@peterdutoit it remains the case that the majority of people have no idea whatsoever just HOW bad things are. They are aware and concerned and say: “oh yeah, climate change. So good you are working on this. My next car will be electric. Etc”. But they are not alarmed, not panicking, planning everything else as normal. I feel I am right back with Greta when she said: “I want you to panic!” But it’s not happening. #ClimateDiary
@peterdutoit@pvonhellermannn
I can see the near time reaction coming: “You lot said the world would end at 1.5 and here we are at 1.6 and we’re all fine.”
Just been thinking about this: the immense tragedy if the timing of it all really turns out to be that the majority will finally realise when it really is too late. I mean, never too late of course to make things better, but when we really do reach tipping points etc. Living through all that will also be a “special kind of cognitive hell” for all those who have been trying to warn about it for years.
@pvonhellermannn@peterdutoit many of the most staunchly ‘climate scam’ replies I fielded were from people who had made football the key facet of their online identity. If we could help that community think differently it would be an amazing cultural force for positive change
@urlyman@peterdutoit 😄 that would be quite a feat! Having said all this, I am not actually sure whether convincing “everybody” is necessary. Maybe it is, social pressure and all. But to me the real problem is that those in charge, the top 1-2% running the world, are at most concerned, not alarmed. BECAUSE they are so privileged, and because of their interests. It really is a #TragedyOfTheNonCommons
Call me a cynic, but I think that majority finally realizing the effects of #ClimateChange would be an optimistic outcome. It would require a broad system-level understanding that cannot be taken for granted.
My fear is that the majority will never realize. They will only ask "why food is so expensive", "why gasoline is being rationed", "why there are so many immigrants", etc. without ever understanding the bigger picture, and being hoodwinked for votes.
@jackofalltrades
It was my experience over the past few months that people around me just don't want to talk about the subject. I feel like most people agree that something is changing for the worse but are so scared to actually look at the consequences and required changes, that they act as if nothing was happening.
Marketing then comes in and allows people to buy themselves a good conscience by buying an e-car.
@jackofalltrades
I think most people will never make the connection between food price and climate change because they are too scared to.
Some people in my life will need a lot of reassuring to feel comfortable having a concrete look at the topic, others will need to be shocked.
First time I'm sharing this thought. Maybe I'm totally wrong. Thank you for the interesting discussion. It makes me full of hope seeing others who try to help others! @pvonhellermannn@urlyman@peterdutoit
@jicka I feel what you experience. With all the horror and insanity in the world, repression is a means of coping. Even as a journalist, I often switch off the news because I can't stand it any more.
But in my experience, when storytelling is brought closer to everyday life and shows connections, people become aware again. Becoming active gives them the feeling that they are no longer passively at the mercy of others.
@jicka Sometimes waking people up is completely crazy. Example: the mustard emergency last year. There was no mustard for months (imagine French cuisine without!). People made a pilgrimage to Ger to get hold of mustard. Prices exploded there. Was it the war?
Then the media wrote about it: it was climate change. Canada was the big exporter of mustard seeds to us and they had heatwaves & droughts. In former times, France had its own mustard
@jicka fields but capitalism and monocultures ... You could read it in every newspaper, hear it in every radiostation: climate change had arrived at our tables!
Suddenly farmers in France cultivated mustard again. Of course, it was the money. But they are sensitised: we also have droughts and heatwaves.
The mustard emergency woke up more people than any statistics!
@NatureMC@jicka@jackofalltrades@pvonhellermannn@urlyman@peterdutoit Our region of Canada is where a large portion of the mustard consumed worldwide is grown. I can confirm that recent crops here have suffered yield losses from changing weather patterns. Oilseed crops such as mustard were hurt by excessive heat during flowering stages in the past three years running, but 2022 was exceptionally bad and prices went to historic highs.
@NatureMC@jicka@jackofalltrades@pvonhellermannn@urlyman@peterdutoit Regarding some of the C.C. impacts upon field crops, you know as I that it only takes a few weeks of extra heat and reduced precipitation to ruin a crop. The scale of the impact is determined by the scale of the area affected.
That's what happened in 2022, half of North America was affected by those short term high-heat/low precip. conditions. I'm certain we are on track for more of the same, soon.
@NatureMC@jicka@jackofalltrades@pvonhellermannn@urlyman@peterdutoit That image of the pastoral, local family farm of past generations is one that transnational agribusinesses love to paint of themselves, even though a core part of their business was swallowing those operations.
If we keep "calling on government to...", nothing will change. We know government has become a mechanism for distraction and delay by corporations and oligarchs. If we organise ourselves, using socio-political tools and strategies that are hard to capture/commodify, we can build a future starting now. This approach doesn't offer a direct solution to the worst systemic threats (e.g., successful regulation at the state or international level) , but it does offer an actually possible path forward which may well lead to systemic change more quickly than struggling against petrostates on the battlefield they choose and control (e.g. COP28). It is possible to do both - advocacy and activism seeking systemic change, and locally-led creation of eco-social adaptive communities.
I agree too! But local action has its own challenges. If you are interested, I wrote a paper about my/our experience here in #Eastbourne, after our #ClimateEmergency declaration in 2019 and our Carbon Neutral 2030 campaign
This was a very good read Pauline. Thank you for bringing your skills as anthropologist to illuminate this process.
I was surprised at how I've had so many similiar experiences to what you describe. The difficulty of working with more rigid structures like schools. The way that plans approved at the administration level get pushed back due to larger political and monetary funds. The dismissal from fellow citizens and lack of interest from "inward-looking" families (I like a lot that term! ).
@marews thank you so much! That’s really kind of you to say, and also interesting to hear how much this resonates with your own experiences. Quite a bit has happened in the two years sonce writing it, which makes me think about some things differently. Eg some school mums have set up a second hand uniform shop, which really thrives - they have achieved more than i ever did! Might write a little addendum at some point 😊
Here, many people wake up because many houses break (droughts/heavy rain on clay soil), in Sept. still 400 places had no tap water (drought), the summer was a catastrophe. Even farmers wake up. It's now the question how to organize/cooperate/help.
I see our “special kind of cognitive hell” as having to live in future fascist states, seeing the world burn not just from climate change, but also war over resources, and having to forget what we know for our own sanity.
@jackofalltrades On dark days I can see cynic dystopias as well but most of the time I'm hopeful.
IMHO, most people are not yet aware that the biggest danger of our time is the centralised social media platforms à la Musk and Zuckerberg (and the constant quoting in media). These super-rich climate polluters help fascist ideologies, disinformation (willful dumbing people) and #TESCREAL. But we need democracy to have a future. How to resist them? @pvonhellermannn@urlyman@peterdutoit
@peterdutoit And now I don’t know whether to feel happy or sad about this. I thought 2023 was already so bad, surely it would alarm people, but, as the Yale study shared by @AlaskaWx 2 days ago shows, it has had almost no impact on attitudes. But of course you are right - we ain’t seen nothing yet. This is all just the beginning. 2024 and thereafter will be so much worse 😓
@pvonhellermannn@peterdutoit@AlaskaWx then let's talk about what we would put in those conversations with those people who you describe who have no clue. Which bit do you reveal first, which are entry level impacts?
Well I have tried for four years. Even in my own household, even in my own family, my closest friends, colleagues. no real impact. They are concerned, but not alarmed.
But no doubt I have been going about it the wrong way. @kathhayhoe has lots of really good advice on how to have these conversations . As do others. Time to listen to it all again and give it yet another go, be more professional, strategic about it. But quite tired by now too.
Re my football comments in another branch of this thread: part of the problem I feel is that so much of the discourse is in the abstract when what is needed are practical changes that begin to dissolve the antipathy
@urlyman@pvonhellermannn@peterdutoit@AlaskaWx
Yes I've read some of @kathhayhoe work on this. More practical examples of what worked for particular groups would be so useful to help think of how to spark the next convo. I have family members on all levels of the chart (from antipathy to understanding). The world is just continuing in general, keep on keeping on, so it's hard to bring up / too grave for small talk situations. Or is it?
I have so many people around me that totally understand that there is troubling climate change. Then fly to the Canary Islands, Thailand, or the US for 1-2 weeks vacation. Every year.
@pvonhellermannn@peterdutoit Affirmative. I observe the same. It is by political omission, greenwashing, targeted misinformation etc., and it does work! Otherwise there would be something like a billion people downing tools, strike, put massive pressure on governments daily, and by then they might not have even dared to present the public absurdities like COP28.
This absurd theater catapulted the mafia style audaciousness of politicians off the scale, and even that people just swallow. 🤷
@pvonhellermannn Sorry but if you know panic attacks you know that people are unable to react and act in these moments. Panic and fear are the worst counsellor! To change something, I need serenity, but also guidance and help. Example: I have ZERO local transport and couldn't afford an electric bike (mountains, age, money) let alone an electric car. Politicians need to change! So I discuss it with the mayor but he doesn't want to change anything. People are often helpless! @peterdutoit
Yes. I know. We don’t want mass panic. I do come round to that always too. Serenity, gentle guidance, hope. Etc. I know. But those at top should feel enough alarm to act as if it is an emergency, like with
Covid, but they don’t. Anyway, note to self: must stop saying things about this topic on here as always the same circular conversation.
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