Gargron,
@Gargron@mastodon.social avatar

is testing federation for a few selected profiles. I'm now following @mosseri! It's one-way for now, but it's exciting. It's a step towards the interoperable social web that we've been advocating for 🙂

Gargron,
@Gargron@mastodon.social avatar

If you’ve got questions about what interoperability with means, we wrote this up back in July, and you can still refer to it:

https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/07/what-to-know-about-threads/

amdu_t,

@Gargron thank you for this. I’ve seen a lot of noise (and outrage!) today about how Meta will harvest user data from federated servers and insert advertising. I appreciate that you’ve addressed these points clearly in this blog for lay people like me to understand!

luiscarlosgonzalez,

@Gargron Eugen, I know I'm not the only one who believes that Threads will become the "MEGALOVANIA of the fediverse". If it happens billions (or milliards) of people will join. Gonna follow Mossery and even you on Threads. Also you can follow me on Threads @luiscgm20

Purple_Sky,
@Purple_Sky@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron

Sharing the same excitement! I've been waiting for this!!! I don't want to go back to Instagram but there are people I can bother on Threads 🤣 Yaaay!

Gargron,
@Gargron@mastodon.social avatar

Make no mistake, this is huge for Mastodon. Currently people have to choose between X, Mastodon, and Threads, and network effects play a dominant role in that choice. If we can say, you can access all the folks that went to Threads from a Mastodon account, that makes it a far more attractive option given all of its other perks 😉

rmishra,

@Gargron Do you still trust meta? Their only interest is to harvest & sell user data. I am really concerned about meta creeping into our privacy. Are there any checks in place to prevent data collection?

gimulnautti, (edited )
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@Gargron Ok. I’ll behave. You have to start with assuming good intentions.

If actual appears, where Threads users can find other ActivityPub users as easily as Threads users, and users aren’t made to jump through hoops to get followed in there, I’m all for it.

If doesn’t send in it’s goons and exercise it’s immense monetary might to take over nonprofits and boards that decide the future of the , I’m all for it.

Let’s see. 🕑

wpgne,
@wpgne@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron yes, I'd like to keep my home base here, but have access to the other platforms through the bridges. Hopefully, everyone behaves.

royalputhy,

@wpgne And even if they don’t, thankfully Mastodon’s moderation tools are really good. Especially compared to other platforms.

Unless there is mass unrest on the Threads side…

jamonbull,
@jamonbull@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron Very exciting! Will Threads folks be able to see it if we @ them?

anthracite,

@Gargron

Honestly Facebook has a lot to atone for before I will let them attempt to embrace and extend my corner of the Fediverse like they did RSS.

jraedisch,
@jraedisch@mastodon.social avatar

@anthracite @Gargron don’t know what they did to RSS, but agree to the rest.

wiredfire,
@wiredfire@mas.to avatar

@jraedisch @anthracite @Gargron they haven’t don’t anything to RSS, which is alive and well. They stopped support it themselves is all.

darnell,
@darnell@one.darnell.one avatar

@Gargron This is awesome! I was able to follow @mosseri from my , & accounts!

This is huge, especially when you consider many people, politicians & brands on will consider setting up their own instances under their own domain & connect with the rest of the !

Also with prominent sites using , we could see everyone from to the join the Fediverse (pending activation of the plugin).

ramsey,
@ramsey@phpc.social avatar

@darnell @Gargron How does it work? Is Threads only federating with certain servers. I’m unable to follow or view any profiles or posts on Threads from my Mastodon account.

darnell,
@darnell@one.darnell.one avatar

@ramsey @Gargron is only activating for select accounts like @mosseri for testing purposes. The rest are not active yet.

is doing something similar (see @mike & @espn).

ramsey,
@ramsey@phpc.social avatar

@darnell @Gargron That makes sense. Still doesn’t make sense why I can’t load those accounts through Mastodon or follow them, even though, clearly, others on my server were able to follow them.

DesRoin,
@DesRoin@geekdom.social avatar

@ramsey @darnell @Gargron
Maybe your instance admin is one of those who DNS blocked everything related to threads and therefor actively de-federated them?

ramsey,
@ramsey@phpc.social avatar

@DesRoin @darnell @Gargron I am the instance admin. 😁

hermannus,
@hermannus@stegodon.nl avatar

@Gargron FB mines data from others (related users) than specific users. Does the same apply to Threads vs Mastodon?

jake4480,
@jake4480@c.im avatar

@hermannus @Gargron THIS is the important question and the one I want an answer to, as well.

nemobis, (edited )
@nemobis@mamot.fr avatar

@hermannus Once they show fediverse profiles on the side, use to find out!
https://noyb.eu/en/access-your-data

I've just disabled "Show follows and followers on profile" in /settings/privacy.

andreagrandi,
@andreagrandi@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron this is a valid reason not to have a Threads account and just keep using Mastodon 🙂

haui,

@Gargron one thing that just comes to mind is zombie accounts.

Since and the other atrocities I have in corporations. This means if they do something like this, I assume malice.

Now I figured what could happen:

  • put ads in every 2nd post of to fedi federation
  • do federation only reading so you cant see threads posts on mastodon but both on threads = people leave
  • spam the fediverse with bot accounts that sway public opinion like facebook
gimulnautti,
@gimulnautti@mastodon.green avatar

@haui @Gargron not that I don’t agree with you on the assumption of corporate malice.

But if the threads instance starts behaving badly, your instance just defederates and you’re back to where you were.

devSJR,
@devSJR@fosstodon.org avatar

@Gargron I can relate to that. It is similar to "I can use LibreOffice but still interact with Microsoft Office".

jt_rebelo,

@devSJR all while MS tries its hardest to break Open Document implementation standards every day of the week and changes their proprietary file format standards as much as they can, as regularly as they can, in order for LibreOffice not to work properly with them. Hope I'm wrong, though I don't think I am.
@Gargron

devSJR,
@devSJR@fosstodon.org avatar

@jt_rebelo Yes, that may be. I can also remember the time when Document Foundation developed its open format, and a short time later Microsoft came around the corner with a supposedly open format and numerous binary blobs.
We know how history will turn out. And that is precisely what I want to say with my statement. We will see how it works.
The chance for a good interaction exists. And if not? So what, then we just decouple again.

gubi,
@gubi@sociale.network avatar

@Gargron freedom of choice is the key principle. I already blocked all Meta subnets on our pacifist mastodon instance because of the role of this company in promoting nationalism, white supremacism and even genocide in Burma, according to UN reports. I won’t block or silence communities who will act otherwise, and I hope that communities determined to keep evil companies outside of their door won’t be marginalized in the Fediverse, which is my greatest fear and an actual risk.

Firlefanz,
@Firlefanz@writing.exchange avatar

@Gargron

I just don't want Meta to scrape my posts and images that I put here.

I want nobody from Meta to read what I post here unless I choose to connect with them. And even then, I want to keep control. Which I doubt is possible.

Yes, I am on FB. But I do post very differently over there because I am aware of the total lack of privacy over there.

Same goes for Xitter.

kepic,

@Firlefanz @Gargron
What, exactly, is preventing someone from scraping your posts here right now? AFAIK public posts and comments here are just as public as anywhere on the Internet.

Firlefanz,
@Firlefanz@writing.exchange avatar

@kepic @Gargron

You know, the comments along these lines reek of white male privilege. You have nothing to fear.

You never had to think about protecting yourself. Not in the street, not in the dark, not on the internet. It shows.

I am taking steps to protect myself on the internet. Have you wondered why I use a stick horsie avatar and not a photo? Have you read about my experiences about being molested?

I find it at least problematic to invite a huge instance with little to no moderation.

kepic,

@Firlefanz @Gargron
I'm unsure what in my reply triggered this. I commented about scraping, not about any other aspect of Threads federation. I'm a bit uneasy about it myself.

As for the rest; I am indeed cis, but atypical enough in other ways that I have been afraid outside. I have been assaulted for these things.

No, I did not read your posts.

Sorry if I sound off, or too direct, or unfeeling. It's hard to fix that without outside help. I'm trying to learn how, but it's a process.

Firlefanz,
@Firlefanz@writing.exchange avatar

@kepic @Gargron

My apologies - I was triggered, yes. Blithely having fears disregarded is triggering. And you were the third person to tell me exactly this.

I mean, I know that everything can be scraped and run through a database. I have scraped data from Goodreads.

But maybe my worst fears have moved to losing the sense of safety I have here. I hide less on Mastodon. I don't want to be pushed back into it.

I'm sorry you got assaulted. May I offer a hug?

kepic,

@Firlefanz @Gargron
Hug received and given. 😊

Firlefanz,
@Firlefanz@writing.exchange avatar

@kepic

Thank you. ☺️

This is exactly why I love Mastodon. It IS possible to argue and then talk out what went wrong.

❤️

10volt,
@10volt@wetdry.world avatar

@Firlefanz @Gargron your pots are publicly available, assume anyone will see and read them

Firlefanz,
@Firlefanz@writing.exchange avatar

@10volt @Gargron

They are for now.

Right now, I trust the fediverse. Being here has been a good experience. I'm not censoring myself here as much as I do in other places.

I do not want that to change. I've seen the attacks on people that happen elsewhere.

Allowing such attackers to the fediverse will result in myself self-censoring. That grates after having the freedom to be myself here.

18+ Starfia,
@Starfia@mastodon.social avatar

@Firlefanz

Hannah – is that something to work on? What do you mean by "attack" or "attacker"?

(I've been on Facebook and Twitter for a decade each, if that's any consolation.)

Firlefanz,
@Firlefanz@writing.exchange avatar

@Starfia

Eh. Nothing to work on.

I know who I am, I have been molested more than once in real life, a few times online, not something I want to repeat. Guess why I use a stick-horsie as avatar?

I don't open myself up to that on FB, I left Xitter because I don't tolerate Nazis. I really, really would like to keep Mastodon a safe space.

dogzilla,
@dogzilla@metrobus.masto.host avatar

@Firlefanz @Gargron Can’t you just block all of Meta for your account(s)? Wouldn’t that make you effectively invisible to them?

Although I gotta tell you - if I was training an AI and wanted access to Mastodon data (not sure why given the dataset is so tiny compared to every other social media but whatever), I’d simply spin up a Mastodon instance and grab from there. Anything you post on the internet anywhere is, well, on the internet. It’s public.

Firlefanz,
@Firlefanz@writing.exchange avatar

@dogzilla @Gargron

Maybe so.

But I have picked certain privacy settings here on Mastodon. I haven't allowed searching of my posts, for example. I at least want to be able to choose, you know.

And yeah, I can probably block all of Meta. That's my plan so far.

Sonnenbrand,
@Sonnenbrand@digitalcourage.social avatar

@Gargron Threads' still not globally available

wiredfire,
@wiredfire@mas.to avatar

@Sonnenbrand @Gargron indeed as their data handling doesn’t comply with EU rules.

This would at least be something of a workaround for EU folk to follow Threads users (setting aside the concerns over Threads data handling for a moment)

zav_,

@Gargron My main reason why I am excited for this is that I will be able to browse threads trouh a third party Mastodon client 🙏

dmian,
@dmian@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron I hope they don't drop this support later when they see the content they're linking with is useless for their business. But it's a good way to introduce people to the fediverse. I think a lot of people are scared of it. This may make them used to it. Let's hope it's positive for everybody, and not just Meta.

ayo,
@ayo@ayco.io avatar

@Gargron I agree here 💯

lrreynolds,
@lrreynolds@mstdn.social avatar

@Gargron i would agree ASSUMING they actually follow thru and allow full access to thier network. Honestly I doubt they will… Read only access for a handful of accounts is not going to help much and i for one don’t trust Zuck.

hunkabilly,
@hunkabilly@mas.to avatar

@Gargron for all of us that leveraged the bird.makeup hack, to remain connected with the holdouts, do you anticipate anyone building a mapping utility that might permit Mastodon users to follow those :twitter: holdouts that finally made the move to :mastodon: or 🧵 ?

lesblazemore,
@lesblazemore@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron they make money from ads, while you deliver web services for free? seems odd doesn't it?

I think what's needed is a 3rd-party app for Mastodon that does have ads, people will use it.

If done right some of that money can pay for Mastodon's costs.

People like ads, I've decided. Weird but I'm pretty sure about it.

11thJeff,

@Gargron I really want to quote-tweet this sockless wonder. Please???
https://www.threads.net/@mosseri/post/C01zMgWp4V-

helpstopcapitalism,
Ulrich_the_Elder,
@Ulrich_the_Elder@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron I know who owns threads and this is all I need to know. I do not want to engage with them in any fashion. If I cannot block their interaction with mastodon I guess I will be leaving mastodon as well. If I wanted to interact with threads, facebook, meta, truth social, or any other fascist social media site I would join those sites. I am here because I do not want to be there.

feditips,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@Gargron

This is really disappointing, Eugen.

Meta's track record on human rights is so terrible, Amnesty International issued a report about their involvement in genocide:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/documents/ASA16/5933/2022/en/

This is the kind of company you're excited about working with?

There is zero chance Meta is genuinely interested in interoperability, they just want to take over control of whatever community the Fediverse has built up. As Meta's CEO said, people who trust him are "stupid f**ks".

mjf_pro,
@mjf_pro@hachyderm.io avatar

@feditips @Gargron Threads is going to lay in ActivityPub support whether we like it or not, because the EU won’t let them stay in business there if they don’t. That ship has sailed; nothing we do here can change that.

What instance admins can do here is block Threads. If they do, they’d also block Threads users from…easily moving to their friendly neighborhood Mastodon host.

Who would that help, and more importantly, who would that hurt?

feditips,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@mjf_pro @Gargron

"they’d also block Threads users from…easily moving to their friendly neighborhood Mastodon host. "

No.

There is no account migration system on Threads.

You cannot move your account from Threads to Mastodon.

mjf_pro,
@mjf_pro@hachyderm.io avatar

@feditips @Gargron Yet. New things get rolled into old things in stages, that’s just normal IT development cadence. The whole point of the APub deal with the EU was that antitrust claims would be set aside if Meta tears down their walls and lets their users exit with their social graph. If they don’t fulfill that part of the bargain, they lose their ability to operate in the EU, yes?

feditips,
@feditips@mstdn.social avatar

@mjf_pro @Gargron

Meta will do the minimum amount needed, sabotage it, drag their heels and not apply it outside the EU.

There is not even an EU law yet, and Meta will do nothing until there is and until it is enforced, if it ever is.

There is no reason to trust Meta at all, they have done the most awful things:

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/press-releases/ethiopia-facebook-algorithms-contributed-human-rights-abuses-against-tigrayans

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/06/rohingya-sue-facebook-myanmar-genocide-us-uk-legal-action-social-media-violence

jr,
@jr@social.anoxinon.de avatar

@mjf_pro @feditips @Gargron there is an activity pub deal between the EU and meta?

jepyang,
@jepyang@wandering.shop avatar

@mjf_pro So to answer your question: if mastodon admins block people from migrating from Threads to their Masto instance, who is harmed?

Nobody.

Their ability to migrate from Threads is unaffected by the decision of a Masto admin blocking Threads.

A purely speculative future scenario where a migration feature is added to Threads is not relevant. It doesn’t exist.

bitflipped,
@bitflipped@mastodon.world avatar

@feditips @Gargron this article kinda shoots down the idea that they want to be part of something bigger as well...

https://www.theverge.com/2023/10/27/23935436/meta-threads-platform-online-public-conversations

markhurst,
@markhurst@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips @Gargron see also my latest column, "Instagram's unmentionable problem":
https://creativegood.com/blog/23/instagrams-unmentionable-problem.html

angdraug,
@angdraug@mastodon.social avatar

@feditips @Gargron Still true: "#Facebook has grown large enough to be fundamentally unable to control a broad range of abuse on its platform. Facebook’s profitability comes from externalizing the cost of consequences of that abuse to the entire world." https://circle.lt/post/20201117-breaking-up-facebook/

Stop helping #FB* externalize its costs while corrupting and absorbing the few spaces still out of reach of the big tech.

afrangry,

@Gargron I think this is great. This is what fediverse is about: federating instances. Worst case is that we have a big new shitty instance, so we have everything to win and nothing to lose.

mike,
@mike@flipboard.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri Welcome Adam! Great to have you here!

wjmaggos,
@wjmaggos@liberal.city avatar

@mike @Gargron @mosseri

I heard they can't see us yet.

mike,
@mike@flipboard.social avatar

@wjmaggos @Gargron @mosseri Are these threads voices in the room with us now? :-)

goldeee13,
@goldeee13@mas.to avatar

@Gargron Will "Block domain" work to block threads so the onus is on users instead of instance admins?

wendinoakland,
@wendinoakland@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron As federation approaches actuality, I’m feeling more nervous and skeptical that there will be any way to protect ourselves from an onslaught of commercialization and or bot-filled infiltration. Maybe paranoia, but it’s concerning.

parrotcyder,

@Gargron @mosseri defederate zuck

Sarahp,
@Sarahp@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron curious what are the select profiles? besides mosseri. How do we find them?

ironicsans,
@ironicsans@mastodon.social avatar

@Sarahp @Gargron Looks like @christophersu and @0xjessel may be the only others.

Sarahp,
@Sarahp@mastodon.social avatar

@ironicsans @Gargron @christophersu @0xjessel ah thanks!

stefan,
@stefan@gardenstate.social avatar

@Sarahp @Gargron if you search for "@threads.net" you find a bunch of them.

stefan,
@stefan@gardenstate.social avatar

@Sarahp @Gargron and by "a bunch" I guess I mean 3.

cliffwade,
@cliffwade@allthingstech.social avatar

@Sarahp @Gargron Just search for Threads.net and you'll see the three accounts that have been granted access at this time.

renchap,
@renchap@oisaur.com avatar

@Sarahp We are only aware if this one and 2 engineers for now. This question is for the Threads team to answer, as it depends on them.

@Gargron

Sarahp,
@Sarahp@mastodon.social avatar

@renchap which engineers?

Sarahp,
@Sarahp@mastodon.social avatar

@renchap oh nm, found them!

cedric,

@Gargron

Meta wants to monopolise all communication media, telephony, IM, the lot.

anubis2814,

@cedric @Gargron If it doesn't mean losing any of their friends, more will likely move over to the fediverse. Twitter API used to make it possible to mirror your account to Twitter and back and no one viewed that as a sell out move

gerowen,
@gerowen@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri That's cool. I can't see any of their posts, but it'll be cool to see when it actually rolls out.

anarchosynthism,

@Gargron @mosseri Why is m.soc federating with an instance which hosts Libs of TikTok and Gays against Groomers? This seems like a double standard.

TeflonTrout,
@TeflonTrout@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri https://mastodon.ie/

Nope. Not a fan. I don't want the kind of people that support whatever makes money to have a toehold here.

felface,

@Gargron @mosseri wait it’s only one way? Hopefully they fix that pretty soon or they’ll have proved what everyone was saying pretty quickly

Bam,
@Bam@sfba.social avatar

@felface @Gargron @mosseri

They’ve explained that it is one way for now and that they are fully intending to allow full interaction over time. They’re trying to get it right.

felface,

@Bam @Gargron @mosseri fair enough, I’ll guess we’ll have to wait and see, this could be huge or it could be awful

Bam,
@Bam@sfba.social avatar

@felface @Gargron @mosseri

You always have the option of muting or blocking the instance, just like you do with any other instance. Personally, I’m excited to follow and interact with the people I want to from here in a client and using a platform I love, without having to head “over there.”

felface,

@Bam @Gargron @mosseri 💯 the benefits are massive but I’m just very skeptical of FB

Bam,
@Bam@sfba.social avatar

@felface @Gargron @mosseri

Totally get it. But if it helps, I think Meta sees a few things going on. 1) decentralization is the future and they know the walled gardens are going to come down, so they are betting on making their clients and algos a way that most people will want to introduce and participate in that. They aren’t after those of us here to avoid that. 2) I love Mastodon but it’s not the big fish. But WordPress is huge for them. And giving creators the ability to interact with followers from Wordpress is a big deal. 3) Threads could also be a test for opening IG to AP and giving their creators there, who are truly committed to that platform, greater reach (something Tik Tok, for example, doesn’t have).

Lpm1,
@Lpm1@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri Nope, nope, nope. I have an Instagram account and often get bombarded with Threads — see who you know etc. crap from there. I refuse to download it!!!

juuhaa,
@juuhaa@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri

Is it enough to block from your account to do this:

  1. Open that profile.
  2. Block domain.
vruz,
@vruz@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri

We don't need to inter-operate with the antisocial web that harbours fascists.

kobaltauge,
@kobaltauge@social.tchncs.de avatar

@Gargron @FabianLaasch

He points in his Bio still to his Twitter Account. I'm not sure if he really uses Social media. 😁

spitfire,
@spitfire@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron @stroughtonsmith I can see @0xjessel too

jones,
@jones@puntarella.party avatar

@Gargron @mosseri

fuck you.

jones,
@jones@puntarella.party avatar

@Gargron

Meta is going to do embrace, extend and extinguish on ActivityPub (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish) as they did with XMPP.
It would be nice if you implemented a way to easily block them into Mastodon admin interface, but it's also evident you won't, last but not least because of what you've written in the first post of this thread, and the fact you mentioned @mosseri in it.

So we need, in spite of you, to share knowledge on how to do that other ways on any already ActivityPub federated platform (Mastodon, Pleroma, Pixelfed, PeerTube and so on).

CC: @vantablack @FediPact --- @cwebber @evan (the latter 2 contributed defining the ActivityPub protocol)

fubaroque,
@fubaroque@mastodon.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri Right, thanks for the heads up. Blocked the whole threads.net server straight away. 🤭

HistoPol,
@HistoPol@mastodon.social avatar

@smallsco

Can you see anything of this Federated test account, Scott?

My block of instances seems to work. 😀

https://mastodon.social/@Cdespinosa/111575559190736599

TildeGartenzaun,
@TildeGartenzaun@mastodon.social avatar
Raccoon,
@Raccoon@techhub.social avatar

@Gargron @mosseri
I don't like how it's only one way. This feels more like them advertising by setting up the equivalent of a Twitter relay, rather than actually federating.

Still going to set up an account there, just so I can have a presence if it does take off, but really, I'm all in on Fediverse at this point.

mpjgregoire,
@mpjgregoire@cosocial.ca avatar

@Gargron @mosseri
> a few selected profiles

Is there a list somewhere of profiles on that the public can access using ?

rdr,

@Gargron your gay

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