Almost everyone who says "Mastodon didn't work for me" on Bluesky seems to have posted only "me me me" stuff for months (if that) on Mastodon, followed about 10-20 people, never replied to anyone and then gave up because "nobody there, it didn't fly".
It seems there is a big misunderstanding how this free and healthy social media works. We are not here for the easy wins, likes, shares and dopamine spikes. We are here because we accept the fact we are not part of the commercial hype machine. We choose natural engagement over spoiling algorithms, we choose conversation and meaning in our social media. At least that is how I see it.
@chrisod@rolle Audience building for monetisation can also work on Mastodon, but it requires longer time span and real interaction. There are a good amount of artists and journalists on Mastodon who benefit financially from the amount of effort they put in. It's not quick wins, but part of a longer process.
@autiomaa@rolle True - but 99% of people aren't going to work that hard at building real connections. They want an algorithm that they can game. And I'm fine with that. If Mastodon ever becomes the dominant player, it'll be a failure, because it'll mean all those folks are here.
@autiomaa@chrisod@rolle Actually there's been some work done that shows engagement on Mastodon can drive more views to third party sites than other platforms. It just requires a more conversational approach.
@rolle I'm so old, I remember the days when the formerly-Twitter didn't have weird algorithms for "things you're certainly interested in" and we had to find interesting accounts all by ourselves and the following of more than 10-20 people kind of happened organically. That's how I did it on Mastodon too, because that's what I'm used to. (OK, this time around I was able to look at my formerly-Twitter friends' bios and add them on Mastodon. But I did find new interesting accounts all on my own.)
@juliainfinland I have been also on Twitter since 2007 and remember those days. But the social media back in the 2000s was more natural. The business strategies towards monetizing the user data ruined it all.
@rolle That's why I love Tumblr (lovingly called "this hellsite" by us users). People tried selling it several times and nobody would have it even for one dollar. 😂 There are ads there nowadays, but they don't get past my adblocker. And there's either no algorithm for "popular posts" or it's easily disabled in the settings, can't remember which. In any case, it's a pretty good social media experience.
(Also, I can follow people/accounts through my feed reader, which is very convenient.)
@rolle "I'm so old, I remember the days when" and now I'm thinking of that Viivi+Wagner strip where one of them talked about their grandma who had to go to school on skis because back then that's what you did because there were no school buses, and then there was one panel where poor Grandma (as a young woman) trudged along on skis+with winter clothes including a Four Winds hat. Through a blooming summer meadow, sweating like a [CENSORED]. 😂
@rolle this actually reminded me to go over there and see what's new... not much / not much engagement. Almost as if spending the majority of my time here, and having a network here, makes it valuable.
@rolle
Corporate 'Social' Media
Is a competition space for gaining followers, ego-boosting, #shitposting & self promotion. It is how they are built & designed. A few massively circulated posts, from handful of accounts & a vast sea of ignored posts.
Community #Social#Media
Is a cooperative space for finding friends, learning stuff, supporting each other &having fun. With attention spread between users far more evenly. It is not a social overlords vs serf audience model. #Fedi#Fediverse
@Zergy@rolle@mortal
Shitposting and meming can be a solid part of having fun. (look at my account)
My distinction is on the #Fedi anyone can do it, just when they want to, but don't have to maintain doing it.
On Corporate Social Media, a handful of very focused accounts get almost every shitpost & meme seen, even when they're bad, unoriginal, duplicates, etc...
...but most regular accounts get almost zero shitpost or meme seen, no matter how good.
Boosts are the key to social media & human society. They make both people feel good cause the boosted feels valued & the booster feels like they bestowed a gift. They create a sense of connection/understanding. And going viral makes it feel like a community. Big picture, it's how humans flourish. Building culture by sharing ideas and art.
It's what algos do essentially, so we just have to do more of that here (chosen by human not corporate incentives) to make up for not having them.
I don't think they want the algo but a lively feed (and they don't consider the downsides of a feed filled by an algo they don't control). we can help by boosting more.
some want this place to be more laid back. I don't.
@rolle I’m much happier here than in any other social network. And since I benchmark my life based on happiness and not on ego boosting… thumbs up for Mastodon.
That said, the idea that social networks must “work” reveals - I think - an utilitarian way of considering social stuff. I understand why people think so, of course, but huh, it’s quite sad if you ask me.
@rolle ...I must admit I'm here also for the dopamine hits :D It's nice when people I seem to share an actual connection with like the stuff I post.
That's also a reason I'm not here every day. Because as healthy an enviroment this is compared to other social media, this does still have potential for serious addiction.
@PeltonenJanne Yes, humans need dopamine to enjoy themselves. This feels contradictionary to what I just posted about, but I'm not saying it's fully a bad thing, but only that it's not the number one motivator like it too easily is on the other social media sites.
@rolle This. Exactly. I've been on Mastodon since 2017 (as well as on Twitter, which I've left now) and I was so happy to see many of my Twitter friends drift in and get settled in much less hypey surroundings.
How is it bad to aim to healthier things? Why can't we be candid about it? In my world this is like finding bad things in good things. Or then I have misunderstood something.
@rolle You're not aiming for "healthier" things; your aiming for things you personally want.
For actually healthy social media you need a (hugely) diverse set of people, and yes, that often includes conflict. And often includes stuff that you don't agree with or don't want to hear.
If you want no conflict, and peace and love only, that's not social media. Write a blog and turn off the comments.
@rolle Mastodon seems to be much better for actual "peer to peer" discussions. Bluesky on the other hand works quite well to replace the twitters "Check what these public personas are chatting about" function. Although we shall see how well B survives the incoming hordes of normies&trolls.
@rolle One of the quite annoying issues if one tries to create a new account on Mastodon is the bad interactions with the servers, and trying to find the "popular accounts", especially as viewing who people are following can be hard, so re-creating follow networks takes a ton of effort.
Following from other instances may not be displayed.
Is really annoying message, and going to original instance -> copying usernames from there to follow them is not a great workflow.
@rolle How many times have people arrived to Mastodon and complained "It's dead here", then I'll ask how many people do you follow? It's usually under 10. On Twitter you didn't have to follow. The algorithm filled your timeline, and following the wrong person could be dangerous. Honestly I wish the onboarding process just made you randomly follow twenty people right off the bat.
@mike@rolle 💯 I think one of the biggest hurdles here is that it’s counterintuitive for people used to other social media to follow more than a few friends and a few “blue checks” and Mastodon works best by casting a wide net. I go into it here on #3
@rolle Honestly, my issue with #Mastodon is people like you. You did not say you are here because you want to be here. Your reasons for being here can be summarized as an act of defiance or opposition. It's a negative position against a system of power. That implies that you believe social interactions can be reduced to power dynamics, even with complete random strangers.
That, right there, is my issue with people on any #socialmedia, to be frank. They are not in those spaces for anything positive; instead, it is some bizarre form of the Mini Max algorithm in Game Theory where they serve to block the other side as a strategy towards "winning". Ironically, a paradigm of opposition connotes competition which is ironically the opposite of cooperation that is the spirit behind the #fediverse so much so it underpins the idea of different technologies, sites, and platforms speaking to each other, such as how you can follow #Lemmy and #Peertube from here.
I wonder if the people who define their entire identity in a negative sense - opposition to something is a negative position against that thing, have any fun. Any inkling of happiness at all?
That's why people are leaving. They are leaving because #Mastodon is filled with insufferable, negative people who reduce social interactions down to social power struggles and try to use culture to influence other people because they are miserable.
As an occultist and someone who was raised by black radical family members, I find your "screed" not only banal but unoriginal. It is basically a reiteration of the basic praxis and ethos of a hacker. Gasp Which you are. At most, it is so mediocre it is boring. At worst, the antagonism, pedantic tone, and inability for people invested in #Mastodon to take criticism are insufferable and narcissistic.
Honestly, it is very spiteful. When you view your presence in a place not as something to enjoy but as something to oppose and frustrate someone else regardless of your happiness, that is spite.
Your post elegantly summarizes your basic #Mastodon user, which includes how spiteful, vindictive, and miserable the average #Mastodon user is.
@rolle Why do people continue to feel that every social media app has to appeal to everyone? If Masto isn’t for everyone, so what? Same goes for Twitter, Threads, Bluesky, etc
@rolle I mean, mastodon may not appeal to some 'cos it doesn't have twitter-like level of dramas.
However, personally, even if my fav artists are not here, and it might be lonesome that your moots still on twitter and don't wanna move in here, but I feel much better in mastodon 'cos here (or at least on my instance) people are just vibing at their own pace without feeling like in rat race, and not getting triggered like feral animals over petite things like fictional characters
@rolle wow! Facts! I’m new here so I don’t know much but I enjoy reading real news update from other people without the censoring. I’ve never been part of the masses more of an observer. ❤️🫶🏼
@rolle that’s a great way to put it. I’m new here and I must say that it’s liberating to be in a social media platform where hate and monetizing are not the driving forces. I don’t have any followers yet so I just post my random daily life. I guess I use it as a bit of a journal. It’s good to be here!
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