HomeAssistant, #OpenProject, and myriad other nifty server applications, all of which can thus use nextcloud push to tell you things.
I assume it uses polling but I defer to any documentation you find; to be sure the battery life on my mobile phone running #DivestOS (a robust form of degoogled #android I've found suitable for daily driving) is totally fine with it.
@aes256@protonmail Sadly there is no proper open-source implementation for push notifications yet that would be simple to implement. It would have to be integrated in Android ROMs, using a common standard shared by apps (or at least an alternative drop-in replacement for microG). Otherwise it's pointless. 😐
@Natanox@protonmail@aes256 it's very useable yeah, if the app implements it then it just works™ generally, the issue now is that not many apps have it implemented
@Natanox@aes256@protonmail interesting that @Tutanota has managed to get push notifications working on a google-free android. I can somewhat understand priority issues preventing them from having a good android app that doesn't rely on google, but I find it unacceptable for them to also crap on google while using google in their apps.
@ail@aes256@protonmail@Tutanota That's not it. While it is nice to have push completely without Google, any but the most cutting edge implementations of this feature are sucking your battery dry. Having every app doing this for themselves would obliterate both your battery as well as your mobile data. That's why only few apps choose this approach while others focus on other features.
Proton inventing their own stand-alone notification service for only their own services will be a scalability challenge with 100+ million users. And likewise the complaints of Proton apps suddenly draining a lot more battery.
@dazo@aes256 Thanks for the feedback, it has been passed along to the team. For now, push notifications are end-to-end encrypted and we provde the APKs here: https://protonapps.com/
@protonmail Thank you! I have been telling people for over a decade that many of these amounts only equate to hours and in some cases, their shareholders expect these fines as the price of doing business.
@protonmail
I see it this way: the base modifier on fines should rise (automatically, codified) for each company by the amount how fast they made back the fines, and the maximum cap to match the top earner.
F.e.:
Google's base modifier should go up 312.86 times (365×24/(24+4)).
Maximum cap: Amazon made 55.85/h. So the cap should from this year be 489.246×10³ billion (yep, almost 500 trillion US unfunny-money).
P.S. Do check my math, just in case.
CC: Europarlament
@protonmail Seems like the problem is that these fines aren't actually big. Just because $1 billion seems like a lot in comparison to a personal budget, doesn't mean it's a big fine for the likes of GAFAM. $1 billion should be on the low side when it comes to fines for them, but unfortunately we see it as big.
@protonmail …and that’s why the fines need to scale with profits, IMO; the fiscal equivalent of being hit in the head with multiple bricks; maybe just dissolve a company; if companies want to be people, then they can be subject to financial capital punishment; Monetarily execute that corporation.
@protonmail i have grand respect for protonmail. But this is populism.
Facebook has now inserted a paid option because of the lawsuit in Norway, that pushed forward the effect of EU law.
This post hinges on the belief that the stuff that the laws are ment towards are so valuable that the big tech will rather break the laws to make an additional profit. This is simply not true.
I think Proton is so good that it doesn't need to grasp so low.
Mhmm.. They are not "breaking the law" until they are found out to be.
They are not rather breaking laws to make an additional profit, they are just... Not declaring certain activities publicly for an acceptable level of risk.
A fatter fine would make the risk.. less acceptable.
But this creates a good oppertunity to say that Proton's assertion that big tech earn more than they lose by breaking the law is also incorrect.
They may earn enough that they don't go into the negatives, but they do not earn more than they lose from those fines. They will certainly earn even more than they already do if they dont have to pay fines.
Which is why facebook changed their practices right after the lawsuit in Norway was settled, then threads came to EU
If I ran things at Protonmail, I would take back this entire mistake, and make an announcement. And whoever had the final decition to approve this should maybe not be the one to do that in the future.
@protonmail Maybe time to start fining them on the basis of how quickly they can pay it off? e.g. they get fined, say, a years profits based on the last years figures, regardless of what that sum is. That might make them pause?
@protonmail Agreed. I think we need to stop trying to financially punish these big tech companies. They have lawyers that are smarter, faster, and better than elected officials and will find ways around regulation each and every time.
The regulations only hurt the little guy that just happened to be in the line of fire.
Instead, I think we should work to foster innovative companies that are finding unique solutions to combat big tech's invasive practices.
@damngoodtech@protonmail In the EU US businesses will abide by the rules or face sanctions. In the US it may be possible to buy politicians and legislation and capture regulators. It isn't true to anything like the same extent in the EU. EU regulations evolve and they do so democratically.
@samueljohnson@protonmail Definitely. My argument, though (and Proton's, I think) is that they are ineffective and not worth pouring time & energy into.
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