This is the line that gets passed around among the pro-federation-with-Facebook crowd, that #Fedipact is a violation of individual choice. That's bullshit. Not only are people still free to exercise their agency by switching instances, it's a goddamn lie to say that admins are joining the pact without input from their users or even against their wishes.
You are all fearmongering about being forced to switch instances. Yeah it's a PITA but you're not being violated. Like come the fuck on. Argue in good faith for a change!
And fashjacketing people whose PRIMARY concern is that Facebook does not moderate hate speech is offensive bullshit. None of your excuses make that particular lie remotely OK.
#StrawMan: nobody claimed that every Facebook/Instagram user is a bad person. The argument is that the company is evil and has evil policies and will do evil things based on a long history of doing evil things.
"and I want to be able to communicate with people on #threads of my choosing."
It is literally impossible for someone to take that choice away from you. Suppose Threads were to arrive in the Fediverse tomorrow. Worst case scenario: your admin defederates with them immediately and you have to migrate instances. You don't even have any pre-existing connections with them to lose. All your follows are ported. Stop fearmongering about this!
"I don't want somebody else deciding this for me."
It’s approximately one year since the peak of the enshittification of Twitter and the big Mastodon influx. Let’s ask again: What is your main microblogging platform? Boosts welcome.
Pitihän nyt sitten blogata tästä ronsuinstanssin (miten tämä kuulostaa niin matemaattiselta?) vaihdoksesta. Ja hyvä kysymys on nyt sitten se, että voiko tähän koko höskään luottaa.
@jonne@rolle Mutta blokkilistat saattavat riippua.
Tärkeintä on kuitenkin ymmärtää se, että instanssia valitessa et valitse vain yhteisöä, vaan myös ylläpitäjän/ylläpitäjät. Ja se tekee tästä kognitiivisesti paljon raskaampaa, kuin kadota jonnekin supersuuren, kasvottoman palvelun syövereihin.
Tätä ei lue Mastodon-oppaissa tarpeeksi selkeästi, eikä ole juuri mitään keinoa selvittää, millaisesta tiimistä on kysymys etukäteen. Ja tämä tekee vaikeaksi luottaa jatkuvuuteen.
@jonne@rolle@sivusta Joo täytyy olla mastodo.fi-puolelta laitettu mastodontti.fi estoon. Ei pysty katselemaan sen sivun kautta profiileja toisella. Ihmettelinkin kun kaikki seuraajat ei tulleetkaan siirrossa mukana uudelle instanssille ja tuoreimmalla lataamallani seurattujen listalla ei ollut yhtään tunnusta teidän palvelimelta. Hieman vanhemmalla varmuuskopiolla oli lähes 30, onneksi olivat tallessa.
Tuo onkin tämän softan ehkä vihamielisin ominaisuus, että moderointitoimenpiteet voi johtaa käyttäjien lukuisten kontaktien häviämiseen. Ilmeisesti tuolla kansainvälisemmillä palvelimilla yhden ylläpitäjän hetken mielijohde johti vasta samanlaisiin harmeihin.
@mariyadelano In the late 90s or early 2000s, I noticed that some clever spammer was using a random dictionary approach to generate spoofed names. So rather than hotgirlxx291037 I'd get messages from Binder Q. Thrift or Farrier S. Crawling (I made these up, but that was the pattern they followed). I started keeping a .txt document of ones I found the most amusing. That file is long gone, but I still remember the name that inspired me to create in the first place: Rampaging O. Salsas
@mariyadelano I don’t remember the exact year, and it was advertising not exactly spam, but I screen shot this from an ad on Fox News website back in the day. Something beautifully and horrifyingly predatory about the text “if your like Reagan you’ll love Groupon”
When yall wake up in the morning what app do you check first?
Reply and say why if you want.
Preciate if you could boost so we get a good response.
Thank you
Jaden xxx #SocialMedia#Social
@Jaden2 Honestly it's usually ESS Mobile to clock into work. If not that and I use my phone before heading to work, it's either Mona for Mastodon cause notification, or like, oh yeah, Sleep Watch! I love that app. It tells me just how bad, or good sometimes, I slept the previous night.
"Unless you use Threads, you will not see any ads from Threads. It is also not possible for any third party server to insert ad-like posts into your home feed, since your home feed is calculated by your own server from the people (and hashtags) that you choose to follow."
@mastodonmigration How would they "push" ads? The only way we get stuff from them is by following, following someone who boosts, or getting replied-to/@'d by them. The latter is a possible spam vector but would quickly get blocked.
Yet another question people are asking me: "How can I, a common person, help hasten the demise of #Meta through #ActivityPub?"
Again, I want to re-emphasize this. #Fediblock is not an all-purpose tool. It's useful as a hammer. But in this scenario, we don't just need a hammer. We need drills, pliers, saws, and blowtorches.
That said, we must protect communities that choose to defederate from Meta. Which means that if those servers don't want to receive messages from any Meta-owned services, we must not only be respectful of that, we should make damn sure that those servers are quarantined from Meta. So much of the success of fighting Meta will require safe spaces from Meta.
The next thing we need is lots and lots of nodes. Currently, we only have ~25,000 nodes on the Fediverse but we need more. Preferably, these nodes should be small, agile, and well-moderated. If you have the finances and/or skill to run a node, it's important that you do so. To compete with Meta, we need to build scale -- and the easiest way to build scale is by adding more nodes to the Fediverse.
What will also be key is lobby servers. These will be servers specifically set up for migrants from Meta-owned services to help onboard them towards the rest of the Fediverse. To run such a lobby server, they need to be welcoming, moderated well, and free of the elitists and gatekeepers that poison so much of the Fediverse currently.
How to get people from Meta to try out the rest of the Fediverse? We need people willing to be ambassadors on #P92 who are ready and willing to evangelize the rest of the Fediverse. Folks like @tchambers are very good at this on Twitter, and I have no doubt that we can do the same with P92. Except this time we'll have the benefit of federation already happening 😉
Now if there's one thing I've learned about the growth of the Fediverse it's that bad corporate decisions pay dividends. We've already experienced waves of migration from Tumblr, Twitter, and Reddit. And I have no doubt that it's only a matter of time before Meta makes another corporate mistake -- as they tend to do.
In which case, we need to strike fast. When another Cambridge Analytica happens, we need to remind everyone on Meta about the lobby servers that are on standby, and ready to take them on. Unlike previous migrations, let's not be unprepared for this. Let's be especially prepared since Meta plans to join the Fediverse.
Finally, we need more devs. Specifically, we need devs willing to build innovative server and client software that takes aim at Meta. And to do that, we need to support the devs that currently exist -- show evergreen devs pondering whether they should invest here that we, as a community, are appreciative of our current devs.
If you like #Mastodon, #Calckey, #Kbin, #Friendica, etc., it's important that you open up your hearts as well as your wallets and fund the next stage of Fediverse development.
This will take a lot of work. But if you want to fight Meta, challenge their dominance of social media, this is what must be done.
Personally, I'm hyped about the future of the Fediverse -- regardless of whether Meta eventually lives to tell the tale.
☝🏾 Encourage family & friends to embrace Threads
✌🏾 Interact with their Thread account with my #Misskey, #Mastodon & #Pixelfed accounts & build desire for the Fediverse proper platforms
🤟🏾 Help them migrate towards the greater Fediverse.
@darnell@atomicpoet@tchambers hear me out… what if the open Fediverse were the ones to embrace [Meta-platform users], extend [the reach of knowledge and understanding federation], and extinguish [by helping people move their data away from corporations who exist to sell it for profit]?
Ok, so I flipped out on #SocialMedia yesterday (meaning, I responded and engaged with someone that said something offensive). I blocked him but should've done that before typing that angry reply.
I think I'm on edge because the #Malaysia state elections is around the corner & feel more anxious than usual. So anti-China posts, which is almost like the anti-Chinese posts on right-wing Twitterjaya really triggered me.
I guess I may be 200+ yrs removed from my...
...ancestors in China, but for some reason I do still feel a part of China. This is something I noticed - Chinese from around the world seem to feel the same. Maybe because in Malaysia, the Chinese never really 100% assimilated and held on to their culture and mindsets. So anti-China rhetoric feels like #racist attacks, almost. Just thinking out loud ... I wonder, if you're Chinese but not from #China, do you feel affected by anti-China sentiments?
Or am I weird?
@liztai I'm more annoyed by the subtle implication that Chinese people can't think for themselves because they are currently under authoritarian rule. Philosophically Chinese people are very different from the modern Western mainstream. I feel like for all the talk about diversity, the west cannot accept a wider diversity of thought.
It's also why I find the trend of Asian American films annoying. It is like being lectured that we have to accept western values and assimilate.
People are asking me what I think about #Meta joining the Fediverse. To review what I've said elsewhere, it's important to acknowledge five important realities:
Meta can use ActivityPub, and nothing can be done about it. Fediblock doesn't prevent Meta from using ActivityPub because ActivityPub is an open protocol.
A mass Fediblock (Gab style) is not happening. The big servers aren't doing it. And if the big servers aren't doing it, the medium and little servers don't have the power to enforce a mass Fediblock.
The majority of people on the Fediverse don't care -- and many of them even want to connect with Meta. I know, this might surprise you. But based on my observations, most people won't be leaving mastodon.social because it federates with Meta.
Even if the majority of Fediverse servers blocked Meta, that would still mean that certain unsavoury servers (which shall be unnamed) will likely connect with Meta -- and I certainly don't want those servers to be the face of the Fediverse for people who use #P92
Even if Meta pulled a Truth Social and didn't connect to the Fediverse, that does not prevent them from sucking up all that data from ActivityPub -- seeing how that data is, in fact, public.
Am I saying there's no value in blocking Meta? Not at all. Yes, block them if you don't want to send and receive messages to P92. Will that prevent Meta from seeing your messages? As I said, no, not at all. But at least that's data you haven't directly given to Meta (unless you're allowing RSS on your server). And it will also mean you won't receive messages from Meta -- if that's your purpose, blocking is good.
Now I've come to believe that when Meta joins the Fediverse, the Fediverse will largely be divided into three factions:
Faction 1: Servers that federate with Meta
Faction 2: Servers that don't federated with Meta, but federate with servers that federate with Meta
Faction 3: Servers that don't federate with Meta, and don't federate with any server that federates with Meta
Factions 1 and 2 will probably go on their merry way. It's Faction 3 that I believe will die because it's ultimately unfeasible.
"But Chris!" some might say, "There's that pact!"
Unless all those servers in that pact are only federating via white labeled servers who've signed that pact, the pact is useless. Such white labeling would mean that every server that federates must be manually reviewed. And it means that every new server that joins the Fediverse will be federated with Faction 1 and Faction 2 before they're federated with Faction 3.
Which ultimately means that Faction 3 gets tinier and tinier, especially as churn occurs, and those users don't get replaced by newcomers.
In the end, what will federation via white label achieve? Not a whole lot, except make certain people believe they have done something substantial to fight Meta when they haven't.
At a certain point, we have to accept reality: Meta will use ActivityPub, and most people using the Fediverse will talk to them.
So am I waving the white flag?
Not at all. What's important to acknowledge here is that it's not we, the Fediverse, who have conceded. It's Meta.
It's Meta who have given up ownership of their own corporate-owned network effect in order to join the Fediverse.
Despite this concession from Meta, I'm not happy about them joining the Fediverse.
However, there's another consideration: for people who use Meta. it's an incremental improvement over what they had before -- which was no federation. Again, less worse is better than worse. If the world is slightly better -- even if it's not ideal -- it's still better.
Do I want people to use Meta-owned social networks? Not at all.
Here's where I disagree with 99% of people panicking about Meta: I believe ActivityPub will ultimately be Meta's own undoing.
@atomicpoet
Fair enough, that is a very admin / owner point of view.
From an user perspective. I have been cyber bullied back in Facebook. The moderation team did nothing, and you know I'm not the only one, many people that comes here escaping from harassment are being told "just give them another chance to bully you, then we will ban them", but why? why are we waiting for it to happen?
Others have said "we can teach them about moderation" and yourself talking about "we can undermine them"
@punko Responding just to you because I don't follow Chris or vice versa. I'll respond to each of the points by number.
Nobody is arguing that Meta is not allowed into the Fediverse, so this is a red herring.
This is right. A mass fediblock is not happening, and IMO it shows what a huge problem the big instances are.
Also right. But I'm not aware of anyone making the argument that "we should defederate from Meta because most people in the fediverse don't want to interact with them". We already knew people on the huge instances didn't give a shit.
I could not care less if Meta decides to expose their own users to fascists. And to the extent this makes Meta users' lives worse, GOOD.
Yet another red herring. I've already discussed this issue at length. There is a huge difference between handing Meta your data on a silver platter and having it be scrapable with a robots.txt file or a robots meta tag that says don't scrape it.
I don't really know if there will be 3 factions, but I've been pushing for defederating from the largest instances for a while now. Their existence makes the Fediverse de-facto centralized under the control of people who have shown themselves uniquely unqualified to have any power over it. If faction 3 would be infeasible, the early fediverse would also have been infeasible. People who want to be in faction 3 aren't going to move to faction 2 or 1. In fact they'll move FROM the other factions.
And frankly, if Meta can just come in and there's nothing we can do about it, then the Fediverse is a failed experiment and should just die.
Wenn #SocialMedia zu Social Selling wird, dann ist da gar nichts mehr "Social" dran, wie diese Content-Farm in Indonesien zeigt!
Wie der Like Button das Internet zerstoert, das habe ich vor einiger Zeit hier 👉 https://t.ly/LikeButton ausgefuehrt. Die im Video gezeigten Beispiele sind wirklich nur die Spitze des Eisbergs.
Ramsch-Shops wie #Shein, #Temu, & #Wish haben diese Form des Vertriebs perfektioniert. Alle aus #China & selbstverstaendlich ist der Hauptdistributionskanal #TikTok
@pallenberg
Erinnert mich schon bisschen an die Leute um Unge, die alle unter Vertrag einer Agentur waren und dann in einem Haus gewohnt haben.
Aber da ging es natürlich noch nicht vorrangig um die Produkte.
@energisch_ ich hab noch mehr. Von Chinesinnen nachts unter Bruecken in gutsituierten Bezirken... Weil der Douyin Algo, also die Chinesische TikTok Variantw, es abstraft bzw dich bei diversen Produkten schlechter rankt, wenn du im "Armenviertel" streamst.
We have talked a lot about the positive sides of the Fediverse, but not as much about the downsides. For me the top negative things of this free and healthier social web are:
People are patronizing. This happens a lot more than in other places. I mostly mean the unsolicited advice: Alt text, don’t post this or that, avoid commercialism, other social medias and use content warnings for everything. While many mean good, it has been often very aggressive. This happened a lot in 2022. For a while it made the bar to post much higher because I was afraid to make a mistake. Today I don’t care as much.
Nitpicking. Comments are nice, but not when people are overly criticising about what you do or concentrating in irrelevancies. Whataboutism is the worst side effect.
Everyone has their own rules and they are often contradicting each other. Some are extreme and block every other instance, some more allowing. You might accidentally break many rules around the Fediverse without even noticing it (some servers don’t allow posts about meat or alcohol for example).
Politically too left. It seems it is not allowed to be very conservative here. People are anti-commercialism, anti-capitalist, anti-anything.
While saying this, I do not stumble upon these downsides very often since I am quite a chill guy and have my own server. I feel like I can post whatever the fuck I want.
However, I do wonder if these things are the ones that make the Fediverse less approachable by new users. On the other hand I believe the new open social web will transform the way we see the social media in general and soon it does not matter, we don’t have to think what is ”here” when the big players like Threads and Tumblr adapt ActivityPub.
@rolle I know where you're coming from here and, for myself, being on a single-user instance means that a lot of the drama on the fediverse passes me by.
I think the main thing is that people need to understand that this isn't a single thing, and there isn't one person setting the rules for everyone.
Different instances have different standards, and this is good. But it does mean that people will need to take some time to fine the instance that suits them best.
So, who knows, maybe something like a Truth Social walled garden based on ActivityPub, that scrapes user info from the Fediverse and gives you a one button sign up to Threads.
Seems they are more scared of their users getting a taste of freedom and escaping to the Fediverse, but again, who knows. 🤷
Point is, we don't know what they are up to, and until we do we should save our powder, have faith in each other, and continue building out this great platform.
@jynersolives@BlackAzizAnansi One thing you can be certain of, is that tech reporters rarely understand what they are talking about. This is what makes them so useful to corporate marketing communications campaigns. We are going to be seeing a lot of nonsensical BS over the next days and weeks. Best not to get too spun up about anything. As the old adage goes, "watch what they do, not what they say."
@ddbkultur Bemerkenswert! „Als öffentliche Institution mit öffentlichen Ressourcen kommerzielle Plattformen zu nutzen, ist .. ein Dilemma – und ein besonderes im Fall von X, #Meta und Co.: Verstöße gegen #Datenschutzrecht, #Hatespeech, Beteiligung extremistischer und/oder menschenverachtender Accounts an Werbeeinnahmen, … Ignorieren von Hinweisen zu gefährlichen Inhalten, Sperren kritischer Accounts, Abbau von Moderationsteams – die Liste ließe sich weiterführen.“ #twitter
now that i've got a lot of the core parts of #tomo working, i have an open design question for you fellow amateur architects of social communities:
the #internet of the #90s was seen as a means for replacing regionalism with globalism. we gained a lot - mostly a high volume of people with shared interests, but i think we lost something vital in that transition.
the #bbs of the 80s and 90s was unique in that most were inherently geared to local use within a 5-20 km radius, often due to telco long distance fees. users already had locality in common by the time they began a conversation.
local user meetups were commonplace. people would spontaneously invite everyone in an area code to a "403 gathering" or a "667 meetup", have beer and coffee, and chat for the sake of chat.
i'd like to facilitate letting users weave their local social fabric into tomo's design, and i'd like some examples of how that has worked elsewhere.
have you ever seen an online community that had a unique way of creating a sense of locality for its users? what did you like about it?
AVVISO: come responsabile di sociale.network, non accetto di rendere ogni membro della community un utile idiota che alimenta con i suoi contenuti una azienda che ha sulla coscienza brexit, suprematismo bianco, propaganda russa e genocidio in Birmania. E non accetto che il colonialismo parassitario di aziende come #Meta possa filtrare i nostri contenuti per mostrare quelli che generano più bisticci e revenues, sovraccaricando i nostri server per riempire le loro tasche. #metablock#sntutorial
@gubi vabbé, ogni istanza è disfunzionale a modo suo... per me gli iscritti della mia istanza non sono figli, al massimo sono compagni di stanza che ospito a casa...
E se qualcuno gli dice di spolverarsi la sbirulina su per le coane 🥴 non mi sento di dover dire nulla se non ricordargli con la massima calma di non farlo dentro casa... 🤣
@informapirata
Però scusa, tolto che più collaborativo di @gubi non so se ne troviamo.
L'istanza postasi al di sopra delle altre non può tanto liquidarle così se, pur senza motivi di stare in posizione subordinata, se la ritrovano sempre fra i piedi.
At least a part of the this whole debate about #Meta and the #Fediverse seems to boil down to the most persistent argument on #Mastodon: People saying, well I have all the connections I want here, so why are you complaining about missing people or communities?
Meta is so so many people that could get to know and embrace the #Fediverse like many did after the #TwitterTakeover.
@mho We will have to wait until we know how this big actor actually implements the protocol.
The way I see it, the ActivityPub specs leave some room for more unfortunate, broad interpretations (e.g. removing federated objects can unilaterally be declared “not allowed … at the receiver's discretion”).
In its current form, the network assumes an agreed level of good faith and the only way to deal with bad-faith actors is defederation. And the bigger the actor in question, the more socially difficult it is to justify defederation.
@mho They are a publicly-traded trillion-dollar Silicon Valley surveillance machine that exploits your behaviour for profit. We know what their business model is. We know they see success as a zero-sum game. None of that is going to change. What exactly are we waiting to see?
It’s like sheep inviting a wolf to dinner to see what it’s going to do. It’s going to have dinner, of course. You’re just not going to like what it eats.
I must say, with all the fuzz about #Meta and things #Fediverse, I feel that I was right not to give up on the #BBS scene back in the late 1990s. So be prepared, the future will be ASCII / ANSI ... 😋
I run two of 'em. RC-BOX is the #8bit one, running on an #rc2014#Z80 machine. Check my profile for the addresses. I recommend using SyncTerm or Qodem for a terminal client.
I feel like #Threads would be much better served being used as an on-ramp to the Fediverse for normies and we should be providing ample resources to migrate them out of #Meta ASAP instead of preemptively blocking Threads completely. People on #Mastodon seem overly skittish and reactionary when we can use Threads to poison pill all of Facebook.
@skye It is possible for you to disagree with someone without being an asshole. Come with more facts next time than “this bad thing happened 18 years ago” so it’s definitely going to happen again.
Having read up on the #Meta drama that occurred yesterday:
No, we won't block Meta before anything happens.
Yes, we will hold them to the same standards as everyone else. This means blocks, only when there's reason to do so.
Some #MastoAdmin's need to quit this weird power trip. The software has great personal moderation tools for fine-grained control. Don't make decisions for hundreds or thousands of people just because you don't like something.
@jorijn You're misunderstanding the role of a Fedi Admin. I choose an instance precisely because of their blocking (or no blocking) policy. There's no power trip here but choice for users whether they want an instance that doesn't federate with Meta or one that does. This is why we have a Fediverse, we don't need to all agree on who to block.
So please refrain from calling Admins who block Meta power tripping. They're exercising exactly the power yielded to them by the users of that instance.
@ljrk now you're just putting words in my mouth. I'll never call you hot headed or anything else for that matter. I'm just a free choice absolutist. It's all up to you, the user, to decide who to block and who not to. And yes, there are servers where that's decided for you. I don't speak for those admins but I support them in their endeavours nonetheless.
Welches #Zahlung-Dienstleistung im #Internet bevorzugt ihr und weshalb? Wenn ich da was nicht auflistete, dann bitte dies als Kommentar erwähnen, danke 😊
(Danke für das Teilen :BoostOK:)
@kubikpixel
Merkwürdigerweise kann ich meinen Post nicht finden, auf den Du scheinbar geantwortet hast. Ich bilde mir ein, zu wissen, was ich gepostet habe, kann deine Frage aber in dem Zusammenhang nicht verstehen.
Ergänzend: Tatsächlich kenne ich nur Paypal aus deiner Auswahl, nutze es jedoch nicht mehr, weil ich deren Nutzungsbedingungen für ein Pulverfass halte, das eines Tages in meinem Wohnzimmer hochgehen würde. Deshalb notgedrungen VISA.
International ja, im SEPA Raum. ( ungefähr EU aber noch etwas größer, meine ich ).
Online Zahlen für Service (das heißt, regelmäßig Zahlung, oder?) entweder indem ich einen #Sepa-#Dauerauftrag einrichte ( über das (online)-Banking meiner Bank ( @glsbank 👋 ).
Oder der Anbieter Sepa-Einzug bei mir macht.
Das ist mir am liebsten, das war ja sie Ausgangsfrage. Wenn der Anbieter z.B. in usa ist und kein Sepa kann oder mag, nutze ich ihn halt nicht. Oder ich nutze dan PayPal .
So I am seeing a lot about #meta in the #fediverse lately, and could someone please explain to me why this is bad for meta users to connect with the Fediverse? I don’t like Meta much, but what is the harm of them joining the Fediverse?
@mikedoise The good: Mainstream social media becoming accessible through the Fediverse could be nice for users who wish to follow friends who are not here. If other competitors do the same, decentralisation could become the new standard (think: e-mail).
The bad: If Facebook's new social media gets enough users, they might just end up making their social network closed, or do something else cunning to try to achieve some sort of monopoly, and nothing will have improved at all.
@mikedoise@simon I think it's a matter of people thinking Meta won't respect people, will start to insert ads and other corporate things and not respect boundries/try to monotize/use data without consent as has been their history. Also I think a few other open-source net things went down the same way, once upon a time? @welshpixie might be able to tell you more, she's been abreast of many things, though she's also had one hell of a day so might be elseplace right now :). Hope my vague explanation is at least a little helpful.
Ist irgendwas im #Internet verhasster als #Captchas? Müssen ja was bringen, denkt man sich, sonst wären wir sie doch längst los. Denkste. #Bots lösen sie schneller und liegen öfter richtig:
Fast immer schneller, immer korrekter: Bots schlagen Menschen bei Captchas
Eigentlich wollte eine Forschungsgruppe ermitteln, wie lange Menschen für Captchas brauchen. Herausgekommen ist, dass Bots damit besser klarkommen.
Seems to be no significant change in the statistics:
As before, about 90% of #mastodon users are on servers who want to federate with #threads or w/o info available about their stance on #threads (technical default would be federating).
