@McPatrick@StillIRise1963
I disagree with the people who are doing no vote out of spite. I'll vote for Biden, fine. but I'm confused by people saying this will fight fascism. Is Biden currently doing much to fight state-level fascism? What's the actual plan because it seems like all he'll be good for is vetoing them (still good, still important). Some of the Biden fans don't seem to want to talk about that question.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell
Yeah for sure I would rather him be in there than Trump, I think we agree on that part. I just haven't seen him do all that much to fight fascism at the moment. states are still moving forward with banning books, revoking abortion rights, taking away trans rights. So I'm confused about what exactly he will do in 2025 besides veto fascist laws that congress gives him.
@GhostOnTheHalfShell@McPatrick@StillIRise1963
That's all I meant by 'what's the plan'? We need his veto, it's crucial. We also need some plan to stop gerrymandering, to offer abortion services to people in these states, to guarantee HRT access to trans people in these states. I want to see that sunshine but I'm not feeling the sense of urgency from Biden and federal level Dems that I think we need. he may not even have the Senate next time around so it's just the first small step to get him in there.
Our opponents are working national platforms at the local level. Progressives who are honestly concerned about what's going on must be attending meetings of local progressive organizations and local Democratic party. They must be writing letters to local papers. They need to be making local news.
@McPatrick@StillIRise1963 alright. If the rest of the world needs to understand the US political system because of It's impact, let's just say yanks would do well to understand some of the politics elsewhere, which would help them understand that Democrats are hopelessly conservative. And yes, plz vote, but no, Obama was a conservative. Also, the US also had various socialist movements throughout its history who were squashed, so it's not as if "it just so happens" there's no alternative.
Like you ppl don't even social democrats and they're considered married to capital while handing out some crumbs in the EU. I didn't except to have to do this on Mastodon, but do you realize the US overall is off the charts in terms of conservatism, no matter which party?
But the system was designed by an effective aristocracy and has stumbled—against massive pressure—towards some semblances of actual democracy over 2+ centuries. And is also captive to a ferocious and extremist capitalism, coupled with decades of willfully bad education.
@McPatrick@StillIRise1963 not duh. I keep stumbling across posts like this and it's low-key annoying. Systemic harm is evil too. Imperialism & colonialism is monstrous and inexcusable. The propaganda on US liberty with your poc population in prisons working for free is monstrous.
I can accept picking the worst of two evils or regular over batsh*it crazy evil but implying dems are flawed but necessary is kinda erasing a lot of people, who would still be in shitty positions even if all Reps disappeared overnight. It's OK to vote half seriously for Dems, but that's nothing mode than damage control, which is still important to do.
@McPatrick@StillIRise1963
In the US, if you want to apply pressure from the left, you run as or vote for a Democrat. Because we build our coalitions in advance. In multi-party systems, you don't always know who your elected representative will have to work with to establish a voting majority. It can get weird. FPTP has a lot of flaws, but at least it simplifies coalition building.
ALL electoral democracy systems have serious-to-severe dysfunctionality. It’s not the democracy side, it’s the dynamics and realities of election systems.
@McPatrick@StillIRise1963 The Democrats don’t have to be inadequate. There is a primary. There could be a candidate beside Biden in that primary. Maybe someone younger and more progressive.
Instead of conceding the future, we could perhaps work to make it better.
You write this on the very day that the late Sen. #Feinstein offered the ultimate proof of why there is such a thing as too old to run for office again.
@antares@McPatrick@StillIRise1963
Illness is not something that is the exclusive to the aged and it's a very immature person who falsely believes otherwise. Biden is NOT sick. Being aged isn't an illness.
Time to grow the eff up.
@accretionist@McPatrick@StillIRise1963 it sucks that we keep having to have this discussion every four years. Give me candidates without Senate Brain that I can vote FOR, who aren’t in the pockets of Big War and Big Oil and I won’t have to vote against anyone.
I recently figured out why this sort of "well, Biden/Obama/Clinton's not really that great" thinking drives me bonkers.
Yes, they're half a loaf (which is better than no loaf), but: people who talk this way among friends, acquaintances, or on social media are draining the urgency out of the moment.
When you wake up on Tues. morning w/no energy, it's too easy to remember all these convos and just... not bother voting.
@tarheel@accretionist@YellowPup@McPatrick@StillIRise1963 we have the same problem in Canada. Sure Trudeau is a doofus neoliberal but he’s not going to make it harder for my kids to live. Making my kids illegal is literally in the policy platform of the opposition party that is leading in the polls. I won’t forgive any progressive party if they tank this government. (Looking at you, NDP)
Same here. That's why here in the USA I still volunteer, donate and do what I can to ensure whatever Democrat is running wins.
They are the party that is willing to work with what too many people have learned to call the "far left" thanks to conservative media's framing of us. All we want is for our kids to exist legally equal to everyone else.
@tarheel@accretionist@McPatrick@StillIRise1963 At a certain point Democrats have to have the courage to ask more from the party than a slower slide into fascism. That point is not during a presidential election, of course, but worth keeping in mind.
@StillIRise1963@tarheel@accretionist@McPatrick when Biden was a candidate he said he wouldn’t run for re-election, but it was clear once he was elected that he was going to chance surviving for two terms. We’re all being massively had with the blackmail of existence.
@accretionist@YakyuNightOwl@biplanepilot@StillIRise1963@Frances_Larina@McPatrick so disappointing. There was some momentum starting to gather behind West on the Green ticket, the tiniest bit of pressure was being applied to the duocracy, which was quite nice... And then he took a maxed out donation from Harlan Crow and announced he's an Indie now 😒
It's like he's trying his hand at the Sinema playbook but trying too hard. I lost all interest in his campaign, glad I didn't donate.
@RebelGeek99 Green or any other would-be third party still don't stand a chance as long as the first-past-the-post voting system is used. It's actually quite specific to the United States compared to European democracies and this explains why the latter need to form shifting coalitions to govern as more than two parties can actually have political weight at the national level.
@accretionist@YakyuNightOwl@biplanepilot@StillIRise1963@Frances_Larina@McPatrick that's about where I was with electoral politics like 12 years ago lol... Since then, my focus has shifted almost entirely to local elections. The impact of those tends to be more immediate, and even a small uptick in voter turnout can significantly affect city council, schoolboard, utility board, and mayoral races. I get angry whenever I think about the Electoral College. Dems need to abolish that STAT.
@accretionist@YakyuNightOwl@biplanepilot@StillIRise1963@Frances_Larina@McPatrick it's a slippery slope when you have the likes of the Manchinema Caucus... MGP from WA-3 won on a Bernie-Lite platform against a MAGA in 2022, only to consistently vote with R's on the big ticket items while securing favorable terms for Pelosi PAC affiliated corporatists and lobbyists. Prog voters here are disgusted, but she behaved with indifference because the spectre of MAGA wards off better candidates 🤷🏻♂️
1/ The Democrats drive me crazy. They're terrible at forming up coalitions. They don't understand their own constituencies. Their leadership is fat and lazy and still resting on their laurels about Civil Rights.
In the words of Janet Jackson: what have you done for me lately?
Half of them don't even complete their ballots. The GOP, they know their candidates, down to school boards.
2/2 Ranked voting is common sense. My point is somewhat different: how do Democrats build effective coalitions and win?
Democrats need to stop with the single-issue tub thumping. We need better internal politics.
Current DCCC and DNC leadership seems to be enriching the same old political consultants with their shiny-ass slacks and suits that went out in the Reagan administration.
Well, no. The GOP is pushing a fear sell. Doesn't matter what it is, four decades ago, it was Scary Catholics and Jews, three decades ago it was Scary Negroes, a decade ago it was Scary Mexicans -
They're always doing this.It's a fear sell. Buy our deodorant or your boyfriend will think you stink.
All these different agendas need to be seen as part of a whole.
Please don't vote green; they say all the correct inclusive & affirming words, but they also have a strong record of TERF/GC candidates and officials. Also they've repeatedly had to dissociate from state parties that are either too transphobic or choose to dissociate from state parties that endorse candidates who are stronger on trans issues.
In other words, they are highly tolerant of internal anti-trans views and actions up until some very visible line.
Please understand that this is what is on the ballot. Democracy vs. Fascism.
You really do not want to live in a fascist Trump autocracy. It would be absolutely horrible. This isn't normal times at all. It's not time to make a political point. If Biden doesn't win, you won't get to vote again. Think Russia, but even crazier. That's what we will have here. We really do not want that.
Just because things are bad, doesn't mean they can't get worse, much worse. History is full of examples, and it's not the privileged white people who have the most to fear. You definitely do not want to be a member of a marginalized community in a fascist autocracy.
Indeed, the clock is ticking. Your anger with the current system and the frustration with lack of progress under this administration is entirely justified. It sucks that these are the choices, but that's the reality. As you say, we need to have compassion, learn and work on politicians to be better. But none of that can happen if we elect an authoritarian monster and end democracy. If we do, it will get much much worse.
Don't really know how to respond. Double fucked is, in fact, a lot worse, and it will be much worse than that if we chuck out democracy. Wish that it were otherwise, but the rise of fascism in the Republican party has narrowed the options and made other progressive progress infinitely more difficult. Don't believe that the answer is to burn it all down, but can appreciate your feelings of powerlessness.
It's not about "powerlessness". Quite the opposite.
We, the marginalized, have ALL the power right now. We can vote to preserve your privilege, or we can abstain, damning you to live like we do.
You will meet our demands or you will be fucked right alongside us.
That's power. That's the only power we've ever had, and this is THE time where it means the most.
Hundreds of millions of us in a dozen Western nations have come together to make our demands, and we stand united in enforcing the consequences if the privileged refuse those demands.
This is politics, my guy. And while you fight only to preserve your privilege, we're fighting for our SURVIVAL.
Dead is dead. It doesn't make a fucking difference if the one who murders us is red or blue.
Almost everyone I care about has been killed by one side or the other...most of them by the so-called "benevolent" centrists.
So no, you WILL accede to our demands or you WILL join us in hell. And given that we have nothing left to lose, I promise you we're okay with either outcome.
If we can't have what it takes for our people to survive then you can be damned sure we're going to avenge them.
@StillIRise1963 I fully understand your sentiments, and wish your call to vote for one party over the other actually did mean substantial change. It doesn't. Both parties (the "Uniparty") are supporting insane wars that could have been avoided through diplomacy, both are helping the rich get richer on the backs of increasingly impoverished workers, both are in favour of the surveillance state. Neither party focuses on fundamental issues like universal health care, free education etc etc.
@StillIRise1963 "Lesser of 2 evils" is no longer a valid strategy. We have seen that both parties merely shift further toward the "evil" side of governance over time. A massive system change is needed, not more fiddling at the margins as both Dems and GOP do. As a Black person, you should know that better than anyone.
@KarunaX Don't fucking say OBVIOUS SHIT to me and say I should know it. I FUCKING DO. Did you just learn it in school. Go to class and learn some more OBVIOUS SHIT. Try a 900 class.
the massacre of the Branch Davidian sect happened under the clinton administration.
our current VP destroyed thousands of black families in california by pioneering the stacking of tremendous amounts of charges in order to get a plea-bargain agreement on a few of them - resulting in overly-long sentences.
clinton also was in on the destruction of yugoslavia by NATO.
voting for democrats is very little different from voting fascist.
@StillIRise1963 I should apologise if this came over too aggressively. But imagine how it might feel if 60% of the posts on your timeline assumed you lived in Belgium?
@StillIRise1963 Hm, as a non-american, i wonder about your two-party "democracy" and how hard it would be for a third party to win.
Don't get me wrong, we have more than two parties here that can win, but they are all the same. And open violations of our constitution.
But it seems extreme in the usa, since the reps have gone full neonazi and anti-human, what would hold the dems back from just doing "a little better than reps", i.e. very bad?
It never came up in any media for me, is there any effort in the usa to support a third party?
@admitsWrongIfProven@StillIRise1963 Major change in the US party system of the last century or more is brought about not by creating new political parties, but rather by taking over one of the existing parties. For the republicans, this involves getting your candidate into the presidency, as their party rules establish that a Republican president is also the head of the party.
During my 45 years of voting, Republican Party has been take over by the Moral Majority, the Tea Party, and the Trumpists (MAGAts). Over the same time period, the Democratic Party has been taken over by a populist southern strategy, under Jimmy Carter, and the neoliberal business folks under Clinton through Obama. Biden is interesting, as he would normally have been expected to be a continuation of Obama’s neoliberal approach, but his actual achievements in getting things through Congress have combined neoliberal support of businesses with expansion of public works and public services funding.
And these are relatively minor compared to some of the shifts and outright reversals in the politics of the two parties in the 19th century.
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