@TonyStark This is why we all need to vote. Elections right now are not about getting what you want. They are about arresting oppression and changing the playing field to lay the groundwork for positive change. Elections are about the numbers. Getting sufficient majorities to make positive changes. It's a long game, and we need to keep fighting, even if the frustrations are overwhelming. Stay the course. Build our numbers. Win everywhere and send these lunatic fascists packing.
Most importantly if the three people who didnt like either option had voted third party instead of not voting then there would have been a tie and they wouldnt have drove off the cliff or had to deal with a unwanted choice.
@LLS@mastodonmigration@msbellows@TonyStark I mean, this presupposes that there might be an option which isn't essentially "drive off a cliff" - which is not the political climate in which we currently live. I genuinely believe the government must be dissolved and rebuilt; and I believe it is coming soon - I just really hope it doesn't end up being the fascists who do it
@TonyStark@mastodonmigration@LLS@msbellows yeah, the graphic says "there's these options, only one of them is drive off cliff" I'm saying "all of the options are driving off a cliff, and its a waste of time and effort to vote". We need to organise, stop the bus, and get the fuck off
@LLS@msbellows@fcktheworld587@mastodonmigration One is literally “ice cream.” That’s like the option we have. It’s okay to just be nice to the OP, who probably thought they were doing a good, pleasant thing and now has kind of combative replies. Stuff like that hurts this platform. A lot.
@msbellows@LLS@fcktheworld587@mastodonmigration Sounds like it to me. Ice cream. Ice cream is the voting. There’s an option not to drive off the cliff if everyone votes for the ice cream 🍦.
@TonyStark@msbellows@LLS@mastodonmigration the importance of voting presupposes a good candidate, and an effective system of government - neither condition of which is true within contemporary America
@msbellows@mastodonmigration@fcktheworld587 Whatever. I’m untagging the OP since you’re not listening at all. Voting is how you get there. Even if you believe what you say about a new system, not voting isn’t getting you there. Muting this thread for sanity.
@TonyStark@msbellows@LLS@mastodonmigration anyways, I'm entirely too tired to be having any sort of reasonable discussion. I'm a grouchy toddler when I'm tired, and I respect you all more than to subject you to that. Goodnight, and I hope it to be a pleasant one for you all
Some of these 'not going to vote people' seem well intentioned and sincere in their belief that voting is for delivering things they want. (That guy was not one of them.) Recent experience is that you can have a rational discussion, reframing voting as a long struggle. We need to persevere even if we get knocked back. We may never get what we want, but we keep fighting, beating back oppression, adding to our numbers and trying to create a foundation for positive change.
The thing about many people like this guy is that they think the could do a job better than the professional, and attribute lack of success as incompetence. The reality is that stuff is hard. Teaching is hard. Engineering is hard. And being a politician is hard, particularly in the minority, or only a slim majority. If they want their politicians to succeed more, vote, and give them the power to do more, don't concede in a fit of pique.
@mastodonmigration@msbellows@LLS@curmudgeonaf Well put. I am a little out of energy on dealing with odd comments today. Personal stuff. World problems are never going to be entirely solved, but we can try as hard as we can to minimize their negative impacts. There will always be people in charge of making political decisions, no matter what system you have. We have some good people.
So many people fight to be able to vote. I was at a town hall with my Congressperson earlier today and voting access was one of the top 5 concerns people in my district brought up at the meeting. Sad to see people tromp on it.
@TonyStark I totally agree. Especially about us being nice. 😉 So many people are being gerrymandered out of their right to vote and some of these privileged delusional buttheads think a protest non vote makes sense and instead of having a decent respectful convo they get brittle & defensive. OK end of rant. You may return to your regularly scheduled programming. 😜 @curmudgeonaf@mastodonmigration@msbellows@LLS
Muted him too, but kudos for trying. Feel like these conversations are valuable. Many of these folks are on the right side, they are just very frustrated, naive about politics, and feel like they are following their principles. Sometimes they come around when it is framed as a long struggle against a capable opponent with no guarantees.
@mastodonmigration I hear ya. I have yet to come across one person online in the last 4 years or so that starts off a conversation like that and comes around, but I admire your positivity.
Not saying they come around, but hopefully it registers. Many of them are young and full of youthful idealism. It is very frustrating to be told you need to keep at it. They want a win. Unfortunately that's not how things work. Educating people about realism and incremental progress is tough. Sometimes it just takes getting older and more jaded.
Angry Person: I'm not voting because they are incompetent and don't deliver what I want.
MM: They aren't incompetent, they just can't give you these things because they don't have enough power. We don't have the House and the Senate majority is too slim.
AP: Tired of not getting what I want.
MM: We all are, but we have to keep trying to elect more progressives so we have more power. So your vote is crucial.
@msbellows@mastodonmigration@LLS Usually on here, the next part is “you can’t make me” or “it still won’t matter.” I’ve been doing this for a very long time. Like a long time. And not just here. But I appreciate the positivity.
Well, don't expect them to fold on social media, but hopefully it registers. If they are really progressive liberals, and not going to vote. In this election! That's some real mental gymnastics. Feel like they well find a way to come around eventually. Having sympathy for their frustration with the system can't hurt.
@LLS@mastodonmigration@msbellows That’s not what that account was doing. Other people, sure. That was some account from Canada stepping on a kind person’s useful graphic that a lot of people liked.
I’m out of time. I have a lot of experience with all of it and a lot quite successful in flipping seats and raising turnout. That’s about the end of it.
Feel like it is important to gage whether it is someone just being a deliberate jerk, or sincere frustration and anger. The latter is worth the time, the former is not.
No one is listening to your negativity here, but, before I mute you as well, I'm going to suggest in the future you come up with a viable alternative path to fix a few of the world's problems before claiming the path we choose to tread is impossible to navigate.
There may be a chance that all this crazy fascist BS is scaring some of them. Perhaps it will turn out that Trump's lunacy becomes an opportunity to really shift the game. That would be great. Crush this nonsense. Vote.
They’re still 7 up on us but with the redistricting wins and things like this, we can make it by next year for sure. I would really love a Speaker Jeffries.
@tobie1 Thanks! I usually make a lot of posts about that kind of thing, but I’ve been extremely distracted by other current events the last few months, and I’ve been unable to do them. Thanks for the help!
@TonyStark I know how you feel and am actually amazed that you're able to post on domestic politics when there's so much else going on that feels so personal. Hang in there. You're fighting the good fight for reason, democracy and a government that cares for people.
@TonyStark@tobie1 OMFG he finally made it to congress? good luck getting rid of him. he's your standard issue corporatist fascist and the kind corporatist Democrats treat as their bros; but he's the fucking worst.
@tobie1@VCP I mean, if you’re claiming this is your district less than a month out and you don’t know who’s running and quoting one thing from years ago, probably keep your opinion to yourself.
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