jbzfn, to taringa
@jbzfn@mastodon.social avatar

🤔 FORTRAN and COBOL Re-enter TIOBE Index

"So we have two legacy languages in the TIOBE Top 20 for rather different reasons - COBOL skills are still needed to sustain vital legacy (or should that be out-dated) systems. Fortran, on the other hand, has a role to play at the cutting edge of scientific research and can be expected to have an expanding role in its "Modern" incarnation."

https://www.i-programmer.info/news/239-awards-and-prizes/17194-fortran-and-cobol-re-enter-tiobe-index.html

ovid, to Lisp
@ovid@fosstodon.org avatar

, , and are three powerful programming languages that share a common feature.

Nobody knows how the hell to capitalize them.

tetrislife,

@ovid and programmers also complain they are not capitalized right.

@hetoug if Perl can be powerful, so can Javascript!

@tripleo

paul, to python
@paul@fedi.nlpagan.net avatar

I'm working on removing an important spreadsheet from Google Docs, and maintain that in LibreOffice.
Thing: In G Docs I wrote a few macros to sort the file in various ways, using 4 and 5 fields.
Libre Calc only allows 3 sort fields, and the G-Doc macros don't work in Libre Calc.

I've written a program to convert a CSV to a file with fixed length, and writing a program to do the sorting for me.

Sorting multiple columns in Python is a PITA. In COBOL it's laughably simple.

I wish something like the IBM S/34 would exist for Linux. That would make this even simpler.

ovid, to javascript
@ovid@fosstodon.org avatar

I started programming in 1982. Though I'm known as a developer, I tried to remember every other languages I've programmed in.

, #C, 6809 Assembler, , VBScript (and its many variants), , , , , , , Easytrieve, and probably a few others.

I wish I had gotten a job in Prolog, primarily because I loved what I could create with it. I don't love programming; I love creating.

What are you languages?

abucci, to ProgrammingLanguages
@abucci@buc.ci avatar

A weird thing about being 50 is that there are programming languages that I've used regularly for longer than some of the software developers I work with have been alive. I first wrote BASIC code in the 1980s. The first time I wrote an expression evaluator--a fairly standard programming puzzle or homework--was in 1990. I wrote it in Pascal for an undergraduate homework assignment. I first wrote perl in the early 1990s, when it was still perl 4.036 (5.38.2 now). I first wrote java in 1995-ish, when it was still java 1.0 (1.21 now). I first wrote scala, which I still use for most things today, in 2013-ish, when it was still scala 2.8 (3.4.0 now). At various times I've been "fluent" in 8086 assembly, BASIC, C, Pascal, perl, python, java, scala; and passable in LISP/Scheme, Prolog, old school Mathematica, (early days) Objective C, matlab/octave, and R. I've written a few lines of Fortran and more than a few lines of COBOL that I ran in a production system once. I could probably write a bit of Haskell if pressed but for some reason I really dislike its syntax so I've never been enthusiastic about learning it well. I've experimented with Clean, Flix, Curry, Unison, Factor, and Joy and learned bits and pieces of each of those. I'm trying to decide whether I should try learning Idris, Agda, and/or Lean. I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting a few languages. Bit of 6502 assembly long ago. Bit of Unix/Linux shell scripting languages (old enough to have lived and breathed tcsh before switching to bash; I use fish now mostly).

When I say passable: in graduate school I wrote a Prolog interpreter in java (including parsing source code or REPL input), within which I could run the classic examples like append or (very simple) symbolic differentiation/integration. As an undergraduate I wrote a Mathematica program to solve the word recognition problem for context-free formal languages. But I'd need some study time to be able to write these languages again.

I don't know what the hell prompted me to reminisce about programming languages. I hope it doesn't come off as a humblebrag but rather like old guy spinning yarns. I think I've been through so many because I'm never quite happy with any one of them and because I've had a varied career that started when I was pretty young.

I guess I'm also half hoping to find people on here who have similar interests so I'm going to riddle this post with hashtags:

#C #R

changelog, to Software
@changelog@changelog.social avatar

🕺 It's Changelog & Friends!

THE Cameron Seay joins us once again! 👏

This time we learn more about his life/history, hear all about the boot camps he runs, discuss recent advancements in AI / quantum computing and how they might affect the tech labor market & more!

🎧 https://changelog.com/friends/36

SergKoren, to writing
@SergKoren@writing.exchange avatar

“He lived by the code. He died by the code. He was a COBOL programmer.”

sfwrtr, (edited )
@sfwrtr@eldritch.cafe avatar

@SergKoren

"“He lived by the code. He died by the code. He was a
"

And ironically suddenly highly in demand, despite being undead. Lots of code rot these days.

pierrearlais, to random French
@pierrearlais@mastodon.social avatar

Et oui avec 80 milliards de lignes de code et une croissance de 15% par an, #cobol se porte bien du haut de ses 64 ans !
https://thenewstack.io/20-years-in-the-making-gnucobol-is-ready-for-industry/

jbzfn, to retrocomputing
@jbzfn@mastodon.social avatar

⌛ 20 Years in the Making, GnuCOBOL Is Ready for Industry | thenewstack.io

「 GnuCOBOL turns COBOL source code into executable applications. It is very cross-platform, running Linux, BSD, many proprietary Unixes, macOS, and Windows, even Android. And the latest version, v.32, is being used in many commercial settings 」

https://thenewstack.io/20-years-in-the-making-gnucobol-is-ready-for-industry/

sushee, to random
@sushee@fosstodon.org avatar

ok that made me giggle wildly.. "20 years in the making - gnucobol..." on lol "newstack" dot io 🤭 https://thenewstack.io/20-years-in-the-making-gnucobol-is-ready-for-industry/

scruss, to RaspberryPi
@scruss@xoxo.zone avatar

@ukscone you wrote #COBOL to control GPIO on the #RaspberryPi …?

gnutools, to random
@gnutools@fosstodon.org avatar
pwaring, (edited ) to random
@pwaring@fosstodon.org avatar

'Use AI to rewrite COBOL as Java' sounds like it was designed to test the saying that 'no one got fired for buying IBM'.

(yes, this is really a service IBM is offering - a quick search will find lots of press releases etc)

premartinpatrick, to DigitalNomadHub French
@premartinpatrick@mastouille.fr avatar

Saurez-vous deviner pourquoi cette offre d'emploi que m'a généreusement proposée LinkedIn m'a fait rire ?

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/3830627552/

AmenZwa, to random
@AmenZwa@mathstodon.xyz avatar

and are dead.
Long live Fortran and Cobol.

Modern Fortran is indispensable for high-performance, scientific computing, like weather simulation on supercomputers. Modern Cobol is indispensable for high-throughput, business computing, like financial transaction processing on mainframes.

But Fortran and Cobol suffer from the image problem. Young will not devote their careers to these seemingly dead languages. As such, many Fortran and Cobol shops are desperately trying to "modernise" their codebases by translating into C++, Java, Python, etc.

This is a mistake. A weather forecast that takes a couple of hours for a Fortran implementation that runs on a 1000-CPU supercomputer will take months for a Python version that runs in an enterprise cloud. Analogous examples abound for Cobol. These niche systems are cloud-proof—they will not bend to the charms of cloud computing.

New language features and implementation techniques are continuously, albeit gradually, being integrated into Fortran and Cobol, and new supercomputers and mainframes are still being designed and manufactured. Yet, there is no injection of new programmers into these specialised domains.

A sensible approach, then, is this. Instead of converting pieces of code written in 60yo languages into those written in 30yo languages, design brand new languages—with dependent type system, algebraic types, type inferencing, memory safety, and other accoutrements of modernity—that target standardised Fortran and Cobol, much like TypeScript and ReScript target standardised JavaScript to "modernise" web development. And if these new languages become established, retarget them to binary.

bortzmeyer, to random French
@bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr avatar

Good morning, Brussels! Start of

bortzmeyer,
@bortzmeyer@mastodon.gougere.fr avatar

No code on the screen when talking about Grace Hooper :-)

(Quick survey by the speaker: "who programmed in Cobol in the room?")

nixCraft, to random
@nixCraft@mastodon.social avatar

What was your first software developer job?

RadioAzureus,
@RadioAzureus@mastodon.social avatar

@nixCraft I worked a bit on IBM S34 systems, with those heavy keyboards and 4 character PIN codes.

no

cs, to random
@cs@mastodon.sdf.org avatar

The World Depends on 60-Year-Old Code No One Knows Anymore | PCMag
Article on
https://www.pcmag.com/articles/ibms-plan-to-update-cobol-with-watson

cienmilojos, to IBM

IBMers,

I have a couple of questions as my curiosity and interests have been leaning kinda towards mainframes.

  1. How are mainframes utilized in 2024?
  2. How does the mainframe business work? I am assuming large contracts for hosted services?
  3. Is there enough growth career-wise to merit a segue from another tech related position into mainframe support?
  4. Do I have to learn COBOL?
  5. Are there any other companies providing similar hosted services at scale?
  6. Are there any resources available to learn up on Z/OS and any other services IBM provides? (For free?)
  7. Can we be friends?

Any info is appreciated.
Hats off to all the humans supporting the BIG COMPUTERS.

ethauvin, to haskell
@ethauvin@mastodon.social avatar
setsideb, to random
@setsideb@wrestling.social avatar

Inform 7
Still December, still in low-impact posting mode. I figured I'd tell you all about interactive fiction authoring system Inform 7, which still feels new in my mind despite coming out 17 years ago.

I say "Inform 7" to distinguish it from previous versions, which were a very different system. Inform 6 was a cryptic C-style programming language; Inform 7 s
https://setsideb.com/inform-7/

RetroFunPL, to retrocomputing
@RetroFunPL@8bit.red avatar

I found the following gem from 1972 while doing research for the article:

(Oh, yes, I WROTE A POST that I'm half-proud of! Was BASIC really THAT BAD? Why did Dijkstra say it crippled the mind?
Let's find out the broader context of the famous quote! Please share and comment if you like the post :))

🇺🇸 https://retrofun.pl/2023/12/18/was-basic-that-horrible-or-better/ and Polish version coming up soon)

:-)

gtbarry, to Software
@gtbarry@mastodon.social avatar

The World Depends on 60-Year-Old Code No One Knows Anymore

Every day, 3 trillion dollars worth of transactions are handled by a 64-year-old programming language hardly anybody knows anymore.

It's called COBOL (Common Business Oriented Language), and despite the fact most schools and universities stopped teaching it decades ago, it remains one of the top programming languages used today

https://www.pcmag.com/articles/ibms-plan-to-update-cobol-with-watson

atomicpoet, to random

Write a game engine in COBOL.

kkarhan,
@kkarhan@mstdn.social avatar

@atomicpoet Too easy...

After all, what is considered a "game" is very little and something like should be possible in ...

It'll just be painful af...

LukaszOlejnik, to random
@LukaszOlejnik@mastodon.social avatar

There are 220bn lines of COBOL code in use today (1.5bn new lines/year). COBOL is the foundation of 43% of all banking systems. Such systems handle $3 trillion of daily commerce. COBOL handles 95% of all ATM card-swipes, 80% of all in-person credit card transactions.

Marty,

@LukaszOlejnik @hyc - And a GCC-based Open Source COBOL Compiler is under active development: https://cobolworx.com

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