Gaming

nevernevermore, in Remove one letter from the title of a video game; what is the plot now?
nevernevermore avatar

Dadspace - A game of smoking meats and questionable fashion choices

catarina,
catarina avatar

Don't forget the bad jokes

nevernevermore,
nevernevermore avatar

that's in the DLC - dad loadable content

Robtheverb13,

I’d like to play the other games in that series, like Dad Rising and Dad island

Liquid,

Don't forget Red Dad Redemption, House of the Dad and Left 4 Dad

rocker,
rocker avatar

What if I prefer my meats questionable and my fashion choices smoking?

Kolanaki, in Games only need fast travel when they make travel "boring", says Dragon's Dogma 2 director
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

Travel is gonna become boring if you have to travel the same road multiple times in the course of the game even if you have a bunch of cool stuff along that road. Eventually, I won’t give a shit about that stuff since I’ve seen it a million times. So I would hope there is still some kind of fast travel to go between places I have already been if the world is super big. Otherwise it’s just gonna feel like you’re padding the game for time to inflate a 10 hour story to take 40 hours to finish.

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.run avatar

I think the better way to help fix this issue is random encounters, spawns, and a world that changes as the game moves along.

Moving along the same road can be made interesting if different things are happening every so often as you come through. New friendly encounters, new fights with different enemies, maybe randomly spawning treasure or scripted puzzle sequences that can appear dynamically around the whole world. Add to that a world that becomes modified by story events, maybe that road gets blocked and a different passage opens up that takes you to the same end destination, but with a new path and things to explore.

It's not an unsolvable problem, but it is something that goes by the wayside often.

Ashelyn, (edited )

One thing to consider too is scheduled events. Imagine a couple towns get together and throw a fair along a route that connects them, and you get to see celebrations and games and vendors who might sell trinkets that are hard to track down otherwise. Perhaps the local monarch goes on a hunt with the massive party of servants and knights that might entail, with different practices for different cultures. A band of cultists clears an area for several days leading up to their yearly ritual. It’s migration season for a certain species of animal/monster. There are so many possibilities!

Even just vendors passing through can be made more interesting. Do they carry their wares via backpack or cart? Are they being attacked by bandits? Wild animals? Are they trying to smuggle goods or services somewhere?

It all has to be programmed of course, which is the main holdup on what makes it so hard to flesh out those parts of the world.

I do also see weight in the idea that, past a certain point, traveling is just boring, especially if the only thing of importance is the Main Story Quest. Travel is also often boring in real life too but we can tune it out, or find little ways to pass the time and entertain ourselves during the more mundane moments. We’re not frequently afforded that luxury in games. When you’re playing a game and dealing with the downtime going from point A to B, often there is literally nothing to do except hold down the movement keys and deal with the occasional path change/obstacle.

The point of games is to be engaging, and if there’s nothing to do while traveling but look at the scenery and surroundings it will eventually get boring. Even if the travel gets interrupted occasionally for an encounter, I think it’s arguable to say that the content is literally not travel anymore and in fact papering over a bad travel system (if the only thing interesting is the stuff you find that you have to stop and take care of). Adding more unique/transient stuff along routes is only half of the battle; work has to be put in to make traveling enjoyable in and of itself for players to want to do it instead of skip it.

But as always, the best solution to our problem is to simply add more trains.

Edit: slight restructuring/grammar

wolfshadowheart,
wolfshadowheart avatar

To add to this, DD1 has quite a number of NPC's that travel between regions and you can come across them. As you progress through the game their patterns and locations change.

I actually am ambivalent on the latter mechanic as it really makes it a pain sometimes, but it still has lots of ways that it can work well.

snooggums,
snooggums avatar

Depends on the reason for traveling. If you are headed down the road to a goal and keep getting sidetracked by random encounters in a way that is distracting you from the thing you want to do then they just make travel tedious.

It all comes down to why am I traveling and why are encounters on the road more engaging than the reason for being on the road in the first place.

Lith,
@Lith@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

From the article:

And for the record, Itsuno does say that he thinks fast travel is “convenient” and “good” when done right.

Based on Dragon’s Dogma 1’s use of Ferrystones, as well as this mechanic returning along with oxcarts in the sequel, I think this director understands that there needs to be a balance. It’s good when it’s both properly implemented and has a purpose. You’re right that nobody wants to run up and down the same roads countless times, but it’s up to the devs implementing limited fast travel to make sure you won’t have to. Then it’s up to the player to decide whether fast travel is worth it for any given situation. Knowing when to use your fast travel and how to maximize it is a skill that you develop and should be rewarded for mastering.

But it also needs to have a purpose. In more arcadey games, I don’t like worrying about resources like that. But in more grueling games like Dragon’s Dogma, where the journey is often a very intentional part of the gameplay loop if not the main challenge itself, it fits right at home.

MJBrune, in Unity Has Apologized For Its Install Fee Policy and Says It 'Will Be Making Changes' to It - IGN

Far too late to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

conciselyverbose, in Overwatch 2 director opens up about having the worst-reviewed game on Steam: 'Being review-bombed isn't a fun experience'

If real people hate your game because of the changes you made from the last one (that you took away from them), that's not a review bomb.

It's just a review.

Primarily0617,

You're entirely disconnected to reality if you think Overwatch 2 deserves to be the worst-reviewed game on Steam.

TwilightVulpine,

On Steam being reviewed poorly is not a matter of rating from 1 to 10, but how many people would recommend it or not. It's completely valid that the vast majority of people would not recommend this game even if it's not a 0/10.

Primarily0617,

yes obviously, and none of that changes anything about the fact that very clearly OW2 isn't bad enough to deserve the title of worst rated game on steam

TwilightVulpine,

You tried to argue with someone else over this, but the fact that more people played it, being F2P, means that more people can agree that they wouldn't recommend it. Given how Steam ratings work, that makes it the worst rated. There's no arguing how it is. You seem to take an issue with it as if it meant Gabe Newell personally stamped it with a 0/10, which is not how it works.

In Steam, being 4/10 for thousands of people is worse than being 0/10 for a couple people.

conciselyverbose,

Based on what?

The negatives are extremely bad, and people are legitimately reviewing the game negatively because they legitimately think it's a pile of shit.

It is literally unconditionally impossible for it to be a review bomb if the reviews are motivated by the core design decisions of the game.

Primarily0617,

Today's concurrent player peak is ~47k.

Why would 47k people choose to play the game when it's the worst game on Steam? Literally worse than a game like Bad Rats: the Rats' Revenge that fundamentally doesn't function correctly. For reference, its peak today was about 20 players.

Before you reply with something like "marketing", you seriously think that if Bad Rats launched today, and with the same marketing budget as OW2, that it would achieve anywhere close to 47k players peak 10 months after its release?

Like I said: you're disconnected from reality if you think OW2 is the worst game on Steam.

conciselyverbose,

Did bad rats deliberately steal a game people liked to replace it with an addiction machine?

Primarily0617,

deliberately steal a game people liked to replace it with an addiction machine

what the actual fuck are you talking about

520,

The original Overwatch, which had none of this shit and was a one-off payment, was killed off in favour of OW2

Primarily0617,

leaving a negative review because of that would by definition be review bombing, because at that point you're not reviewing the game, but external context that surrounds it

520, (edited )

Not really. Reviewing the game as OW with enshittification is a perfectly reasonable review of OW2 in and of itself.

Especially if the publishers made the one-off purchase version unusable just to push people onto the enshittified one.

Primarily0617,

"i liked overwatch 1" is not a valid review of the game overwatch 2, and people leaving reviews to that effect en-masse is pretty textbook review bombing

520,

Yes it is. It's perfectly valid.

It says that the changes in Overwatch 2 are unpopular with the reviewer.

If the changes were positive or even unnoteworthy, that review wouldn't be there

Primarily0617,

if you're reviewing specific things you don't like, that's reviewing a product

leaving a negative review because "OW1 was killed off" isn't doing that

if you want to discuss specific things you don't like, please provide some that would reasonably justify OW2 being literally the worst reviewed game on steam rn

520, (edited )

leaving a negative review because "OW1 was killed off" isn't doing that

Leaving a review because "OW1 was killed off" and the intended transition route was a drastically inferior product, is in fact reviewing a product.

Context is actually an important part of reviews. Orcarina or Time looks like a shit game today, and needs the context of being a late 90's innovator to fully appreciate it. Likewise, a BoTW clone would look fantastic, a game changer, even...if a certain 2017 game hadn't already set the benchmark.

Calling something an inferior version of its predecessor, which was cynically shut down to push people to this inferior product, is worthy review information. It tells people that a superior product existed, and all this new product is, is the enshittification of it.

Primarily0617,

you're reviewing a different product

ow1 was shut down to avoid splitting the playerbase. when kaplan went on record saying that he'd fought to get ow1 owners a copy of ow2 for free everybody loved it, but now it's bad, actually? yes that makes sense

Orcarina or Time looks like a shit game today

comparing the entire landscape of gaming to a game is a very different thing to comparing it to a specific game

it would be like if somebody reviewed Baldur's Gate 3 by saying it was bad just because they liked the source powers from Divinity 2. as part of a review maybe it works, sure but as the bedrock and sole item of substance, it's useless.

your entire argument so far has been "I preferred the previous game therefore OW2 deserves to be the worst reviewed game on steam". even ignoring the fact that you've failed to articulate any differences past a vague notion of not liking that it's free-to-play, that's an almost laughably braindead take

520,

you're reviewing a different product

And making comparisons between the two products is perfectly valid.

ow1 was shut down to avoid splitting the playerbase.

I'm sorry, are you an Activision/Blizzard employee?

I ask because only one of their employees could come up with such a bullshit statement. The core gameplay loops aren't different enough to cause that kind of split, and OW2 Is free-to-play. Anybody that wanted to voluntarily jump from OW1 to OW2 could have freely done so at literally no cost, if they so wanted.

They shut down OW1 to a) pump up the numbers for OW2 and b) to get OW1 players forcibly exposed to their F2P market.

when kaplan went on record saying that he'd fought to get ow1 owners a copy of ow2 for free everybody loved it, but now it's bad, actually? yes that makes sense

Definitely an Activision/Blizzard employee. Nobody else would miss the disingenuity of making such a statement about a free-to-play game.

comparing the entire landscape of gaming to a game is a very different thing to comparing it to a specific game

And my point is, taking into account the landscape, even in a macro level such as Activision's own behaviour with the series, including this very game, is relevant context worthy of being part of a review.

it would be like if somebody reviewed Baldur's Gate 3 by saying it was bad just because they liked the source powers from Divinity 2. as part of a review maybe it works, sure but as the bedrock and sole item of substance, it's useless.

Your analogy falls flat because Divinity and BG, though they share much of the same inspirations and development staff, are very different games. OW2 is basically OW1 with some minor tweaks and microtransactions.

The problem with OW2's mtx though is that the game makes it as hard as possible to ignore its microtransaction nature as possible, and they willingly hamper the user experience to do so.

Other than the MTX, OW2 is so similar to OW1, that without it, these reviews would be saying that they're essentially the same game. So what they're saying now, that it's OW1 enshittified, is valid.

your entire argument so far has been "I preferred the previous game therefore OW2 deserves to be the worst reviewed game on steam".

If that's what you took away from my comments, then I'm afraid you cannot read. That, or you're unable to discern from different users. All I've said was that people calling OW2 basically enshittified OW1 is not review bombing, because it's a valid review.

even ignoring the fact that you've failed to articulate any differences past a vague notion of not liking that it's free-to-play

Because there are very few differences and none of them are improvements. Like the shrinking of team sizes and available modes.

Also, F2P can be predatory as fuck, and Activision/Blizzard have most certainly been so here. they've even broken sales laws in countries like Australia.

Primarily0617,
  • The core gameplay loops aren't different enough
  • OW2 is basically OW1 with some minor tweaks
  • OW2 is so similar to OW1, that without it, these reviews would be saying that they're essentially the same game
  • All I've said was that people calling OW2 basically enshittified OW1 is not review bombing, because it's a valid review.
  • Because there are very few differences

Okay so you clearly agree that OW2 doesn't deserve to be the lowest rated game on steam, since "there are very few differences", and you liked OW1.

I don't really care what semantic nonsense or mental gymnastics you have to apply to convince yourself that whatever caused it to be ranked so low doesn't count as review bombing.

520, (edited )

Okay so you clearly agree that OW2 doesn't deserve to be the lowest rated game on steam, since "there are very few differences", and you liked OW1.

I do agree it doesn't deserve to be seen as literally the worst game on Steam. I never said otherwise. I hate, hate, HATE the MTX system...but as you said, this doesn't make it literally the worst game ever. MTX aside the game still works and the core gameplay loop is fun while you're in a match. Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing this is not.

Would I hit the Recommend button on Steam? No. The MTX strategy is a deal breaker for me. Whenever I'm not in a match I feel like a fucking product. At that point I'd rather just fire up another shooter because I straight up don't want to deal with that shit.

OW2 isn't a bad game. It is a predatory game. It is debatable which is worse (I consider predatory to be much worse than bad). Being predatory is plenty reason enough for a bad review.

conciselyverbose,

The reason Overwatch 2 is the worst reviewed game Steam has ever had?

A bad game does a lot less harm than a game that seems good on the surface then tries to rob you blind.

Primarily0617,

by "tries to rob you blind" you mean a game with entirely optional additional purchases?

wow you're right they really get you with that "you can pay if you want" model

it's practically criminal definitely worthy of being the worst ranked game on steam

ErianKalil,
@ErianKalil@lemmy.world avatar

Optional? They added the new heroes to the battle pass…. Doesn’t seem that optional, unless you want to spend hours of farming the free tier… for me, that definitely deserves a negative rating.

Primarily0617,

isn't that exactly how games like league of legends do it?

ErianKalil,
@ErianKalil@lemmy.world avatar

I don’t know, I’ve never played LoL, but either way, I don’t see how that does it make it look better for OW.

And if we really want to make a comparison, let’s make it with OW1. There new heroes were unlocked automatically for everyone when they were released. Usually in a sequel dev try to make things better, not worse.

Primarily0617,

I don’t know, I’ve never played LoL, but either way, I don’t see how that does it make it look better for OW.

because there very obviously isn't this level of negative-hype for LoL, when it does the exact same thing

ErianKalil,
@ErianKalil@lemmy.world avatar

Probably because it was like that from the start? In OW they changed how the unlocking of characters works, in an objectively worse way.

conciselyverbose,

There is no such thing as a microtransaction that is not pure unredeemable evil.

Primarily0617,

then please explain why Counter Strike Global Offensive, Team Fortress 2, Dota 2, etc. don't deserve to have the same rating

conciselyverbose,

As far as I'm concerned they do. But my opinion doesn't decide the rating of a game any more than yours that's it's supposedly a better game than bad rats.

It's a product of everyone who votes giving their opinion, and the entire steam userbase has come to the consensus that Overwatch 2 is a particularly egregious example of it.

It cannot possibly be a review bomb when the reviews are legitimate opinions based on what the game is.

Primarily0617,

supposedly a better game than bad rats

the previously referenced games all sit above 80% positive and yet have the exact same problems that you cite as OW2's reason for being bad

legitimate opinions

"the zeitgeist has told them that the game is bad" is not a legitimate reason for not liking OW2, hence accusations of review bombing

if you think there are legitimate reasons OW2 deserves the rating it has, by all means please provide them, but so far all you've given me are that also apply to basically all the popular F2P games on Steam.

cre0,

Because it’s a F2P game that is monetized as such and exists only to make the game I bought obsolete.

I bought a game.

The game I have now is not the game I bought.

Primarily0617,

correct: it's a different game

reviewing it because it's not Overwatch 1 is by definition review bombing

cre0,

it’s the game they gave me to replace the game i purchased.

if i bought a toyota camry, and 2 years later toyota said “sorry we can’t let you continue using your camry, here’s a corolla” you better fucking believe i’d be trashing toyota in every public space possible to warn potential customers.

Primarily0617,

"i wanted a camry not a corolla" is not a valid review of a corolla

cre0,

It absolutely is if I bought a Camry and got a Corolla.

Enjoy life in prescriptive hell my guy 🙄

Primarily0617,

in your analogy you bought a camry and mr toyota said "we're getting rid of this camry but don't worry i fought to get you a free corolla" and were fine with it and hailed mr toyota as a hero but then mr toyota left the company so the free corolla became poisonous and bad

cre0,

What?

520,

Those games are not nearly as aggressive in their attempts to get you to buy shit. CSGO? a tiny ass fucking button to buy Prime. TF2? Don't even remember seeing a shop button.

OW2? Makes the worst, money hungry mobile free-to-play blush with how aggressive it tries to sell you shit.

And they killed OW1, just for this.

Primarily0617,

tf2 drops crates every 30 minutes that's literally just an advert for the in-game store (which has a dedicated button pretty clearly labelled on the main menu)

pretty sure CSGO does the same

520,

CSGO does not do the same. I play that one regularly.

Primarily0617,

you're saying CSGO doesn't drop crates?

520,

If it does, I've literally never seen it, and I play regularly. The closest I ever got was the Halo MCC soundtrack in CSGO, and I'm pretty sure I only got that because I also have MCC on Steam.

Primarily0617,

my guy csgo crates were controversial enough a few years ago that people sued valve over them, and at no point did csgo come anywhere close to being the worst reviewed game on steam

how are you unironically out here saying that csgo doesn't drop crates?

kmkz_ninja,

You wouldn’t ever know about the worst game on Steam because no one would have bought it. Your logic is off a bit.

Primarily0617,

"The reason it's so badly reviewed is that it's too popular" is certainly a take.

kmkz_ninja,

Go outside and take a picture of the bug that has the best camouflage in your yard for me, would you?

TwilightVulpine,

You are really trying to downplay the power of marketing, but you seem to realize that gets people playing. Not only that but live service design is very effective at keeping people playing even when they are not having any fun whatsoever. Because they gotta grind the battle pass and such. Extrinsic rewards and habit-forming conditioning making up for a lack of intrinsic enjoyment.

Still, I would agree with you that it's not the worst game on Steam, but like I mentioned in the other comment, that's not what steam ratings mean. It means that the vast majority people would not recommend it, and that seems pretty reasonable.

Primarily0617,

bf2042 had a playercount in the high 1000s 2 months after its launch

ow2 released 10 months ago

are you saying bf2042 didn't have marketing?

which is more likely:

  • 50k people have been brainwashed into playing the game every day, and similar numbers into watching it on twitch
  • there is review bombing
TwilightVulpine,

Doesn't look like you even read my full comment so I'm gonna wait till you do.

Primarily0617,

i mean i ignored the second part because it was irrelevant

"You're entirely disconnected to reality if you think Overwatch 2 deserves to be the worst-reviewed game on Steam." doesn't say "deserves to be the worst game", so if we're playing the reading game maybe you should take the first turn

TwilightVulpine,

Oh, so you have no response to it so you are gonna pretend it doesn't matter. I see.

I could say I'd do the same but nothing you are saying now even addresses what I already responded to you, so I'll just call it a job done.

Primarily0617,

yes good job you failed to read my comment again 👏👏

NewNewAccount,

What’s the criteria for being deserving of the worst game on Steam?

It’s not a good game. Regardless of how good it is, it’s MUCH less than what was promised and people are voicing their opinion about its monetization model.

Primarily0617,

It’s not a good game

which is why it's hitting a 47k player peak 10 months after launch for only users that have linked their account

voicing their opinion about its monetization model

you mean the one where actually paying money for it is entirely optional? damn that's horrible what monsters

NewNewAccount,

You on Blizzard’s payroll?

Primarily0617,

yeah i get paid in rule34 overwatch videos

NewNewAccount,

Baby! Now we’re talking.

CraigeryTheKid,

the game/steam release definitely deserved bad reviews - but it’d be hard to deny that it wasn’t also a bombing run.

conciselyverbose,

A review bomb is when people start jumping down the game's throat with negative reviews for shit unrelated/peripheral to the game. If they're triggered by the actual core design choices of the game it isn't a review bomb.

These reviews are because the game is a money grubbing downgrade from the game people bought and had taken away from them, and this is the first opportunity they had to publish a review on a storefront. The motivation being the actual game means it can't be a review bomb.

crossmr,

So if General motors was using slave labour to build their cars and feeding said labour with baby kittens, would you consider it a review bomb for someone to say 'You shouldn't buy the latest vehicle from General motors because of the way it is made'?

What if general motors came out and said that they think a great start to the day is to wake up and punch a dutchman in the face?

A review is, ultimately, a recommendation of whether or not you think other people should buy this product. If you can't recommend it because of something the company who made it did, to me, it's still a review. Because recommending that product is recommending financial support of that company. Not recommending it, is not supporting them.

For me a real review bomb would occur generally only in a case where a site like 4chan might suddenly spin a wheel of mayhem and pick a random game to just go shit on or something like that.

conciselyverbose,

By definition, yes, that's a review bomb. It has no connection in any way to the quality of the product, which is what a review is.

ampersandrew,
ampersandrew avatar

If they're still playing the game anyway, I might call that a review bomb.

520,

Plenty of people leave negative reviews for games they otherwise play. Especially where big changes are put into effect

ampersandrew,
ampersandrew avatar

That's the exact recipe for ensuring that they don't change it back.

520,

That's depends on the business model. For one-off payment games, it still does considerable damage, whereas they don't gain much by you continuing to play.

For subscription games, your point stands much stronger.

ampersandrew,
ampersandrew avatar

It's a free to play multiplayer game. If you continue playing it, you're providing value for some other player who might spend money, so just by being in the matchmaking pool, they've got you where they want you, and they won't care about your review.

NotTheOnlyGamer,
NotTheOnlyGamer avatar

Exactly. People need to vote with their wallets and PCs.

cre0,

So overwatch 2 is objectively terrible, but putting that aside for a moment…

Can you seriously not envision a scenario where you personally do a thing (maybe even enjoy that thing), but still wouldn’t recommend it to others?

ampersandrew,
ampersandrew avatar

Can you seriously envision a scenario where the worst game of all time is among the most-played?

cre0,

Ah okay I see you’re the kind of kid who answers a question with a question. 🤦‍♂️

Enjoy picking petty fights over… who likes which video game better. Not really my dig kiddo

ampersandrew,
ampersandrew avatar

Yes, I answered your question with a question because your scenario was as absurd as you perceived mine to be. So I'll answer yours directly: "yes, but not at that scale". Because at that scale, it's a review bomb.

cre0,

K

hook,

No, it's still a review because you're still actively dealing with whatever it is you're complaining about.

"Hey, I really like/liked the core game play loop of this game but I think that it's gotten significantly worse than it was previously. It'd be nice if they changed it back?

4/10."

RandallFlagg, in Final Fantasy 16 sales did not meet high expectations, says Square Enix president

I’m interested in playing this but I don’t own a PS5 and I’m not buying a whole console for one game. They would have gotten a day 1 sale out of me if they released it on PC.

QuantumField,

Ditto for me. I have all Final Fantasy games released on PC, but I can’t justify buying a PS5 for a single game. I’ve chosen to watch a let’s play of the game. Glad I did because it’s definitely not a Final Fantasy I’d play a second time.

CIWS-30,

Knowing them, they'll probably do it. It'll just take a year or so.

Edit: that said, they should've done it to start with, and not kept it off of X-box. They're killing their brand and mindshare here.

Gordon_Freeman,
Gordon_Freeman avatar

they'll probably do it

FTFY. The PC version was confirmed a long time ago

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

Originally, they did plan to release it on PS5 and PC. My guess is Sony made a timed exclusivity deal with them, which Sony had done with companies before. SE shout themselves in the foot by taking it.

GeekFTW, in Ubisoft thinks it's okay to delete your games library now apparently
GeekFTW avatar

And this is why it's always morally ok to pirate anything Ubisoft puts out!

s_s, in 87% Missing: the Disappearance of Classic Video Games | Video Game History Foundation

Copyright on software should be much shorter than other media.

voodooattack,

Copyright on software should end once it’s no longer commercially available for purchase.

The_Picard_Maneuver,
@The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world avatar

That seems incredibly reasonable.

muftiboy, in Cyberpunk 2077 was “better than it was received,” CDPR dev says

when I saw everyone high on hypium and how they advertised it like it's the cure for cancer I knew it was gonna be a cash grab

MudMan, (edited ) in Cyberpunk 2077 was “better than it was received,” CDPR dev says
MudMan avatar
Nevertheless, Platkow-Gilewski also says that he feels the original version of Cyberpunk 2077 was “better than it was received.”

“I actually believe Cyberpunk on launch was way better than it was received, and even the first reviews were positive. Then it became a cool thing not to like it. We went from hero to zero really fast. We knew that the game was great, yes we can improve it, yes we need to take time to do it, and we need to rebuild some stuff.

“That took us a lot of time, but I don’t believe we were ever broken. We were always like ‘let’s do this.’” 

Yeah, I actually can get behind this. They got a lot of crap for the technical performance of the last-gen console version, partly because there was no current-gen native version. Having played it on PC day one my impression was that it was rough-to-normal (still better than day one Skyrim). Design-wise, the combat parts and open world design are the least interesting parts of it to this day, but even at the time I thought the narrative elements and obviously the visuals were great.

Just to sanity check this, even with the torubled launch the PC version reviewed with an average of 86 on Metacritic and sold very well. It was a technically rough launch and they should have delayed the console ports at the very least, but it's not a bad game.

the_thunder_god,
the_thunder_god avatar

I think on PC it was tolerable at launch. Definitely not perfect, but not a hot mess either. On consoles, I think I would agree with you though.
I got my fill before the first major patch hit....100%ing it and playing all paths of the main story I could find.

Varyag,

Exactly this, thank you! I had an amazing time with the game on release, and yes I DO remember launch day Skyrim and how broken it was. And how game-breakingly buggy it CONTINUED TO BE for over a year. There was a main story quest that I was unable to complete because of broken voicelines not being loaded! In comparison, CP2077 was a smooth as butter experience, and I had very few serious bugs. The one time I had them, a simple reload of my save fixed it.

Madison_rogue,
Madison_rogue avatar

The release of the game really hinged around the system you had at the time of launch. I really wanted to buy the game prior to launch, but I'm glad I didn't. All the promises CDPR made sounded awfully familiar to all those promises Hello Games made about NMS.

I didn't purchase the game until I had a PS5, and the Playstation Store put it back in their queue (PS4 version). I bought it on sale, yet a week later it was going for like $25 IIRC. I should have waited, but whatever. And there were minor issues, but the game was not broken like the clips I saw at launch. And I'll say it again, despite all the promises the studio made, a lot of the problems revolved around the specific equipment you were running.

The dev kind of does have a point, there was some overreaction, and seriously how many times are gamers going to continue to trust studios to deliver on their promises to these kind of games? However I believe he's painting a different picture at a critical point in the game's history where its first expansion is on the horizon.

And you see these same promises coming from the studio. The tone sounds so similar. Don't buy the DLC until after launch...I'm not. Wait to see the game reviews before buying. The only way publishers will stop making these overblown promises is when gamers stop pre-ordering games and expansions, regardless what carrots they dangle.

BananaTrifleViolin,

I think it's a good perspective but it rather downplays the biggest problem: Hype. He talkes about being "hyped up" and all this "hype surrounding us was big pressure" but it is one of the biggest reasons the game was recieved so harshly. It had been built up into being one of the greatest games ever made. In the end it was a good game but couldn't live up to the expectations.

Also while the game was better on PC, it really was a disaster on PS4 and Xbox One which is what drove it's bad reputation.

I like the game but to be honest I'm yet to finish it. The plot and narrative is good, but the open world is disappointing with far too much reliance on purely combat side missions, often with minimal associated narrative. The world would have felt much richer if they'd put in more narrative around the side missions and found other non-combat things to do in the city. I loved the Witcher 3 which has a lot of story around the side missions. I think CDPR could have take a leaf out of Bethesda's book for CP had multiple narratives running alongside the main plot.

But ultimately the game finishes unfinished - they promised too much to deliver at that launch, so kudos to them to being able to focus and deliver a good core game. It just could have been a great game if they'd managed to develop other elements of the game world.

circuitfarmer,
@circuitfarmer@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

Matches my experience too. Everyone I’ve talked to who had a horrendous experience on launch was not playing on PC.

Yes, it was overhyped. Yes, there were design calls which contradicted some claims. Is CDPR unique in that? Not at all. If we normalize it to other large launches, the PC version really wasn’t that botched.

becool,

Next-gen was broken from day one (xbox series s, in my case). It took months to get it to a reliable state. T-posing, broken missions, broken driving, terrible draw distance, progress resets, crowd/npc behavior. (Remember when it took them over a year to figure out how to make crowds behave realistically when a gun fight breaks out. Even then, most of them just dropped into a grab position with their hands above their hands, hiding behind nothing.) Even if we forget all of that, there's still the frequent crashing, with no rhyme or reason. You never knew what was going to cause it, and it was months before it was mostly reliable.

It deserved the hate.

https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/articles/03daxuxcE5t7NHYGJwO1AyQ-2.fit_lim.size_768x.jpg

dorkian-gray, (edited )

I missed your comment before mine, but this tracks with my experience. Thinking about it I did a stealth fists playthrough, with stealth being all about avoiding combat where possible... I thought I was just bad at the game, but maybe it was my inner reviewer telling me combat is not a fun way to play the game 😂

MudMan,
MudMan avatar

I'm old enough now that I accept it's fine to switch difficulty to be trivial in games where combat is not the point.

To be clear, combat in CP is still better than Witcher 3 combat, especially at launch of that game, but it's also not why I'm there. I'm there for the exquisitely rendered Keanu and the extremely granular, detailed story beats with unexpectedly affecting writing.

Aloomineum,

"(still better than day one Skyrim.)"

I'm glad you mentioned this because I almost never see anyone make the comparison, and skyrim didn't get nearly as much hate despite that fact. I remember if you were playing on PS3, walking into water would crash your game, and it was like this for the entire first year of the game on PS3. It also had a problem where save files that were too big would guarantee save file corruption. It was the definition of unplayable for lots of people.

Not saying cyberpunk is better than skyrim, just explaining how dire the launch for skyrim was, many people have forgotten just how rough around the edges skyrim was.

Goronmon,

You did get screwed if you tried to play Skyrim on the PS3. The hardware limitations on the console caused obvious instability in the game that I don't think they ever fully resolved.

But I don't think most people played Skyrim on PS3 so they aren't going to have that same experience. I know I didn't.

Exit2Nexus,

The hardware limitations on the console caused obvious instability in the game that I don't think they ever fully resolved.

Except they released the game, in "enhanced" version, on the Switch, which is just old android phone hardware from several years back. The PS3 was totally capable of running it. The port simply failed - time constraint, investor pressures...doesn't matter. They chose to not make it better in the end when the hardware was perfectly capable of running the game.

But I don't think most people played Skyrim on PS3 so they aren't going to have that same experience. I know I didn't.

The number of people that play a game on console is vastly underestimated by pc-primary gamers when previous titles by a developer were PC only. Skyrim on console was big. Big enough that they decided to port it to everything they could. You don't waste that kind of developer time and not expect a return...

Goronmon,

Except they released the game, in "enhanced" version, on the Switch, which is just old android phone hardware from several years back.

Specifics matter in this case.

My quick review of specs shows the Switch having a 4GB of RAM to work with. Not a lot, but enough that even with the OS, you shouldn't run into too many problems.

The PS3 had 512MB of RAM. But actually, 256MB was dedicated to video, so it only had 256MB for the game itself. Oh, and the OS used a chunk of that. So, the PS3 has less than 256MB of RAM that is usable by the game. And that's where you are running into issues, especially in a game like Skyrim that is heavily reliant on memory for the amount of state the game tries to keep track of.

MudMan,
MudMan avatar

The point is a bit moot, in that TES got big on consoles as soon as Morrowind. Oblivion was already a console headliner.

I do think fewer people went with the PS3 version because people knew it was broken, just like Bayonetta or Red Dead Redemption. I would bet it still outsold the PC version at the time (that balance may have shifted over the years of re-releases and giveaways).

Hyperreality,

New Vegas and Fallout 3 were borderline unplayable on PS3 when they launched too.

Old timers keep warning people not to buy on launch. But every time a 'big' game comes along, there are a lot of people who ignore the warnings and do it anyway.

Witcher 3 was the same. Roach(horse) on a roof was a meme at one point. But CDPR wasn't as famous then, so far less people played that on launch.

Oh, and while we're at it, Witcher 3 isn't a true RPG either. Cyberpunk is quite a lot like Witcher 3 IMHO.

MudMan,
MudMan avatar

How quickly we forget that the Witcher superfans were absolutely livid about CDPR having dumbed down the potion system. I mean, I disagreed then and I disagree now, but "they dumbed it down for consoles" was a bit of a talking point at the time.

Now, the atrocious input lag and having to shimmy for five minutes to pick up a thing werre always bad, and they aren't even great after their passive-aggressive option to make it slightly better under objection.

Still, I do think Witcher 3 is the better game, I was just suprised to find out how many of its strong points do carry over to CP after hearing all the online rage at launch.

MudMan,
MudMan avatar

People tend to forget how broken games were at launch once they're no longer broken, which is why these days you only get broken games.

I think studios need to reassess what is a showstopping bug these days, because restricting it to hard blockers is no longer enough, but that may require people having a different perspective on these things.

But yeah "the game will eventually get into an endless crash loop if you play too much of it" is a pretty high bar to meet in terms of launching a broken game, and since I did play Skyrim on PS3 first, I may have a bettter memory of it than others.

Itty53,
Itty53 avatar

I think there's definitely some room for interpretation here, some games suffer from basically being brigaded, and this OP actually points that out. Some games are cool to hate. CP2077 was one of those. Skyrim wasn't. People forgave it for a lot because it wasn't cool to hate.

Look at Horizon Zero Dawn. Same story. That game has incredible game play, some of the most creative and new ways to do it. But certain people - ahem - brigaded reviews and made it cool to hate. Which sucks because that game has an amazingly unique combat system. Really nailed an action based trapping and hunting instead of just overwhelming force or stealth.

Conversely people adored MGS5 and to be completely honest it was generic at best. Go figure it featured a hot naked woman with jiggle physics who couldn't speak and would die if she put clothes on.

MudMan,
MudMan avatar

Wait, did they brigade Zero Dawn? I mean, my impression of it is that they're cursed as a franchise with the worst possible timing, having released against genre-defining competitors two out of two times. If anything the impression I get from people is that it's the "deserved better" franchise.

geoffervescent, (edited )
geoffervescent avatar

Mostly because Skyrim was still delivering a novel gaming experience of being able to explore for 100s to 1000s of hours without repetition. Despite the bugs it was first to market in an era where WoW and multiplayer was the premiere gaming experience. By the time Cyberpunk hit shelves the format was old news in the sense that we already had "open world explore this map for your entire jaded teenage years" maps for genres from viking to western to future dystopia.

Aside: There is a reason HBO could only reboot Westworld in 2016 and the concept was already stale again by 2018, it would have been unthinkably dumb to try it in, say, 2006.

Maybe without Fallout 4, Half-life 2±, Bioshock 3, and so on, the future dystopia thirst would have won out, but when you put all these options on the same steam library which one do people want to spend their time in?

stopthatgirl7, in Microsoft would buy Valve 'if opportunity arises,' said Phil Spencer in leaked email
stopthatgirl7 avatar

Microsoft wanting to buy Valve and Nintendo should tell you just how much what they really want is a monopoly on gaming.

Whirlybird,

They all want a monopoly, not just Microsoft. Microsoft are just the only ones that could afford it.

stopthatgirl7,
stopthatgirl7 avatar

Trudat

jeebus,
jeebus avatar

If Microsoft loves anything, it's monopolies.

_jonatan_, in Alternative sources for the No Pronouns mod for Starfield

Truly a pathetic mod for pathetic people

firebreathingbunny,

Why do you care? How does it affect you? Do you comment on every mod that doesn't appeal to you and that you don't intend to use?

Poopfeast420,
Poopfeast420 avatar

If that's your argument, why do you care about the choice of pronouns? How does it affect you?

firebreathingbunny,

It's not an argument. It's a series of questions that you failed to answer.

blunderworld,

Same arguments people use when pronouns are important to them. Guess were not so different after all!

firebreathingbunny,

It's not the same argument because I have answers for the personal pronoun pushers but you people have no answers for me.

thatsTheCatch, (edited ) in Anita Sarkeesian is shutting down Feminist Frequency after 15 years

When I was young and dumb, I followed the anti-feminist YouTubers that used Anita Sarkeesian as their punching bag. I loved video games and bought into their idea that she was trying to ruin them. Now that I’m older and wiser, I can see that that was a load of baloney. I watched the original Tropes vs. Women in Videogames series and it was very level-headed and rational. There were a few things that the anti-feminist YouTubers said “well what about this???” and Anita actually covered that in the video but the YouTubers cherry picked and didn’t show the response. Anita has done a lot of good and has had so much hate and harassment that I feel she deserves a break.

ripcord, (edited )
ripcord avatar

The ratio of downvoted you got is...interesting.

I wonder what u/KalChoedan, /u/PizzaFeet, /u/Phrodo_00 and others dont like about your comment.

Edit:. At the time, upvotes:downvoted was nearly 1:1

captainlezbian,

Good job with the personal growth

Rodsterlings_cig, in Disco Elysium for $12 may be the best $12 you ever spend on games in your life

A friendly reminder that the creators in the past have asked those interested in the game to pirate it instead, though of course I do not endorse such activities.

Onii-Chan,
Onii-Chan avatar

Gotcha. I'm definitely not about to fire up qBittorrent right now and use it, because that would be illegal.

Rodsterlings_cig, (edited )

I would also definitely not seed anything as well, especially when utilizing a VPN.

Edit: word

Clone_IX, in Blizzard may ban you for using simple mods in Diablo 4

Make an offline version where I can mod.

Or - even better - make a good game that does not rely on microtransaction bullshit.

ampersandrew,
ampersandrew avatar

It already doesn't rely on microtransactions. They sold over 10 million copies. It just has microtransactions anyway.

CIWS-30,

At the $70 minimum too, if I remember right. Deluxe editions, etc. were even pricier.

CosmicApe, in Which cutscene is and will forever be burned into your memory?
CosmicApe avatar

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong."

thingsiplay,
thingsiplay avatar

@CosmicApe Offtopic: I have no idea what game this is, but this is (not literally) what Light Yagami said in Death Note, when he got the book and transformed into Kira.

hetscop,
hetscop avatar

It's from Mass Effect, this is the character Mordin Solus catchphrase. CosmicApe is almost certainly refering to a (very good) cutsceen from one of the possible endings to the Tuchanka chain of missions in ME3.

sadbehr,
@sadbehr@lemmy.nz avatar

Is this from the scene where Mordin is up in the tower?

CosmicApe,
CosmicApe avatar

That's the one

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