What's the most interesting traditional or formal politeness behaviour or table manners in your culture? Or for any service personnel, in your restaurant?

I love all the ritualized behaviour, secret meanings and unexpected taboos - standing up when someone of higher status stands, elaborate rules for serving and eating, tapping the table to thank the server, never refuse a toast from a superior, stuff like that.

Whether it's about meals or anything else, I'd love to hear about any uncommon politeness standard or similar social behaviour that goes on in your location, culture or restaurant!

rikudou,

Perhaps not unique to Czechia, but unlike in the US we use the knife and the fork simultaneously. We don’t switch them, we just have the fork in the left hand and the knife in the right hand.

When you put the knife and the fork parallel on your plate, you signal to the waiter that you’re done with your meal, while leaving them crossed means that you intend to continue. So you can leave the toilet and if you have left your utensils crossed, your meal will still be there.

When there’s alcohol involved and people toast, everyone should clink the glass with everyone, while maintaining direct eye contact with the one you’re currently clinking. It’s considered rude if you don’t. Also never clink with other people over someone else’s arms.

Also not unique to Czechia, but unlike in the US, no one takes your card away when you pay, they just bring the terminal to you or ask you to come to the terminal with them. Someone taking your card out of your hand is kinda unimaginable.

livus,
livus avatar

So you can leave the toilet and if you have left your utensils crossed, your meal will still be there.

I really hate it when waitstaff don't know this! It happens to me a lot (New Zealand).

HobbitFoot,

In a busy restaurant in the New York City area, it is considered rude to waste people’s time in not knowing what to order. If you don’t have your order or questions ready about the order when it is your turn, you’re going to piss everyone else off.

tobogganablaze,

How it should be.

SwingingTheLamp,

Here in the upper Midwest, it’s highly impolite to ask guests to leave, or for guests to directly announce that they’re leaving. The accepted way for hosts to hint is to say, “Would ya look at the time?”, or steer the conversation toward things the host has to do later, e.g. clean up, or get up the next morning. For guests, stereotypically you slap your knees and say, “Welp, I suppose…”

Then you don’t just leave, there’s the goodbye, the doorway goodbye, the offer of leftovers to take home, and the driveway goodbye.

bdonvr,

Relevant: youtu.be/mdLPJfbLNOM

SwingingTheLamp,

That’s hilarious! Exaggerated for comedic effect, but not by much.

Appoxo,
@Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

The knee slap sounds suspiciously german.
“Ach schau mal auf die Zeit! Schon 2 Uhr!”

Apytele,

Funny story: guess who populated a bunch of the Midwest?

SecretPancake,

So!

Hjalamanger,
@Hjalamanger@feddit.nu avatar

This is just a small thing and I don’t know if it’s exclusively Swedish (or even done in the entierty of Sweden) but anyways. In the grocery store all customers generally turn all products so that the barcode is facing forward, aka the way that’s the most convenient for the cashier. Partially done to pay respect I guess but also makes the whole thing go faster.

Ghostalmedia,
@Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world avatar

Not common here in the US, but I’ve worked in retail, so I do it. I know how annoying / slow it can be.

Americans often don’t also bag their own to groceries, which also slows the line down. Checkout lines become much shorter if you ready things for scanning and help with bagging.

DigitalDruid,

deleted_by_author

    •
    drunkosaurus,

    This guy shops.

    klemptor,
    @klemptor@startrek.website avatar

    Because I’m neurotic, I always place items on the belt grouped in the order that I plan to bag them: first comes cold items, then pantry items, then hygiene & cleaning products, and lastly produce.

    I routinely beat the checker :)

    jbrains,

    I didn’t do this at ICA, but I certainly learned the habit at Systembolaget.

    Appoxo,
    @Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Our cashiers are pretty fast for having to turn the product.
    But If I have seen it correctly, our cashing systems in Germany can scan the EAN from two sides through a mirror.
    Also you can’t compare to a cashier scanning vs packing anyway so making them even more fast would be hell. Also older folks would be thrice as overwhelmed as usual during regular lunch hours… :|

    isolatedscotch,

    in Vienna they usually have some sort of table near the checkouts so you can just grab everything, put yourself there to free up the space for other people, and slowly organize your stuff into some bag/backpack

    Appoxo,
    @Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    We also have that.
    But the pressure is high so you better be quick while the transaction is going through ;)

    A bit of a memey example: youtube.com/shorts/D5Qip1N1FIc

    isolatedscotch,

    you’d be surprised to know that in many places there’s no such thing and you either stuff everything in as it comes or pack on the ground

    Appoxo,
    @Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

    Or you prepare you groceries on the belt before it goes to the cashier and sort it into your bag as it’s being scanned. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    Valmond,

    Bygg inte varuberg.

    Don’t make mountains with your stuff on the conveyor belt.

    Was written on like all conveyors in sweden.

    Zagorath,
    @Zagorath@aussie.zone avatar

    standing up when someone of higher status stands

    There’s a great story about this. It’s probably apocryphal, but it’s a fun enough story anyway. Like any such myth, there are variations, but this is the one I first heard.

    There’s a tradition in classical music of standing when the Hallelujah chorus of Handel’s Messiah is performed. The story goes that the reason for this tradition is that at its premiere, King George II was so enthralled by it that he rose from his seat. And respect dictated that if the king was standing, so must everyone else be, so the entire audience stood.

    bstix,

    In Denmark pedestrians will politely wait for green light even if there’s nobody around.

    It makes sense if you’re teaching your child to walk safely, but otherwise it’s just a tradition of doing things proper. It’s so ingrained that police could probably stop a criminal on the run simply by following them until they hit a red light.

    Also, never walk on the bicycle lane. That’s taboo.

    DrRatso,

    Etiquette is one of the things that really annoys-to-infuriates me. Especially if someone gets offended over me not following it. I just can’t be bothered thinking about arbitrary rules without any good merit behind them.

    Now I am not talking common sense things where a behaviour might normally be considered offensive, but things like “ a man is supposed to verbally greet a woman first, while a handshake should be initiated by the woman if she wishes”.

    Ive actually had this exact exchange with a superior (by standing, I wasnt actually working with/under them at the time):

    Me: quietly walking past a superior about 2h after I have areived at work

    Them, visibly and audibly annoyed: So I guess you dont greet people?

    I just said good morning and said I don’t really keep track of who I have already met that day. But like come on, where is the disrespect if not projected from your own head?

    I also hate the custom of wishing someone a good meal / good appetite. Like if it is 1x when everyone sits down, whatever, ill begrudgingly follow, but I cant be bothered to do it at work every 2 mins when someone new walks into the kitchen.

    EssentialNPC, (edited )

    For those who are truly into etiquette, we understand that it is a gift we give to others and hope they will choose to return in kind. It is actually extremely poor etiquette to point out the missteps of others. The superior you unfortunately had to deal with was an asshole. Being an asshole is pretty much never appropriate.

    I stand to greet others because it shows them respect and maybe because I am a little old fashioned. I take off my hat in private spaces for the same reason. I also know enough etiquette to know that modern hat customs have been modified because they are more of a fashion piece now than a protective garment. Hats have different rules when their primary purpose is to be an accessory.

    Do you know what I do when someone gets etiquette “wrong?” Nothing! It is rude to police others. The most someone should do is to gently steer others away from a faux pas if it would likely cause them embarrassment or future difficulty.

    I think what I really want to write is that I am sorry etiquette has been used as a social bludgeon against you. Good etiquette should feel seamless and unobtrusive. Formality can be lovely, and instead it has been a bad experience for you. That sucks.

    Edit to add: I am really talking about classic English/American etiquette. I am in no place to comment on things like the etiquette in many Asian nations. I know some of the customs, but little of the nuance that goes into them.

    Hegar,

    For those who are truly into etiquette, we understand that it is a gift we give to others and hope they will choose to return in kind.

    What well-wrought words!

    I feel like there's a picture of etiquette where it's always stuffy and exists only to reinforce unjust hierarchies. Etiquette as a gift given freely with hope but no expectation of return is a great alternate model.

    Hegar,

    One of the many things I loved about Taiwan was that people leave the left side of the escalator free for those who want to walk up or down.

    There's one single file line of people standing on the escalator. Even during the evening commute, there's a single file line snaking back down into the station. But then as you get close there's a much smaller line to the left moving much quicker of every who plans to walk up.

    It's so civilized.

    dnick,

    Sub-protocol here…you can walk on the right but don’t stand on the left. Kind of like the fast and slow lanes on the road.

    bstix,

    That’s pretty common for anywhere with subways. Unfortunately there’s no international standard on which side is the correct one to stand on.

    It’s mostly “stand on right”, but not everywhere, not even within the same country. (UK and Japan uses both).

    As a tourist, please look for the signs.

    Stand on right, walk on left : London, Berlin, New York, Copenhagen, Osaka

    Stand on left, walk on right : Tokyo, Sydney, Edinburgh

    bdonvr,

    Big in Washington, DC too. Stand right.

    yokonzo,

    Chicago subway system would like to have a word with you

    PatMustard,

    Pretty standard in the London Underground too, despite technically being way more inefficient than if everyone just stood two people on each step!

    PeterLossGeorgeWall,

    It’s not more efficient in how people want to get there. The people who stand and ride the escalator have no rush to get there quicker so they get there on time. The people who want/need to go faster get there as fast as possible. In your scenario everyone MUST be slow, no? What am I missing here?

    PatMustard,

    True, that was the “technically” part. If it’s rush hour and everyone is standing on all the steps on the right and everyone is walking as fast as they can on the left then the overall rate of people is less than if everyone was standing more densely. At quieter times then the people who need to rush can get there faster because they don’t need to stop at the beginning while they wait to get on.

    livus,
    livus avatar

    We don't have tipping culture but praising the meal to the waiter is considered polite at the end of the meal.

    This only applies to the elderly generation but they tend to put "quite" at the start of any praise.

    So, saying food is "quite good" is actually higher praise than "good". But to people not from here it sounds like the opposite.

    Carighan,
    @Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

    Over here, tips are usually only given to:

    • Round up (lots of cash payments still) and avoid small change.
    • Genuinely give a tip for an above-the-usual service. Which also means that in reverse, the default is no tips. Granted, people aren’t being paid a slave wage here.
    livus,
    livus avatar

    The rounding up would make sense.

    I don't think I have paid cash in a restaurant here in this century. In this part of the world the debit card system took hold quite early.

    PatMustard,

    They say English isn’t a tonal language but the way you pronounce the word “quite” can change it from being ‘unexpectedly good’ to ‘barely passable’

    jlow,

    “How’s it goin?” “Not too bad!”

    PatMustard,

    “Not too bad…”

    Waker, (edited )

    I feel like this is a global thing but here it goes When serving dinner the women are served first, then the men. They do this from oldest to youngest.

    So, first person to get food/wine/water/wtv served is the oldest woman, and the last person to be served is the youngest man…

    Edit: I got the tittle wrong I thought it was only formal setting stuff. This is only done in very formal settings. Like an extremely important ceremony on the military branches of my country for instance.

    Valmond,

    With invited people first where I live.

    INHALE_VEGETABLES,

    Global

    Prioritising women

    That’s a hard no from me dawg

    blackn1ght,

    We don’t do that here (UK), there’s no order in which people are served their food. It doesn’t really matter, as it’s “polite” here to only start once everyone has got their food.

    livus,
    livus avatar

    I think it might depend on the level of formality; pretty sure in very formal British ettiquette it goes clockwise from the person to the right of the host.

    I don't really understand how they would be able to know the age of everyone like @Waker describes though.

    Waker,

    No one is going to behead you if you get the ages wrong for some reason.

    But as you said, it’s only done in very very formal situations. Usually army/navy/airforce dinners and such. You almost never see it anywhere else.

    livus,
    livus avatar

    Interesting! What part of the world do you live in, if you don't mind me asking?

    Waker,

    Portugal

    livus,
    livus avatar

    Thanks, this is good to know!

    KeepFlying,

    Don’t salt your food before tasting it, it’s insulting to the chef/cook since it looks like you don’t trust their cooking.

    There’s a popular story of someone being taken to a restaurant for an interview with their potential boss and the candidate being rejected because they salted their food before tasting it. The interviewer took it to mean the candidate wasn’t trusting, was opinionated, and didn’t respect the food or the chef and they didn’t get the job.

    AngryCommieKender,

    That is an Admiral Rickover story from the USN. He was the first guy in charge of the Navy Nuclear Power Program, and they still tell many stories about the guy.

    Admiral Rickover was the interviewer.

    currawong,
    @currawong@lemmy.ml avatar

    But you can tell when a dish isn’t salted just by the smell. I do that often.

    KeepFlying,

    Is it supposed to be salted? Is there already enough salt for how that dish is supposed to be? How dare you assume you know better than the chef!!

    PatMustard,

    Imagine losing a job because an armchair psychologist took you to the fanciest restaurant you’ve ever been to and you like salty food. Ah well, free meal!

    KeepFlying,

    What can you expect? You presupposed the food wasn’t salty enough, do you’d CLEARLY be a terrible employee. Isnt it obvious!

    PatMustard,

    Well @AngryCommieKender said the interviewer was a navy boss, I guess people at sea have very strong opinions about saltiness!

    AngryCommieKender,

    The direct quote from Rickover was, “I refuse to work with someone who makes such gross assumptions.”

    Bear in mind they were in a 5 star restaurant. The Admiral had an expense account.

    KeepFlying,

    Honestly though, in a five star restaurant you don’t modify your food**. Trust the chef to make something good.

    **Except for allergies or ARFID or something

    Hegar,

    **Except for allergies or ARFID or something

    You take the automatic RFID chip out of your food? How else will the app know when you've finished digesting?

    KeepFlying,

    I can’t let Bill Gates learn EVERYTHING about me

    jeffw,

    “No elbows on the table” is one older one. I never really got it anyway

    theodewere,
    theodewere avatar

    it's a dining table, not a slouching table

    HobbitFoot,

    It is a combination that tables were too small to have room to put your elbows on and that some tables weren’t nailed down to their legs, making it easy for them to turn over.

    CyanFen,

    It’s actually because sailors were often looked down upon in high society and they used their elbows to keep their plate from sliding around on the table as the ship rocked back and forth

    Archer,

    My Mom grew up near Kitsap naval base and calling someone a sailor was pretty much a slur, even if they were a sailor. I don’t think that’s gone away lol

    SorteKanin,
    @SorteKanin@feddit.dk avatar

    Not my culture but if you want to see this kinda stuff, try going to Japan. I exited a restaurant there and the waitress very excitedly went arigatogozaimasu (thank you very much) and made a full 90 degree bow. The service culture or like… I dunno how to describe it, like there’s a certain honor in upholding your job/duty there that is just very different from Denmark (which tbf is very much a polar opposite to Japan when it comes to work culture).

    Nemo,

    One thing that I think is very foreign to some people, that Americans take for granted, is that a table server is always watching you when you dine. If the patron looks unhappy, or us even just sitting up and looking around, a good server will be there as soon as they can to see if something is needed. Hand-in-hand with that, signalling a server, especially with a loud noise, is extremely rude, basically an accusation that they’re not doing their job. Which, okay, sometimes we aren’t and it’s appropriate. But to wave or stand is an indictment, and to snap or whistle is way over the line.

    Correspondingly, a good waitress doesn’t interrupt a meal or conversation, but merely glides by or hovers until the party is ready for his attention.

    Drusas,

    A wave of the hand is absolutely not rude or an indictment, especially these days when nearly every restaurant is understaffed. It's the polite way to get the server's attention.

    los_chill,

    Depends on the restaurant. While not rude, a wave is often unnecessary in finer dining. Busy sports bar, sure. But most good servers will be scanning fairly constantly. Simple eye-contact is usually enough.

    Drusas,

    I would consider it an indictment in a fine dining establishment, yes. Anywhere else, no. Of course, you shouldn't literally be waving your arms around. Just a slight lift of the hand while looking at them.

    los_chill,

    Spot on. I used to work in a fancy spot. People waving their arms around would sometimes just get a super friendly wave back from me.

    Drusas,

    Nicely handled!

    Jimmycrackcrack,

    Oh man I’d hate that. I don’t want to feel watched while I eat and I don’t like to pretend the staff aren’t there and not even address their help with at least a thank you. Whereabouts is this custom?

    i_stole_ur_taco,

    “I’M GOING TO PAY! YOU CAN STOP WATCHING ME FFS!”

    Jimmycrackcrack,

    To be fair, your name is “I stole your taco”.

    Asclepiaz,

    The best servers don’t hover in obvious ways. I swear more times than I can count I’ve finished a drink, said something to my dining partner or taken a bite of food, and looked down to find a new Shirley temple. Those servers are magic and earn their tips. (disclaimer I hate tipping culture but this is the world we exist in and some nice lady bringing me Shirley temples shouldn’t suffer for me not liking it)

    rikudou,

    That sounds so weird to me. I’ll take our indifferent waiters over this creepiness every day. Though it probably really depends on what you’re used to.

    bitcrafter,

    Yeah, I miss living in Australia where you didn’t have your own waiter but on the other hand that meant that it wasn’t rude to flag down any of the wait staff if you need anything rather than being restricted to having to go through a single person.

    dnick,

    I think this is a little over-simplified. If there are only a few tables it likely happens, but with current staffing, even before covid, if a servers section is full there’s no way they can watch for tiny signals from every table. Heck it’s hard to even catch your servers attention in most restaurants during busy times between when they are taking orders and actually serving other tables.

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