Hey #xmpp folks, is Prosody still the easiest way to self-host a server?
Please, please, please say it isn't
EDIT: use case is I have an Ubuntu box from Hetzner hosting some websites and (soon) a nextcloud, this is what I had set up on my last dedicated server (except owncloud back then) and the new box has Plesk on it and after just a couple of weeks of pressing buttons in Plesk and having it Do It All For Me I've been completely spoiled
EDIT 2: the root of the issue is that Plesk hides your .cert and .key files. Scrambles their names, removes their extensions and dumps them all under /opt/psa/certificates/ not even in different folders for different domains, you'd expect mydomain.com.cert but instead you get scfLios3a, all mixed up in a bucket with the eggs on top, good luck telling Prosody where to look for those buggers
First off, @evan sees this from the perspective of someone who's co-authored #ActivityPub. It's his job to spur and enable adoption -- and that's something he's done exceptionally well for 20 years. Of course he wants to help Meta abide by open standards. Which, even if you dislike Meta, you would hope they would do.
My perspective is as one who is building products that compete with Meta. Ideally, I would like people who use Meta to migrate away from there and instead use #Calckey, #GreatApe, and the numerous options available on #SpaceHost.
But even from the perspective of a competitor, I want interoperability with #Barcelona. And even more, I want interoperability based on open standards.
Yes, yes, yes -- "embrace, extend, extinguish". At this point, that phrase is a broken record.
But every time that phrase comes up, I keep asking folks: when has the "extinguish" part of "embrace, extend, extinguish" ever worked?
People say #RSS, but RSS is still here and I use it every day. Hell, Calckey even has an RSS widget and it works like a charm. RSS is not extinguished.
People also say #XMPP, but I can run an XMPP server right now -- no problems. People say XMPP "died" because it's no longer as popular now, but is it because Meta and Google dropped support, or is it because Slack, Discord, Signal, WhatsApp, and even Matrix have come along to eclipse it in popularity? Regardless, even if XMPP is no longer so popular, it's not extinguished.
The most ludicrous example of "extinguish" people bring up is Gmail's dominance of email. But email is the most popular communications technology we have today, even though it's 50 years old. What's more, look at the raw stats. Gmail is only 18% of the email server market -- that's no monopoly. Go have a look at the stats for yourselves:
The pessimistic notion that we will "lose" by allowing Meta to interoperate with ActivityPub -- again, an open standard -- just doesn't convince me. In fact, if Meta is adopting standard ActivityPub, I think "losing" is impossible.
With Meta adopting ActivityPub, we're not losing. We're winning. We're not conceding to Meta by adopting their proprietary APIs for interoperability. They're conceding to us by adopting ActivityPub.
Again, I'm not saying you should all federate with #Barcelona. I'm saying that Meta adopting an open standard that allows for interoperability is a win because, remember, they're adopting our standard. We're not adopting theirs.
Some also ask, "But what if Meta does a bait-and-switch and drops ActivityPub support?"
Well, there's kind of precedence for that.
Not enough people realize this, but Google once adopted the predecessor of ActivityPub. Specifically, they used OStatus for Google Buzz. Certainly, like many Google products, Google Buzz shuttered.
But the development for an open social media protocol lived on, and we all use what was developed right now.
No doubt, if Barcelona becomes Meta's Google Buzz, ActivityPub will live on. It will still be developed. We'll keep using it.
In the meantime, I'll consider ways to help Meta users migrate to platforms that I believe are better.
honestly while we’re at it, let’s just revive #XMPP too, why shouldn’t we? because that’s the thing about free software, isn’t it? you can’t kill it. it’s literally not possible as long as the code is still available somewhere.
so bringing THAT back at the same time as they try to repeat their strategy, that would really drive the point home, wouldn’t it?
so, who here knows any good XMPP servers? or is the kind of person who can just set one up on a whim?
Those who were scandalised by @element selling encrypted @matrix communications services to cops, and suggesting XMPP as a replacement, you might be interested to know that...
"Conversations_im seems to be doing its job at the German Federal Police."
Hey @xmpp folks, if I was to encourage the devs of a messaging server/client written in Rust to implement XMPP, with MUC and OMEMO, what would be the best links to send them for guidance?
@fdroidorg doesn't have these problems, and they additionally rebuild from source, supporting reproducible builds (so unlike the Play store, you know the published source code matches what's in the app you download). With their recent enhancements (https://f-droid.org/2024/02/01/twif.html ) I'll be recommending it to more people.
Showing how many non-federated, proprietary, privacy-invasive applications use #XMPP behind the scenes is not the hot take you think it is, unless that's the kind of vision you have for the #Fediverse' future, too.
Just for the record: what Google/FB did to #XMPP was not 'embrace, extend, extinguish'. I bring this up because people are focusing on FB developing a divergent protocol/extensions. Maybe that's a valid concern, but it's unrelated to XMPP.
While Google Talk was actively developed, Google folk actively participated in the community. In fact they contributed important extensions such as Jingle, the protocol we still use today for audio/video calls in XMPP, and other bits and pieces.
Have you convinced a full normie to #XMPP? How has it gone? Were there any problems or need of being help desk? Why is "ok" Monal the best client for iOS?
I'm still thinking about #Matrix and #XMPP. I like both, but it makes me sad how XMPP is so undersupported. It seems like it would be less complex and more efficient. But maybe I'm wrong.
My issues with #xmpp, and why I still currently prefer #matrix:
It's XML everywhere
The session-management system is inferior to what matrix has with session ids and security keys
The closest you can get to a web client is ConverseJS, which is really underwhelming, especially since it uses bootstrap (the css framework) and doesn't even support dark theme :(
XMPP has already fallen of a cliff in terms of popularity, and it's only getting worse, meanwhile matrix is thriving.
So, picture this: I'm just chilling, minding my own business, when suddenly a message pops up on my screen.
It's short and sweet, just four letters: "XMPP."
Now, I don't know about you, but receiving a cryptic message like that can make anyone's imagination run wild.
But fear not, for I have deciphered the mysterious code! It turns out that "XMPP" stands for something really cool: the Extensible Messaging and Presence Protocol. It's like the James Bond of messaging protocols, still alive and kicking, despite the ever-changing landscape of digital communication.
You see, this little gem called #XMPP is the backbone of Mov.im, a platform that knows how to party with federation. It also has integration with Friendica, which, by the way, is a social networking platform that has its own fancy tricks up its sleeve.
Now, what makes XMPP so special, you ask? Well, it has outlived some of the legendary messengers of the past—AIM, YIM, and even the mighty MSN Messenger.
Can you believe it? It's like the XMPP protocol is the ageless wonder of the digital realm, defying the odds and keeping us connected through the ages.
But wait, there's more! I have a secret wish, a burning desire in my heart. I hope that another protocol called #ActivityPub follows in XMPP's footsteps and persists for as long as it does. Imagine the possibilities!
XMPP 1.0 is now 19-years-old. I hope ActivityPub has that kind of longevity. Now, wouldn't that be downright awesome?
Maybe one day we'll be raising our digital glasses to toast the longevity of ActivityPub too. Until then, let's keep chatting, federating, and laughing together, one message at a time. Cheers to the protocols that stand the test of time!
I'm not sure if I buy the whole #meta#facebook killed #xmpp. I've seen several services, with large user bases, using xmpp, or some abstraction of the same protocol. I don't think the concerns are invalid, I just think there's a bit more to it.
I'm using Prosody+ConverseJS to add some chatting capabilities to #peertube (streaming software)
For such streaming platforms, there is a very useful feature, called the "Slow Mode". As far as i know, there is no XEP to describe this feature. So… I made a draft.
This is not submitted yet. As it is my first one, i'd like to have some people to have a look, and tell me if there are mispelling, misconception, or things to clarify.
One of the big things @Gargron talks about in this interview is his experience with #XMPP and whether or not the embrace, extend, extinguish playbook would work in the #fediverse. This discussion happens at minute 41
New #ejabberd problem: I keep getting Invalid value for option 'sql_username': ejabberd with the below configuration. I’ve also tried having the sql_* options at the top level rather than under host_config, but I don’t see any difference in behavior. I’m using version 18.12.1 with erlang-p1-pgsql 1.1.6.