@sonny isn't VPN support a part of NetworkManager and the kernel, not GNOME? the indicators and toggles and other UI niceties are still important, and are part of GNOME, but everything from profile (.ovpn file) support to protocol implementation is upstream
@sonny the other items in the list are UI features, which are inseparable from the desktop environment. "VPN support" however implies the backend, which is not part of GNOME and which is anything but inseparable from GNOME
I like those features but I think the permission limits from your post are meant to talk only about flatpaks.
A few years ago I would call it somewhat misadvertisment since it would not apply to all apps unless they were flatpaks... Or I guess under selinux.
But in this day and age I think flatpaks are widespread enough you do can make such claim.
@sonny I haven’t used GNOME in a over decade, since switching to macOS, but it is looking really good. The team has been chipping away at a lot of issues, making a beautiful and solid offering, so congratulations to them on 45.
@sonny the only feature i've wanted was the screen capture tools. Now they are done 🤷 it's just more chasing OSx and windows, further degrading what a desktop should be for.
@lewiscowles1986 The features mentioned in this thread are absolutely very useful. How are they «degrading what a desktop should be for»? Or are you referring to how you view GNOME as a whole?
@bragefuglseth I was referring to the needless change to have web-search and other crap; but the constant changing of libraries for notifications, what provides sound, networking, etc are also frustrations.
The removal of simple scriptable addons, so users have to compile back-ported file-manager addons.
@bragefuglseth Anyways, I can see it's a harsh take for free software. My comment is more Gnome isn't gnome any more. It's something else wearing the skin, driving users down a very different path. It's their codebase, they can do what they want to, and I am very happy not having to code it all myself, and with the screenshot / recording tools.
@lewiscowles1986 GNOME has never had built-in web search (outside of the optional Epiphany search provider). GNOME hasn’t had desktop icons at all for a decade either. You might be confusing GNOME with Ubuntu in that regard, as Ubuntu has had a web search controversy and modifies GNOME to add desktop icons. GNOME has support for JavaScript-powered extensions, and they are here to stay :)
@lewiscowles1986 Regarding the tech stack changes: we’re currently in the middle of a huge generational shift in system libraries. The new systems are more focused on security, containerization, privacy, and ease of use, and when they are first in place, I’m confident they will stay for a long time.
@lewiscowles1986 That is a third party extension that does not come with Fedora, and I don’t think Ubuntu or Debian has it by default either. GNOME Shell has search functionality, but that is only for apps, settings and such. Apps can have search providers that provide results (e.g. GNOME Software has one), and they can be turned off on a per-app basis.
I setup my wireguard connections with wg-quick so Gnome was behaving kinda strange and buggy with them. Migrating them to NetworkManager with nmcli seems to have fixed it. There should be a bit better way to handle this tho. Either to auto import it to nm or to show you a notification of some sort or something. I didn't know I had to use nmcli until I tried adding new connection through Gnome and had an unrelated problem I Googled and stumbled upon a solution for an older one
@sonny
🥥 You've piqued my curiosity, Sonny.
Will these #Privacy benefits being built into #Ubuntu carry over into #Kubuntu? Or, as in my case, #KDEsktop overlaid on Ubuntu? 🥥
@sonny
🥥 Fair enough, Sonny.
But if you do run into Mr KDE at the golf course, please tell him your friend Phil wants him to be as concerned about #Privacy as the excellent people at #Ubuntu are.
Thank YOU. 🥥
@sonny GNOME first of all needs to kick out Google from its "Advisory Board", if GNOME wants any credibility regarding privacy issues. https://wiki.gnome.org/AdvisoryBoard
Having Google there looks really, really bad. It makes me sick thinking about the kind of "advice" Google can provide.
How does GNOME leadership not see how inappropriate that is?
@bragefuglseth oh I understand that, the advisory board only provide "advice".
But why would GNOME want advice from Google? It's like the sheep getting advice from the lion on how to stay safe.
Even if we assume that there is no real influence (like lobbyists have to influence over political decisions?) it makes GNOME look ridiculous especially when privacy issues are discussed. Zero credibility.
Do I need to explain why it looks bad for GNOME to be associated with Google?
@eliasr@sonny as a member of the advisory board, I can share: Google hasn’t sent a representative for years, and even when they have, I believe it was more in the context of them having their own Gubuntu or whatever that Linux-using Googlers use internally.
I actually wish we had better dialog with folks at Google because we frequently hit issues with users who expect Google services to work with GNOME, and it is notoriously hard to actually talk to a human at Google.
@eliasr@sonny so, if Google wants to keep writing a zero-strings-attached check because they use GNOME internally, you are asking us to take away someone’s salary because someone who doesn’t understand how the Advisory Board actually works thinks it takes away 100% of the credibility of a non-profit with decades of exceptional transparency and a record of active privacy protection.
Can you replace that spot on the Advisory Board with one or more organizations that can help fund GNOME?
For Google, it is clearly a good deal: very small amount of money (for Google with hundreds of billions of dollars in yearly revenue, money which they make by their aggressively privacy-invading business) buys Google the appearence of being a friend to privacy and freedom. But Google is in reality a very dangerous company that is very bad for privacy and freedom. You should not be helping Google in that way.
I am asking you/GNOME to take a stand on principle.
@eliasr@sonny I don’t think it’s helpful to demonize a completely community-led project that has done incredible things for software freedom and privacy because you don’t want them to be funded in tiny part by a company you have demonized, but you do you.
@cassidy look, I appreciate you taking the time to answer me here, and I'm sorry if I have expressed myself too bluntly.
I like GNOME, that is also why I am so sad to see GNOME being associated with Google.
My main point is that when you say you care about privacy, and at the same time your advisor is Google, then there is a strong dissonance there. I think if you ask other people who care about privacy they till agree with me here: Google is not a good partner in that regard.
@sonny Ui, very cool! :blobcatuwu:
Tho I guess I sadly can't use it, since Framework laptops do their keyboard backlight entirely in firmware as far as I know. :suisei_sad:
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