@panos@catodon.social avatar

panos

@panos@catodon.social

They/them. #Catodon co-founder and ux designer/project manager.
Living in Greece. Anticapitalist/anarchist, #vegan for the animals, #polyamorous, #genderfluid.
@ panosd:matrix.org on matrix.

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panos, to random
@panos@catodon.social avatar

I've noticed some people refer to me as a dev, although I never claimed to be one. One person even accused me of not having recent commits in Firefish. So... I have to confess I am not a dev.

My role in Firefish was community manager/project coordinator. But isn't it interesting that people assume I'm a dev because I was in the core team? It's so often that community-driven open source projects are run only by devs, that people just assumed I am a dev too. And, with all the respect to the wonderful dev community, I think that's kind of a problem.

You see, an open-source project needs much more than coding. My role in will include coordinating development, designing features, testing, communication and feedback from the community, managing issues on the repo, decision making, moderating catodon.social, participating and moderating the matrix channels and I'm sure more will be added to that list. Devs may or may not be good at these things - and this clearly affect some projects. Being a good dev doesn't necessarily mean being good at everything around running an open source project, and that's ok. There's a reason companies hire project managers when developing software. You can add every community request out there - if you don't keep UX on your mind and don't have a consistent vision for your software, it will end up poorly designed and bloated.

So, I have to warn you - I may not be suitable to answer your more technical questions! We have a support channel for that, and our lead dev Namekuji is more knowledgeable about the coding aspect - while other devs, who are interested in our direction, have already reached out and are starting to work with us. So hopefully we will soon have a lively dev and admin community where we can support each other.

I'd say that one of my main goals in Catodon is to offer a safe, inclusive and laid back environment where open source devs will be able to cooperate and contribute in a productive way. Making open source code is a wonderful gesture, you are sharing your work for everyone to freely use. And it deserves to be done in a well organized and self-fulfilling way! Good communication is not always easy, but it's definitely worth trying. We have incredibly talented coders here that can do wonders when working smoothly together. That's the mindset with which we'll be trying to make Catodon a community-driven project.

18+ maegul, (edited ) to bluesky
@maegul@hachyderm.io avatar

Sighs. I don’t do BlueSky much, but just had another instance of wondering if a somewhat notable person was on social media …

… and finding them not on the Fedi but BlueSky (and active too) … garnering an immediate and TBH slightly giddy/excited “oh! They’re here!” follow.

1/

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@maegul @dpflug very interesting discussion! I think we share a lot of concerns, the idea behind Catodon is actually this, that we need more communities - and software to focus in that direction: https://catodon.social/@catodon/pages/introducing-catodon

the_skotts, to random
@the_skotts@easymode.im avatar

@ward the future of Firefish doesn't look great. Any chance of moving this instance to IceShrimp or maybe Catodon? I know migrating from FF to IS is documented and has been done. The Catodon dev says that it should be doable but hasn't released the documentation for it yet.

RE: https://catodon.social/notes/9nvp68a5a10zrdi2

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@Amelia @ward @anniethebruce @the_skotts Hello! Renaming them is just the first step, we haven't even had our first release out (that's why we don't have migration instructions from ff yet). The intention is to indeed gradually make these features more like forums and blog posts. However, if you like/want all Misskey features, I would suggest going with something else, as we are trying to somehow unbloat this =)

panos, to random
@panos@catodon.social avatar

Alright, now that catodon.social is live (welcome new members!), let me explain some of the first changes we've done so far in , compared to .

We really tried to make the platform easier to understand and less overwhelming for new members. So we changed some icons and also some basic terminology:

  • Antennas are now Custom feeds
  • Channels are now Forums
  • Pages are now Blog posts
  • Boosts are now Reposts
  • Local timeline is called "This server" and Global timeline is called "All servers"

We also tried to cut down on menu items. So Lists and Custom feeds are now only accessible from the timelines, Groups are only accessible through Chat (which is the only feature they are used in anyway), Clips are now called Collections and are placed in a tab under Bookmarks. That's four menu items less, without losing any functionality! But we also removed a fifth item, Gallery, which was very half-baked and rarely used in most Firefish servers. Its functionality can more or less be covered by Blog posts.

There is no "Social" timeline: Instead, we have incorporated Social's functionality in Home. Posts from the local server are now displayed by default in Home, so that new users aren't greeted with an empty timeline. You can change that in Settings, so the Home timeline either works as follows only, or as "Social" in Misskey/Firefish.

There are other changes as well and there are more coming as we're preparing for our first official release, but these are some of the most striking ones you will see!

​:catodon:​

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@ArtBear timeline filters that will allow what you suggested are definitely in the to do list. Better followings management also makes sense, though I wouldn't prioritize it (but who knows, someone might want to offer to do that because they also want it themselves, so it could come sooner).

pseudonym, to random

On firefish/calckey, I tried the early "import" function and it spammed everyone on the server, and crashed the database. It was a mastodon import of about a years worth of posts.

Safe to do here @panos ?

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@pseudonym sure, that should be fine! The first implementation was indeed problematic, but we had fixed that in firefish a while back.

atomicpoet, (edited ) to random

Multiple people have asked me to respond to this post by @panos. We have never worked together since I was never a part of the dev team, but I appreciate all they’ve done for Firefish.

I, myself, had a big hand in the growth of Firefish. I was one of the project’s biggest donators, having provided ~$2,000 in funding over the course of a year. I also helped administer firefish.social, and advised on several community and marketing initiatives. I further spoke to several instance admins in back channels hoping to build strong relationships.

But as you see, I’m not sending this message from firefish.social, and that’s because of severe performance issues with it. To Kainoa’s credit, they did try to work and fix these issues to the best of their ability.

However, I have not spoken to Kainoa since October, and I don’t know the status of the project. Suffice it to say, I have not been working on Firefish for quite awhile.

Despite many people thinking I was a core member of the Firefish team, I never have been—and I always made that very clear. Instead, I saw my role primarily as empowering the project both financially and with other resources when needed.

As demonstrated by the fact I committed large amounts of time and money to the project, I genuinely have wanted Firefish to succeed. I still do, even if it’s with a successor project.

Working on any open source project is hard, and I commend anyone who attempts to do it.

RE: https://catodon.social/notes/9nvp68a5a10zrdi2

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@atomicpoet Hello Chris! I can confirm you were never a member of the Firefish team, Kainoa also made that clear to me that you were only trying to help and weren't involved further, and we both appreciated your support. Things didn't go great with Firefish, but hopefully we have a new chance to build an amazing fedi platform!

Here's our first blog post, explaining the mindset behind the new project: https://catodon.social/@catodon/pages/introducing-catodon

Also, registrations at catodon.social are now open!

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@testing @atomicpoet

the rebranding was laughable, too > surely, it was no community decision

Since I was there when that happened and I don't like speculation, I can testify that the new name was discussed at length in the Firefish devs chat, Kainoa asked for ideas, made polls among devs etc. Still, the final decision was Kainoa's, as with everything. I don't think anyone really loved "Calckey" anyway, I had also suggested changing the name before Chris did.

panos, to fediverse
@panos@catodon.social avatar

Ugh, I really tried to stay out of drama but I guess I have to say a few things. Most of you know me as a core team member, so I think I owe it to the admins of almost 500 firefish servers out there and to the almost 5000 members of firefish.social.

So, yeah, if you haven't noticed, things aren't looking good for firefish. Its owner, Kainoa, has practically abandoned the project, which had its last stable release out on July. My last message to them was a week ago, and I haven't heard back since. Firefish.social, besides the other severe technical problems it's had due to mismanagement in the last few months, now also has serious federation issues. I hope Kainoa is well irl, but this is irresponsible and unacceptable.

I hear some of you saying "but you're in the core team too, don't try to put the blame elsewhere!". So I have to explain what being a core team member in firefish meant. Kainoa invited me, Namekuji and a few others to be part of the "core team", but kept all decisions and responsibilities. We didn't co-own this. We never shared donations. We were just volunteers, who were honestly trying to make it a great project. This didn't work well due to concentration of power to one person, who didn't keep their promises. I don't mean to be harsh to Kainoa, I mean we knew they were only 19 when they started the project. Still, it's a bummer to anyone who chose to trust and support Firefish. This includes myself.

I don't know if it's early to consider firefish a dead project, but it sure seems like that for a few months now. Maybe it can be resurrected, idk. It's all up to Kainoa.

In the meantime, Namekuji and I are starting , which will have some differences with Firefish, and will include many changes I had discussed with Kainoa but were never implemented. If you decide to stick with us, we promise to be serious about this. I strongly believe in the fediverse and its potential, and I want to build a great platform for it. This was my goal when I chose to be involved in Calckey/Firefish. It's still my goal with Catodon, only this time I can stand behind it 100%, as the project will be co-managed by Namekuji and me. If Firefish left you with a bitter aftertaste, we hope we can build a better relationship and prove ourselves worthy of your trust. Catodon will go public in a matter of days, possibly even hours. We'll have more to say about its direction then.

In the meantime, I just wanted to share my apologies for any inconvenience regarding Firefish, as I'm still technically a core team member, whatever that means. But frankly, I tried so hard to make things go differently - but there's only so much you can do when it's someone else's project. I'm really sorry for how things went.

But this is not the end of the fedi journey for me. I'm super excited about the chance to do some things right this time with Catodon. Life goes on, I guess! Hope to see you soon on our repo, so we can start a new creative adventure together =)

​:catodon:​ xx

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@bumble Fully understand. Yeah, I think you're in good hands with Sharkey! We are not big fans of Misskey's direction so if your members preferred Sharkey to Iceshrimp, Catodon will go even further away from Misskey on some design aspects.

I had also warned Kainoa about the significance of the "flagship server" working flawlessly several months ago. I was actually against the idea of a huge "flagship server", but again, not my decision. Catodon will maintain catodon.social, but it will be with a slightly different mindset. More on that very soon, in the blog post where we'll be introducing Catodon and explaining our approach. @thefediwiki

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@Marie it is, we have partial Mastodon API support and we will soon implement the wonderful work Iceshrimp has done on that front. So you'll be able to use Catodon with Mastodon apps =)

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@Marie that's ok. It's just a name.

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@mike I think Catodon is pretty catchy and easy to remember! Better than "Calckey" at least... 😅
About the rest, I totally hear you and agree. I think you'll like what we'll be doing, because that's exactly the direction we'll be taking - try to make things a little easier to understand and less bloated. That's why we don't want to rebase to Misskey, like Sharkey did for example. All the confusing terminology and half-baked features are coming from Misskey, and we will be trying to fix that.

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

Catodon is live =)

RE: https://catodon.social/notes/9nw71dvtfg3a0rch

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

OK, since this post exploded (which means there is a lot of interest in !), and since some people might have misinterpreted some of the things I said, let me point out a few things:

I am NOT saying that Firefish is necessarily dead. I hope that this post works as a wake up call for Kainoa - whenever he sees it. If nothing changes (either Kainoa getting more involved again or sharing responsibilities or whatever), yes, it will be dead. Really hope something changes drastically, a lot of people love this project.

I am also NOT saying that is a continuation of firefish, but a different project. Honestly, if that's all you're looking for, there are other project which might be more suitable - we don't want to mislead anyone. We will gradually change quite a few things, the goal is to make it a great and easier to understand all-around software for fedi communities, so for example some of the misskey-specific features will go. In a way, it will sit somewhere between Mastodon and Misskey. So our goal is NOT to replace/continue firefish but to find our people, who will be interested in what we -and not firefish- are trying to do with the platform, and maybe do it together.

Hope this clears everything up.

blingbling, to FirefishTalk German

, oder ?
Leider scheint ausgebrannt zu sein. Wo geht die Reise hin? Vorteile? Nachteile? Ausharren?
@FirefishTalk
@catodon
@Sharkey
@grischa
@memo

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@tournesol these are indeed our first changes, but we'll be building on that! We will also be following Iceshrimp's development and borrowing whatever's useful. Catodon will eventually build a character and features of its own, just give us a little time for that to unfold =) @blingbling

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@grischa Hi! Not sure about , but I can make some clarifications about =)
It will be released in the near future, and what I have said is that we're not making a dramatic exit from the core team to start catodon. Doubt we'll actually continue working on ff, since not much seems to be currently moving there anyway. Our focus is absolutely on Catodon.
@blingbling @FirefishTalk @catodon @Sharkey @memo

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@grischa It is true that both projects are moving independently of Misskey's current development, so in that sense you're right, we're closer to Iceshrimp's direction than to Sharkey's. But that's not enough to say that the two projects are identical - you can already see we've made changes that are not in Iceshrimp, and as time passes and we make more changes it will be apparent that we don't necessarily have the same design goals. Things aren't linear like that, it's not just good/bad, there can also be different design choices among projects and that's ok. I can't speak for Iceshrimp, but we have a lot of our own ideas that we want to put in Catodon, and that's what we'll do. @tournesol @blingbling

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@grischa no, we're not trying to be a direct successor of firefish, we have lots of ideas of our own. So it would be strange to show up to the Iceshrimp team and tell them "hey how about making your project something different", we just started our own. It's all good, some people will prefer Iceshrimp, some people will prefer Sharkey, and I'm sure some people will prefer Catodon once we reveal more about what we'll be doing. It's not a competition! @tournesol @blingbling

panos, to random
@panos@catodon.social avatar

Hah, this is priceless, we haven't added any custom emoji on catodon.social yet, and I was thinking that we need to make a catodon emoji as well - but it seems that @AntoineD beat us to it! So here it is, a emoji, imported from kwak.cab! Cheers for that!

​:catodon:​

panos, to mastodon
@panos@catodon.social avatar

I know that people who run servers are probably somewhat frustrated right now, since the project's last stable release was back in July. I do hope Kainoa gets more active and things start rolling again, however I checked the closest alternatives/firefish forks. Another thing that makes open source software great: you never run out of options!

So, still pretty much looks and feels like firefish, but they've added some nice (performance, mostly) improvements and also have better api support. They also plan to do a full rewrite, which is quite an ambitious project. It's certainly a project worth watching.

on the other hand started as a firefish fork (from what I understood) but rebased to v13 (Firefish had cut ties with upstream misskey on v12) and is building on top of that. This is also a great option if you like Misskey's direction but want improvements like post editing.

And finally with , which is in the making and will soon be another option, we're taking a different approach. We'll implement some improvements from Iceshrimp, like the great work they've done on mastodon api support, but in general we won't exactly be taking the "improved misskey" direction. Instead, we'll be using Misskey/Firefish as our starting point, but we also want to simplify some things - as well as build extra functionality on top of the essentials. So some of the less important and useful features will be removed in order to offer a more consistent and user-friendly experience.

More on specific changes we're doing in a few days!

panos, to random
@panos@catodon.social avatar

Happy holidays, everyone! @namekuji is making some progress on and it's shaping up nicely. We have now set up LibreTranslate on catodon.social and we should be a few days away from opening registrations! We'll also make our repo on public, although our first stable release won't arrive before mid-January.

panos, to random
@panos@catodon.social avatar

How does Libre Translate compare to DeepL translation in ? I've only used the latter, since Libre Translate support was added after we had set it up.

panos,
@panos@catodon.social avatar

@tournesol thanks, I see! We set it up in catodon.social since that post, and I don't have any major complains - but I've only used it to translate to english, like you said. Comparing greek to english translations with both tools, DeepL was usually a little more accurate, but LibreTranslate seems perfectly fine and usable.

panos, to fediverse
@panos@catodon.social avatar

I'm super excited about the . I've been online since the 90s, been through most evolution stages of the internet, and it feels like we're changing it once again - and this time in a good way.

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