@RickiTarr We know the industry is predatory & causes harm to children, but we don’t restrict or regulate their “working” because it’s “Hollywood”. Both my grandparents started in the industry while children. My gran’ma started acting at 10, in the 30’s & my gramps started sweeping the editing floor at 12, in the ‘20’s. They were all kinds of messed up. Today, they don’t fare much better. With all the work restrictions for kids, we still sell them to Hollywood. 🤷♀️
@RickiTarr Kids should be allowed to act, but unfortunately the American feature film and television industry is too childish and irresponsible to employ any of them. They can't even get their misbehavior under control with fully unionized adult actors.
@RickiTarr I say, generally no. There are way too many predators in these industries. Plus, I think much of it violates the spirit if not the letter of child labor laws. I still think you could make exceptions, & I’m a reasonable person (or try to be), but after reading what I’ve read over the years about what child actors, models, & musicians go through, no.
@WillA763@RickiTarr In Britain we have a lot more safeguarding requirements for child actors (on linear broadcasters) and they are quite stringent; even so there have been failings and predators exposed (often only discovered years later), and the cost of compliance with modern rules is viewed as so high a lot of production companies no longer make live action shows featuring kids (other than the state broadcaster BBC, and even they have way fewer productions than 30-40 years ago)
@RickiTarr As a former child performer, I have literally never seen a peer who wasn't subjected to predatory behavior at the Very Least. These are kids who had parents who would pull them out as soon as things got fishy. Not all had them. Even those who do saw a lot of ugliness.
@RickiTarr not as a full time job. I'm fine if it's here and there as a side gig.. That would be like my kids playing sports or doing clubs after school. But no child should regularly be on set 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for longer than a day or two.
How long do child actors in leading roles actually spend on set? I never thought about this before.
@QueenOfCoffee Tons of different rules depending on age, and whether it's a school day, but about 5 working hours, plus 3 hours of on set schooling, more if it's not a school day the next day
@RickiTarr yeah... I don't love that. Maybe if it was just a couple days a month it would be fine, but even a couple days a week like that would give me concerns as a parent.
@RickiTarr I'd be curious to know the breakdown of positive child actor success stories vs. negative ones. The failures always get sensationalized in the tabloids, and even stars who seem to be well-adjusted adults - Drew Barrymore or the late Shirley Temple - have horror stories from their childhood. But I wonder if there are former child actors who can speak to a loving and positive experience that they would be happy to repeat. If so, how many?
@TimWardCam@RickiTarr
A kid playing pretend at mining is different. Not saying there is no danger. Just that kids do want to act sometimes. And there is a way to minimize exposure. The danger with sets is the people. In person and what they write. I think it's what is at the heart of this.
No kids in any movies or TV shows is another extreme that would require a big culture shift because we would have to be ok with adults playing like that. I think that's what has made it different.
Maybe the way film curiosity and the industry has evolved too. The "you could be in movies" thing. You guys are on it. We're mostly all poor, and something that seems like a ticket out has appeal. I think that's enabled it. Parents become more willing to say ok.
@gettingcomputey@RickiTarr When I acted on the stage (as a kid in the crowd in amateur operatics) we were allowed to act one night in two, with no time off school (so they needed two sets of kids to play alternate nights - can't remember when the rehearsals were but presumably evenings after school).
I looked up TV because I always heard something about 6 hours, but turns out it's aged tiered. School is on set, but I mean that's like a substitute teacher day.
SAG Minor rules:
Minors less than six (6) years of age are permitted at the place of employment for six (6) hours (excluding meal
periods, but including school time, if any). (2) Minors who have reached the age of six (6) years but who have not
attained the age of nine (9) years may be permitted at the place of employment for eight (8) hours (excluding meal
periods, but including school time). (3) Minors who have reached the age of nine (9) years but who have not
attained the age of sixteen (16) years may be permitted at the place of employment for nine (9) hours (excluding
meal periods, but including school time). (4) Minors who have reached the age of sixteen (16) years but who have
not attained the age of eighteen (18) years may be permitted at the place of employment for ten (10) hours
(excluding meal periods, but including school time).
@RickiTarr I think the career level is where I say no. Too much time day in, day out in an adult environment.
And I know that there are hour limits to how long kids are on set per day, but the limitation is against the crazy hours you work in film.
It's toughest once you have a hit. That kid is now part of a ride a whole crew is taking to make a living. And who those people are will count in how it affects them.
That is where I think it matters though. Some acting is nbd. Very cool experience with lots of free snacks. Being a star on a hit show for several seasons, though --your parents better be fucking solid, because that could mess you up. All those grifty people coming around. Some with power and money. And hopefully your parents are not the grifty ones.
@RickiTarr I don't think they should, and I'd extend that to professional sports as well.
Remember all that kerfuffle in the 2022 Winter Olympics with Kamila Valieva failing a drugs test but allowed to compete anyway?
The stress on her must have been horrible. If an adult got caught doping and suffered as a result, I'd have little sympathy, but she was a child. No way should she have been put in that position.
@RickiTarr I worked in entertainment for a few decades until recently and worked at Discovery where I was very, very vocal about a reality show being edited there that I thought was at least emotionally damaging the children, if not abusive. I was simply not asked back onto my show for the next season. When I brought up the abuse part 75% of the people laughed and said, "I know, right!" but said nothing or thought it made good TV. Also, turned out I was right.
@RickiTarr The "stringent rules" and "when not in school" are kinda overlapping. Any "stringent rules" should automatically enforce the mandatory prioritising of education over frivolity. And actively criminalise violations and prosecute violators for child (labor) abuse.
One of the things that (well run, current) movie productions with child stars do, is have a full time teacher at the production location, so "when not in school" means "scenes with the kids in them have shortened filming days, to allow time for lessons", and doesn't have to mean "movies with child actors can only be set during a few months of the year and child actors from different hemispheres can never work together".
I'd argue that most full time school pupils get less than three hours of effective education a day. No fault of the teachers - it's just that teaching 20 kids limits how long you can give to each one.
My neighbour's kid years ago was home schooled. Far from being a big time commitment, as the only pupil in the class she easily cracked through the provincial curriculum at 2 hours a day, and had the rest of the day for swimming, karate, music, etc.
@dragonfrog@ironclad_chomskyan It's not just education that is important about spending time with people your age. I was Homeschooled myself, and there are lots of issues with that as well.
@RickiTarr@dragonfrog Education is not about schooling, and frankly with a few exceptions I would say schools mostly ruin people's academic interests. But the act of going to school is important... home schooling takes away crucial social interactions.
Again - this kid who was my neighbour had loads of good quality interactions with her friends - having them over, visiting them, bike rides, playing music together, getting ideas for projects and pursuing them, etc.
Her friends just weren't school friends like most of mine were at that age, they were friends from the neighbourhood, from karate lessons, swimming lessons, guitar lessons, and friends she met through those friends.
I can't speak to your experience Ricki, but IMO there's a broad spectrum between "home schooling" so the kid isn't exposed to ungodly influences like music with drums and girls who wear trousers, and "home schooling" so the kid has more time and freedom to pursue their own interests, projects, and friendships outside of the questionably healthy environment of a school.
@dragonfrog@ironclad_chomskyan I'm sure there are, my issue is more with how states handle it, and most parents aren't equipped to teach every subject.
@RickiTarr a lot of kids genuinely want to act and are good at it. And they should be supported just like academically gifted students are allowed to take in extra classes and try out Olympiads. But - a LOT of problems arise due to the fact that they aren't just acting to hone their skills, they start earning. Becoming a bread winner inverts the parent-child roles badly. Plus there's very little protection for child actors who are mistreated and overworked on set.
@4d3fect@RickiTarr That's an excellent point. Is the family interested in and capable of protecting the child actor's best interests, instead of focusing on the money and reflected fame?
@4d3fect@RickiTarr The problem with unqualified no's is that if you absolutely to not allow children to act professionally, then you cannot have any movies or TV shows that show children. Which would be really weird. Unless you CGI/deepfake them in ... and once you open the door of deepfaking child characters, how do you convince the film/TV/videogame industry it needs actors at all?
Believe me, the industry would like NOTHING BETTER.
@RickiTarr@4d3fect Any world where there are NO CHILDREN WHATSOEVER, outside of a story consciously built around that scenario for some reason, sounds like some kind of weird Stepford scenario to me. And it raises the question, "If there are no children, where do the people come from? Are they manufactured or something?"
@RickiTarr i think there is a mountain of evidence that the child acting issues have improved from the early early days but have created all new issues in the last few decades.
there needs to be a lot more protections in place that have contingencies and checks and balances in them to prevent a lot of the nonsense going on now.
@RickiTarr
I am really conflicted. The children actors from my generation grew up and struggled. I think they live in a fake world full of fake people and don't learn the skills needed in a real world combined with those pushing them to do more on the money making end. Definitely some overhaul is needed.
However, if conditions are right and safe, acting can basically be like a hobby or a sports activity, like many children practice.
Always, as long as they are cared for properly, it is certainly not more harmful than ballet classes or high intensity sports (which I consider to be more dangerous).
@RickiTarr
>are children able to have free will and able to control the way they speak to sound in a "professional" or are they mindless drones that arent mentally capable of talking professionally until there 16
what are you trying to say. I genuinally dont know. can children act professional? or should they?
@kpl@RickiTarr That's how I read it too. Was trying to picture my kids turning in a job application with a resume and taking themselves very seriously instead of yammering away about Roblox and Pokemon.
@RickiTarr I was definitely thinking behaving like a professional and was like...but kids are adorable when dressed up in little suits, who would be against that? 🤣
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