how can something be so courageous and yet so true

Edit: Jesus Christ, people. If you buy a $150 Thinkpad made by slave labor instead of a $1,200 MacBook made by slave labor, you’re still supporting a capitalist economy based on slave labor. We all do. We have no choice. The number of smug liberals in the comments saying “well I buy a cheap used laptop” or “well I buy coffee beans and make my own coffee” are completely missing the fucking point.

Don’t tell yourself your consumption is moral. All of us make unethical choices every day because there is no ethical consumption under capitalism. Accept your shame and guilt and let it drive you to do better.

iAvicenna,

Nope sorry, there are many much less capitalistically aggressive alternatives to starbucks and apple. Slaves on the other hand literally (and not figuratively as in here) needed to keep slaving to stay alive. I would seriously feel cramps in my stomach if I walked into a starbucks with that sticker.

brbposting,

How’s Lenovo’s sustainability versus Apple’s?

iAvicenna,

if it has linux installed, then much better at least from a software standpoint

FiniteBanjo,

Apple is a dumb choice always, but theres no fucking replacement for starbucks and you cannot convince me otherwise.

sxan,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

I… do you really think Starbucks sells good… anything? I mean, serious question. Do you think their drinks taste good?

FiniteBanjo,

https://lemmy.today/pictrs/image/9d8a9229-9c1a-4918-bb6a-b1c02eb4439a.png

sxan,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

Sorry you’re being down voted for having an opinion :-( – even if it’s a horrible one.

luves2spooge,

Please tell me how I can build ios apps, test multiple browsers (including safari), and test on any iPhone without mac? I don’t want to use a mac but it’s not “always a dumb choice”. Sometimes (by design) there is no choice.

FiniteBanjo,

Here is an idea for you, don’t build iOS Apps. If iOS users want to use regular apps or browsers then they’ll have to jailbreak their devices or stop using devices that intentionally limit them. Enabling their poor decisions doesn’t help them.

As a bonus it removes your apple developer fees as well as cuts your development costs by maybe half or even more.

luves2spooge,

You’re deluded

TopRamenBinLaden,

The vast majority of devs doing it for a career don’t get to choose what kind of apps they build.

FiniteBanjo,

I assure you everybody has a choice with every action they take, but purely for the sake of argument if you didn’t choose then your superiors did and in that case I’m criticizing your superiors stupid decisions, savvy?

RogueBanana,

It is so damn stupid if you’re developing a product and limiting yourself to a specific group because of some stupid moral that not everyone shares. Makes 0 sense in business context but sure go for it.

FiniteBanjo,

Lmao, the only limiting factor in this equation is Apple.

Goodtoknow,
@Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca avatar

Locally owned cafes???

FiniteBanjo,

oh wow what a novel concept, never have I heard of such a thing like eight times in this thread, thank you for sharing your incredibly useful opinion.

ma11en,

Starbucks along with McDonald’s has the most throat ripping base coffee of any chain in the UK.

If I have use a chain I’ll go to Costa but I’d rather use a local trader.

FiniteBanjo,

Yeah the coffee and most of the food items at Mickey D’s is garbo, but I’d fight a dude for a more ethical means of obtaining a big mac in less than 10 minutes.

Deceptichum,
@Deceptichum@sh.itjust.works avatar

McCafe coffee is actually pretty decent in Aus, if i had to get something fast food it’d be maccas anytime, but we have so many thousands of cafes that i never have to go more tgan a street or two for a good one.

hydrospanner,

Here I am being more judgey about Starbucks.

I’m no Apple fan but I’m no hater either. They’re overpriced but most people who have them are buying them for the style/aesthetic/image…and while that may indeed be shallow, if that’s what they want and the apple stuff delivers it for them and makes them happy, I suppose it’s money well spent (to them).

The coffee on the other hand, if they’re in any city or suburb of any decent size, there’s probably a small local option that’s at the very least as good as Starbucks coffee and likely significantly better.

FiniteBanjo,

Alright but if you’re driving 6 hours across the USA you can get consistently good starbucks in every other town you pass by, but yes I’m sure there might better tasting gourmet options for similar price range in the most populous cities in the nation.

Apple is still a detriment to the end users, though, so I don’t care if it gives them momentary happiness.

Facebones,

Exactly, one of the main complaints about macs (being so proprietary and locked down is one of the main selling points. They’re the king of “just works” because they don’t allow a damn thing that might make it not.

I like to tinker so obv that’s garbo, but if you want to get your grandma something and not have to come around once a month to “fix,” Mac might be the answer. 🤷

borari,
@borari@sh.itjust.works avatar

Macs are not really locked down fyi. I can sudo to root and do literally anything I can do on Linux. iPhones sure, but not Macbooks.

exocrinous,

In my experience locked down hardware just works until it doesn’t just work, and at that point it’s much harder to get working. When my auntie wants to know how to make sure she doesn’t delete her iphone contacts by accident, I need to have the device in my hands and figure out the answer. If she had an android like a normal person, then I could just tell her because I know the answer off the top of my head.

I tried to play Warframe with a friend whose only gaming device is a Switch last year, and it was a massive pain. We eventually got it working, but my friend came close to giving up many times. If she’d had a PC, it would have just worked.

stabby_cicada,

I would think the exact opposite. Apple’s monopoly practices (you notice they just got mega sued by the USG for antitrust violations, right?) mean if you want to effectively collaborate with people inside the Apple ecosystem you need to use Apple products.

On the other hand, Starbucks is easily replaceable, unless you’re in some sort of food desert urban wasteland, there are local coffee shops everywhere.

absentbird,

Where even is the Starbucks in the photo?

brbposting,

I thought under her butt but maybe not. Is that their seating?

iAvicenna,

this is a very good point, I am now more angry with myself for not looking carefully and jumping to a conclusion and swallowed the story like a pill

FiniteBanjo,

Fuck people in the apple ecosystem. Coffee in diners don’t replace the dessert frappuccinos.

Agrivar,

Wow. So, you’re just openly admitting to being a selfish prick and that you have shit taste?

So brave.

FiniteBanjo,

Lol whats selfish about not wanting to support the Mac ecosystem? It has lots of effort for minimal return, it’s completely uneconomic for every use case. Plus, it adds incentive to keep using Apple products, which is harmful to its users.

accideath,

I don’t care about the ecosystem but I care about having macOS. And I care about not having overpriced coffee abominations from starbucks, when I can make better coffee at home for less money.

wizardbeard,
@wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

No one’s talking about diners. We’re talking actual coffee shop or cafe.

Of course any place that just has a coffee machine alongside everything else they do is going to be shit compared to a place that specializes in coffee.

And any sugar bomb dessert drink is going to be “better” than a bog standard cuppa joe.

That’s like going to a sushi restaurant, getting the chicken tenders they have on the menu just so parents can placate picky children, and complaining that it doesn’t stack up to a wings that specializes in wings.

It’s apples and oranges man.

Look, my wife’s from a small town where the main employer pulled out almost 50 years ago. Then they spent a shit ton of tax money on trying to build some stuff to become a cargo transport hub, which failed as no companies bought in. 90% of their downtown is empty storefronts and boarded up windows.

They have two entirely local coffee shops that I can personally vouch to do equal to Starbucks. Personally I think the one blows the pants off Starbucks, but I’m willing to concede in the court of opinion. There’s at least two other coffee places within 10 minutes, two breakfast places, and two sandwich shops that have dessert coffee that stacks up as well, so I’m told.

You could buy the small mansion that sits on the hill overlooking a forested residential area there for the cost of a small townhouse anywhere else. Lovely town, lovely people in it. Impovershed as all hell. There’s still great options besides “Yeah I think Earl put a new pot on sometime today, let me check”.

Out on the highway, exits, and rest stops thereabouts, there’s even franchise alternatives to Starbucks. Dunkin Doughnuts are goddamn everywhere. Tim Hortons, at least up in the northern US. East coast from roughly New York down to Virginia (don’t quote me on the specific bounds) there’s Wawa gas stations, where if they have the sandwich counter they have dessert drinks. Pretty sure there’s other gas station chains that are stepping up too, I just don’t travel like I used to, especially since the pandemic. Dunkincs my go to “I don’t know the area and don’t have time” choice. Much more limited menu options, but I feel it holds up.

Look, you’re more than allowed to have your own fucking tastes and preferences, or maybe you’re literally addicted to Starbuck’s infamously pumped up caffeine levels. Just please don’t pretend like Starbucks is the only option for a good dessert coffee drink.

Oh no, you support a notably horrible corporation and like their products! Welcome to the party. The overwhelming amount of people, even the most socially and human rights concious, are far from perfect in that regard. Everyone has to make their own choices about the battles they fight and where they expend their effort.

SpaceNoodle,

Tim Horton’s coffee is total garbage though

devfuuu,

I wish there was a replacement for starbucks.

FiniteBanjo,

I wish it were possible for an ethical restaurant chain in general at the scale of what we have in the USA, I bet the good timeline has those.

areyouevenreal,

Yep used thinkpad and some kind of Linux sounds more like it.

metaldream, (edited )

Buying a used Thinkpad doesn’t change the fact that it was made by slave labor. It might make you feel better to buy one, but it changes absolutely nothing. You still bought an item made in part by slaves or near-slaves. And you’re keeping the market alive for that to continue.

Hubi,

If you buy used, the manufacturer makes zero profit. It’s a pretty substantial difference ethically.

CancerMancer,

You are of course giving money to someone who likely has already purchased another laptop, indirectly supporting their consumerism, but I mean it’s still one less new laptop and one less landfill item, it’s definitely among the lesser evils.

areyouevenreal,

Buying used means you aren’t actually contributing to slave labor at all. Buying new would.

Also where are you getting this laptops are made with slave labor idea? We aren’t talking clothing here.

funkless_eck,

apple and Starbucks are capitalists. Using their products and services is not “capitalism” but “consumerism”

spending a wage you earned is the opposite of capitalism

metaldream,

Buying anything in a capitalist country makes you a consumer.

funkless_eck,

And no one has the choice not to be.

iAvicenna,

I mean not exactly. I am not sayin the person in the photo is but excessive consumerism is what capitalism needs to stand on.

funkless_eck,

well of course not “exactly.” To get to “exactly” we would both have to write hundreds of thousands of words.

My point is that a lot of people who are proponents of capitalism aren’t actually leveraging their capital as an investment to further expand it.

For example, I just bought a house. I “leveraged” 5% of the property price from my savings (earned by a wage, by the way, not by leveraging other capital) and the bank carried the rest (which it does by leveraging capital). It’s the banks’ house for the next 30 years. I can leverage my equity in the house as that equity grows (which would be a bad idea), but even when the house is paid off, I now have an asset, not capital. Were I to sell the house - now I have capital - but I can’t do anything with, really, practically, except buy another house, again from which lawyers, banks, realtors, etc will all extract capital but I will not.

The second point is that - you need a phone and laptop to survive in modern society, just like you needed a horse in days gone. People love to gloat that people who say “those who do no work but own methods of extracting wealth from those who do should profit less” are then buying something unavoidable from those who extract capital, and point out that they should have budgeted for a slightly lower price point in order to give the wealth extractors slightly less.

And honestly, they are welcome to that opinion. It doesn’t change my opinions at all. We just disagree. They believe people (often other than themselves) are entitled to more of a share in the profit they generated than I believe they should be, either for myself or for anyone.

Anyone is welcome to disagree I just don’t understand why they want to give up their own money. Especially as such people are usually desperately against taxation, which is the same mechanism except it benefits many instead of the few.

Mojave,

deleted_by_author

    •
    SpaceNoodle,

    Who’s my local laptop manufacturer?

    Daxtron2,

    You just gotta go down to the local laptop breeder and pick out a baby

    Mojave,

    deleted_by_author

    •
    metaldream,

    Let’s say you do this. Now you just need to buy a slave labor-free phone, car, TV and hundreds of other items. Not to mention you’re paying taxes to a capitalist government.

    Anyone who thinks you can escape the consequences of capitalism while existing in a capitalist country is just full of it. It’s like the leftist version of sovereign citizen nonsense

    RogueBanana,

    I definitely wouldn’t mind buying an overpriced product just for the sake of supporting it, but it’s gonna be another decade before they ship to my country so it’s not a real choice for most, especially the price.

    absentbird,

    Framework laptops are like $1700

    Aradina,

    What Framework are doing is good, but pretending they’re more than a rich person thing right now is silly. AU$2,800 is not a reasonable price and is well out of the range of most people for a laptop.

    Goodtoknow,
    @Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca avatar

    Find a local shop that refurbishes used machines and provides good warranty

    lemmylem, (edited )

    Sure, but it’s the fact that out of any other choice to pick, she chose to still give her money to the most aggressively capitalist companies. You can say it’s consumerism, but what point is she even making then? She sat down at a Starbucks to get her overpriced coffee, on a $1200 Macbook with a sticker on it that says “SMASH CAPITALISM”, it’s blatantly hyprocritcal.

    funkless_eck,

    maybe she’s there with a gift card she got given and a laptop that was also a gift?

    Also my work computer is a Mac, now, and was also when I worked for a print and design company years ago.

    maybe she’s an artist and Macs are often considered de rigueur for image and movie editing

    maybe she’s not very technical, grew up using a Mac and is sticking to what she knows, who are we to criticise someone for not being skilled at tech, when we are not skilled at javelin throwing, or glass blowing or pointilism or whatever.

    lemmylem, (edited )

    There are alternatives out there. That’s all. If you want to say ‘SMASH CAPITALISM’, then don’t pick the most garbage possible way to make your point. At the end of the day, your still buying/using them, especially from the most aggressively capitalist companies such as Apple and Starbucks. You could always sell off the laptop and gift card and support your local businesses instead. There are still local computer shops out there that sell off used hardware.

    Also, I mean, you don’t even need to be an expert to use Linux, it’s rather simple actually, especially with AI at our fingertips. It’s just the fact that they keep supporting the exact thing they despise, hence why it looks hypocritical. Do your part and stick to what you preach. It’s like a person that eats at a all-meat resturaunt with a t-shirt on that says “Vegan”.

    funkless_eck,

    used hardware

    how do we know it’s not used? I’m just saying we’re putting a lot into this image. Not done a massive deep dive but off the top of my head Apple isn’t really that much worse than Samsung, Sony, NVIDIA, ASUS… Maybe there’s a few percentage points in it - but by any metric: revenue, employee corps, emissions, corruption, e-waste, personal politics or private lives of key figures… are they vastly different?

    You dont have to be an expert to use Linux

    Ehhhhh. I think you’re vastly over estimating how good people are at tech. Even young people. I reflect on trying to teach my grandmother how to text. Probably around 2004? She could use a VHS and DVD player, land line phone with caller ID, a microwave, set the time on the oven - but pressing keys on a phone to spell was beyond her and she got really frustrated. I also reflect on how someone I know in their early 30s was really annoyed by some old printer software they had from a printer they don’t own any more, and I said “why don’t you just uninstall it” and they didn’t know how.

    The average user on lemmy can probably write a Hello world in some language, or at least create <html><head><title>Hello world</title></head><body>Hello world</body></html> … but I don’t know if the average person on the street can.

    The average person on the street probably can’t install windows from scratch let alone dual boot Linux, let alone from a Mac OS.

    I dont mean that to be snooty, I mean it to highlight you are taking a massive leap of faith in how good at computers most people are.

    lemmylem,

    Sure you’re right. But, I’m still going to take my chances and say that she probably spent her own money lol

    metaldream,

    All your options are “capitalistically aggressive”. It’s a sign of immaturity to me that people think they’re above it all while still being totally and utterly dependent on capitalist economics. Acting like buying a fair phone makes you better than others is just laughable. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to all your other unavoidable contributions to capitalists.

    Not to mention that many of these “better” options are only available to people with money, which makes the entire claim even more ironic. Many of us going this “alternate” less aggressive route can only do so because we benefit from inequality in the first place.

    Your argument in no way refutes the point the comic makes.

    iAvicenna, (edited )

    nope, there is for instance a ton of difference between someone who buys a used phone and uses it for 5 years vs someone who buys a new phone each time a new model comes out. Similarly there is a difference to how much you enable or enhance this system when you make conscious choices about which brands to use (ones that are a part of it or ones that actively redefine and make things worse).

    I would agree however that it really makes no sense to of course try to infer all of these from a single photo, maybe this person is super anti consumerism in all other aspects, maybe she is repairing someone else’s computer etc. Nevertheless apple is the last brand you should be using if you want to put a smash capitalism sticker on your laptop, you can at least show the will to have your os open source. Otherwise it is like going to a steak house to eat steak with a “stop animal slaughter” shirt. It is the exact definition for me of acting like you are above it all without showing the effort to be.

    Thcdenton,

    Im not judging her because of any hypocrisy. Im judging her because she’s a mac user.

    lseif,

    maybe its got linux ?

    TonyTonyChopper,
    @TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

    Then they would be a femboy with striped socks, and drinking a home made coffee in their basement

    lseif,

    most effective with arch

    Kolanaki,
    @Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

    And still wouldn’t be using a MacBook as the hardware unless it was an older one they fished out of a dumpster.

    SpaceNoodle,

    So I just need the socks, then?

    toaster,

    Lemmy moment. And I’m all for it.

    daltotron,

    low key, this comment has done more to make me want to try linux than like 95% of the comments here advocating in favor of it. GJ.

    CancerMancer,

    If you ever decide to open that door, install Ventoy on a USB stick and then copy a few different Linux distributions’ ISOs onto said stick. You can try them all out easily and without risk that way, it’s pretty cool.

    daltotron,

    I’ll probably take this advice but I was probably also just gonna go with linux mint

    Klear,

    We are the same.

    fishos,
    @fishos@lemmy.world avatar

    In response to your edit, there’s a difference between being forced to buy products that employ slave labor and choosing to buy something that is extremely overpriced because of capitalism. Yes you need to live within the system, but that doesn’t mean you buy the most expensive and wasteful version and then claim “well I had no choice!”. You have choices. You’re just being willfully ignorant of them and shifting the blame to someone else. Heaven forbid you become part of the solution and not just another addition to the problem.

    CancerMancer,

    Seeing so many responses like this to the edit makes me happy. This is the intellectually consistent position imo: if you’re going to take the position that “this is the world we live in” (which is valid) then you must also accept that there are degrees of consumption and actively choosing one of the worst ones without a strong rationale is less moral.

    Pyr_Pressure,

    It’s a little telling though that they left the apple logo as the only untouched portion of the lid lol.

    If you really hated capitalism but were forced to participate, at least the first sticker you put on the laptop would cover the company name/logo.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    Imagine owning a laptop that you can’t replace ram or the ssd of.

    Kage520,

    What’s nice about apple is that they use high enough quality components that it lasts awhile. I’m the kind of guy to drive a Honda until it’s just about dead before buying another. I bought my MacBook pro in I think 2011 (maybe 2013, I can’t remember). It still runs fine. The battery is not worth much, maybe 30 minutes. But I have no real reason to replace it. Everything is fine. Compared to when I had cheap laptops before, I think I went through 3 in a span of 6 years.

    I’m guessing the key here is getting a laptop with high quality components that isn’t apple, but I don’t know which ones are actually good, and which are just artificially expensive laptops. Reviews don’t help too much either because so many are fake, and also that I don’t think many people keep their laptops 10+ years to compare longevity. I will probably go buy another apple when mine finally dies.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    The nerds seem to love ThinkPads

    Cqrd,

    Imagine owning a laptop that’s too bulky to be comfortable anywhere but a desk

    maynarkh,

    One of the places I worked had a nice little Thinkpad that was light AF and even had a touchscreen. You could still replace the SSD and RAM without tools. It also was durable as hell.

    There is no reason for parts in an Apple computer to be soldered other than planned obsolescence and making it impossible to repair.

    Linkerbaan,
    @Linkerbaan@lemmy.world avatar

    The SSD no, but soldering RAM and sharing it between GPU and CPU can actually speed up performance.

    Modularity comes at a cost. There’s a reason the modular smartphone never worked.

    Cqrd,

    I bet it also cost significantly more than a MacBook Air too, but my comment wasn’t even in defense of Apple. It was a general statement until this point.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    And I would wager that the vast majority of people have no idea how to upgrade RAM or change an SSD, and many would be afraid to even attempt it, so weight is of much bigger importance to them.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    Computer repair stores exist, but I suspect Apple users wouldn’t know this, as all Apple has are sales people telling you to buy a new one or spend the price of a new one to get whatever fixed or upgraded (which isn’t actually an option).

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Why would someone pay to repair a computer they don’t think is broken? Just because you understand what more ram and a bigger drive mean doesn’t mean the average person does.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    And who’s fault is that? Companies who make things that can’t be upgraded or repaired, so people don’t know it’s an option.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Do people not know or is having something lightweight more important to them?

    Why do you care so much what other people choose to spend their money on?

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    I don’t care, but those attitudes and habits, and the bullshit you’re defending has a real effect on something I do care about. The environment. But you do you.

    globalewaste.org

    reuters.com/…/world-losing-battle-against-electro…

    FlyingSquid, (edited )
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    And replacing old RAM and old drives wouldn’t also create a lot of waste?

    Exactly what percentage of the waste generated today is Macbooks?

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    It would reduce the amount of waste greatly, so would repairable products. And I guess enough of it is Apple for them to be a trillion dollar business.

    You ride that apple d hard, damn.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I’m sure you think insulting me will make me a huge fan of Apple rather than someone who understands why people buy them, but I’m afraid it won’t work. Sorry. You can’t wish someone into who you want them to be.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    That… Made no sense. But shirking personal responsibility to be conscious of the effects of your product choices due to convenience seems to be pretty common.

    Like I said, you do you.

    I make more educated choices where I can because I actually care about the damage these things do and I’d prefer not to live in a rubbish dump.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    No, what makes no sense is you insulting me for being some big champion of Apple when I’m not.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    You keep defending them, the modern pioneer of planned obsolescence, the company that deliberately works to make their products unrepairable. I’m amazed they didn’t invent the disposable vape.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Nope, I keep explaining why people are buying their products. It’s not my fault you are taking my explanation of what other people do personally enough to make up lies about me and use them as insults.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    👍🏼 I’m going to go enjoy my Sunday now.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    Ultralight laptops exist outside of Apple, you know that right?

    Cqrd,

    And you also can’t usually replace their ram or SSD. Wild how I didn’t even mention Apple in my comment but apparently that’s the only laptop you think is light that you can’t replace the ram and SSD in.

    KyuubiNoKitsune,

    Then find one that does. “most of them” isn’t an excuse.

    CancerMancer,

    too bulky

    It’s often hard to judge the level of privilege someone has but today you’ve made it real easy.

    Cqrd,

    Go fuck yourself with that shit. There’s plenty of laptops that aren’t bulky and aren’t Apple products, but not that many that aren’t bulky, aren’t Apple products, have self-replaceable parts, and are affordable.

    Stern,
    @Stern@lemmy.world avatar

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/14bdb6aa-e53b-48e9-9d4b-774dbcc43016.png

    Default_Defect,
    @Default_Defect@midwest.social avatar

    I’ve only ever seen the last panel of this, delightful.

    fine_sandy_bottom,

    This is really daft.

    It’s possible to participate in society in such a way as to uphold our beliefs about how society ought to be.

    If you want to complain about Apple’s abuse of employees, don’t buy their stuff.

    If you want to abolish slavery, don’t own any slaves.

    If you want to smash capitalism, buy a used thinkpad.

    Sure, there are some instances where this just isn’t possible in a complete and absolute sense. For example, I despise google, have invested a lot of effort in degoogling, but there remain some google components I rely on.

    However, the existence of these instances does not mean we don’t need to invest any effort in supporting the changes we want to see.

    CancerMancer,

    I agree, that comic is bullshit. Acknowledging that the world we live in isn’t the one we want but that we can make a garbage system less garbage is absolutely valid. There are initiatives like Right to Repair that bring us closer to our goals while also actively making the existing system suck less, so why not take the money you would have spent on Apple products and put it towards the cause instead?

    Feathercrown,

    https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/5ab66218-8078-4fa8-80d3-41696a2ee8d1.jpeg

    jeremyparker,

    I also get annoyed when people criticize when wealthy people support leftist causes. Like, yeah, Bernie Sanders (or whoever) has a lot of money, so the fact that he isn’t blinded to injustice by his own privilege is a good thing.

    HawlSera,

    I forget who said it, but…

    “When I was poor and talked about greed and poverty, they said I was jealous, now that I’m rich and talk about greed and poverty, they call me a hypocrite… I’m starting to think they just don’t want to talk about it.”

    cro_magnon_gilf,

    Russel Brand

    Excrubulent,
    @Excrubulent@slrpnk.net avatar

    Unfortunately he has gone full conspiracy grifter at this point, but he does have a way with words and he has used it to say some good things in the past.

    Cannacheques,

    Nobody wants to admit it, but the reality is it’s natural to everyone, we all want both external freedom, the power to change the world with money, and internal freedom, to feel that ones conscience is in harmony with the universe

    Blue_Morpho,

    The difference is Bernie doesn’t wear a large diamond encrusted gold necklace spelling out “Socialism” in large letters.

    A Macbook and Starbucks are fashion statements.

    CancerMancer,

    Just needs the Che shirt for that chef’s kiss

    SuddenDownpour,

    If everyone is going to be paid fairly for their labor, plenty of electronics are going to dramatically rise in price, as they rely in materials that are often obtained through people working in miserable conditions, sometimes reaching extremes such as child slavery.

    I for one am willing to pay more if that means we fight against the abuse generated by this system.

    CancerMancer,

    On the other hand producing a smaller variety of modular devices means you need less people overall supporting the same level of industry. Making designs open source and parts available means devices can be made to last longer than they previously did, requiring less manufacturing in the long-term. While I’m not sure where the equilibrium between this and other factors comes down, it ultimately leads to better working conditions and better devices so I’ll take it.

    KillingTimeItself,

    that would be me with my $150 kitted out ebay special thinkpad (ignore that i own four of them, they’re spare parts and i can gift them to people. They’re good laptops) somewhere, in a place, i don’t like business establishments.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Got a refurbished $200 Thinkpad T460 on eBay. It’s in really good condition. I installed Mint on it and it works great.

    KillingTimeItself,

    i did a display swap on my w520 last night, it’s running a 1080p display now. Paired with my t520 with a 1366 display i’ve got a really good combination of mobile productivity machines. One for writing, one for work.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    That is way beyond my abilities. I wish I knew enough to swap the speakers. They’re shit.

    KillingTimeItself,

    it’s all pretty easy stuff. Especially with the older modules. You just need to be somewhat careful and very organized lol. I’m not actually sure if there is a speaker swap you can do on these tbh. That would be fairly easy to do though.

    As for the display swap, on the xx20 series you just remove the bottom plate, the keyboard, and then the top bezel, and then you can remove the screws that mount the display (the ones in the back) unroute all the wiring, and disconnect any connectors, and then do the same on another unit, and the reverse it. Twice. And boom, display swap. On the newer models i imagine it’s harder to do though. Particularly the ones where the keyboard isn’t removable from the top side.

    FlyingSquid, (edited )
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    unroute all the wiring

    And that’s where I would fuck it up. Or wiring it back up again rather.

    Edit: Looks like it can be done but fuck if I’m going to try.

    www.ifixit.com/Guide/…/143405

    KillingTimeItself,

    yeah that can be a little rough, take a picture beforehand if you really care. That’ll help. The older models are a little overwhelming with the amount of wires but entirely manageable.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I edited my post above. Looks like you can replace the speakers, but it’s a lot more work and a lot more chance of fucking up than I’m willing to chance. Maybe I’ll just get a bluetooth speaker.

    KillingTimeItself,

    if you ever have the money to spare, and want to fuck around, you can always buy another cheap thinkpad that doesn’t work, and give it a shot, or buy a cheap working one that you don’t particularly care for. There are options.

    Oh, and LOTS of information online.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    It might be fun to tinker with someday, but for now, I found a $10 bluetooth speaker that will work. Thanks though!

    KillingTimeItself,

    thats definitely a valid solution.

    Duamerthrax,

    I use a 300usd MacBook pro from 2013 that I put Linux Mint on. It looks exactly the same as a 2024 MacBook Pro.

    JargonWagon,

    Same. I got mine as a handmedown from a sibling. Works great with Linux Mint!

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    I read that Linux is a huge pain in the ass to put on a Macbook. Is it not?

    Duamerthrax,

    Depends on the model and distro. First time I did it was when I grabbed a Mint usb installer when I meant to grab a Mojave one for a 2012 Macbook Pro. I had to install wifi drivers with the ethernet plugged in. The 2013 one with Mint 21 worked without any extra effort.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Maybe it’s just the older Macbooks that have an issue with difficult installs. Or maybe Mint fixed whatever the problem was. Or this is just my bad memory again.

    borari,
    @borari@sh.itjust.works avatar

    It’s not, no. Even the new Apple Silicon chips would just required you to install an ARM build of whatever distro you want.

    FlyingSquid,
    @FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

    Good to know for possible future reference. Thanks.

    RememberTheApollo_,

    Yeah, BS. If you choose to buy an apple product, new or used, you are still supporting capitalism even if in name only. The product is almost synonymous with pursuing a social cache rather than just useful and mundane functionality.

    Checkplus,

    That sounds like a hard position to defend. I would love to hear what car you have.

    RememberTheApollo_,

    A decade + old Honda bought used with 100k+ miles on it. There’s no social cache with that old car.

    Checkplus, (edited )

    You did say new or used isn’t a deciding factor. Correct me if I’m wrong, butIt really sounded like you didn’t care how old the laptop was. A car is one of the biggest status symbols in modern society and I’d argue that my airpods on the bus laugh at your CR-V on the freeway thinking you’re the better socialist. (Sarcasm by the way, my real position is that judging people by their possessions is the real capitalist kool-aid and you’re drinking it just as much by buying into the Idea that certain brands put you on “the other team”. Also I’m the worst socialist, I can’t defend my consumerism in any area except transportation)

    RememberTheApollo_,

    You’ve removed choice from the discussion when that was the point I was trying to make. The meme specified someone choosing expensive cache items and slapping an AnCap sticker on it, the point being some form of hypocrisy. My point is one has a choice to buy a trendy expensive item or a cheaper just as functional item, used or new is irrelevant. My judgment is based on what we’re discussing in this meme with the context it was presented, and it’s disingenuous for you to arbitrarily remove that context of that discussion and accuse me of drinking kool aid.

    Checkplus,

    That’s not an AnCap (anarcho-capitalism) sticker it’s an anti-capitalisim sticker, but it’s obvious you knew that and just mixed up the acronyms so forgive me for being pedantic but it is important for the point I wanted to make. I don’t want you to think I forgot the context of the meme, but you shouldn’t forget the context of your comment. You have said directly that any apple product, new or used, with an anti-capitalist sticker on it would indicate hypocrisy by the owner. I said that would be a hard position to defend, and then got you to say that your car isn’t an example of hypocrisy using the fact that it’s used as support. I think that’s a solid hit on my point that your argument is difficult to defend because for some reason you get that defense and she doesn’t

    On the totally separate personal values-driven argument in the context of the meme, anti-capitalist doesn’t mean “responsible and frugal capitalism”. It means anti-capitalism, and while sure, there’s probably some hypocrisy there, the idea that the brand you pick says something about you is absolutely not one of the points they as a movement are making. For hypocrisy you have to show them saying one thing and doing a contrary one. To say that certain specific brands aren’t acceptable for people against capitalism is a misunderstand of anti-capitalisim. They all get nationalized and you’re still allowed to have cool shit in Star Trek.

    Cowbee,

    If you buy any product, you are supporting Capitalism. There’s very few ways to not support Capitalism at all, especially with regards to tech.

    RinseDrizzle,

    Vaguely related… reminding me of my struggle as I research investing in new laptop.

    Looking for something powerful enough for live DJ, live music production performance with groove box, keyboard, etc, ideally graphic design sufficient as well. Want ability to move my crafts to a buddy’s studio or a proper gig.

    Big needs of course are robust processing power/ram, loads of storage ideal, battery life a big plus, quieter than gaming PC preferred, lots of ports a must, and goddammit I want it to last more than a few years before it declines sharply.

    I really don’t want an Apple. Been there; done that; over it. College graphic design machine had a graphic card that crapped out extra early. Plenty of spots would recommend Apple. Haven’t gone too deep on Linux so no idea if software and live performance will work on that consistently and reliably. Generally use mostly Windows 10 these days.

    If anyone has any insights or recommendations on a lappy that checks my boxes I am all ears and eager for discussion!

    Liz,

    Take a look at the Framework 16. You can add a graphics card and the whole laptop is designed to be upgradeable in the same way a desktop is. Basically you buy the laptop and then replace or upgrade parts as you need to, no more need to buy a whole new rig every few years.

    RinseDrizzle,

    oOo, don’t believe I’ve stumbled across that before! Mighty intriguing concept, I’ll give it a gander.

    Cheers for the plug 🤙

    KillingTimeItself,

    now, i really only recommend this is if you dont mind spending a while getting yourself familiar with the lineup, and the used market, but i would recommend looking for a solid used thinkpad. I’m preferential to the t/w 420 or 520 series, you can get them in pretty decent condition for pretty cheap, though some of the newer ones are quite a bit more modern. They aren’t super flexible on ports, but they have a significant variety, as well as a number of integrated features. And of course docking stations, though im not sure if those disable on board ports or not.

    the t480 does also have a really cool feature where it has two batteries, one internal, and one external, and you can swap the external one as needed, so you basically have infinite battery life lol. The newer ones are alright, they don’t adhere to the design language of the older thinkpads though.

    The framework is a very solid bet if you want a no frills machine that’s modern though, can rep. They cost money though.

    RinseDrizzle,

    Big ups for the thoughtful write up! I’ll be sure to add that to my list as I dig in deeper.

    I’m graciously able to say I’m finally, finally at a stage where I have a lil extra fun money to play with. No Daddy Warbucks, but we can actually think about toys I’ve had on the wish list for ages. For something that I’ll be using for gigs I’m absolutely able to see value investing in something that will help me hone my craft.

    Certainly in no rush; I’d rather measure twice and purchase once. (Well maybe a bit of a rush lol that summer fomo will kick into high gear any minute now fuck me it’s basically April lol)

    Appreciate you, have a great weekend! 🤙

    KillingTimeItself,

    yeah, i’ve only just recently gotten involved in older thinkpads, and they certainly live up the reputation. A lot of them even have some pretty unusual features, which is highly welcome. The t480 battery swapping for instance.

    Personally im not too big on spending lots of money, i just hate spending obscene amounts of money on things where something cheaper and more interesting will do what i want. Though i dont mind spending money on things when the investment is clearly there either.

    If i had the money to spend, and i was going to run the ever living hell out of one, i would definitely be buying a framework. Otherwise i’d probably buy an old thinkpad, they’re cheap due to the volumes of them that were sold to businesses.

    Though it is also worth noting, a few OEMs now are doing similar things to framework, i know HP is, i want to say dell is? Dont quote me on it. But there are more things appearing in the market, that are bringing repair-ability back, which is good. Though im sure framework is still going to have a better community around it, especially if you like linux. That’s the other reason thinkpads are particularly popular, they’re out there, and lots of people have them, and lots of people use them. There’s tons of information on them, from thinkwiki, to the thinkpad community forum, and reddit of course.

    I wish you luck in your adventures, and perhaps some fun as well. (maybe pick up an older thinkpad just for the hell of it, give you something to work on as a side project) oh and if you do get into thinkpads, and you want some knowledge on the t/w 520 and possibly 420 series, as well as some of the later models, feel free to hit me up, i have some pretty good resources under my belt.

    RinseDrizzle,

    Damn decent of you, cheers! 🍻.

    I very well may take you up on that. Shouldn’t be too hard to justify a second new toy either 😂

    KillingTimeItself,

    well, you know where to find me if you decide as much. As a linux user it’s only right that i try indoctrinating people into the ways of the hardware and software shenanigans.

    okasen,

    So a perspective I haven’t seen here yet: in many places, Starbucks is the only suitable third space left. I.e. place that is not work/school or home. I have non-Starbucks cafes nearby, but due to astronomical and increasing rent for all the independent cafes in walking distance, they are in smaller buildings and they can’t afford to have people sitting for hours on laptops using the WiFi/talking to friends/reading a book. I still support my local cafes for food and coffee, or really short meetings with folks, but if I need to get out of the house and spend time in public where I’m not obligated to speedrun my coffee, Starbucks is The Choice.

    And that’s why i might be inside of a Starbucks while hating capitalism. Because capitalism made Starbucks the only corporation able to afford proper cafe space.

    (There is a library nearby, yes, but not with good space for sitting down and working on a laptop. And even having THAT Is a massive privilege)

    (Also I actually do have a MacBook that I do my personal stuff on, because of various bits of software i need that are OS specific, which is annoying as heck but i got used to my work mac anyways and then found a nice one used… so yeah.)

    systemglitch,

    Let me know when someone dies without Starbucks. I have all life, so take your time.

    Resonosity, (edited )

    I love it when people use the absolute-unethical capitalism comment when we do have initiatives out in the world that are progressing to indeed bring better conditions to workers or help solve other problems.

    See the following, in no particular order; also note that most of this is with reference to textiles, but some overlap with other sectors:

    • United Nations (aka Global Compact, Global Compact on Migration, Global Compact on Refugees)
    • OEKO-TEX
    • The Textile Exchange
    • Forest Stewardship Council
    • Science Based Targets Initiative
    • Global Standard (aka GOTS)
    • International Accreditation Forum (aka ISO)
    • SEDEX (aka SMETA)
    • PETA
    • Good Jobs First
    • Fairtrade Labelling Organization International (aka FairTrade)
    • B Lab
    • Bluesign Technologies
    • Social Accountability International
    • Climate Neutral
    • amfori (aka BSCI)
    • Worldwide Responsible Accredited Production (aka WRAP)
    • 1% For The Planet
    • Cradle to Cradle Products Innovation Institute
    • Sustainable Apparel Coalition
    • Stichting ZHDC Foundation
    • Fair Wear Foundation
    • Global Green USA
    • Global Reporting Initiative (aka GRI) via Corporate Register
    • Regenerative Organic Alliance (aka ROC)
    • Better Cotton Initiative (aka BCI)
    • CELC Developpement (aka European Flax™, Masters of Linen™ Certified)
    • Belgian Flax & Linen Association (aka Belgian Linen™ Certified)
    • European Union (aka Ecolabel Certified)
    • United States of America (aka USDA Organic)
    • American Apparel and Footwear Association
    • Canopy Planet
    • Ecological and Toxicological Association of Dyes and Organic Pigments Manufacturers (aka ETAD)
    • Better Work aka International Labor Organization aka United Nations / International Finance, Corporation aka World Bank Group
    • Open Supply Hub
    • TÜV AUSTRIA
    • International Association of Better Business Bureau
    • Business & Human Rights Resource Centre
    • U.S. Green Building Council (aka USGBC)
    • CSP Worldwide (auditor)
    • Ecovadis (auditor)
    • MSCI (auditor)
    • Sustainalytics (auditor)

    I’m sure there are plenty of others out there, but I think at least for the textile sector, there is a consorted effort towards a better economy for workers, users, and the planet. See also Fairphone and their FarTrade Gold program, as well as Framework laptops.

    KeenFlame,

    The “have no choice” argument is extremely thin nowadays and letting it fly is just leaking ignorance or at times hipocricy. Anyone living in the first world has an option to help and just want to blame the elite that are the offender. The assailants that enjoy the disparity in the world obviously aren’t going to do anything about it so it is just convenient whine

    MasterNerd,
    @MasterNerd@lemm.ee avatar

    As Linux enthusiast I think I have to jump in and say if you’re not using a 10-year-old Thinkpad bought second hand running EndeavorOS you’re not a true socialist

    (Obviously I’m not serious but Poe’s Law is a bitch)

    Rentlar,

    jump in interject for a moment

    FTFY.

    Templa,

    Are there any Thinkpads with dedicated gpus? I did a bit of a search but could only find ones with integrated graphics which for me is a deal breaker

    areyouevenreal,

    Yes several. Some have quadro graphics for professionals too.

    jawa21,
    @jawa21@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

    ThinkPad X1 Extreme. Good luck on getting it at a low price, though.

    cristo,

    Erm I run arch by the way

    lemmylem,

    If you’re not running a Libreboot Thinkpad T500 with Hyperbola GNU/Linux installed, you’re not a true socialist.

    0x2d,

    that’s the thinkpad my grandparents had before getting a new one in 2020

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