Secret Hamas Files Show How It Spied on Everyday Palestinians

The Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar has for years overseen a secret police force in Gaza that conducted surveillance on everyday Palestinians and built files on young people, journalists and those who questioned the government, according to intelligence officials and a trove of internal documents reviewed by The New York Times.

The unit, known as the General Security Service, relied on a network of Gaza informants, some of whom reported their own neighbors to the police. People landed in security files for attending protests or publicly criticizing Hamas. In some cases, the records suggest that the authorities followed people to determine if they were carrying on romantic relationships outside marriage.

Hamas has long run an oppressive system of governance in Gaza, and many Palestinians there know that security officials watch them closely. But a 62-slide presentation on the activities of the General Security Service, delivered only weeks before the Oct. 7 attack on Israel, reveals the degree to which the largely unknown unit penetrated the lives of Palestinians.

. . .

Everyday Gazans were stuck — behind the wall of Israel’s crippling blockade and under the thumb and constant watch of a security force. That dilemma continues today, with the added threat of Israeli ground troops and airstrikes.

MBFC
Archive

Luisp,

Open secret

chemicalprophet,

I feel like some internal US whataboutisms would actually be appropriate here.

Linkerbaan,
@Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

Oh look New York Times is trying to win another Pullitzer Prize.

Reminder that Leaked NYT Gaza Memo Tells Journalists to Avoid Words “Genocide,” “Ethnic Cleansing,” and “Occupied Territory”

Jafoo,

Governments spy on their own citizens? This is more shocking than learning Ivy League unis give preference to legacy students

Aceticon,

Oh, look, a Look-over-there New York Times article about how it’s the merelly authoritarian on the “other” side that are worse than the full blown Genocidal Fascists murdering an entire population - men, women and children, lots and lots of children - whilst claiming they’re only going after said autoritarians.

I did NAZI that coming.

Beetlejuice001,

Read the article, it’s very informative for once.

Aceticon, (edited )

The documents were provided to The News York Times by officials in Israel’s military intelligence directorate, who said they had been seized in raids in Gaza.

  • None of it confirmed by secondary independent sources.
  • Both writters of the article are Israeli and based in Israel.
  • And the timing is convenint for Israel.
  • Finally, lets not forget the New York Times’ very special track record of pro-Israel Propaganda.

So the sources for all that are Israeli IDF spooks, none of it is independently confirmed, the writters are Israelis in Israel, this newspaper has been caught not long ago printing pure Propaganda for Israel and the timing of all this “information” “coming out” is right smack when Israel is preparing to go into overdrive in their Genocide which is justified as being to “eliminate Hamas”.

Curiously if all of what Israel says is to be believed (including what they provided for this “article”), they’re killing Palestinian civilians in huge numbers to supposedly get rid of their oppressors, a level of doublespeak we hadn’t seen since Bush caused 1.4million Iraqi deads whilst claiming America was “freeing Iraqis from the murderous dictator Saddam Hussein”).

It’s funny that whilst originally I was inclined to believe the idea that Hamas are pretty straightforward authoritarians with a secret police and everything, after reading the article with a proper analyst’s eye (analysis of information being something I have professional experienced in) I have actually put that predisposition to believe it aside since that piece is written by people who are not even in a position to be unbiased, for a newspaper which is heavilly biased, anchored on paperwork provided by a single-source who are the spooks of the very army commiting Genocide and murdering children in cold blood in Gaza, and which of course has not been independently checked, and comes at a time when this type of story is exactly what the nation all of the above are biased in favour of would want to spread to reinforce their long running Propaganda messaging, so one can only conclude this hit piece almost certainly the most pure unadulterated Propaganda imaginable.

Beetlejuice001, (edited )

Regardless of your doubt, plus lengthy attempt to discredit the source and dissuade people from reading the article. It sounds not just plausible but likely. Sometimes motives, intentions and outcomes line up perfectly. As truth does. As always think critically and believe what makes sense to you personally

Since you’re a “propaganda expert” what would be the intention and desired outcome by the IDF releasing this?

Edit: added a question

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

Regardless of your doubt

Gullibility is not a virtue

Beetlejuice001, (edited )

When you get conflicting information on a crime scene, you gotta make judgment calls. To not find Israel guilty is being intellectually dishonest and ignoring reality

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

When you get conflicting information on a crime scene

When the crime scene is a mass grave and you’re getting “conflicting information” from the serial killer’s PR team

Aceticon,

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.

This piece has so many elements present in typical pro-Israel Propaganda (the IDF source, the absence of independent validation of what the source provided, the shamelessly pro-Israel newspaper, the Israli nationals writing it in Israel, the neat dovetailing with long running Israeli Propaganda messaging) that anybody with even the least amount of Skepticism or Analytical Experience will conclude that it should be treated as Propaganda until proven otherwise rather than believed real until disproven.

You need to want really really hard to see a swan here to think that this is a swan rather than a duck.

Beetlejuice001,

Yea, none of it aligns perfectly with what appears to have happened in real life. Netanyahu is completely credible and not a dishonest war criminal. There is no internal conflict in Israel. You’re probably right.

PopcornTin,

It didn’t happen.

It only happens a little bit.

It happens and that’s a good thing.

Beetlejuice001,

And it’s their fault

Beetlejuice001,

Since you’re a “propaganda expert” what would be the intention and desired outcome by the IDF releasing this?

Aceticon, (edited )

“Hamas is Evil, hence why we have to attack Rafah to get rid of them.”

I mean, “Hamas is Evil hence everything is morally acceptable to getting rid of Hamas” is the sole foundation and support for ever single evil action of Israel such as destroying hospitals killing medical personnel (“they’re Hamas”, “Hamas was there”, “there was a Hamas tunnel under it”), blow up entire blocks with 2000lb bombs (“we were targetting a Hamas operative”), blow up school playgrounds (“we were targetting a Hamas operative”) and so on.

The more Evil Hamas is made to look the more “Moral” justification the IDF has to do destroy and murder everything Palestinian claiming that it’s to “destroy Hamas”, as Netanyahu frequently says.

There is literally no other moral argument from Israel for their Genocide. These people aren’t even especially imaginative.

So this story is just adding another bit of cement on that very same structure supporting the actions “the most moral army in the World” and it’s not even especially important: it even has the wiff of Military Intelligence bureaucrats coming up with something to show the boss they’re doing some work and it getting published because the New York Times has no journalistic criteria at all when it comes to stories that portray pro-Israel in a good light (probably has no journalistic criteria at all for anything).

You need to be trying really, really hard to imitate the Three Wise Monkeys when it comes to Israel, to not yet have noticed that “we have to get rid of Evil Hamas” is their only justification for doing the most evil stuff imaginable.

Theirs is such a stupidly simple strategy that is painfully obvious for those with even the smallest amount of brains who aren’t hasbara sockpuppets, no need for “propanda expertise” (whatever that is).

Beetlejuice001, (edited )

So that’s why you believe this is propaganda versus a true account of what’s happening?

For someone so adamant in their conviction it comes across weak af. I am much more inclined to believe the Palestinians. Your wall of text does not negate that fact.

Israel has finally lost in the court of public opinion, no matter the amount of manipulation

Aceticon, (edited )

Conviction?!

You’re clearly coming at it from the point of view of the indoctrinated - you pre-believe something (i.e. are prejudiced) and then seek a way to interpret reality to yield “conclusions” that match your conviction and are not at all even trying to analyse it rationally.

Any rational analysis of this “article” in the current context and given the past explicit biases and actions of those who participated in making it will yield the conclusion that what’s in there has a high probablility of being Propaganda and cannot be trusted to be truthfull.

It really boils down a pretty old principle: “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”. I totally understand defaulting to believe anything sourced from the IDF and delivered via the NYT in the past, before all this started, but at this point after all they said that turned out to be outright lies along with what they did using such lies as justification, we’re very much on the domain of “shame on you” when it comes to such sources as the New York Times and the IDF.

Does it mean this article is with absolute certainty Propaganda and not actually true? Of course not: there is a small probability that it’s not Propaganda, since like “Iraq’s Weapons of Mass Destruction” there is a core of believability to it (which curiously is both like a true story AND like the best Propaganda), so only time will tell if it’s mostly true or if, like the “weapons of mass destruction”, it is just Propaganda.

The rational take on this article (so, not the take of those driven by something irrational like conviction, which is why I so often emphasied Skepticism and Analysis on my posts on this) is to treat it as having zero informational value, unless independent information arises that clarifies it.

Beetlejuice001,

You keep mentioning Iraq’s supposed Weapons of Mass Destruction justification which Bush spewed out. You might be surprised not everyone believed it. War is a racket, we know this. It is common knowledge not a propaganda conspiracy.

This article may be propaganda (highly doubt it though).but the Motives and intentions line up perfectly so yea I’m gonna believe the religious zealots are acting as religious zealots.

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

what did you expect from a group created and funded by israeli intelligence to dismantle peaceful pro peace palestinian leftist organizations?

bartolomeo,

I know they were funded in part by Israel to destroy Palestinian unity and give Israel an excuse to kill more Palestinians and take their land, but was Hamas really created by Israel?

sazey,

Maybe Israel didn’t found Hamas as such but they certainly nurtured it like a baby bird.

cupcakezealot,
@cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

they basically created it in the same way us created al qaeda

UnderpantsWeevil,
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

A legal fiction needed to function as a scapegoat for US trials in absentia?

Or are we talking about a tool of the East Asia Cold War, intended to operate as a front for paramilitary operations in the Russian and Chinese back country?

VirtualOdour,

This argument is made a lot in conspiracy circles and anti isreal communutues, however the argument comes from the fact that Isreal paused prior conflicts for humanitarian or political reasons instead of actually destroying them with superior force. The thing you want them to do now, go easy and end the conflict early is also what you’re complaining about them doing before.

AstridWipenaugh,

Shlomo Brom, a former deputy to Israel’s national security adviser, told the New York Times that an empowered Hamas helped Netanyahu avoid negotiating over a Palestinian state, saying the division of the Palestinians helped him make the case that he had no partner for peace in the Palestinians, thus avoiding pressure for peace talks that could lead to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state. (source)

Damn those anti-israeli national security advisors.

VirtualOdour,

Did you read the article? Exactly as I said the argument that is that allowing aid info Palestine helped prop up hamas.

The same people that complain Isreal does not let aid in push this argument based on them letting too much aid in.

AstridWipenaugh,

Why do you insist on conflating funding a terrorist organization with cash with providing humanitarian aid via food and medicine?

VirtualOdour,

Because that’s what this argument is, they’re talking about UNRWA and similar groups that are officially separate from hamas but in practice are largely controlled by hamas.

Do you really not follow any of this? You have such strong opinions for someone that doesn’t seem to follow the big talking points at all. I get if you want to disagree but not knowing the arguments make you seem very uninformed.

Colour_me_triggered,

No shit. By the way I’m not defending netanyahu. He’s a pos.

anticolonialist,

The NYT is garbage state propaganda with no more journalistic credibility than the Enquirer

mholiv, (edited )

The NYT definitely has problems, but saying it has the same credibility as the Enquirer just makes you look ill informed. 🤡

Beetlejuice001, (edited )

While I certainly agree to an extent, They’re not quite as bad as the National Enquirer, that’s ridiculous. I read the Archive version and it is very detailed and informative. Describes how Hamas, who we know is paid by Israel, spied and monitored Palestinians., to control opposition and prevent a two state solution. It’s no wonder everything turned out the way it did, Israel wanted it to. Bring on your downvotes bots

Edit:autocorrect

VirtualOdour,

You ‘know’ they’re paid by Isreal? I’m guessing you know this because of totally real sources based on evidence…? No? Oh a feeling in your tummy that you want to be true because it makes you feel better to avoid reality and imagine the world as black and white? OK.

Beetlejuice001, (edited )

This better?

timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-…

nytimes.com/…/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.ht…

…cnn.com/…/h_4e542b6c91fa6b423bae6789075d8358

irishtimes.com/…/buying-quiet-inside-the-israeli-…

www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/…/ar-AA1lhyxu

thenation.com/…/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/

There are many more articles but it’s obvious you’re arguing in bad faith. Does that make your tummy fuzzy?

VirtualOdour,

Yes they are arguing that by allowing aid info Gaza this props up hamas they are right wing people saying that Isreal should have been harder on hamas - you probably think Isreal should allow more aid into Palestine so either you want to prop up hamas, you don’t really belive this logic or consistency doesn’t matter to you and you’ll use any excuse to criticize Isreal.

Beetlejuice001,

You’re simply arguing in bad faith and dishonesty

Also you forgot to switch to your alt account

VirtualOdour,

What are you blathering about?

Beetlejuice001, (edited )

Feign ignorance, move goalposts. I don’t debate liars

VirtualOdour,

You made baseless accusations about alt accounts that doesn’t even make sense and now me not knowing what you’re trying to say is evidence I’m a liar? Are you OK? Or are you just deceptive and looking for an out on a debate because you realize that your bluster won’t work and you have no facts or cohesive arguments?

efstajas,

Please. Of course the NYT are far from infallible, but “no more journalistic credibility than the Enquirer” is just a ridiculous statement. There’s a lot to criticize about their reporting on Gaza, but at the same time they’ve published some of the rawest and most eye-opening coverage of the situation in Gaza I’ve come across.

blahsay,

The Palestinians will be better off with hamas gone thankfully. High price for voting in a terror group though.

zbyte64,

A price paid mostly by those who didn’t even have a chance to vote.

NoneOfUrBusiness,

Not when the IDF is taking their place.

lemmyaccount01, (edited )

I mean they are an oppressive police state just like israel ofc they spy on their own residents and prolly share the info with IDF in case they wanna get rid of someone they don’t agree with or they’d be overthrown long ago if it wasn’t for their authoritarianism and the tacit support/indifference from the israeli forces .Not all the journalist and dissidents that are being targeted/killed are done solely by israeli intel they are being fed that info from various sources including hamas. It would be a shocker if they aren’t working together and sharing intel whenever it suits them to do so. Just like usa and their frenemies in Iraq or Afghanistan Ukraine or wherever they are operating. the western media will take this and turn it into a one sided hamas bad article without even mentioning israels complicit enabling policies.

Mrkawfee,

Running a hamas hit piece during Israel’s genocide. You know it’s going to be legacy media.

EatATaco,

Regardless of how bad Israel is, Hamas is trash. Are we just supposed to pretend or ignore this fact because we are disgusted by Israel?

suction,

Americans have to take a side and treat everything like sports, didn’t you know?

EatATaco,

How do you know the poster is American?

kerrigan778,

It just doesn’t seem like the most relevant headline right now, “Hamas still also bad” is a bit water is wet.

EatATaco,

The article talks about how a lot of what was going on was “largely unknown.” This is quite literally new information were hearing about in this piece.

Everyday we hear about the horrors Israel is inflicting on Palestine, that’s certainly a “water is wet” thing right now. I hope you don’t think they should stop reporting on this.

Aceticon, (edited )

“This just in: the run of the mill authoritarians on the ‘other’ side are bad” while a new bunch of Nazis are aiming at a new Holocaust of an entire population.

It all has the heavy stink of the pro-Holocaust propagandists desperatelly trying to distract public opinion with a bit of whataboutism.

efstajas,

What are you talking about? The article includes new information that has been uncovered, it’s far from “Hamas is also still bad”. Do you think they shouldn’t report new information on Hamas?

Beetlejuice001,

Hamas is just Israel secret service in Palestine

xc2215x,

Hamas or not, Israel has gone too far.

theotherverion,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Madison420,

    Fine fair whatever, it doesn’t need to be at the cost of tens of thousands of innocents. That’s literally the same logic Hitler used to go all super eugenics murder monster on the world population.

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Lebensraum. Germans just needed a little living space, is all. So those vicious feral tribes in Eastern Europe had to go.

    SphereofWreckening,

    Hamas likely wouldn’t even exist right now if not for the failure of Israeli leadership. Specifically Netanyahu’s The issue of Hamas is almost entirely Israel’s own fault.

    theotherverion,

    So the fact people of Gaza elected Hamas was Israel’s fault. That actually made me realize that the fact Slovaks elected a terrible populist government is actually Austria’s fault. I guess we need to attack them…

    zbyte64,

    If Austria required Slovak to register the birth of their children with them so they may later be eligible to vote, then you might be right.

    SphereofWreckening, (edited )

    People of Gaza elected Hamas

    There hasn’t been an election in Gaza since 2006 and your purposely-obtuse ass knows it.

    If Israel wasn’t committed to upholding an apartheid state, and now genocide, maybe groups like Hamas wouldn’t exist. Which again, is a group that Israel itself propped up and allowed to take power in Gaza.

    Madison420,

    Bro 90% (literally) of the Gazan population weren’t even alive during the last election. The didn’t vote for shit most of the population is like 23 or younger and have lived with Hamas bullying and Israeli super extra bullying for literally their entire life. Most haven’t even had a like full feast in their life ever and at the current pace likely won’t ever if they even survive.

    theotherverion,

    That still doesn’t change the fact they elected them. Even 18 years ago electing a terrorist organization was dangerous.

    Also, Hamas still has quite high support in Palestine: fdd.org/…/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palest…

    Madison420, (edited )

    Nobody is in a warzone asking poll questions don’t be obtuse, Numbers from before Israel started intense genocidal actions are irrelevant dude.

    Ed: also your source notes opinions but doesn’t provide their source for the numbers.

    Ed fdd’s original mission statement.

    “provide education to enhance Israel’s image in North America and the public’s understanding of issues affecting Israeli-Arab relations”.

    Unbiased indeed.

    theotherverion,

    Here is another source then: apnews.com/…/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-po…

    But of course, when the ideal of palestinian people is refuted, it’s either an irrelevant poll or wrong time of asking…

    Madison420,

    Notice opinion prominently displayed in that headline?

    theotherverion,

    What opinion are you talking about?

    Madison420,

    It’s literally an opinion poll and says as much in the text of the link you provided…

    theotherverion,

    Yes, because the narrative is that palestinians elected hamas 18 years ago, it cannot be their fault Hamas has the power.

    But even today polls show hamas has a big support basis.

    Madison420,

    Polls that illustrate their own bias. You’ve yet to offer a source that isn’t self admitted opinion.

    theotherverion,

    Here you go: www.pcpsr.org/en/node/963

    Madison420, (edited )

    You should read your links. This one is the same flaws source as the first, notice the founders name.

    Ed: and they tell you the margin of error is huge because of war (go figure) and specifically state it was taken in non combat zones, ie zones held by Israel… This isn’t hard maybe, your point is dumb move on.

    Despite the large representative sample, the margin of error for this poll is +/-4. The increase in the margin of error is due to the lack of precision regarding the number of residents who stayed in their homes, or in shelters, in the northern parts of the Gaza Strip which we did not sample.

    theotherverion,

    Of course each poll that does not favor Palestinians is biased and incorrect. Ideal of a palestinian man cannot be challenged.

    Edit: You are talking about bias yet you don’t know what side it it shifted towards.

    Madison420,

    All of them? Dunno about that, but the ones that specifically state they are inaccurate and biased you should probably take their word for it.

    Ed: also yes I do in fact I mentioned it. Ie. The oil was at isreali safe zones, how likely do you think expressing “fuck Israel” sentiment is going to be when everyone with a gun around you is Israeli.

    SphereofWreckening,

    Popularity =/= Democratically elected.

    And of course Hamas is seen as popular. Anyone would be popular when the opposition (Israel) is indiscriminately bombing civilian targets en masses. Or even massacring them just for running up to collect food aid. Food that Palestinians in Gaza are utterly desperate for due to famine like conditions in the region caused by Israel.

    Aid that Israel has been purposely and continuously shutting off from the civilian population.

    theotherverion,

    And again rant about Israel and how it is its fault that they elected a terrorist organization… It just couldn’t be Palestinians fault!

    SphereofWreckening,

    The fact that you don’t even care about the Palestinian apartheid, and now genocide, speaks volumes enough about you honestly. Have fun defending genocide.

    theotherverion,

    What genocide I am defending here and what genocide are you talking about?

    Madison420,

    The current one, wtf you even talking about.

    SphereofWreckening, (edited )

    Hey look, you’re being a purposely-obtuse ass again. I’d say you’re just this stupid, but since you’re all over these comments you clearly have an agenda to push. Luckily no one here is buying your bullshit lmao

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    people of Gaza elected Hamas

    Gaza hasn’t had an election since 2006 and the average age of a Gaza resident is under 18.

    Feel free to work out the math on that. But imagine if George Bush Jr was nominally still president while the US existed under Canadian military occupation for the last 18 years.

    theotherverion,

    We can take a look at an actual poll: fdd.org/…/poll-hamas-remains-popular-among-palest…

    UnderpantsWeevil,
    @UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world avatar

    Gotta wonder how many of those pollsters got cut down by Israeli sniper fire or obliterated by 2000 ton US-made bombs to go tent-to-tent and secure those those numbers.

    gasgiant,

    Oh my god that’s awful.

    Nearly as bad as an agency that does that to their own people and that of another nation.

    Not seeing a lot of similar articles about Shin Bet though. Wonder why…

    FluorideMind,

    Overt Israeli actions show how it genocides everyday Palestinians.

    footoro,

    Yeah no shit Hamas is an authoritarian corrupt movement. That still doesn’t justify the genocide on Palestinians and the apartheid, occupation and systematic rape, abuse, torture, and also the Israeli mass surveillance that is used to blackmail people or even track them down to murder them.

    ConfusedPossum,

    If anything Hamas is the product of the systematic marginalization and humiliation of the Palestinians

    state_electrician,

    Yeah. There’s, sadly, room in the world for more than one murderous government. I also have no doubt that, if Hamas had the opportunity, they would kill all Israelis. But that is still no excuse for the ongoing slaughter the IDF is committing. An atrocity remains an atrocity.

    Beetlejuice001,

    Hamas wouldn’t bite the hand that feeds. Hamas is controlled opposition, directed by Israel, in Palestine to prevent a real opposition group wanting a two state solution from forming

    Pelicanen,

    If anything, it makes the current conflict even worse: Not only have gazans been forced to suffer from israeli occupation, they have also been systematically oppressed by Hamas and now they’re being slaughtered for their sake. I wouldn’t be surprised if this pushed more people towards Hamas or other terrorist organizations in the long run.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    They’re being slaughtered because the goal of israel is to ethnically cleanse Gaza and expand the israeli Lebensraum.

    Hamas is not the target, just the excuse.

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