#ClimateDiary Saturday morning I was wondering whether people I know in real life even see these kinds of graphs. I decided to find out by sharing it in WhatsApp groups I am in (not all but was quite brave - included colleagues, family, etc) posting it with this message.
Entirely unscientific, badly worded etc, but I am so glad I did! I learned a number of interesting things:
In every group, 70-90 % of people had never seen this graph and do not normally see these graphs. 1/x
@pvonhellermannn I talked to one who works nearby today. She didn’t know more about climate dangers than that there’s some abstract risk.
It’s not just the current graph: many people just don’t know basics about global warming risks. They never had time to get informed proactively and the usual sources don’t provide that information.
2/x #ClimateDiary I do think most people, whilst aware of #ClimateChange in general, are actually pretty oblivious to what is going on at the moment, in the #Antarctic and elsewhere.
I just did a mini-one person survey and asked my family this question: where in the world are #FlashFloods in last few days - right now?
First person didn't know of any. Still awaiting answers from rest of family.
@CuriousMagpie@pvonhellermannn that sounds like a great idea. I’m currently thinking about how our community can take steps to prepare. The first thing is to get some other people on board!
"The Red Cross has opened three shelters for people displaced by the flooding: one in Highland Falls, New York; one in Reading, Pennsylvania; and one in Barre, Vermont."
Quite a few people, it turns out, did not really understand the graph or did not know what to make of it. Many, in fact - once a few people admitted it, many more said so, too.
In one group, people started digging, and found a lot of important additional data - which is usually missing, and which I left out completely too - #Graphs alone are useful but out of context can be not just confusing but misleading
I do think it is really important for all of us think much more about #Graphs - that we find ways to first of all make sure we ourselves properly understand what we share (and are able to be cautious and critical, too), and that we find ways for making graphs comprehensible for everyone. In one group, one person shared this - great #ClimateGraphArt ! #JillPelto
Many people said they were grateful that I had shared this, asked to share elsewhere, and it sparked a lot of discussion.
I have recently almost stopped sharing news, trying to engage new people - from this I learned that it is good to be brave and just do it, not too much, but from time to time, always trying to reach new groups, start new conversations. Not to stop with all that
Hi @pvonhellermannn,
Happy to read you've got a positive feedback from your friends and family.
Unfortunately I have made another experience: no response/ no reaction of any of my family or "friends"...just pure ignorance of all my notes I shared with them! Notes with simple facts, easy to understand and read...
it's very sad to feel this kind of ignorance about facts which really matter...
by the way, sharing other stuff, the response comes inmediately.
Have you made similar experiences?
@alex323 most of the time it is exactly like that for me. in my family especially. i did that follow up question about floods, only one sister even responded, noone else. Then someone posted birthday party pictures and lots of responses... so yes, usually very much the same. It is a #Taboo basically. That's why I try not to raise it too much, in fact had largely stopped. Just occasionally can't help myself..
In terms of rhetorical effect, there is a world of difference between telling people things or expressing opinions to them, and, as you did here, ask them a meta-question about whether they'd seen a thing, to gather information for yourself.
It's very striking to me how the discussion here, about graphs, about whether or not people talk with friends and family about climate change, completely misses how radically different what you did was than what most people trying to consciousness raise about climate change do.
@pvonhellermannn People do have difficulties 'reading' graphs but it doesn't help if they aren't properly described.
This one lacks horizontal axis labels: I assume it's showing within year variation. Labelling the months would help. This is also not mentioned in the title/subtitle.
I also suspect that showing percent variation from the overall mean on the vertical axis would be better than raw square kilometers: the way it's presented hides the within year variation we'd expect to see.
@pvonhellermannn I think this is great - and also suggests to me that when it is framed as a question and as asking for input, this makes it more open and people are more likely to engage and take it in.
@pvonhellermannn A lot of people don't understand graphs. Many avoid looking at them completely. I really like graphs, and I find it hard to imagine what they look like for someone else. I wonder if there's any advice on how to "translate" from from one way of presenting information to another?
@pvonhellermannn graphs aren't shocking visuals unless you already know what to look for. Spelling out the point in a few words is usually more impactful.
You can then add detail later, but the key point shouldn't be a technical figure.
Well yes. Strong feelings are less about the reflective aspects of our minds & more about the reactionary aspects.
People can learn to be more reflective of strong emotions, therefore, less reflexive. And in doing so, they are more in control of their emotions. Rather than strong emotions controlling them. For example, people can have strong emotions whilst playing contact sports. But, generally, regulate those emotions so as to maintain civilised behaviours.
@empiricism i do this stuff all the time. I have thought about #ClimateAction strategies and done what i can for the last 5 years oetry much non stop, so I am very familiar with the fearmongering doesn’t work argument, the psychology research behind it, etc etc etc . But my post wasn’t about this - i was simply talking about what people (nice, well-meaning, not climate change denial types, my friends and family) actually know
It was kinda hard to find information about the Climate Strike on Sep 15, 2023, but this looks to be the organization page. (Search gave me the wrong date & historical pages on previous years as top results).Not many actions in the US yet, but this is what is needed for real reform. (Hashtags for this follow) #EndFossilFuels#FastFairForever
@Brendanjones@pvonhellermannn I have only lived here for 3 years. I find Dutch people in general far less concerned with the daily realities of climate change and conservation than South Africans (previous country). e.g. Rubbish is religiously sorted, but single use plastic is widely and blithely used, especially balloons. (I hate balloons!)
@NatureMC all true. But it’s not just that graphs don’t work - it is that most people don’t even ever see them. I followed up with questions about current floods in one group - only two responses (husband, sister) but both were completely unaware too. You would have thought people swept away in cars would work emotionally but they do not see these images either- it is completely possible to be oblivious to what is going on right now, even if you are green, well-meaning etc
@pvonhellermannn Usually, when i show such stuff to my people i get comments like "Do not be so damn pessimistic" or "You should write something positive once in a while, this is only depressing" ... only a handful of my friends/family/contacts start to realize what is happening, and that is not enough by far. The rest is in denial, as with other crises.
@alto thank you for doing it! Yes, that js also what i meant: through the combination of MSM , social media and the ways people use both, it is entirely possible, and indeed the case, that the majority of people are not aware how much we are already right in middle of #climatecrisis, of things unravelling. But maybe that will change, and maybe i only feel this unravelling due to my own media bubble.. but the difference btw my world and that of those right nexf to me IRL is huge
@pvonhellermannn@alto FWIW, I've been the admin for a Western Alaska/Bering Strait Climate & Weather FB group for some years. Most of the people in the group live in the region. I post all kinds of regionally relevant graphics. With time series graphics, by clearly labeling graphics and explaining in plain language in the accompanying text, over time some folks have learned to interpret this style of info presentation. That said, spatial maps or annotated satellite images are more popular.
Most people don't have a reference for "square kilometers", that's why "football fields" or cities or other regions are used as comparison. Also, it's missing the readability things. Is that 200 000 or is it 20 000 000?
The scale also doesn't go to zero it goes into "less than normal" which I also don't have a reference for.
How is anyone supposed to know whether a 2 000 000 km^2 difference is big or normal or what?
I like that other chart with the sea surface temperature anomaly, because it has standard deviation. But using something like a standard deviation is an advanced concept. Most people don't get that far.
It's not something you can fix and it doesn't help the situation, and it doesn't excuse not knowing or not trying to know. But isn't it still kind of... inappropriate to expect that kind of knowledge?
@bmaxv Yes, you are right.
I have to confess, I did not look at the actual numbers myself. Just the pattern of the lines...
I am definitely not 100% #Graphliterate myself. I do look at many & try to read around them; and do understand that they can be manipulated and changed. But very aware of own limits, and appreciating more and more how incomprehensible they are to many other people. So yes, inappropriate to expext that kind of knowledge.
Nevertheless, everyone should know what's happening
@bmaxv
Both Cities and football fields have their issues.
Fields for playing which football?
When you say "London" do you mean the City or Greater London? And at which date
Metric is the international system of measurement. It doesn't need changing.
What we need is a visualization tool that can map the km2 around a point you are familiar with, and an accessible tool where you can convert the km2 to your favoured football field or city, or whatever works for your brain. @pvonhellermannn
@NatureMC@SeaMonster@bmaxv@pvonhellermannn That article still remains, to me, one of the best examples of excellent scientific communication and visualization that I've ever seen. Certainly on my top10. Whoever put in the time and effort to design and write that article should be prized.
@NatureMC
Thank you, that is excellent, but not what is needed (it's not a tool, and it does not contain any visual interpretation of data that uses a standard unit (eg kilometer).
It has to be a tool where the user can choose their own unit because of the football field problem. @bmaxv@pvonhellermannn
@pvonhellermannn Thank you. This is exactly the kind of question that is bothering me - how to spread more awareness outside our well informed Mastodon bubble?
continuing to think about WhatsApp groups as a strategy: maybe "accidentally" posting something really devastating in your School Mums group. You need to time it well and make it look genuine -ie like you meant to reply to someone else; then leave it and only 6 hours later: oops, sorry - drawing attention to it again... contemplating it!
@futureape there is a #ClimateDashboard! a very good one. i saw it here a while ago, but now can't remember how to find it again - @Ruth_Mottram, did you post it here?
At any rate - I don't think there is anywhere near the same public awareness of this as of the #Covid ones
@pvonhellermannn@Ruth_Mottram@micefearboggis there are some nice options there. Something feels missing, however. I’ve always thought the planet needed a marketing team. There’s an abundance of information that’s hard for the average person to grok. The data is begging for a design team to wrap this up in an elegant package for wide consumption. Artists can tell a story researchers can’t. Good example:
@pvonhellermannn@Ruth_Mottram@micefearboggis on that note, it’s interesting how that anomaly graph has gained traction and been passed around so frequently of late. There should be a common, widely referenced source for this data that taps into social media behavior. I think those climate timeline heat graphs people have been using as profile banners are a good example.
It's so great that you started this conversation, and that you got such a response. We all need to talk about #ClimateChange more. More newspaper articles would help start a conversation, but since the coverage is thin, we have to jumpstart ourselves.
Also, to a scientist, a graph is worth three thousand words 😃 but other people may respond more to a story, or, as you show, art.
@pvonhellermannn Thank you, Pauline. A few weeks ago, around the time that the smoke reached Europe, I mentioned the Canadian wildfires both to my Tai Chi teacher and to my next door neighbour. Neither of them had heard anything about the fires.
@pvonhellermannn I teach first year students about the ocean, the atmosphere, and climate. I am convinced that many people don't know how to read a graph. Next, there is the further problem of interpreting the meaning of a line or points on a grid into something that relates to their knowledge and experience. Measurement units are also widely misunderstood.
I mean I know we can't cover everything in the span of a new segment that gets 15-60 mins, but what's covered and what's not is crucial, since a lot of people only know what's in the news - for better or mostly worse...
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