PieterPeach, to fediverse
@PieterPeach@mastodon.social avatar

The question is not Mastodon vs Threads vs Bluesky, it’s vs .

If we continue to think in terms of social media platforms instead of protocols we’ll end up back at square one in enclosed communities with locked in social graphs at the whim of singular, fickle entities driven by profit or ideology.

rolle, (edited ) to bluesky
@rolle@mementomori.social avatar

For all the people who say ”I had to select a server, it was so complicated to sign up to Mastodon. On Bluesky it was easy” - how are these two different logic-wise? I mean what the hell?

nekron,

@stux @rolle

Yea.. like I can read your toots here right now in the public. And bc of that there is less difference to if you think about it, but regarding the accessing them by firehose endpoint allows much more like building your own feed (algorithm) that extracts network-wide skeets for you... combine this with AI and you can read the things you're interested in... your own personal bubble. This and the global FTS is a killer feature for me over .

jens, to bluesky
@jens@coma.social avatar

Hej @MonaApp, would you also consider creating a native (as in using the directly) app once ended its invite only beta phase?

Asking for a friend.

slashscreen, to mastodon
@slashscreen@mastodon.de avatar

Question about webfinger: if I give it an actor @foo, it's going to query directly to bar.social, right? There's no way to somehow, register a proxy for something? I guess that would be a security risk, no?

My goal is to try to figure out whether I can make some kind of bridge for ActivityPub and ATProto, without touching either codepase directly, since making either one be able to talk to the other is a political issue right now. While code-wise I think it's possible to translate between them, at least with follows, likes, and posts, the only way I can think for people to actually interact with the other would be to have the bridge be itself a server, so you would follow a bsky account by following @username@bridge.net which would then forward to @username which is super cumbersome

dada, to mastodon French
@dada@diaspodon.fr avatar

Prise en main de Bluesky : un dérivé de Twitter décentralisé, qui dépasse le million d’utilisateurs - https://www.nextinpact.com/article/72421/prise-en-main-bluesky-derive-twitter-decentralise-qui-depasse-million-dutilisateurs

> Le 12 septembre, le dérivé de Twitter construit sur un protocole décentralisé a annoncé avoir atteint le million d’utilisateurs. Afin de voir exactement ce que propose Bluesky, nous l’avons testé via son application mobile.

Sur les commentaires qui sont rigolos. Clochers, guerre, toussa toussa.

youronlyone, to Autism
@youronlyone@c.im avatar

So, this is what's happening to me:

It describes it as:
“Autistic burnout is a syndrome conceptualized as resulting from chronic life stress and a mismatch of expectations and abilities without adequate supports. It is characterized by pervasive, long-term (typically 3+ months) exhaustion, loss of function, and reduced tolerance to stimulus.” ~Raymaker et al, 2020

Typically the Autistic person in question will still have multiple demands in their life that require cognitive resources, despite having little to no resources left to give. Life goes on, as they say.

Read the rest here: https://emergentdivergence.com/2023/05/12/creating-autistic-suffering-what-is-atypical-burnout/


Hat tip to: @emergentdivergence.bsky.social from the network.

What do you think? Anyone else?

@youronlyone

@actuallyautistic @actuallyautistics @autistics

mackuba, to bluesky
@mackuba@martianbase.net avatar

I've been tracking how the number of posts per day on is going - looks like it's now at about ~400k posts per day from 70-75k users, which is around 4-5x what it was when I started recording data 2 months ago 📈

(*) I think it's mostly furries though because my people aren't posting much 🙃

Chart "unique users posting": starts below 20k, jumps to about 70k, then down to 40k, and up to 70k level again since late July. Similar shape to posts chart, but ends up higher at the end.

Setok, to threads
@Setok@attractive.space avatar

: if follows through with support by using , and especially if and join the party, will be all but dead. AP will be the standard for social online, regardless of any benefits of AT. will effectively die with it, unless they switch to AP (unlikely as then they’d just be one instance amongst many). Threads joining the Fediverse would hurt BlueSky (and to some degree ) a lot more than it would hurt .

FeralRobots, to fediverse
@FeralRobots@mastodon.social avatar

We don't usually think of it this way, but it's true: does entrust identity to the server, not the the user. There were technical reasons for this at the time, & those continue, but it remains a fact which uncomfortably highlight how non-simple these questions are.

, for example, THEORETICALLY places identity in the hands of users - but in practical terms, it's still in BlueSky's hands.

& NONE of these have truly portable identity.
@ricmac]

ricmac, to threads
@ricmac@mastodon.social avatar

In this post I explain why chose as its open standard to support (instead of, say, Bluesky's protocol or Tim Berners-Lee's Solid). Also I look at some of the challenges Meta will face as it tries to join the fediverse. https://thenewstack.io/threads-adopting-activitypub-makes-sense-but-wont-be-easy/

jens,
@jens@coma.social avatar

@ricmac "There’s no way Meta would’ve wanted to join the AT Protocol or Solid, because in both cases they would potentially be handing over control of identity and at least some data to their users."

To me, this translates into "Meta chose over the or because it wants less freedom (as in independence/autonomy) for ist users"?

anianimalsmoe, (edited ) to bluesky
@anianimalsmoe@sakurajima.moe avatar

So I'm looking at playing with the data on 's data fire-hose. They claim to have crossed 1 million app downloads, and supposedly have 290k users.

I was plugged in to the matrix for 48 hours now, and have seen interactions from 69083 unique users. Not bad, that's quite a good number of . I see activity from about 500-2000 users in five minute chunks, but on average it's somewhere below 1000.

On the code end. I've filtered out the language of each post, and it's an array for some reason. :blobfoxthink:
Sometimes it's

  • undefined (it still has text, so it's not a picture-only post)
  • ["en"] for a user who only ever posted in Japanese. Is it a default?
  • Multiple languages at once. So is it a per-user parameter instead of a per-post parameter?
  • Angika, com, ckb, papafish, mai, ... and other non-ISO 639-1 codes. Are they not sanitizing this value at all? I would expect them to at least only allow correct codes, and null-out wrong ones. Is that why there are undefined language labels?

They could run some form of simple language detection code for this, but it's probably too computationally expensive. :ablobfoxhyperthinking:

I've found 1000+ users with posts about and and followed them. My feed is significantly improved. Because I used their class to programmatically follow them, I have accidentally followed myself, and can't unfollow me. .

I have found my people :fox_x3: , and managed to find their posts. But oof, the engagement of the anime/manga community on Bluesky is ridiculously low compared to other types of posts (lewds, begging, cats). They'd be lucky to get >10 likes/reposts/quote-posts. There were 2212 posts and 2122 engagements. The top posts >12 likes are mostly lewds of anime girls.

The reason for this, to me, is simple, because of the way BlueSky's DIY non- works, there's no proper Anime Feed. :blobfoxthinkanime: The list of discoverable feeds in-app or in-website literally stops at the top fifty. The API also does not support querying more.

So I have taken it upon myself to work on it. . :meowcrying:

majorlinux, to bluesky
@majorlinux@toot.majorshouse.com avatar

Why not just ask for people to just buying via donations?

But, I guess this isn't a bad alternative.

Bluesky begins offering custom domains in its bid to remain ad-free | Engadget https://www.engadget.com/bluesky-begins-offering-custom-domains-in-its-bid-to-remain-ad-free-071922355.html?src=rss

randulo, to bluesky
@randulo@mastodon.social avatar

So when is "decentralized", will you have to choose a server?

cragsand, (edited )

@randulo From my understanding of the AT-protocol that is the idea. It seems to work similarly to ActivityPub with some design differences and a lot of missing features not implemented yet.

One thing that has me skeptical is how they aren't testing multiple servers or even distributing alpha/beta versions of server software for people to self-host to try and find bugs. If the project is intended to be open source, it doesn't really follow in that spirit.
(CORRECTION: There is a sandbox open source version that anyone can try from their GitHub.)

The docs here go into more technical stuff about it
https://atproto.com/specs/atp

jerry, to random

I just read another news article about why mastodon didn’t make it and is dying. It’s very sad to hear and probably explains why I have to keep adding more server capacity to handle all the people quitting mastodon.

o76923,

@jerry

Mastodon is failing so hard that Meta/Facebook/Instagram's new Threads app is designed to be compatible with instead of .

joelmartinez, to fediverse

I wonder if there will ever be any services or clients with both and support, and if so what would that look like 🤔

mikeblake,

@joelmartinez is just right? Or there are other implementations? I think there's still some question of whether blue sky even complies with it yet. I saw some saying it might happen by the end of the summer.

jonny, to bluesky
@jonny@social.coop avatar

From a preliminary ~12h sample of / , a small number of accounts receive most interactions. This is an obvious byproduct of the way the default algorithmic feed prioritizes posts.

  • 5% of accounts received 72% of likes, 1% of accounts received 41%
  • The top 5% of accounts make 48% of posts
  • 37% of accounts receive no interaction
  • The median account received 1 like.

Just a quick, incomplete look, but ya looks like an engagement farm

jonny, to random
@jonny@neuromatch.social avatar

alright, I think it's time to translate the spec language to RDF and start on the first leg of getting this p2p thing off the ground and mirror all the neurophysiology archives. got a big stack of hard drives and bandwidth going to waste

jonny,
@jonny@neuromatch.social avatar

the next stage is to get to full read/write interop where the servers can basically behave transparently like peers. the tricky part is how to make a spec for interacting with other servers that might use some complex mixture of auth methods and protocols without requiring an extremely complex client.

I had been trying to design something like 's lexicons for this, and seeing their implementation makes me understand just how much of a mess you can make that way - theirs is a difficult to understand blend of portable specs with code (yes you can spec that you can request posts from a server, but how do you actually implement the server logic without making the lexicon superfluous).

Their lexicon framework seems super slapped together though and basically ignored all prior art, like the rest of the protocol, so I have some ideas about how to make that actually work.

jonny,
@jonny@neuromatch.social avatar

side note - I think it's super funny that runs on IPLD CIDs but they didn't want to just use IPFS or some other p2p technology that actually makes sense to use there because, uh, reasons.

jonny, to random
@jonny@social.coop avatar

alright I'm going to boot up one of these graph indexers and start sampling the firehose. even doing that feels like an invasion of privacy but I gotta know what ya can do with that

jonny, to bluesky
@jonny@social.coop avatar

/ commenter suggests reinventing the state and debtors prisons as a moderation model

If we assume that a mean of 20 seconds is needed per report under option 2A (human moderation), then the cost of moderation is around eleven cents per report. Given the premise that the "bad actor" should bear the costs, then reports determined to be false should be borne by the reporter (analogous to a determination of frivolous litigation), while reports determined to be true still need to be borne. We have two options: 2O1: Immediately charging the party whose post was determined to be abusive 2O2: Collecting the fee spread out among other "court costs" (e.g. tacking it onto appeals fees, frivolous report charges, etc, as a general pool of funding) While option 2O1 has some arguments toward fairness, it would also require that everyone have a payment means set up just to be able to post on the site, which may discourage participation. Hence, I would tend to favour 2O2, a general pool funded by general "court fees". The "bad actor" here is still being punished in that their post is being flagged, and many can be expected to appeal. However, we can introduce a third option: 2O3: People determined to be habitual bad actors (an unusually high percentage of their posts being affirmed by moderation as being violations) must bear the costs immediately, and must thus have a payment method installed just to be able to post, while the vast majority of users do not.
The Court of Appeals This gives users - either those who were determined to have filed a frivolous report, or those who were determined to have committed a violation with their post, a chance to appeal the decision. To file, they must prepay the full court costs, plus pay into the general pool. If they win, they're reimbursed, and the loser must pay the court costs. If the defendant is not willing to risk the cost of losing on their appeal, they can cede the case to the appellant, the appellant's money is returned to them, and the appeal is decided in their favour. If multiple people filed a report, they all split the risk equally. Since this is designed to be a swift, cheap human decision, one might propose a structure such as 5 randomly-selected jury members, each expected to spend an average of 90 seconds reading over the case, making a decision, and writing a quick one-sentence justification. Since jurors - like anyone involved in the moderation process - should expect to be paid for their work (with the option to decline their pay and have it donated to Bluesky's operation costs if they want!), an appeals trial should be expected to cost $2,20 (plus any extra for the general pool). The winning party should be reimbursed for all their costs (if any) up to that point.

jonny, to bluesky
@jonny@social.coop avatar

I'm probably talking to a brick wall, but I want the / devs to have to publicly answer for their design decisions that make the network either just another de-facto centralized attention market or a sprawling vector of abuse.

https://github.com/bluesky-social/proposals/issues/19

Labels being unblockable and with infrastructural support for mass dissemination and subscription makes them a dramatically more dangerous vector for abuse than in or out of protocol lists. There is no way to moderate your way out of that either - you can't add additional labels to accounts that use them for abuse because identity is so cheap, and anyone could be subscribing to a particular set of labels (eg. a person in targeted group B may want to subscribe to the labels to see how they are being targeted). The same concerns make it difficult to see how labels would meaningfully deter or prevent other kinds of abuse, since no matter how many you compose together, the legitimate abuse labelers will always be in an algorithmic arms race at best, and again we see how well that works in other social networks.
Yes, part of what I'm getting at here is that if everything being public and it being impossible to have meaningful blocking and privacy features is indeed an active decision, rather than a byproduct of the protocol design, then the potential for abuse is substantial - even network breaking - and will manifest in different ways with each additional feature while making other desirable features hard or impossible to implement without effectively centralizing the system ( see ) So while I get where the idea of compostable moderation is coming from, this isn't a criticism of that so much as it's particular (sketch of) implementation against the backdrop of ATproto. There is still time to fix these problems while the federation spec is still in draft, but it will require significantly rethinking it, unless I'm missing something major, which is possible.

atomicpoet, to bluesky

Federation with (via ) is getting closer.

The sandbox environment has now been launched, which means you can set up your own AT protocol-enabled server.

It's possible that Bluesky will finally start federating by the end of summer. However, knowing how most dev teams work, this launch is not a certainty. It always takes time to iron out bugs.

How successful do you think Bluesky's federation will be? And how will it impact the current userbase using Bluesky?

https://beyondtheblue.substack.com/p/beyond-the-blue-6

@fediversenews

jwildeboer, to Facebook
@jwildeboer@social.wildeboer.net avatar

Don't be naive, people. is only interested in collecting more data and to connect that data to profiles to feed to the ad machinery. If can be used for that, they will give it a try. That's it. That's all. It's still Facebook.

ci,

@supernovae @jwildeboer Bluesky uses though. Are you saying that the upcoming platform will (somehow) support two different protocols?

jonny, to bluesky
@jonny@neuromatch.social avatar

so far, / seems like a federated system the same way Google Alerts is a federated system.

  • you can self host your website or uses Google sites.
  • Google crawls you
  • People subscribe to algos/alerts
  • Google Alerts emails you the matches
jonny, to bluesky
@jonny@social.coop avatar

OK even funnier than / 's plc DID method relying on a single domain is that the hardcoded DID for bsky.app isn't registered, they don't even use it for the default algorithms and just hardcode a workaround.

WHICH MEANS that whoever finds a (truncated) hash collision for the bsky.app DID will cause an absolute fucking mess hahhahaahhaah

trying to resolve the DID for bsky.app against plc.directory fails, "DID not registered"
Check if the feed url is one of the local algos, and if it is, just call the localAlgo function rather than resolving the DID

jonny,
@jonny@social.coop avatar

@blaise
but ya, here's another example where the / devs seem to not really have planned for federation. talking about thread-level moderation, which would be really cool, but that is really hard to do in a federated context. ultimately to make that work you have to defer functionality to the feed generators (making federation pointless) or else just keep having a single server.

jo.nny.rip . 1h @jo.nny.rip this is another thing that is easy with single server but extremely hard in a federated context. OP deletes a harmful post. can you make the other server delete the post? should you be able to? OP locks replies. other servers ignore, issue replies. should people who follow those ppl not see them?
jo.nny.rip @jo.nny.rip . 1h you can make all sorts of features if you assume every server behaves nicely. what happens when they don't? ATProto's federation architecture is still largely unspecd, but can you do anything at the level of a server? what about the feed constructors ignoring your deletion? jo.nny.rip @jo.nny.rip⚫ 1h this thread seems to show another thing about the Algo feeds - they don't seem to work for getting new accounts integrated into any sort of social space. who is going to read a feed specifically of posts with no engagement? this is what instances do.

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