This is a bit long, and I've talked about this a lot lately, but it's something I'm thinking about a lot in the wake of so much hatred of female Healthcare. When my female troubles got bad enough that I finally talked to my doctor about it, he referred me to a gynecologist. I had already had several ultrasounds and an MRI at this point, and she had put me on some oral contraceptives for several months, (which made sick to my stomach no matter what I did) and had just done another ultrasound. She greeted me with "Well, you're really messed up inside, Honey.", which already had me pretty stressed out. Then told me I would probably need surgery to figure out exactly what was going on. She then asked me if I wanted children, and I said No. I had taken my husband with me to the appointment for moral support, and she glanced over at him, and then talked to me for 5 minutes about how many women my age could still have children, and I could definitely consider it, and that they would do everything they could to make sure I could stay viable. They could freeze my eggs if I had to do a hysterectomy, just on and on. She probably asked me directly 4-5 if I was sure I didn't want kids. Finally, I said, "Ma'am, my husband got a vasectomy over a decade ago, we are absolutely sure we don't want kids." After hubs had found me crying on the toliet, because my period was late again, he went to his doctor and said, "Hey doctor, I'm thinking about a vasectomy." The doctor gave him a pamphlet to read, and made him an appointment. The whole thing was done in a few weeks.
Anyhow, she finally referred me to a gynecological surgeon, and I was not looking forward to dealing with this again, and was just generally terrified of having surgery for the first time. I met with this woman and she was so efficient and practical. It is the longest doctor appointment I've ever had, since this surgery would be exploratory, she went over every possibility of what could happen when she was inside. She did a thorough exam, she went over all the scans that I had, and explained why she thought this needed done. Then she said she would like to put in a Mirena IUD during surgery. She said, "You're in pain half the month, and there's no reason for you to have a period if you don't want to have kids. You'll have some erratic bleeding for six months, but by a year most women have a very light or no period at all, there's no reason for you to needlessly suffer if you don't end up needing a hysterectomy."
It's interesting to me still, that one doctor was so focused on what my body could do, and another so focused on how I felt. I came out of the first appointment feeling scared and confused, and the second feeling heard and cared for. Feeling valued as a person and not a baby maker made the surgery much easier to go through, and the Mirena has been great btw. Women don't have to needlessly suffer.
@RickiTarr sigh.
First pregnancy, DVT and had to get on blood thinners.
Oh it will never happen again.
Second one, oh weird it happened again.
Informed my OB/GYN there wasn’t going to be a third one and I wanted my tubes tied ASAP.
Got the but you might change your mind lecture. Then the wait a year or two and see lecture.
Went home, husband called for an appointment, had a vasectomy a week later.
They’d have rather I risked dying than get my tubes tied.
@RickiTarr@CatDragon
I hear that, but people do change their mind sometimes.
My brother's 1st wife said she didn't want any more kids and demanded he have a vasectomy. 2 months later she sued for divorce, got married a year later and had.two more kids. My brother's 2nd wife wanted children and they spent well over $100K on a vasectomy reversal and in vitro fertilization procedures.
@Okanogen@CatDragon But here's the deal, this wasn't about me not wanting children, I was there because I was in chronic pain, it was a quality of life issue.
@RickiTarr I only work with people who have chronic medical issues and the fuckin stories I’ve heard. It’s only gotten worse with COVID and the corporatization of healthcare. Personally, I treat going to the doctor like going to Target. Purely transactional, and what do I need to say to get what I need. I expect zero actual caring. It’s sad but protective for me.
@RickiTarr I’m so glad this story has a happy ending because female denial is very real in the medical community.
I'm on my second or third Mirena and I know it's weird to be like "I love my IUD!" but it's true. I've barely had a period in 10+ years and I don’t notice it there aside from the random times when I’m like "Is it still there?" and check and am like "Yep, those are strings. Phew!"
I will say that it was very painful to have inserted the first time since I've never had children, so it's really great that your doctor was able to do that for you as part of your explorative surgical procedure. I’m so grateful you finally found a doctor who gave you the treatment you deserve.
@RickiTarr Thank you for sharing this; it is such an important subject, especially now when women are being given less and less control over their own bodies. We truly live in a sick culture when half the population has less control over their sexual lives than the other half!
@bobjmsn@RickiTarr
I remember asking for sterilization at age about 35-40, they refused. Several years later some drs invited me to a consult, looked like a junior surgeon needed practice (my conclusion) and they offered me an operation to remove gall bladder because I had complained 2 (!) years earlier of abdominal pain (which had not recurred).
I reminded them I had been refused the steriliz'n because of "risks" and declined. Still haven't needed the gall-bladder-ectomy (yrs & yrs later).
@bobjmsn@RickiTarr
They refused to consider any "risks" I might have taken by getting pregnant (which were elevated due to other factors), and which were why I asked for sterilization.
@RickiTarr I'm so glad you found a great doctor!! I wanted to get my tubes tied when I was young because knew I didn't want kids. No doctor would do it. It's infuriating that doctors don't listen to women. I really hoped this attitude would change now that abortion is illegal in so many places.
@Jennifer Yes, it's so weird, like our foster system is way over burdened, if you change your mind and want a kid you can still get one. Not being able to reproduce isn't the end of the world for a woman.
@Jennifer@RickiTarr I got my tubes tied at 30. I laid down my life's plan to the doctor and he said, "Well, it seem like you know what you want. I'll do it." Apparently I was lucky to find him.
@RickiTarr Reminds me of how many times I had to answer “yes, my husband agrees with my tubal ligation and ablation; three kids is enough for us”. I was about ready to tell him to suck it up and get a vasectomy if I hadn’t wanted the ablation for the extreme periods I had.
@RickiTarr it definitely is much worse in this field(female reproductive health), but honestly I’ve faced the first attitude a lot in other spheres of healthcare.
Some doctors just behave so entitled, view you as anything but a person. I’ve met doctors who didn’t show me my results and weren’t willing to tell me my diagnosis up to the point that I had to find ways to get my medical history to actually read wtf they wrote.
Most of the doctors have been dismissing my complaints most of my life (that one may have something to do with being female and therefore seen as a weak and whinny one, but not just that - idk if some of that is because being neurodivergent I somehow express things differently so they don’t see enough distress calls on my face). That is the reason why I have barely survived kidney issue at 19(“no, that pain can’t be a kidney, kidneys are situated higher, you silly kid”). That is the reason why I had to almost fight to stay at maternity ward when I was in labor(“no, you can’t be in labor, you’re not screaming in pain as that other woman over there”). That is the reason why I was diagnosed with valve insufficiency and asthma only after four decades(“those faints must be panic attacks. Or you’re just being dramatic and seeking attention”).
On the other hand, there always are those who respect you, who tell you everything, explain details, ask you about your comfort and your goals. There are very few of those, unfortunately, but they are the reason I didn’t completely lose my trust in doctors(which I’ve been on the verge of several times)
@RickiTarr I've had an issue with my left hip since the fall of 2018 - significant ache, sometimes enough pain that my left leg fails in order to relieve it, interferes with my sleep, limits activity almost fully. I used to be a hiker that could keep up with or lead 'kids' 20 years younger than me, but I had to give it up. I've had doctors not believe me, roll their eyes at me, tell me it's not bad enough for surgery so I need to just wait for it to get worse so my insurance would cover it, be unwilling to touch me in places in order to diagnose or treat even though I saw them do what I was asking for on a male patient, have not bothered to change the treatment plan when I told them the current plan was adding pain to my left knee, etc.
I'm coming up on six years of limited mobility and still don't have an answer . . . though, I might be on to something. But do I have it in me to take on the mental and emotional load to go fight for a doctor to believe me?
That's a really good question. 😔
This fall there may be room on my plate to fight this fight . . .
@JulieB@RickiTarr I have a very similar story with my knee. After 10 years of pain (and not being listened to) I finally got a grudging referral for PT, which provided more relief than any orthopedist offered. I came away concluding most orthopedists suck, especially at treating middle aged women, and most specialists are incapable of viewing anything not through the lens of their own specialty.
@sarahconner@RickiTarr Exactly. They look at me, now after six years of not enough activity and decide things about me, when really I'm an athlete. I don't look like one so they assume I am not. And they have no idea what I've lost. 😔
@JulieB@sarahconner Absolutely no one should be making decisions about your health and lifestyle by just looking at your body, we have medical tests for a reason, there are questions you ask a patient for a reason. I've seen so many dangerous assumptions made.
@JulieB It is insane to me that they would say, Ehh it's fine if you're disabled, even though we could feasibly fix that and give you better quality of life, because you aren't disabled enough
@RickiTarr I will always love the gynaecologist who said "It all looks fine, but if it hurts that much we must fix it." Previous ones had said only the first part. This one reconstructed my perineum.
@GreenRoc I spent years convinced that I must have a low pain threshold, because I felt so debilitated, maybe I was just being whiney. It was very validating to hear that there was a real thing wrong with me, as strange as that sounds. For someone to say, Wow, you must be in a lot of pain, was huge
@RickiTarr
Sharing my experience which definitely is not as bad as yours.
Women's health care is so bad and women doctors barely improved it. I was done at menopause at 40 and never once had a conversation about menopause. I had all female Drs and at a certain point they determined I was seeking pills (please note I have taken a max of three pain pills in my life. I am saying 3 to cover history when I only remember 1.)
Then they took an fish test, told me menopause was complete and that was all my conversation about menopause.
With that said I used to follow an ob/gyn on the bird site named Jen Gunter. She insists that there is no biological need for a period if not trying to get pregnant.
She has a book called "The Vagina Bible"
I have two daughters. One we wanted to control her period for one month so we could enjoy watersports on a vacation. It was complicated for us to get bc and use it as we desired.
My second daughter has the arm implant and hasn't had a period in 5 years. Yah!
@RickiTarr It's my understanding that (a) it is now established medical knowledge that we can suppress the menstrual cycle altogether if we choose to, and (b) that so far at least, it appears there are no adverse consequences to doing so. So I don't see any rational option why we don't make it a readily available option.
(Note that I do not consider "controlling women's bodies" to be a RATIONAL reason.)
@RickiTarr I had a hysterectomy at 30, male doctor, and while he was quite caring, he seemed to keep expecting me to go hysterical on him about not having children. Same situation as yourself viz hub had gotten a vasectomy years earlier because we didn't want children. Doc kept pressing me to go to counseling even though I assured him that I had about as much 'maternal instinct' as an angry pit viper with a sore tail. It's wearying not to be heard just because you're female.
@RickiTarr So many women have gone through the "You'll change your mind."
I know I did not. For some reason, I was fortunate enough to find nobody pushed me on it. Actually the only people who did were acquaintances and my father. Once was enough for them to hear me tell them, "No, I don't think so."
In fact a lot of them ended up admiring me for it. Taking a stand like that is very hard for a woman. It goes against all of our 'training" and society.
@RickiTarr I’m so relieved to finally be old enough that having kids isn’t considered an issue by medical professionals anymore.
I wish I’d had the insurance I have now years ago, I would’ve had my tubes tied and gotten a uterine ablation while I was at it. Periods should be optional, and women’s pain should be taken seriously. :ablobcatbongoangry:
@RickiTarr Oh gosh, Ricki! That sounds like a terrifying and infuriating experience. It’s hard being a woman at times. Glad that there’s still people like the 2nd gynecologist exist. hug
@RickiTarr Ah. A clinician who trusts you. To know your own body. To know your own life. To make and own your own choices about your own body. Hmm. To medically treat you like a competent adult with agency.
@RickiTarr Oh Ricki - I am so sorry you had to deal with not just the physical issues, but the worst of the medical industry.
I had a myomectomy fibroid tumors removed ) in my mid 30s. I wasn’t sure if I was ready to not have any more children. The doctor tried to talk me out of it and to go for a hysterectomy instead. he thought I was too old to have more children.
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@RickiTarr About 15 years later I did end up with a hysterectomy. The woman doctor who did the surgery told me that it took her over an hour just to get through the scar tissue on my uterus because the previous doctor had, in her words, butchered it. He made sure I couldn’t have more children.
We are at their mercy in our most vulnerable times and it is absolutely unacceptable the way that too many of us are treated.
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@RickiTarr Certainly in the past, when I was interacting with that male doctor, doctors were educated as a kind of priesthood and they were not to be questioned.
Most of my doctors now are my peers and all of them are women. I am comfortable with my own authority now and see them as consultants on my health team (that’s me, I am my health team 😉)
@RickiTarr I never wanted children. Years ago, I had a sterilization so I wouldn't have to take the pill or worry. The doctor who performed the operation asked me during the preliminary consultation: "And how many children do you have?" "None." He looked at me as if it was reprehensible to have a sterilization, even though I hadn't even reproduced yet. I found that judgmental & offensive. And he just looked at me and didn't try to persuade me!
BTW: Still the best decision of my life.
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