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pfefferle, (edited ) to random German
@pfefferle@notiz.blog avatar

ActivityPub – The evolution of RSS

Dave Winer (@davew) stellt (sich) auf seinem Blog und auf Mastodon die Frage:

What does ActivityPub does that RSS doesn’t?

und nimmt vorweg:

Off the top of my head, it’s not the ability to syndicate, RSS already does that. I can follow anyone on any server.

Es macht natürlich Sinn, erstmal zu klären was RSS ist und kann, um auf die Vorteile von ActivityPub einzugehen!

Also RSS steht für „Really Simple Syndication“ und ist eine Art „Digitale Einbahnstraße“, so zu sagen der Newsletter oder Podcast für Texte auf Webseiten. Und weil es dem Podcast so ähnlich ist (und eigentlich auch dessen technische Basis) nennt es Dave Winer auch neuerdings „Textcasting„, was ich großartig finde!

Applying the philosophy of podcasting to text.

Und technisch gesehen ist das auch der große Unterschied zu ActivityPub. Während ich bei Textcasting, Texte nur abonnieren kann, habe ich durch ActivityPub auch einen Rückkanal, der mir ermöglicht, die Texte auch zu liken, mit meinen Freunden Followern zu teilen und zu kommentieren!

In den Kommentaren zu Daves Mastodon Post wird auch fast ausschließlich über diese technischen Aspekte diskutiert. Es geht um Push vs. Pull und immer wieder darum, dass RSS ja eigentlich vollkommen ausreichend und viel simpler ist.

@manton fasst es ganz gut zusammen:

I think RSS + Webmention (for sending replies) gets you 90% of the way there. ActivityPub does provide a comprehensive framework for the rest, though, and perhaps follows modern social network conventions more closely, e.g. liking posts, approving follows.

https://micro.blog/manton/34864514

Aber ist die Technik das, was hier wirklich den Unterschied macht?

Die Diskussion erinnert mich sehr an den RSS vs. Atom „War“, von dem @tantek.com@tantek.com in einem IndieWeb Vortrag spricht.

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„Tantek Çelik – The once and future IndieWeb“ direkt öffnen

I saw the best minds of my time waste our time arguing about syndication formats, arguing about plumbing, user don’t care about plumbing but for some reason we thought that that mattered, we thought that actually really mattered which XML tags to use in RSS versus Atom. […] So we focused on the wrong things we argued about plumbing instead of user experience.

Tantek Çelik – The once and future IndieWeb

Vielleicht kommt man mit RSS, WebSub und Webmentions auf ein relativ ähnliches Ergebnis und es ist technisch gesehen wahrscheinlich auch etwas einfacher umzusetzen… Aber sind RSS und ActivityPub wirklich so weit auseinander?

Für mich ist ActivityPub einfach nur die logische Weiterentwicklung, oder auch die nächste Generation von RSS. Wer sich die erste Version von ActivityStreams (das Format, welches ActivityPub benutzt um Aktivitäten auszuzeichnen) etwas genauer ansieht, erkennt vielleicht ein alt bekanntes Format.

<span><code class="hljs language-xml"><span class="hljs-tag"><<span class="hljs-name">entry</span> <span class="hljs-attr">xmlns</span>=<span class="hljs-string">"http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"</span>       <span class="hljs-attr">xmlns:activity</span>=<span class="hljs-string">"http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/"</span>></span>  <span class="hljs-tag"><<span class="hljs-name">id</span>></span>tag:photopanic.example.com,2009:photo/4352<span class="hljs-tag"></<span class="hljs-name">id</span>></span>  <span class="hljs-tag"><<span class="hljs-name">title</span>></span>My Cat<span class="hljs-tag"></<span class="hljs-name">title</span>></span>  <span class="hljs-tag"><<span class="hljs-name">published</span>></span>2010-11-02T15:29:00Z<span class="hljs-tag"></<span class="hljs-name">published</span>></span>  <span class="hljs-tag"><<span class="hljs-name">link</span> <span class="hljs-attr">rel</span>=<span class="hljs-string">"alternate"</span> <span class="hljs-attr">type</span>=<span class="hljs-string">"text/html"</span> <span class="hljs-attr">href</span>=<span class="hljs-string">"..."</span> /></span>  <span class="hljs-tag"><<span class="hljs-name">activity:object-type</span>></span>photo<span class="hljs-tag"></<span class="hljs-name">activity:object-type</span>></span>  <span class="hljs-tag"><<span class="hljs-name">activity:verb</span>></span>post<span class="hljs-tag"></<span class="hljs-name">activity:verb</span>></span><span class="hljs-tag"></<span class="hljs-name">entry</span>></span></code></span><small class="shcb-language" id="shcb-language-1"><span class="shcb-language__label">Code-Sprache:</span> <span class="shcb-language__name">HTML, XML</span> <span class="shcb-language__paren">(</span><span class="shcb-language__slug">xml</span><span class="shcb-language__paren">)</span></small>

ActivityStreams wurden 2011 als Namespace für Atom definiert um RSS/Atom Feeds mit Informationen anzureichern, die man aus den sozialen Netzwerken kennt. Das ist hauptsächlich der object-type um neben Texten auch Bilder oder Videos auszuzeichnen, und verb um klar zu machen um was für eine Aktion es sich genau handelt.

OStatus, der Vorgänger von ActivityPub, benutzte übrigens genau dieses Format um Aktivitäten auszuzeichnen!

Erst 6 Jahre später wurde die Version 2.0 als reines JSON Format veröffentlicht, was aber auch Sinn macht, da JSON das Format ist, welches moderne APIs eben sprechen.

Das heißt ActivityStreams ist im Prinzip eine moderne Form von RSS und ActivityPub ist einfach „nur“ ein PubSub System welches drumherum gebaut wurde.

Aber zurück zur Usability!

Die Frage ist für mich nicht RSS oder ActivityPub… Die wesentlich interessantere Frage ist: Feed-Reader oder Mastodon?

Die RSS oder IndieWeb Community (und ich zähle mich zu beiden, es geht hier nicht um Blaming) hat bisher leider kein massentaugliches Tool etabliert, welches mit der Usability und Reichweite von Mastodon (und Mastodon ist hier nur exemplarisch für eine Fediverse Platform… Pixelfed, Misskey und andere machen einen ähnlich guten Job) mithalten kann. Mastodon ermöglicht das dezentrale folgen, abonnieren, kommentieren, liken und sharen in einer simplen Oberfläche. Kein RSS-Reader, den man zum Kommentieren verlassen muss und kein IndieWeb-Reader, der eine eigene Webseite mit diversen Login- und Ping-Mechanismen voraussetzt!

Mastodon zeigt außerdem sehr deutlich dass Technik austauschbar ist, immerhin ging die Plattform 2016 mit OStatus an den Start und schwenkte erst zwei Jahre später auf ActivityPub!

Ich beschäftige mich jetzt seit ungefähr +/-15 Jahren mit dem Thema, welches man heute als Fediverse oder IndieWeb zusammen fassen würde, und habe auch ein gutes Jahrzehnt an Arbeit in diverse IndieWeb Projekte gesteckt, aber Mastodon und ActivityPub sind in ihren Auswirkungen bisher konkurrenzlos!

Dank Mastodon und ActivityPub habe ich wieder bis zu 50 Kommentare auf einen einzigen Blog-Post (Likes und Boosts nicht mit gezählt) während über RSS (gemessen an Kommentaren über das WordPress Formular) und Webmentions vielleicht eine Reaktion im Monat kommt.

liaizon,
@liaizon@wake.st avatar

@pfefferle @pfefferle many fediverse software support "Reactions" being a more advanced "Like"

look at the bottom of this post in a new window: https://fedibird.com/@noellabo/108371701774094182 (this is running a fork of Mastodon called Fedibird by @noellabo)

and heres the same note displayed in
https://misskey.io/notes/90rfiucoqc

fediverseobserver, to fediverse

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fediverseobserver, to fediverse

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fediverseobserver, to fediverse

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KazukyAkayashi, to fediverse

Présentement en train de faire un thème clair pour #Misskey / #Iceshrimp.
Finalement je m'éloigne un peu de la base dont je me suis inspiré ​:pikasmilesweat:​

maegul, (edited ) to ghost
@maegul@hachyderm.io avatar

I think the and federations pose interesting questions about what platforms can and should be.

Do we actually want blogs and feeds of blogs folded into a mastodon/microblog social feed?

Do we want to read and comment on blogs on mastodon?

Do we want all the diversity of the fediverse fed into a single platform's UI and hope that it works well?

Are we worried that some choices by our platform or instance admin might hinder this process?

I'm rather skeptical.

1/

mima,

@maegul

I think the fedi needs to be more about clients/apps than it is currently.

Agreed, and I kinda touched on this earlier about how the should've simply been a frontend where people just use their main fedi account instead of having to create another account for forums in a link aggregator... ​:sagume_think:​

Tbh all the implementations in the first place should've been backends first and foremost. Why should I not be able to have 's frontend in or ? And the other way around too. This does mean that we will have to all agree on a common client API and MastoAPI will dominate, but I'd rather have Mastodon dictate client API than fediverse implementations. ​:seija_coffee:​

RE: https://makai.chaotic.ninja/notes/9s85trbv7h

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mima, to fediverse

devs with their achievements, MFM, and games they're cooking: ​:sweaty_elly:​

RE: https://lain.com/objects/d87ca59d-02b8-4588-9fae-46c1ab263073

fediverseobserver, to fediverse

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mima, to lemmy

Tbh I think the #Threadiverse like #Lemmy and #kbin would make a lot more sense if they were simply frontends and perhaps a backend too but just for the forums themselves. IOW, no accounts live in Lemmy or kbin, all users post from their preferred #fediverse account instead.

Sure you can already technically do that from your #Mastodon or #Misskey or whatever fedi you're in, but that means using whatever app you're on right now, which almost certainly means it's not a #linkaggregator UI. Not ideal at all.

If I had any good programming skills I'd make it so that the link aggregator is merely a client that uses the Mastodon (with #Pleroma extensions too) and Misskey APIs, treat (almost) all #ActivityPub actors as their own forums or subs, and each post would be a boost from said actor. Users authenticate from their preferred fedi account. Voting would be tallied by few special actors, which internally receive votes via direct messages (the app will make this transparent, but this also means you can technically vote without the app if you know the exact command), which will effectively make votes secret to non-admins like in #Reddit. Users can also choose which vote counters they want to rely from.

This would make the fediverse-powered link aggregator very flexible and minimal, imo. It may look janky but that's the general idea I have. ​:seija_coffee:​

RE: https://mementomori.social/users/owen/statuses/112285464236904945

mima, to fediverse

Wtf old had a chat-like UI? I wish they kept that because that definitely could pull in some users from ​:alice_pog:​

https://www.patreon.com/posts/misskey-updates-49476819

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@okpierre@mastodon.social avatar
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fediverseobserver, to fediverse

Found 3 new servers and 10 servers died off since 3 hours ago.

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nacii, to fediverse
@nacii@misskey.io avatar

I
@syuilo ​:icon_syuilo:​​:mama:​の方にも​:now_send_gold:​しました
​:itumo_arigatou:​

stefan, to accessibility
@stefan@stefanbohacek.online avatar

Hm. I wonder if I can get any fediverse admins onboard to disable all images on their instance on the World Sight Day in October, so that only alt text shows up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Sight_Day

stefan,
@stefan@stefanbohacek.online avatar

And of course, if you run a #pixelfed, #misskey, #firefish, or any other #fediverse server, I'd love to hear how you'd go about this.

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me, to fediverse
@me@mszpro.com avatar

✨Introducing Voice & Video call on the Fediverse ✨

Schedule a call by inputting the other’s Fediverse handles.
Invitees will see a Join button in your invite post to join the call.

  • Calls are done using Peer-To-Peer (private)
  • Encryption (GCM, ECDSA)
  • Use AR Video effects.
  • Works for iOS and Mac.

In the next version, I will add screen sharing!

Download Sora: https://apps.apple.com/jp/app/sora-for-mastodon-bluesky/id6450969760?l=en-US




video/mp4

fediverseobserver, to fediverse

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madomado, to fediverse
@madomado@floss.social avatar

also I'm today years old when I realise #Misskey doesn't support polls with multiple selections

Linux,
@Linux@sakurajima.social avatar

@madomado
Stock Misskey does not have multiple selection polls?

Come to the dark side (Sharkey) -we have cookies and milk. lol

Linux,
@Linux@sakurajima.social avatar

@madomado

I do not understand why Mastodon became so popular in the Fediverse. Once you learn about all the advantages of Misskey and the many forks (Sharkey, Ice Shrimp, etc) and how limiting and sometimes uncooperative Mastdon can be (this being an example), it makes you wonder. lol

#Fediverse #Misskey #Sharkey #IceShrimp

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