The more I'm trying to understand the call to block #Meta's #P92#Threads, the less sense I think it makes. Let's see some of the arguments:
"Meta is evil": Yes they are. Don't sign up to their new service. I don't think all of their users are evil though. I still have my facebook account.
"There are privacy concerns". Yes there are - for their users, not ours. For us, as admins of communities that are willingly federated, what are the privacy concerns? Most of the stuff we do is public anyway. We're federated to hundreds/thousands of servers. Do we know who owns each of them, and what they do with whatever data they get from us? If you think there are privacy dangers from federating with servers that you don't know what they do with their data, then we should defederate from everyone we're not 100% sure about - so basically from everyone. Saying that federating with a Meta server is dangerous is like saying that an open federation was a bad idea all along.
"We have to protect our users". From what? I get defederating from nazi servers, and then we are actually protecting users. If Meta doesn't completely screw up moderation, I don't think we can seriously claim that interaction with Meta users in general will be abusive and harmful. If your users don't want any interaction with Meta users, they can block them at user level.
"We have to protect the Fediverse". From what? From being an open space for communication? From not being a walled garden? By pushing people to actually use Meta's platform, if they want to communicate with other Meta users? Do you realize that the biggest obstacle for mass adoption is that most users need social media to communicate with their friends, and if they can't do it from fedi, then they'll stick with Twitter or Meta? And if you don't want "mass adoption", then what are you even doing using an open protocol? Just set up a defederated instance or forum. I use an open protocol because I want users of the platform I provide to be able to communicate with more people on other platforms. I don't have to agree with the other platforms on everything - if we did, we'd just make one platform instead of thousands of different ones. I'll use fediblock to protect users from abuse and harassment, not from communicating with whoever decides to use a "free" platform (and "pay" by viewing ads and giving up their privacy). I think they're getting ripped off, but hey, it's their choice. It's definitely not the same as being a nazi.
"We have to stop Meta's plans". Sorry to break it to you buddy, but you can't do that by blocking them. ActivityPub is an open protocol and they have every right to use it. They will attract users for a number of reasons: They'll have celebrities on board, they have the money to provide a smooth service, and they can provide communication with their already enormous userbase on Facebook and Instagram - and with the fedi servers that will choose to federate with them. If you think that the current active fedi userbase of a few million people worldwide is such a selling point for Meta... it's not. It's not what will convince people to sign up. If someone wants access to the fedi userbase, they can already do that by just signing up on a Mastodon, Calckey etc server.
I'm all for blocking the new platform if it causes actual practical problems for us. But declaring you'll block them anyway because you don't like Meta (I don't like them either)... to be honest, this kinda feels like an admin power trip to me. It could be even perceived as an asshole move to your own users. You're not "protecting" them from Meta. If they want to be protected from Meta, they can just not sign up to Meta. If they don't want any communication with Meta users, they can block them on a user level.
I'll be discouraging anyone from using Meta's services, as I already do. But forbidding fedi users to interact with Meta users is not the same thing.
I will try to reintroduce them to the #Fediverse, but this time promote #Misskey & #Calckey as viable options.
I believe the window of opportunity for this will be short, as I assume (I have not evidence for this, so be skeptical) Threads will launch managed hosting options within months of entering the Fediverse.
@orthoheterodox1 With the amount of annoying screen shots to newsy events I see on my #Instagram page, I am very sure #Threads will be a hit. I plan on opening an account as well & promote posts from #Misskey & #Pixelfed.
@atomicpoet Yeah, I am highly suspicious of anything #Meta does nowadays. I think that is one of the reasons why they are building #Threads, as it is an attempt to regain trust with half of the planet who hates them.
I noticed that Threads also uses #Instagram as a login & not #Facebook (which probably shows how much people hate Facebook).
Last boost, WAY too many people seem to be freaking out about Meta's move, in a way that seems counter to why I like the Fedisphere.
Even if it was a Microsoft style, Embrace, Expand, Exterminate tactic, that would involve US moving to their servers, which... sorry ain’t happening.
Yes, we should look at what Meta is doing skeptically, but we should let them do it because damn it, if they implement correctly, it would also mean moving OUT of their environment is easier.
Open Data is a two way street, in AND out of a system.
If there is a threat to all the users of #Mastodon that would be posed by #Meta merely being in the #Fediverse, then what is protecting those users from the numerous unknown instances that are already here from doing whatever it is Meta is going to do?
The campaign to preemptively block #Threads seems to me to imply there is some fundamental architectural flaw in the #ActivityPub protocol that admins are currently relying on security by obscurity to mitigate. If so, then the actual problem is Mastodon itself, and federation should be abandoned entirely until this flaw can be corrected, rather than using band-aids like blocking one big instance and then relying on the goodwill of individual admins to keep the system safe.
Yet another question people are asking me: "How can I, a common person, help hasten the demise of #Meta through #ActivityPub?"
Again, I want to re-emphasize this. #Fediblock is not an all-purpose tool. It's useful as a hammer. But in this scenario, we don't just need a hammer. We need drills, pliers, saws, and blowtorches.
That said, we must protect communities that choose to defederate from Meta. Which means that if those servers don't want to receive messages from any Meta-owned services, we must not only be respectful of that, we should make damn sure that those servers are quarantined from Meta. So much of the success of fighting Meta will require safe spaces from Meta.
The next thing we need is lots and lots of nodes. Currently, we only have ~25,000 nodes on the Fediverse but we need more. Preferably, these nodes should be small, agile, and well-moderated. If you have the finances and/or skill to run a node, it's important that you do so. To compete with Meta, we need to build scale -- and the easiest way to build scale is by adding more nodes to the Fediverse.
What will also be key is lobby servers. These will be servers specifically set up for migrants from Meta-owned services to help onboard them towards the rest of the Fediverse. To run such a lobby server, they need to be welcoming, moderated well, and free of the elitists and gatekeepers that poison so much of the Fediverse currently.
How to get people from Meta to try out the rest of the Fediverse? We need people willing to be ambassadors on #P92 who are ready and willing to evangelize the rest of the Fediverse. Folks like @tchambers are very good at this on Twitter, and I have no doubt that we can do the same with P92. Except this time we'll have the benefit of federation already happening 😉
Now if there's one thing I've learned about the growth of the Fediverse it's that bad corporate decisions pay dividends. We've already experienced waves of migration from Tumblr, Twitter, and Reddit. And I have no doubt that it's only a matter of time before Meta makes another corporate mistake -- as they tend to do.
In which case, we need to strike fast. When another Cambridge Analytica happens, we need to remind everyone on Meta about the lobby servers that are on standby, and ready to take them on. Unlike previous migrations, let's not be unprepared for this. Let's be especially prepared since Meta plans to join the Fediverse.
Finally, we need more devs. Specifically, we need devs willing to build innovative server and client software that takes aim at Meta. And to do that, we need to support the devs that currently exist -- show evergreen devs pondering whether they should invest here that we, as a community, are appreciative of our current devs.
If you like #Mastodon, #Calckey, #Kbin, #Friendica, etc., it's important that you open up your hearts as well as your wallets and fund the next stage of Fediverse development.
This will take a lot of work. But if you want to fight Meta, challenge their dominance of social media, this is what must be done.
Personally, I'm hyped about the future of the Fediverse -- regardless of whether Meta eventually lives to tell the tale.
☝🏾 Encourage family & friends to embrace Threads
✌🏾 Interact with their Thread account with my #Misskey, #Mastodon & #Pixelfed accounts & build desire for the Fediverse proper platforms
🤟🏾 Help them migrate towards the greater Fediverse.
@jdp23 I am not sure where you are getting your info from, as #Instagram employees via leaks for weeks have made it clear that #Threads will communicate with #Mastodon, as well as other #ActivityPub apps.
Virtually every leak I have read implies Threads will be able to communicate with the #Fediverse. But I guess we will find out this month when it launches (I wonder if it will launch this week‽ Or maybe today‽)
@jdp23 From what I read, #Threads users will need an #Instagram account to login, but they will be able to communicate with the #Fediverse overall. I am not sure if they will be able to communicate with Instagram posts, but I would not be surprised if they could.
@jdp23 I think they will tolerate me doing this, as I already pay for #Instagram. My account has been a target for hacking for years, so having access to human tech support is critical.
But #Threads may not be thrilled with other people doing it. 😂
@jdp23 I think one of the reasons #Meta contacted #Fediverse admins was to see which instances #Threads should ban. Threads is going to be heavily moderated, & I would not doubt if they already have analyzed my solo instance.
I want to write about the whole #Facebook / #Meta / #Threads whatever-they-call-it but can't right now. Have the short version:
Meta already have the giant monolith sites - two of them - and the Federation is not big enough for them to bother taking over.
And most importantly, that's not where the money is. Any additional money from #Fediverse conquest is scratch marks to them. Not worth the accounting. It doesn't make sense.
The money, however, does exist - but in hosting, on the server side, not front-end shit.
Just like with the Exchange money, for Microsoft.
Microsoft keeps the servers going; the domain owners do the user administration and moderation.
Yeah, https://toot.works won't be blocking Meta just because it is Meta. Meta isn't Gab or Truth Social. I'm hoping that #Threads is a good gateway drug to hook people on the #Fediverse.
If Meta ever gives me a reason to block Threads, I will, though.
Alle sollten mal alle bedenken, dass Meta die ActivityPub-Unterstützung nicht öffentlich machen muss. Auch ist überhaupt nicht klar (?), wie der Support sein wird. Die Screenshots zeigen Threads mit Mentions zu und von mastodon.social.
Wahrscheinlich gibt es DIE #Threads-Instanz… die große Unbekannte ist, wie sich Threads bei Blocks und Deletes über ActivityPub verhält.
Und … der Senf von Aldi Nord ist auch nur Löwensenf. Also könnt ihr kaufen, ist lecker.
👉🏾 #Meta can/will use RSS, crawlers & “pings” to analyze our content, making FediBlocking useless
👉🏾 Engage friends, family, etcetera, who join #Threads (Instagram’s #ActivityPub powered proxy) from your #Misskey, #Mastodon, #WriteFreely, #Pixelfed, #WordPress, et al, accounts
👉🏾 If 10% of Fediverse is not on Zuckerverse, we can win
I've seen a lot of takes on #Meta and defederation, but I've only seen them in context of whether microblogging servers (masto et al) should federate or not. I've not seen any real discussion yet on the interaction between #Lemmy/#Kbin and #Threads.
Even though, I think this is where one of the real strength of the fediverse is: the ability to interact not only cross server, but also cross platform.
Remember when Meta literally broke the internet due to a BGP misconfiguration? And we all had a good laugh, and they were losing hundreds of millions of dollars every hour?
Anywho they don't need to run a server to get our data. That's all I'll say about that, for now.
The #fediverse exists as the antithesis to centralised networks. Which is why, IMHO, it is absolutely not needed to welcome #Meta#facebook. Fox, henhouse and stuff. If they want to implement some sort of gateway using #activitypub — let them build it. But we are under no obligation to help them. Or discuss with them under NDA. Simple. They are not friends or allies. They will extend, embrace, extinguish what we have under the disguise of cooperation should you help them.
@osma@jwildeboer Friends & family do not let friends & family wallow in the #Zuckerverse without a long, protracted fight! 😂🤣😂
I will type up a post on #WordPress & #WriteFreely on the steps I am actively taking to enlighten my friends & family about the #Fediverse, using #Instagram’s pending #Threads as a stepping stone to (re)introduce #ActivityPub to the people I care about.
I suspect (I sure damn hope) that a lot of instances will move to block pretty quickly when (not if!) Threads gets caught with data it should not be keeping, or using non-Threads data for advertising purposes, or something like that.
My position therefore is: give them a chance. Not the company; no fucking way. The people: for my (and others') friends and family, for government officials, and for various feeds and offices that publish important messages (weather alerts, travel delays, school closings, etc) on platforms like Twitter, #Facebook, and #Instagram, but don't here.
If you want to block #Threads, go for it. That's your loss. If you want to block anyone who interacts with Threads, I mean that's your right and all but that's an awful idea, because it'll probably split the Fediverse into two.
However: I want to know who signed the NDA. Those instances do need to be blocked or actioned against. Their admins cannot be trusted, if they're going to meet with #Meta (!!) and go "all is good"; there's no way all is good when you're talking about Meta.
The only way I'd trust Threads is if they publicly signed a legally binding contract that basically said, we're gonna follow your lead, we aren't going to interfere with development, and we're going to interoperate as well as is reasonable. That would allow them to be sued for breach of contract; although given the money they have, it would have to be an incredible amount, written in the contract, that would kill their business.
cc @stux (this would ping you if you weren't on mastodon)
boosts welcome, respectful disagreement also welcome