What is a gender neutral replacement for man, guys, buddy, etc?

So I’ve realized that in conversations I’ll use traditional terms for men as general terms for all genders, both singularly and for groups. I always mean it well, but I’ve been thinking that it’s not as inclusive to women/trans people.

For example I would say:

“What’s up guys?” “How’s it going man?” "Good job, my dude!” etc.

Replacing these terms with person, people, etc sounds awkward. Y’all works but sounds very southern US (nowhere near where I am located) so it sounds out of place.

So what are some better options?

Edit: thanks for all the answers peoples, I appreciate the honest ones and some of the funny ones.

The simplest approach is to just drop the usage of guys, man, etc. Folks for groups and mate for singular appeal to me when I do want to add one in between friends.

uhmbah,

'round here “guys” has become gender neutral. But “folks” is my go-to.

Tlaloc_Temporal,

Guy is actually from the proper name Guy, variant of Guido. It was originally used as a mild insult, refering to Guy Fawkes, infamous terrorist.

I think “guys” is perfectly gender neutral, in the same way “you idiots” is.

uhmbah,

Haha love it.

Pan_Ziemniak,

Same. And i will die on the hill that dude is gender neutral. Dudette sounds like a mini dude, and no way am i calling into question any dudes “dudeness” on account of their gender.

Glytch,

I subscribe to the “Goodburger” school of thought on the subject: I’m a dude, you’re a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, we’re all dudes.

Doubleohdonut,

What about El Duderino, if you’re not into the whole brevity thing? 😁

uhmbah,

My 8 yr old grand daughter calls everyone “bro”. Including her mom!

Pan_Ziemniak,

Thats my point! My cis woman SO? dude. My trans woman friend? dude. Shes no longer with us, but my very very princess like girl dog? fucking dude.

I feel like i def call my SO, bro, too.

maxprime,

A lot of people use “folks” for plural.

I feel like “guys” is fairly un-gendered but people disagree with me. Personally, I haven’t used the word “guys” to refer to anything male in what seems like forever.

“Bud” and “fella” are good singulars.

TWeaK,

I used to have a maths teacher who called almost every number “guy”.

“And this guy goes to zero, while this guy goes to infinity!”

FlashMobOfOne, (edited )
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

“Guys” is ungendered.

Reconsider whether it’s worth being friends with people that insist on fighting over the term “guys”.

And if you are surrounded by a lot of particularly sensitive people, just call them “friend” or “friends”. It works for people you both like and dislike. Glorious.

mostNONheinous, (edited )

If you are in the Midwest, Guys is absolutely gender neutral.

Edit: downvote me all you want guys, it won’t change the truth.

FlashMobOfOne,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

It is indeed.

FlashMobOfOne,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

Meh, people who want to fight over the term ‘guys’ are in the minority.

They can probably just be ignored.

maxprime,

Sure, but as a professional (teacher) I’m not willing to put my career on the line by challenging a sensitive parent. A few years ago we were told not to use that word, and when it comes to things like that, I do as I’m told.

FlashMobOfOne,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

That makes sense.

Teachers have to do a lot of stupid shit these days.

jumjummy,

“Listen up you little shits”. Perfectly non-gendered!

dead,

Aw yeahhhh, everyone’s into guys 🫦

(well, except aro/ace people maybe)

GlitterInfection,

Modifying my language choices is literally the least I can do to make people feel more included, so anyone who can’t fathom doing that is for sure, not worthy of being a friend.

MissJinx,
@MissJinx@lemmy.world avatar

I’m a cis woman in IT, I’m guy, dude, man, bro… I don’t really care. You can change to make a specific person feel more confortable but most woman don’t care to be dude or guy

unfnknblvbl,

I really, really wish we could degender “guy” and “guys”. I know plenty of people of all genders that use the words in general to describe people, objects, concepts, everything. The only holdouts are people that insist on it specifically meaning males. Ironically, these people are often the hardcore feminists.

If other English words can change their meanings and be claimed/reclaimed by certain groups, why can’t others?

Take guy! Use it to describe whatever you want! Free it of its historically phallic shackles!

frefi, (edited )
@frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Yeah, I agree with you gal, while we’re at it I wish we could degender “gal”, “chick”, and “doll” too. Equality for all!

ShepherdPie,

This sounds not to dissimilar to those who argued that legalizing gay marriage would lead to people marrying horses or their cars.

frefi,
@frefi@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

How’s that? I’m not arguing against anything, I said I want more words to be disgendered

How come people seem to only want words that were originally masculine coded words to be disgendered, but don’t want that for words that are originally feminine coded?

jabib,

My car married the horse down the road last year

ready_for_qa,

Guy was originally gender neutral as it was used to call someone stupidly bold (iirc). The term was most often used toward a single gender that was known for being stupidly bold and became synonymous with that gender. That’s how it became gendered.

RampageDon,

A wise man once said, “I’m a dude, he’s a dudes, she’s a dude. We’re all dudes. Hey!”

ada, (edited )
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Strange though, that when you ask most men how many dudes they’ve slept with suddenly, she’s not a dude…

Jolteon,

There’s a very big difference between “dude”, referring to someone you’re talking to, and “a dude”, referring to someone you were talking about.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Not to me there isn’t…

gofsckyourself, (edited )

It’s like the difference between “my shit”, “your shit”, and “that shit”. You’re not actually referring to your own things as feces, or calling it “shitty”. It’s just your shit. As in “Don’t touch my shit”. But when you’re referring to someone else’s shit as “your shit” or “that shit” it’s more derogatory. Like, “clean up that shit” or “get your shit out of here”.

The context changes “shit” from derogatory to neutral. Similarly, “dude” can be both gender specific and neutral depending on context.

Note that people are still allowed to prefer not to be referred to as “dude”, but it’s a gender neutral term in many contexts nonetheless.

teawrecks,

In the '60s, I made love to many, many women, often outdoors, in the mud and the rain, and it’s possible a man slipped in. There would be no way of knowing.

Matriks404, (edited )

Then educate yourself. See definitions 1 and 2 for noun and definition for interjection.

TheBest,

Ive generally always agreed with the former comment, but I’ve heard this argument a few times and it does demonstrate the disconnect well. I’ve switched it up to a simple y’all.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yep. Something that can only ever mean “neutral” or “man” isn’t neutral

ShepherdPie,

That’s just how our language works. You can also use the word “fuck” in many ways that have wildly different meanings.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It’s funny how “just how it works out” always leads to “neutral” words having double meanings that equal “man” but never “woman”

Maybe it’s not “just how it works” and maybe it’s just bias…

ShepherdPie,

You’re literally arguing that this word should specifically exclude women, while complaining that double meanings never include women. It makes no sense. Why wouldn’t you want to take power over the word to make it apply to women too?

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

There is no world where “Check out that dude” will mean a woman.

It will always be “neutral” or masculine.

And that’s not neutral.

I have zero interest in fake neutrality

gofsckyourself,

That’s because context matters.

“You’re shit” and “You’re the shit” mean completely different things

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Of course. No one literally thinks that “dude” always means man.

The issue isn’t the obvious truth of the different meanings. The issue is that those different meanings aren’t neutral like they claim to be, because they rely on the idea of men being the “default” state of people.

There’s a reason there isn’t exactly a large number of words in use that can men “woman” and “everybody” and that’s because most men would be uncomfortable with that.

Yet somehow, the opposite is fine?

gofsckyourself, (edited )

Of course. No one literally thinks that “dude” always means man.

Your points in this thread are certainly implying that “dude” is always a man. When you say “if a word is either neutral or masc, then it’s not neutral”, then you’re literally saying it always is masc.

The issue is that those different meanings aren’t neutral like they claim to be

So, neutrality is a spectrum? How do you define the different parts of the neutrality spectrum?

because they rely on the idea of men being the “default” state of people.

That’s a claim that needs some data to back up.

because most men would be uncomfortable with that. Yet somehow, the opposite is fine?

I don’t give a single shit about what they think. Why should anyone?

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I don’t give a single shit about what they think. Why should anyone?

I mean, clearly you do. If you didn’t give a shit, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

And just like you, enough people “give a shit” about man being a stand in for the default human, that despite literally thousands and years of language development not a single case of “woman as the default” has entered common usage.

That’s what bias looks like.

Shanedino,

Hot take alert… Bitch has seen to evolved similar to Australian’s cunt at this point. “Women as the default” but it is still neutrally used.

thistledown,
@thistledown@rblind.com avatar

Your examples of female-based neutral words are pejorative. Do you have examples not rooted in misogyny?

Shanedino,

Queen

thistledown,
@thistledown@rblind.com avatar

“Queen” by itself refers to either women or gay men. It is not gender neutral. “Drama queen” is applied to all genders, but, again, this example is pejorative toward women. Do you have any examples of women-centric language that can refer to all genders, but that is not negative toward women?

Shanedino,

I think we would need to clarify on what your definition of gender neutral is before continuing. I would consider it gender neutral because I and the people I hang around would use the term with a person regardless of their gender. Maybe that’s exclusive to us but also you defined more than one gender that can be described by the term so a looser definition of gender neutral would still apply. Women and men (even though they are gay) are very clearly two different genders.

gofsckyourself,

I find your perspective and words judgemental, assumptive, and accusatory.

I can see no evidence of a good faith discussion from your end, so I will no longer continue with you.

I hope these words might help you move beyond the veil that causes you to be so assumptive:

If you look for the light, you can often find it.But if you look for the dark that is all you will ever see.

FauxPseudo, (edited )
@FauxPseudo@lemmy.world avatar

As a former resident of San Diego I have no problem sleeping with dudes. Because everyone is dude.

People think they’re clever when they ask “would you sleep with the dude?” My response is " bold of you to assume that I haven’t." Everyone is dude. You can try to twist things as much as you like but dude normalization reigns supreme.

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I was talking about the default assumptions people make when they hear the word. Your circumstances don’t come in to it, unless your claim is that most people share your experiences

FauxPseudo,
@FauxPseudo@lemmy.world avatar

In San Diego the default assumption of “dude” is that it can be literally anyone or any thing.

The people there accepted this decades ago. It’s not one person’s experience. It’s a shared experience of millions. It’s a geographically specific situation with the Smurf language phenomenon. Any noun can be Smurf and everyone there understands the smurfing meaning when it’s smurfing said.

Late2TheParty,
@Late2TheParty@lemmy.world avatar

Out of the mouth of babes… 🥰

I believe that sentiment was also uttered by another wise man. A man of his time. Mr. Jeffrey Lebowski.

cyborganism,

y’all

JoMiran,
@JoMiran@lemmy.ml avatar

Y’all doesn’t get enough love. It is gender neutral and extremely versatile.

Reverendender,

It’s become the go-to in my company

clif,

Do you work with me? I’m in the US south and my EU colleagues love “y’all” and have started using it (ironically or not :) pretty often.

Warms my heart.

TheGiantKorean,
@TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world avatar

I have no hint of a Southern accent, but when I moved here “y’all” became almost an instant part of my vocabulary.

Reverendender,

A LOT of my company is remote, but we are headquartered in Providence Rhode Island.

xmunk,

Vosotros agrees.

richieadler,

Ustedes if you’re less formal or you live outside Spain 😁

xmunk,

if you’re less formal

What a fun way to phrase that. You’re not wrong but it’s making me giggle.

azimir,

Or in German: euch

cyborganism,

I’m under the impression that you pronounce it the same way this cat looks.

https://lemmy.ca/pictrs/image/b6c6451d-1f82-4212-9497-45f797242dc9.png

azimir,

You know… that’s about right.

cyborganism,

😂😂😂😂😂

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

I still wonder why English (a Germanic language) doesn’t have its own pronoun for the plural 2nd person like German (euch) or Dutch (jullie), I think it kinda helps with distinction between talking to one person and talking to multiple people.

The problem is… what pronoun should we choose? I think “yinz” would sound kinda cool, but nobody outside of a very specific spot in the US actually uses it (other than myself I guess).

sxan,
@sxan@midwest.social avatar

I agree. It’s the plural of “you” that should be the official standard, since it disambiguates “you.” It can even be broadened to include larger groups via “all y’all,” as in, not just y’all in talking to, but all y’all in the house.

It can replace “guys”, but not “man,” though.

jungle,

The plural of you is yous or ye. In Ireland at least.

MadBob,

It sounds cringworthy if you’re not American though. The standard way of saying it is “you lot” and other dialects, like mine, have “yous”.

flicker,

Here where I’m from in the US, you occasionally hear a “y’alls” and now I’m going to start using it as a cultural gap between your dialect and mine.

nilloc, (edited )

Where I’m from people just assume you’re a hick is you say y’all. It’s not very common in the northern, out Midwest of the US, but everywhere in the south.

Purplexingg,

I can’t do it, I don’t want to sound like I’m from the South.

hglman,

Take it from them!

Zitronensaft,

If everyone starts using it, it won’t sound southern any more. C’mon, you know you want to.

ieightpi,

I use y’all a lot and im near Chicago

Cagi,

I’ve statted using it and I’m Canadian.

greenhorn,

I’ve started using it and I’m north of Canada … In Detroit

azimir,

Did you know that you can be north of Canada … in California?

…quoracdn.net/main-qimg-75f887668c7f322a0dd1a226e…

greenhorn,

At a more northern latitude than part of Canada. Detroit is directly north of part of Canada

dead,

TIL

MajorMajormajormajor,

What in the world. They need to fix that on the next patch.

Nemo,

Me too, but I’m from 'round Minnesota so it’s more like ja’ll.

turkishdelight,

yall sounds super trashy.

Carighan,
@Carighan@lemmy.world avatar

Scott the Woz on Lemmy? :o

cyborganism,

“Hey y’all, Scott here.”

Pulptastic,

you’uns

NigelFrobisher,

Youse if you’re a Geordie.

BlueEther,
@BlueEther@no.lastname.nz avatar

further down under you may hear “hey, yous lot…”

survivalmachine,

Or if you’re near Pittsburgh, “yinz” is the proper spelling/pronunciation.

TheGiantKorean,
@TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world avatar

And, for larger groups, all y’all.

lady_maria,
@lady_maria@lemmy.world avatar

yinz

inb4_FoundTheVegan, (edited )
@inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world avatar

Bingo. I use y’all for everything. Even the singular. It’s casual, neutral and relaxed.

Emma_Gold_Man,

For those not in the US south and afraid of being judged, “all” on its own is an option.

“Hi all” is unlikely to raise any eyebrows

BonesOfTheMoon,

I say y’all. It’s inclusive.

tetris11,
@tetris11@lemmy.ml avatar

It is, but I feel as a non-southerner (or even US), I feel obliged to go full Sandy Cheeks and it never ends as well as I think it does.

Arfman,

I’m in Australia and I’ve started using this, in addition to folks

TheWoozy,

Youens

BonesOfTheMoon,

Yowwens!

Resol,
@Resol@lemmy.world avatar

For me it’s just “all”.

danhakimi,
danhakimi avatar

wait, is "buddy" gendered?

I like to mix it up. but language is context dependent. "buddy" is a go-to of mine, and feels entirely gender neutral.

"my people" is good for plural.

"friend" is good as long as you have the right rhythm with it. Like, you know, in the second person, like "hello, friend."

"bro" obviously doesn't work, but I have casually referred to trans friends as "broham" and they didn't seem to mind. I don't do it often, but sometimes mixing in a good bro pun is more fun that way... go a little over the top, call somebody brobrahk brobrahma, nobody's going to be thinking that you're implying gender, it's an equally ridiculous term to call anybody by. Similarly, although context dependent, there are implicitly feminine words you can use, although some of them can be degrading in the wrong context. "Gurl," "bitch," and "slut" can work, as long as it's ridiculous enough in context not to be taken seriously. I'm a guy, I've had friends call me these. "Gurl" might not be the best for a nonbinary friend or a trans man friend, so be careful with it.

I don't know, I only have a few nonbinary friends, I guess, and I mostly refer to most of them by their names.

Agent641,

“What is up, my mammals?”

SturgiesYrFase,
@SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml avatar

Are assuming my genus?

golden_zealot, (edited )
@golden_zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

Fellas

edit: please correct me if you believe I am wrong, I am open to discussion.

Floey,

I’ve heard the term fellas used a lot specifically to delineate something as gendered. “It’s for the fellas” = “It’s a dude thing”

golden_zealot,
@golden_zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

I see, I think this is true colloquially, just not in definition.

Abird1620,

Isn’t that also for dudes?

golden_zealot,
@golden_zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

Not inherently to my knowledge.

It is a modification of ‘fellows’, fellows etymology coming from ‘late Old English fēolaga ‘a partner or colleague’ (literally ‘one who lays down money in a joint enterprise’), from Old Norse félagi, from fé ‘cattle, property, money’ + the Germanic base of lay1.’

Colloquially, the term might often reference men, but I cant find any evidence it is exclusive to them.

Abird1620,

Not only was this response well written, I enjoyed the fact. Thanks for making my day through a little factoid.

golden_zealot,
@golden_zealot@lemmy.ml avatar

No worries, have a good day :)

intensely_human,

Man, guys, buddy, etc

Just use them as gender neutral. Done.

TheGalacticVoid,

Tack on bro, sis, king, queen, and dude, and you’ve got a ton of words to choose from

OurToothbrush, (edited )

How many guys have you had sex with recently?

jsomae, (edited )

It’s context-dependent. “They” as gender-neutral was also considered context-dependent until recently.

  • “I met someone and they said…” would have been accepted generally
  • "I met a woman and they said…" is only recently acceptable.
OurToothbrush,

I agree that it can sometimes be gender neutral. I do not agree that it is gender neutral.

Referring to a group of people with a trans woman in it as “you guys” is passive aggressive for example.

jsomae, (edited )

It would be worse to treat trans women differently than other women.

Some people object to this usage of “you guys.” Some people also object to “y’all.” I know someone who dislikes “y’all” because it reminds them of confederacy and slavery.

If there is someone who expresses discomfort with certain words, it’s usually best to avoid those words in their presence.

By the way, nobody can be expected to know whether or not a woman they are talking to is transgender. “You guys” should not be avoided for the sake of trans women if it isn’t avoided for the sake of all women.

OurToothbrush,

Literally a trans woman. It is also rude to cis women but cis women don’t really worry about being misgendered the same way.

jsomae, (edited )

Literally a cis woman. I’ll avoid calling you you guys. My trans friends approve of its usage though. I don’t find its usage rude when applied to me. Please don’t try to play the identity card just to win an argument.

pivot_root, (edited )

I’m not invalidating your experiences, and you do you. I wouldn’t put it past shitty people to use it passive-aggressively as a way to misgender someone, and if you’ve experienced that, I am truly sorry you’ve had to deal with such shitheads.

At the same time, I know plenty of trans and cis women that don’t see it as rude or invalidating of their gender identity, and even use it themselves to refer to groups of people with mixed genders.

It’s a matter of boundaries and knowing one’s company. Some people are cool with it, and some people aren’t. It would be nice if everyone was using ungendered terms by default, but that’s going to take a while, unfortunately.

TheGalacticVoid,

Hoe isn’t really a gender-neutral term. It’s really rude to call someone a gardening tool.

myeyesburn,

I’m not your buddy, pal!

pivot_root,

I’m not your pal, fwend!

EdibleFriend,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Fucker.

n3m37h,

Oi, stop being a cunt - some Auzzie

EdibleFriend,
@EdibleFriend@lemmy.world avatar

Wait, I take back my suggestion. This is it.

n3m37h,

Take off ya hoser - some Canadian

Asafum,

Sup fuckers,

As per my previous email we should set a schedule for a meeting with the fuckers in the sales department.

ComradePorkRoll,

I find “y’all” works pretty well, so does “folks” or even better “Fellow Workers.”

kaffiene,

I’ve noticed people using these more but I hate them. It’s a cultural thing. I’m a New Zealander and y’all sound American redneck to me and folks just sounds weird.

hglman,

All it takes is using it for a bit, and it doesn’t.

kaffiene,

Nah. To me this is like suggesting to Americans that they start saying “good sirs” as a greeting. It grates

june,

Rich coming from someone who says ‘nor’ instead of ‘no’.

/s

Seriously, I love NZ and can’t wait to get back there. I’ve only met a few shitty kiwis and they were all here in the US lmao

BlueEther,
@BlueEther@no.lastname.nz avatar

good point, bro

olympicyes,

“Y’all” is Texas’ greatest cultural contribution IMO.

cmbabul,

Texas does not get to claim that 100%, Georgia, Alabama, the Carolinas, Tennessee, and Mississippi own a good bit of that

lickmygiggle,

I typically go with something like, “howdy, folks”.

KingThrillgore,
@KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml avatar

Comrade.

☭

No_Ones_Slick_Like_Gaston,

Our tovarich

mutter9355,

Carbon-based life forms

n0m4n,

Meat bags

Regnissik,

I mean buddy is already gender neutral.

Underwaterbob,

So is “guys” as far as I’m concerned.

RizzRustbolt,

“Dude” is the definitive gender neutral term.

Alice,

Once a trans woman told me that “buddy” is gendered, but I didn’t— still don’t— understand that. But recently a customer called me buddy, then when he heard my voice he apologized and called me ma’am. So I don’t know anymore.

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