I thought I was gonna be able to quit Reddit full time. Didn’t look for a few days, then did. Still check since some niche communities aren’t over here (or active) yet so I have to go there. But I only still check every few days (I was a several time a day redditor so usage is down) and I’ll check Lemmy at least once or twice a day now.
It just definitely needed to hit a critical mass. Enough that people had enough to read, stick around, and post themselves. Which in turn created a place that new people felt had enough content.
It’s also about search engine indexing. It’s happening slowly, but I’ve noticed Lemmy posts are finally beginning to show up in Google/Bing search results. As this trend improves, more people will stumble here by accident and then join out of curiosity.
I’d also expect another big jump when clients like Sync and Boost get their apps for Lemmy online. That will attract an enormous amount of users from reddit.
Totally agree! I just have been a registered reader on Reddit. Now, it’s the first time I’m participating - might be considerably because lemmy is trending. Nevertheless, I found communities and post I’m interested in within minutes - 👌🏼 whereas Reddit was mostly clutter.
You need both though. Memes and shitposts to scroll though and chuckle, and then quality stuff to engage on. Lemmys got that, and the momentum will keep it growing.
I tried lemmy like a year or so ago, and it felt so stale. The technology is there, but the content just wasn’t. That’s clearly changed now. 😊
Would be nice if there was a way for posts to be flagged such that memes and shitposts and more serious discussions could be separated, so you could filter depending on mood.
Yep, also an easier way to explore/sign up and filter instances and their different pages. I’m new and have no idea what I’m doing regarding that. So far I’m just signing up to instances and hoping new interesting stuff appears on my page… I’m on Lemmy.world as I assume we all are, how do I view the different pages on this instance or is it all just in a singular feed?
Discoverability is something that could definitely use more work. Right now I recommend the site lemmyverse.net/communities, which is searchable and shows subscriber and active user counts. It should help you find where the most populated communities for your interests are located, if they already exist over here.
Your front page has three feeds. All is just what you’d expect. Local filters to only show posts from your home instance (lemmy.world in your case). I find it’s mostly useful if you’re registered to a smaller instance and want to keep up with local concerns.
Home shows updates for all communities you are subscribed to.
Hit the communities button near the top of the page to subscribe and view. You don’t need to sign up to more instances unless you really want to, we can post on any federated instance. It’s weird at first but you’ll get it.
They will. My experience community building thus far is that if you can build up one anchor community to the point where people are organically sharing content and commenting, other adjacent communities will start to generate the same sorts of things with smaller subscriber bases because that anchor community is keeping people’s eyes here. Just a question of time.
Yes, when you make a post look at the line where the ‘save post’ button is at the bottom of the entry. There will be two overlapping squares. That’s the crosspost button.
I’m usually a lurker, but I decided to just go ahead and make one that I was missing. Something about personally wanting Lemmy to grow is motivating to me.
I made an XCOM community on Lemmy.world, and even though I’m the only one posting so far, it’s fun to watch the subscriber count grow. Already at 50!
Please definitely don’t be discouraged in the slightest, TPM.
Single-game forums were almost always the smallest gaming subreddits on Reddit, often times being several orders of magnitude smaller than the “gaming in general” communities.
But that special feeling of having other people passionate about that specific game you love can’t be beat. Hang in there, and you’ll definitely grow and get that engagement in time.
May I suggest doing an informal poll of some sort to boost engagement? I’m not that familiar with XCOM, but it’s a pretty big series with a lot of games, right? Maybe just a simple “which is your favorite XCOM game?” thread.
I’m dying with the lack of baseball communication. The biggest Baseball and Atlanta Braves communities are pretty much dead and I really miss talking ball.
I was lamenting the lack of an NFL community here but no way in hell I’m joining a Dallas Cowboys community regardless of how much discussion it generates. 😆
Shameless plug for !baseball (check out our sidebar for the team-specific communities). We’ve got the game bots ported over and are working on improving them and adding new features.
I agree with !matt though, the Venn diagram of sports fans and tech-savvy lemmy pioneers is pretty small. You can help by posting and commenting to attract more users. More content == more users (eventually).
The best thing you can do to help is to comment on threads. I know it feels weird to comment in an empty post, but it does tend to spur lurkers to respond.
Sports is definitely hard to have take off in these sorts of spaces, since sports are generally talked about much more amongst regular/casual users, than the more tech-savvy crowd who are willing to try these things out.
It’s the same on the biggest ActivityPub platform (Mastodon) - the really popular regular subjects such as sports and cars just don’t have a presence there.
Phillies fan checking in. Agree. I have a community with a bot that posts game updates like Reddit (which is nice) but the game threads are mainly me posting once or twice and one or two other people with side off comments. No community engagement so to speak. Long way from the Reddit game threads of several thousand comments.
Feel your pain. I’m constantly thinking, what the hell do I have to do to get r/orioles to follow me over to Lemmy to grow the numbers? They are one of the only things left at Reddit that I regularly look at. But 99% of the mod and user base there just doesn’t care about the the issue.
Conversely, that means that at least sports spaces are among the least bot-spammed places on Reddit. So there’s that.
I feel like that is more or less to be expected. A ton of people found Lemmy during the reddit protests. Now that the protests are gone and Lemmy has had its growing pains some users are leaving, going back to reddit or other places. If we keep using it and making content users will grow organically.
Lemmy is having an identity crisis of sorts. It was built to be decentralized yet we (users) seem to want to centralize everything and we all go to a few of the largest instances.
Interesting what do you mean? I use signal but I can’t get anyone other than my ex wife to use it with me. It is so much nicer than google voice or the texting app, regardless of the end to end encryption.
Lemmy is having an identity crisis of sorts. It was built to be decentralized yet we (users) seem to want to centralize everything and we all go to a few of the largest instances.
Because decentralization, at least as it is now, runs counter to what people are looking for in a social media platform; mainly discoverability.
Does it though? My instance has very little locally, but if I browse ‘All’ it really isn’t any different than being on any other instance, even a big one.
You are only shown what your server has stored. Your server only stores what people of your instance have subscribed to. If you visit bogger instances, they all have different Hot feeds, because each server pulls different content. There is no one way to see what is going on in all of the fediverse. You are only ever shown a part.
Sure but above a certain user count, your instance will usually have at least one subscriber to just about every active community. (I may have used a bot to help this process…)
Lemmy is having an identity crisis of sorts. It was built to be decentralized yet we (users) seem to want to centralize everything and we all go to a few of the largest instances.
Is that any different on Mastodon and other Fediverse projects?
There are a lot of parts of Lemmy that are rough around the edges or aren’t there at all. Hopefully it improves over time, especially as new front end apps can free developers to focus on the back end, but we’ll see.
I think more people need to make communities they are interested in that might already exist on beehaw/lemmy.world/lemmy.ml/etc but on other instances. We really need to not keep everything on a few instances… I agree it contradicts itself. I tried by creating fallout but hard to get activity. Even its main community is quiet so that makes sense. I might try something a bit less niche.
I think there is a gap in understanding how Lemmy works and how it differs from reddit, in particular with the less technical crowd. We definitely don’t want people sharing giant instances, but that matches more with the sign up for reddit, use reddit logic many people are used to.
I think it’s also why we have seen such drama over Sync for Lemmy and its ads and pricing. To the techy crowd that was the majority of Lemmy users, that all seems antithetical to what Lemmy is and how it works. To the people who came to Lemmy from reddit, and especially those who may have tried out Lemmy because of Sync, the criticism sounds maddening because that’s the way it always worked on reddit.
So in some sense all of this is expected. Lemmy will lose some users, but maybe it will find an equilibrium. The key focus these days imho should be outreach about smaller instances, and outreach about donating to your instance (if you can) to keep it running.
I like the idea of federated social media platforms conceptually, but ai absolutely want to make my home on the largest instances. That’s just an artifact of how I use social media, though, I always gravitate towards the busiest platforms because interacting with so many people is the real joy of it.
Having recently jumped from the largest instance to a small unknown one, I will say that it’s nice not having to deal with downtimes roughly 20% of the time when I try to use Lemmy.
I appreciate World’s transparency but it’s been a lot nicer on lemm.ee for me. Not having a way to kill time when I need to isn’t the end of the world but definitely annoying.
LASIM can copy your current subs to another instance, as others have said. I wish there was a way to migrate posts/comments over. I guess you could just link to your old account in your bio though.
It’s hard to find instances that offer what world offers, so I get it.
OTOH, I ended up moving or handing over most of my communities that I had created on world because this instance is TOO popular and bogged down all the time. Plus, they make arbitrary and drastic decisions without discussion on matters like defederation and often banning. It’s smart to go to a smaller instance but it’s also risky because any instance could go down at any moment. That’s why many of my communities are duplicated (across world and infosec) because it would be devastating to lose all of those quality links and engagement.
It’s not that users want to centralize everything. It’s Lemmy’s design that promotes it, because despite federation, there are still advantages to choosing big instances and communities.
Joining the largest instance makes searching, joining, or opening communities much more seamless.This can be addressed by:
Improving the search so that it can find communities, or even content, that no one on the instance has subscribed yet.
Making it easier to open a community in your home instance.
In addition to Sub/Local/All feed, you can have a “moderated” feed (with communities selected by admins). The “local” feed is most useful for instances on a specific topic. But for very small instances, it’ll be too empty at least at first. So a moderated feed can create an on-topic feed that’s more lively.
For most topics, only the largest communities are large enough to have good content, so everyone wants to join them. To address this, you need some easy mechanism to subscribe to all communities on a topic. For example, we can let communities follow other communities. Then people can create topical meta-communities that aggregate content without centralizing it.
I don’t think it’s about a craving for centralisation but for newcomers and people still learning the core ideas about decentralisation it’s about a promise of more active engagement and more varied content.
And FOMO. New users gravitate towards the large instances because they think they will miss content, not knowing they can easily access said content on any instance as long as it hasn’t defederated from them.
I’m barely seeing any content at all, I often see a post click on the community and it shows either 2 other posts and nothing else or nothing at all. It constantly seems like the majority of posts just disappear into the void.
It is much much more of a pain to access content on small instances where it hasn’t synced yet. It means visiting those larger instances anyway to check if it’s worth subscribing to communities. And then trying to actually subscribe is a lesson in patience while it gives you no search results and errors out if you try to visit an unsynced community directly.
Runs the largest Lemmy instance, for free, for your enjoyment.
Accepts all liability for content, local and federated (there’s little/no legal distinction when you’re essentially running a copy of a remote community)
I’m not in the loop or even involved with LW’s admin affairs, but I would imagine there was a letter or email to them or their service provider that prompted that and likely named those communities specifically. Going out on a limb, I would guess the community removal was a timely response to something like that, and based on LW’s history, an announcement will probably be coming soon-ish.
Before you grab your torches and pitchforks, remember: Pretty much every Lemmy instance is run by volunteers that don’t have legal departments.
You seem to be confusing Lemmy.world with Lemmy as a whole. Lemmy is free to be used for anything by anyone.
Lemmy.world is the largest and most mainstream Lemmy server, so they need to be especially careful about legal issues. If lemmy.world gets taken down due to mirroring content hosted on lemmy.dbzer0.com, the whole network would partially collapse because of how many users and communities are hosted on lemmy.world.
It’s not even close to worth the risk. This is how federation is supposed to work.
Isnt the federations key idea to avoid collapse if any single instance it failing? This sounds like the system has become too centralized around lemmy.world
It’s definitely not ideal to be this centralized around lemmy.world. But it’s also nearly impossible to prevent some amount of centralization, especially at our current size. With only 50k active users, we don’t have enough people to sustain activity if things were more spread out.
It’s still so early. If we get to 500k or 5M users, things will naturally get way more decentralized. A year ago, about 70-80% of the whole network was basically centralized on lemmy.ml. I dont have the exact numbers because I wasn’t here yet, but looking back at the stats there were only a few thousand active users at that time and the vast majority were on lemmy.ml
Now, only about 40% of the network is on lemmy.world (20k/50k users). I just think there are natural incentives that will continue to push us in the direction of decentralization, but we haven’t quite reached the tipping point where that starts to happen.
Sometimes people centralize, and sometimes they decentralize. They are both natural social behaviors.
If people naturally gravitate to the place everyone is, why are we all on Lemmy instead of reddit? Why do I have absolutely no desire to be a part of lemmy.world, where everyone else is? People are not all the same.
If we get to 500k or 5M users, things will naturally get way more decentralized.
What makes you think that? I abandoned my kbin account because all the content is on lemmy and I don’t feel like waiting 4 hours to get that content on kbin. People will go where the content is.
That’s just because kbin doesn’t work properly though. One reason why things are centralized is because there are only so many servers that actually work well.
Events like this removal of the piracy community will naturally cause people to spread out over time. You could even see people try to spread out on reddit by making new subs when they chafed at the rules.
The more people we have, the more diverse we will become, and thus it will be necessary to create new servers to accommodate these different types of people. That’s my instinct, but there are many different ways it could go.
Content loads just as fast on small subs as on large subs. Not so for instances. I think centralization is inevitable unless federated data transfer gets faster.
It usually is federated quickly within Lemmy itself. I can’t speak for kbin but in my experience on SJW, I typically get all the content from remote instances in real time.
I know there are some technical issues with the scaling of federation though, but hopefully that can be improved on.
As you can see, the only three instances synchronizing in more than 5 minutes are
reddthat, based in Australia
lemmy.nz, in New Zealand
aussie.zone, Australia too
feddit.ch, closing at the end of the month
For the 3 first instances, this is due to lag and centralization of communities on LW. Moving communities away from LW would actually help solving that issue (in parallel, Reddthat is planning to open an EU server to reduce the lag)
I’m not from lemmy.world, I’m from sh.itjust.works. We have never banned you at all. And I understand your argument.
But it’s not our place to decide what the lemmy.world admins do with their server. It also doesn’t affect you personally at all. It’s not like they defederated your server, it only affects their users who were subscribed to that community, and they can always just make an account on another server.
Reddit is an American company, subject to American laws, that has a legal department (i.e. has lawyers on retainer). Lemmy World, like most other instances, is run by volunteers and donations and is subject to the laws where it’s hosted and/or where its operators reside.
When you receive a takedown / DMCA / whatever legal mumbo-jumbo applies to your jurisdiction, you have two choices:
Comply immediately
Fight it in court
The first option is free. The second option costs a lot of money if you don’t already have lawyers on retainer and can cost even more money if the court rules against you.
In most EU nations, piracy is usually not even a blip on the radar for security forces and internet providers. Things seem to work completely differently in Germany, where breaking copyright law can carry a sentence of up to three years in jail, alongside a large fine and trial costs. - Source
What’s the point of Lemmy if Reddit is more free?
That’s such a broad question that I’m not even going to bother. Instead, I’ll answer with the same question as when “states’ rights” are brought up:
“States’ rights Free to do what, exactly?”
You’re also free to run your own instance and accept all the legal liabilities that come with that.
When you receive a takedown / DMCA / whatever legal mumbo-jumbo applies to your jurisdiction, you have two choices:
<span style="color:#323232;">Comply immediately
</span><span style="color:#323232;">Fight it in court
</span>
You actually have a third option: file a DMCA Counternotice. If my reading is correct, the very act of filing the counternotice allows you to keep the content up unless the original filer “insists” (it’s the mechanism against “DMCA trolling”). DMCAis not a jail-free card to erase content from the internet.
Possibly, but the DMCA is strictly a US thing. The comply or fight in court are the only two somewhat universal options.
Other countries have other similar laws, though. LW’s TOS says they’re under legal jurisdiction of Finland, The Netherlands, and Germany. Not sure what their laws are like, but Germany seems pretty strict about it.
Could be, but still it reeks of overreaction. Without the need of seeing anything else, it’s almost impossible that Germany’s law is that strict that “linking to (discussion of) pirated material” would be off, since if that was the case Google would be making Germany rich with their fines, which doesn’t seem to be the case. It’s even worse when it comes down to saying “discussing or mentioning” internet piracy would be illegal - under the way copyright holders themselves understand it, this would mean mentioning the market of secondhand sales would be illegal in such jurisdictions.
Yeah, until LW addresses it, all we can really do is guess. I’ve just jumped to the most logical conclusion, but that doesn’t mean it’s even close.
For what it’s worth, as an instance admin myself: I don’t get paid to run it, I have other things to worry about, and most definitely don’t have time or energy to deal with copyright BS. That said, I can completely understand their position and reaction.
Depending on how my day was going, I’d have also probably “shot first and asked questions later” with regard to removing the community and waiting until I had time to compose a post about it and be present to deal with the inevitable drama that would cause.
the dbzer0 piracy community has been around much longer than most of the users here. they spun up when they saw the writing on the wall, and they permit things that would not be permitted on reddit. and, it seems, they permit things that are not permitted on .world.
but the instance is still there. the community is still there.
and you can leave .world, join an instance that hasn't banned !piracy, and keep right on going.
As a person who is part of open source communities, on various chairs and donates, the money is extremely slim, and the people involved just want to build cool things.
We are busy trying to keep the lights on for hundreds of thousands of people can enjoy this service. And if a small group of troublemakers force us to get a strong legal threat, we aren’t risking the the project’s survival for them.
Especially when we don’t know the troublemakers, don’t have any connection with them, they don’t contribute to the platform, etc.
The thing that gets me is the quote in the OP from last time this happened. It has been +12 hours of silence when you said last time they’d have this discussion BEFORE. Maybe it’s for legal reasons but you’d think they’d have said well, something.
People speaking out and getting mad is natural and helpful. It’s how discourse works at this scale. Maybe the mods change their actions or maybe they don’t, but saying nothing about bad things happening won’t help anyone and getting mad that others are saying things is stupid.
“The cloud is just other people’s computers” - It’s inconvenient, but those computers are real, physical objects subject to oversight from real, physical law enforcement.
This isn’t reddit dot com opaquely purging your favourite subreddit for some unspecific corporate reason.
The admins stated quite clearly why they are blocking it (“we don’t want trouble, and our TOS lay out that we’ll defed from illegal shit for our own safety”), and it is their instance. And unlike Reddit – The community is still THERE in its home server. It has not been burninated. – You can just. Make an account elsewhere. It’s free. It takes less than 5 minutes. You can even KEEP your LW account for other communities.
Did the admins state anything? I thought the issue here is that LW previously did something without an announcement, undid it and promised to communicate before doing something like that again, and now people are saying they haven’t communicated this time.
That’s the real issue, not the fact that it was defederated.
I would imagine there was a letter or email to them or their service provider that prompted that and likely named those communities specifically
What I’m curious about is, why haven’t lemmy.dbzer0.com received those takedown messages? Wouldn’t it make more sense to go to the source instead of just another instance hosting the content but not actually “responsible” for the content, so to speak? Or maybe they have?
Also curious why lemmy.world has still not made a statement about this or even acknowledged it (at least I haven’t seen any acknowledgement so far). Removing the communities from their instance is of course totally within their power and right, but this isn’t exactly the most transparent way to do it.
regarding your first question - they usually go after the big fish first. dbzer0 might still be flying under the radar, and also might be ina different jurisdiction where the specific plaintiff can’t go after them, or where it’s harder for them to do so
What I’m curious about is, why haven’t lemmy.dbzer0.com received those takedown messages? Wouldn’t it make more sense to go to the source instead of just another instance hosting the content but not actually “responsible” for the content, so to speak? Or maybe they have?
So many unknowns. Until LW makes an announcement, it’s all speculation. I haven’t seen any mention from db0 about takedowns, etc, but those may just be background noise for him. lol
Db0 seems confused based on their comments about this situation over on the piracy community. Said there was zero notice or communication from LW ahead of time
I don’t know the inner politics of it, but I did check lemmy.world/instances and db0 wasn’t on the “blocked” list. AFAIK, based on their modlog, just those two communities were blocked (unless that’s changed since i last looked)
Yeah something’s going on. As of 10 hours ago Db0 has no idea what exactly that is though, which is odd because I believe typically LW would reach out to him about the offending content if it was a DMCA type thing. Idk
This is precisely it.
One other point is, some instance want to focus on certain things, and take the risks, where others don’t.
Our community feddit.uk doesn’t do nsfw, because it’s not worth the headache for what our main focus is.
The guy running lemmynsfw on the other hand, is enthusiastically embracing the challenges involved, and more power to him!
And in the end, it works. We handle Mr. Brains Pork Balls, they can handle…other balls.
I can fathom no world where you’d want to trade away a multi billion dollar brand for a new brand you literally can’t SEO. What, you think your brand is gonna be more impressive that the generic variable, and a part of the alphabet?
“Follow me on Twitter” becomes “follow me on X”? “You should tweet that” becomes “you should X that”? The little blue bird on every shop window, website, and business card becomes a stylized letter that, hopefully, doesn’t look so threatening on the next iteration?
It’s a textbook case of brand destruction. I almost regret never making a Twitter in the first place, just so I could quit today, or at any of the hundred days in the past year where it got inexplicably worse without reason.
The little blue bird on every shop window, website, and business card becomes a stylized letter that, hopefully, doesn’t look so threatening on the next iteration?
Haha, I know the most appropriate iteration, a red background with the X in a white circle.
Its a terrible rebrand that pretty much comes because of Elon's impulses, or in other words, for shits and giggles. Regardless of this hilarious trashing of such a powerful brand, I'll have fun calling tweets "xeets" for a good week.
It must be so horrible working “with” him. You’re trying to build something and every morning you must be frightened to see Elon hanging on a ladder because he thought it was so funny to draw dicks everywhere on the building, which would have you cancel everything you are working on.
I’ve worked in a founder led business and this is why I quit.
I’d spend forever working on a project to build a satellite site then suddenly we don’t want that anymore - bin the recipes we want a full main site redbrand.
Feel you, I’ve been working with this kind of person but he was pushed away a few weeks after my arrival. He still had time to make an impression though, his genius move was to tell each team that the others hated them, which had no effect because we talked to each others…
I agree 100%. If they are going to make an announcement about lemmy.world, they need to do it on lemmy.world. We’re not all on the Discord. I, for one, don’t want to be.
Discord is not something that is easily indexable or linkable. Which means you have to rely on other people if you aren’t part of it. This is a huge issue as anything can be faked
No, that is not the implied point. This is specifically about announcing blocking communities and instances. No one expects lemmy.world to announce it’s down on itself.
Don’t act like you’re some dominant figure here, it’s very toxic.
we disagree, and you are purposefully pretending I’m typing in wingdings or something.
Lemmy does not provide what they needed, and they justified their actions. If people don’t like it, that’s fine, but to suggest they mindlessly acted is purposefully missing the point because people aren’t happy with them.
Don’t act like you’re some dominant figure here, it’s very toxic.
What are you even talking about now? I didn’t even bother reading the rest because that’s such a bizarre thing to say that I couldn’t keep going. What long-lost blocked-up crevice did you pull that out of?
They absolutely should make announcements here, but I think it’s a matter of people attacking them all of the time. We have to give them a lot of credit for handling so many ddos attacks, someone really doesn’t want this place to exist. Imo, let’s give them a chance to talk about it and not make this a bigger deal than it is. This is a volunteer site and instance, not a billion dollar company so go easy.
Its so weird how aggressive people are against lemmy. People don’t want this entire platform to exist, not just lemmy.world. Like lemmynsfw has had people try to suspend pretty much all their payment processors and hosts repeatedly
I 100% agree. My conspiracy theory is that it isn’t reddit or the dude who was upset they banned him, but the people who paid reddit to handle narratives. Lemmy is breaking the PR system. Politics, technology, and also other big communities are taking off and that’s a no go. I could be wrong though, it could be one of the first two or a combo of all three.
I think you underestimate just how bored people can be and how just innately some people are driven to just start shit for seemingly no reason. If there’s a good thing and a new idea to spring up, there’s always at least one person to try and wreck it for everyone.
Granted though, if Reddit is paying someone to basically cause chaos here in some way it’s honestly kind of appreciated. Thank you kind strangers for stress testing the platform and making it more robust and encouraging other instance admins to coordinate with one another.
You may be right but I think you might be underestimating how much a threat Lemmy is to a lot of huge companies. Journalists and/or people who work for politicians would get a lot of info and spread info at reddit. I’m sure technology has people like that too.
Oh no, I do think it’s a huge threat. The fediverse in its entirety is horrifying to so many large companies. That’s why facebook is desperate to try and step into the fediverse and is getting more and more pissed off as people are going “nuh uh!”
Mastodon is good, but lemmy does have the most potential out of most fediverse projects to become truly really really big if done right. It’s like activitypub was made for this kind of platform. Having to just pull entire communities rather than specific users is a big step up from mastodon and reduces the complexity that bars a lot of people from joining mastodon
Yeah seems like the mastodon account would make a lot of sense as a kind of quick and dirty feed of information, particularly when it comes to stuff that’s less “announcement” oriented. Like up down or performance issue statuses and the like.
Fuck Meta and all but this isn’t news. Meta litterally said straight up that they would be doing this before threads ever launched. If you have an instagram account then that is also your threads account. This isn’t some conspiracy it’s exactly what they told everyone they were doing. It’s no diferent than linked accounts for google services.
It’s a conspiracy just in the sense that they are seemingly counting these towards their growth numbers. If they’re saying they have 20 million accounts, but they created 3/4 of them as placeholders, then no…they have 5 million accounts.
Presumably they would have created ~2 Billion Threads accounts since there are ~2B Instagram users. Even if it was just the US there are approximately ~115M Instagram account.
So no, the 70M user number would just be the number to actually try Threads.
I think the difference is that the Threads user count keeps getting thrown around as an indicator of its success and viability, but it’s not a great KPI.
I do think people are using this “realization” of accounts being automatically created as a conspiratorial gotcha, but it’s still important to remind people of this scenario as they evaluate their prospects.
No because they’re only doing this for Instagram users who are located in the United States. It hasn’t launched anywhere else yet.
Probably because it will be quite illegal in Europe so they probably are not going to do it for European users but it hasn’t launched there yet anyway so we don’t know.
Yeah this Threads issue is getting into the tin foil delusional territory now. Just as you said. They literally say “well use your Instagram acccount” of you bother to read their disclaimers they literally tell you that they are literally using your Instagram account. It’s “Threads by Instagram”. When you first log in it ll import all your Instagram contacts and you cna “follow” them. And if they don’t have it yet it’ll say “you’ll follow as soon as they join threads” there is no “Shadow Threads account, because they are using the Instagram account.”.
You can definitely be against threads and Meta. I Personally am not super thrilled about it. But there is way more than enough to hate a out meta and threads without making stuff up.
I don’t know about you but I was just waiting for an excuse. I ain’t ever going back. It’s a brave new world for me, part of shifting my whole suite to FOSS. Leaving the old internet behind me.
Same, I didn’t know which server suited me so I created three accounts on various Lemmy servers and also one on kbin, but now I’m exclusively using just this account.
I’ve rid myself of reddit (never used Twitter thank God) but I’m still on windows. I just got a steam deck though and I’m loving the Linux desktop mode. What branch of Linux does the deck use? I know I could do a quick Google to find out but damn I love how well it runs. Linux isn’t nearly as scary as I thought
Like taiyang said, SteamOS is based on Arch which is super not newbie friendly, but the desktop modes “desktop environment” is KDE which available on pretty much any Linux distro, including beginner friendly ones like (K)Ubuntu and Fedora (although I’m not sure how beginner friendly Fedora is, regarding proprietary drivers and codecs)
Manjaro is actually the only distro that I would recommend to a beginner, actual beginner in this case is someone that should not be running a single terminal command to get their system to work (which is what people are expecting to do when they tell you to use Endevour or CachyOS lol)
WIth ubuntu/debian based distros you will either have to deal with installing flatpaks/snaps, which come with their own set of issues like not following the system theme, using the wrong system font, issues accesing the internet, issues accesing the home directory (yeah steam flatpak can’t be placed in the home directory lol).
You could try adding PPAs which is not something I would recommend a beginner to do.
Also some games like BeamNG hate having irqbalance, which usually comes by default on debian based distros.
On the other hand Manjaro already ships with pamac which is their GUI store that supports everything, including Aur packages which means 0 issues having to deal with broken permissions or theming if you want to install apps that are usually not found in the official repos.
Their own official repo even includes brave-browser and fastfetch, two apps that I use that are usually very hard to find in other distros.
As long as you only keep the Manjaro repos in your system, it is like using it on Arch, which even you Arch the Aur isn’t perfect.
Because the Manjaro repos don’t sync at the same time with the Arch repos, you might not be able to install/update some Aur packages as the version of X dependency might not match during that time.
But literary, Manjaro has been the most stable distro I’ve run, even more stable than Arch that recently broke on my system and required manual intervention because of their recent changes on their repo migration.
Oh, you’re like me! I did the dive into Linux, SteamOS is a fork of Arch Linux which is super not newbie friendly.
Manjaro is a good Arch Linux fork that works well for gamers, though. Still not idiot proof, as I can atest to breaking it several times, but that’s the deal when you remove the training wheels off your OS.
Lucky it’s easy to reinstall from a USB. A little less if you insist on a duel boot like me, but that’s mostly Windows being a jerk.
I’ll disagree with Taiyang about Manjaro; I think it diverges too much form Arch and much prefer EndeavourOS (which is what I’m using at the moment).
With that said, I wouldn’t recommend anything Arch-based for a first timer. Quick sidebar: in Linux the “distribution” (the OS, basically - the variant of Linux) is separate from the desktop environment (the GUI). SteamOS uses the KDE desktop. If you like that, I think I’d recommend Kubuntu as a good Linux distro to start with. It’s Ubuntu with KDE instead of the default Ubuntu desktop, so there’s a ton of documentation and pretty much every app will work on it.
!linux is very active and a great place to ask questions and/or read up, or feel free to DM me!
I personally wouldn’t push anyone away from Arch towards Ubuntu. Ubuntu broke with every major update and you always are running older “stable” versions of software unless you add a bunch of PPAs that are disabled on major updates and left to the user to sort out. And I’m not even going to get into the joy of Snaps. =(
IMHO something like EndeavorOS or CachyOS would far and away be both more stable, and a better noob experience. Or if you’re just gaming, install SteamOS, because if you haven’t broken it on your deck you probably wouldn’t be breaking on your desktop either.
I love EOS, but it would be a lot to take in at once for someone new to Linux - learning KDE, the terminal, plus everything else (flatpaks, the AUR, and so on) is a lot. At least Kubuntu still has the familiar (to them) KDE but has a GUI app store and never needs to use the terminal. It depends how generally tech-savvy the person is I guess.
That is why I see Ubuntu as a non-starter unless you are prepared to deal with it’s crippled usage by default, because adding anything is a surefire way to have it implode on version upgrade. Meanwhile, on a rolling release, baring things that break for most everyone, you just upgrade when convenient and go about your day. I just don’t see Ubuntu as anything that should be suggested to anyone w/out command line knowledge and strong Google-fu, because it’s not if - but when will your system implode with Ubuntu.
I wasn’t really looking for a replacement, just wanted to break my reddit addiction which was hampering my productivity. Lemmy isn’t a replacement in the sense, but a nice change and something new to try.
Same. I adopted a google account a long time ago, but I’ve finally hit my limit on what they’ve been doing with youtube and everything. Free and open source alternatives are the way to go, it may take a while to catch on or may never fully, but who cares. Switching to linux recently was the best thing I’ve ever done.
Absolutely no surprise there. When you keep the barrier to entry low and throw in an algorithm to increase “engagement” via outrage, the soup turns to poison quickly.
This is why every time someone says the Fediverse is “too confusing,” I just smile and nod. That attitude of petulant, lazy, self-imposed gatekeeping is what’s keeping the Fediverse a much nicer place to be.
I don't really think it's fair to pretend that, before two weeks ago, anyone under god had any idea what an instance was unless they were already heavily tech-oriented.
It took me hours of trying to read through not-my-kind-of-jargon to understand what the hell I was looking at and what kind of consequences that unexplained choice would have, and it really seems like a good number of users that initially struggled forget the learning curve extremely quickly the moment they're over it.
Decision paralysis is real even for stupid things. Like, “what are the implications if I pick the wrong instance?” Was something that made me put off finishing signing up for mastodon and I’m not embarrassed to admit it. Acting like it’s trivial isn’t helpful to anyone even if it was trivial or you
Yeah decision paralysis definitely delayed my joining any ActivityPub based sites, but really most of what it affects is stuff that wont matter until you’ve spent enough time on the platform to understand the difference to begin with
It was a case of: Lemmy.ml isn’t accepting new users atm BeeHaw requires me to tell them why I’m a good user So does this other instance… Why do I have to justify myself!? Hey, Lemmy.world let’s me just sign up! Perfect!
And that was how I chose an instance. Thank you for joining story got with Valek
It took me hours of trying to read through not-my-kind-of-jargon to understand
I started off going down that road of trying to understand it, but my laziness and impatience got in the way and said "just start using it and you'll work it out." And that's exactly what happened for me. In a way, the explanations made it all sound much more confusing than it really is. Sometimes you just gotta take a deep breath and dive in.
Honestly, you're right, and I think the analysis paralysis that the fediverse immediately presents isn't really helped by the fact I'm just generally a neurotic person. Wanting/NEEDING to understand how every aspect of something works and why lends itself really well to things like linguistics and biology, but I feel bothered when I skip the tutorial in a game I already know. What if I missed something and I'll never be able to figure out how buttons work.
Don't worry, I hear ya! I'm currently 4.9 hours in on my first run of the story game, Detroit. People in the reviews say it is a short game and they have less than 3 hours playtime ... but I don't wanna miss any narrative or clues! haha!
I joined Mastadon in December and that's when I first tried to understand it all. I researched a server to join and it was right confusing ... what if I picked the wrong one? Then I pretty much abandoned the account because I didn't understand how to stay on my own server while browsing around (also didn't help that I'd never used Twitter either, so I didn't actually know what I sposed to be doing lol).
Then the whole reddit debacle happened and I signed up for a Lemmy & Kbin. And there was all the jargon again. But I think because I was actually jumping ship from reddit, this time I wanted my move to have staying power. So it was unusual for me to "skip the tutorial" but I was getting so frustrated with the jargon, while I could see others were already having conversations. And it was through the participation that the jargon finally defined itself. I even use my mastodon now, as well!
Oh, I never realized the storylines in Detroit were that short. I'm exactly like you, and I've also found that the more games I play at once, the less I enjoy any of them. So my hands are a bit tied in terms of backlog and that one's been on the backburner for...years, now that I think of it. But That bumps it up my list considerably if I can 100% it in like 3 days.
I was very close to giving the fuck up initially, though. You know what the biggest encouragement was when I was signing up? When I was looking through the comments on kbin, someone said all the hoops would keep the idiots out, and I will put in a _lot _ more energy if it means both showing off and being where the idiots aren't. I'd say having a barrier there really has done some good for the overall quality (for now), but the people claiming it's good to make sign-ups as hard as possible are sometimes the same people claiming there isn't a barrier at all, and it comes off as very strange elitism.
Reading the explanations and advice people were giving to each other made a whole lot more sense than anything the internet was handing me, but even some of that could be head-scratching, and hands-on is probably the best way to go. Not without its dangers. I still think I got incredibly lucky to end up on an instance I like this much. Imagine having admiration for the dev for once.
I never realized the storylines in Detroit were that short.
quick Google search tells me average play-thru time is 12hrs and completionist is 32hrs, so I dunno what I was looking at. I'm 5hours in, so it remains to be seen whether it's gonna take me 32hours or 64hours minimum. 🤣 You'll have to forgive me, it's the steam sale so I've been looking at lots of games. Not that I need any more because I've probably only ever touched a quarter of my library, if that!
someone said all the hoops would keep the idiots out,
Yeah I liked that take as well. That layer of jargon really is a fantastic filter.
The Matrix but they use the Matrix protocol on a The Matrix themed Matrix IRC channel talking about talking about The Matrix in the Matrix protocol in a The Matrix themed Matrix IRC channel (woops sorry that is the Matrix 2 I think my bad)
There’s also a way to add matrix usernames to Lemmy accounts, so it’s possible to make an app that ties the two together. Is that a feature people would care about?
Man I’d love that. I feel like we will soon honestly. I just hope the lemmy/Kbin apps bring these other federated projects inside, so we can do it all on one app too.
The default “Local/Active” sort algo needs to be tweaked. It makes it look like there are no new posts for days. If you use All with Top Day, Hot or New there’s way more going on.
My first instinct would be to say, "This is the 21st century, learn to use a damn computer already!" But then I think of the long term and WANT people to think it's too hard to join Mastodon or Kbin, just to keep the average IQ of these sites above room temperature.
IMO if technical difficulty is the filter, it would actually only select for people good at computers. There are otherwise dumb, shallow people who are good at tech.
(I’m not saying its difficult using lemmy, just replying to the idea in general)
I know I’m an old school techie, but was there really a high entry bar for lemmy compared to say twitter or Instagram? I honestly don’t know, other than r3dd!t the last social media I signed up for was what? Facebook well over a decade ago?
If the few steps it took to make a user name, pick an instance, and then get my head around the fact that I had to also join any instance I wanted to respond to, is enough to keep the unwashed internet masses out, well, they are just even dumber than I already thought.
Non-techy guy here. I read an infograohic and made an account. 0 issues whatsoever. And the infographic was just to help me understand how it works. You don’t really need to understand lemmy to interact with it
Because stating a wrong fact is the fastest way to get the right answer?
So, if I have an account on one instance, and I want to login / reply to another, how do i do that. I’m using the liftoff app.
I take it I shouldn’t have more than one instance login? Don’t worry, at this point I’ve only got two, it really didn’t seem right when I was making the second one.
I don't actually use an app as I'm on PC. I often use the search option on kbin to find the local version/link of a magazine or post, so that I can subscribe or comment to anywhere on the social networking Fediverse, from one account.
I actually have two kbin accounts but the 2nd is just a backup in case my usual instance goes down for whatever reason. I also have two Lemmy's (a main and a backup) but I prefer the feel/interface/features of Kbin better, so those are pretty much backup accounts too. Regardless, I don't need them all ... just one, this main account, to browse, subscribe, and comment to other fediverse threads and magazines.
You should be aware that Lemmy uses ! in it's links, while kbin uses @ ... (example !nails@kbin.social compared to @nails@kbin.social) ... sometimes that's all you need to change to find your local version in the search.
Many people genuinely give up at the “pick an instance” stage.
Part of it is a slight failing for not blasting “if you join any of these instances you can respond to posts on any of these imstances’ communities” but also the level of tech literacy has fallen off of a cliff post-smartphone world.
Bolstering technology literacy (I’m talking simple things like: what is a file browser, where do things you download go by default, what are some common file types for music/videos/applications) need to be added to public education because there’s clearly a decline happening here that will have downstream ramifications.
I’d say it’s less so a decline and moreso a lack of literacy to begin with. The number of relatives I have that are fucking stupid with the internet is insane. And surprise the kids are just as stupid with tech, since the parents are dumb and companies made tools for them and the kids.
Yeah, I think the late 20th century and then some of the 00s were a sweet spot where there was finally cool stuff to do with tech, but you still needed to learn some skills to do them. Though even those skills were pretty basic.
I remember a kid in high school coming to me to see if I’d burn him a custom CD and he’d pay me and I was surprised because I thought it was all pretty basic shit that all it took was trying to figure it out. Though on the other hand, that was during the era where many discs were lost to buffer underflow and you had to be patient enough to not really use your computer for anything else while a CD was burning at like 2x speed (the hardware would go faster but then the underflow was more likely).
Though in hindsight, that might have just been my family’s shitty computer at the time. My dad was semi tech savvy but generally bought shitty computers, compaqs with Celeron CPUs and no graphics card. Though we did at least have a dedicated 56k line (which would only get speeds of like 48k, though later when the line was switched I do remember seeing the occasional 64k which confused me because I thought 56k was the fastest a connection could be).
I used to think the next generation was going to out code, design, and trouble shoot me in five years, and that the one after that would make me feel like a dinosaur in my 30s.
Now I’m almost 50, and the army of tech savvy teens coming for my job simple hasn’t materialized. With the ease of use of so many devices, a world where “plug and play” actually exists, the effort and skill requirement for most things has gone way down. On top of that, the battle for attention is so great that there is always something easier to go play with, and if it requires a bit of noodling to make it work, screw it.
For a bit I thought “Great, job security!”, but now I’m at the point where I need to think about finding interns and replacements, and unless they come from one of the historic tech pipelines like PC gaming or the makers community, not a lot of kids have that kind of background.
There are great programs now in the schools for making app, 3D printing, graphics, music, etc, that draw kids into technology. However, like everything else it’s all slick and user friendly. You don’t have to spend hour after hour figuring out how to make the thing work.
I watched my two year old nephew trying to swipe on the pictures in a magazine and was confused why they didn’t move. He was basically born with an ipad in his hands.
I agree completely that a basic computer class covering those things and more should be standard in schools. Now we have niche tech courses akin to the woodshop and autos class of my high school, but they are electives, and don’t cover the fundamentals.
Yeah I dove into Lemmy and Mastadon with very little research and even Mastodon with its “pick an instance you like first” step was extremely easy. I ended up on smaller instances for both and honestly I like it. Best part is, if you feel some FOMO either make another account on another instance or in the case of Mastadon export your account and migrate it to the new instance
This this this. The fediverse being “confusing” keeps the idiots, boomers, trolls, and overall horrible people away. Having to learn something new is too much for those people. Lemmy/Mastodon and so on are “nerd” platforms, and I really like it that way.
Easy on the boomer stuff. You just lumped “horrible people” into the same group as regular people that happen to have lived more years than you. If you are looking for a “nerd” platform, you’ll do well to remember that there are a ton of extremely nerdy boomers out there and you just helped turn the soup to poison for them
Yeah dude let’s just federate with an instance maintained by a corporation that has undoubtedly caused a genocide in Myanmar by turning a blind eye to a far-right hate speech group that caused an entire fucking minority to flee into another country.
I don’t get why people are supporting and saying “oh it must be up to the user” like bro this is the company we’re dealing with. Fuck that fuck threads fuck zuckerberg i don’t want his shit cancer near something that’s going well so far.
I’m not sure if federating will help meta so much as it will definitely (most probably) hurt the lemmy/mastodon network.
Here’s a similar case that happened before, with the XMPP protocol being coopted by google but eventually killing it in favor of their own proprietary solution:
And thus is the problem with charging tech oligopolies with being the arbiters of truth: sometimes they disagree with you, but whatever they believe is “the truth”, because they make it so.
OK, I’ll bite. You got something more substantial than “I read it on the internet” to back that up? One reputable source on your accusation? Not sayin’ you’re lying/wrong, just asking for some verifiable proof.
Numerous actual popular accounts and news sources have been suspended. It was major news in the Arabic-speaking world in October. Meta even apologized for auto-translating Palestinian as “terrorist.”
You know, you have access to search engines too. You don’t need to be lazy and treat the rest of the Internet as your personal stenographer/research assistant.
Fucking HELL, despite how increasingly easy it is to find information, it cannot keep pace with just how utterly fucking lazy people are getting.
Only if you tried searching first and didn’t find anything. If it’s on the first page of Google if you just try searching the claim, then other people shouldn’t need to link it for you.
No, just no. If you want strangers to take what you say seriously then you should show the simplest respect by supporting your claims with the reason(s) you have them. Laziness is flapping your mouth off and expecting to not have to back it up.
Well a good friend of my girlfriend is from Gaza. He has been posting translations from his sister’s account of what it is actually like living there right now. Then some AI artwork behind stories of “this place was bombed, my friends just were killed, etc…” and he got a big notification on Instagram that “his account has been restricted for violent hate speech” even though he didn’t incite violence even one time. He just has posts with 2nd person stories of the situation there.
At the moment this is coming from secondary sources from within meta so there are no articles about it that I’m aware of. But Palestinians and activists constantly have their content removed, account reach limited, and comments removed (which has happened to me multiple times). People also have their accounts threatened and removed.
These actions are visible constantly, meta have been doing this since the start. For example, when you go to someone’s stories at the top it might show 4 or 5 stories, but when you click through to their profile there’ll be 20+.
Some people I follow don’t even show up at the top anymore and I have to access their stories via their profile page or if I’ve messaged them recently.
After (as of this reply) eight hours, you have produced nothing more than anecdotal evidence if not outright invented. I must assume at this point you are spreading disinformation for whatever your goals may be to that end.
What do you think it’s about? Because from my perspective changing instances is kind of the entire defining feature that separates it from commercial platforms.
Some of the time it is though. Like Gmail has a pretty large list of IPs it won’t deliver email from. When self-hosting, it’s something you really do have to worry about.
The reason most people don’t worry about it is that most people only use a handful of free emails and organizations that provide email addresses for their users spend time worrying about it so users don’t have to.
No. I definitely prefer email with good spam blocking. I’m not criticizing Google for blocking mail how they do. It’s pretty necessary. Which is also something you learn fairly quickly if you try to self host.
Indeed it is, they’re not saying you have to make an account on that person’s server, they’re saying that you can make it on a different server, that’s the point of federation you can join other servers that are connected to them. It’s not to be fully open without any limitations, because if it were then content moderation would be impossible.
Services like Nostr have this problem, they are like the wild West where anything goes and you can’t do anything about it. To some people that seems great but the fact of the matter is those services are filled with right-wing trolls and crypto scammers (likely plenty of other nasty stuff as well) because they cannot be moderated.
Mastodon, Kbin, the new Lemmy 0.19 release allow on a per user basis to block entire domains, so I don’t see how this is a “you can’t do anything about it” situation. Just let users decide.
Lemmy 0.19’s instance blocking does not filter users, only communities, in addition it does not solve the problems of content polution because it does not limit interaction from blocked malicious users in any way, just hides them (it only really works under the assumption that they’re not malicious users and the blocker is just throwing a fit). For these reasons it is not and cannot be seen as an a replacement to defederation.
Also as I already said users are 100% free to decide, they decide by choosing their instances. If you don’t like it you’re free to host your own or move to a more open protocol like Nostr. The idea of federation was built around the idea of communicating with certain instances and blocking others, not about users individually choosing the servers they connect with, Some servers do operate democratically but in the end the fediverse is designed around servers so servers have every right to choose.
Also I’d like to address the “defederation will kill the fediverse” claims I’ve seen floating around. It won’t in fact it’s a dedicated feature of activitypub and has been in use since forever, instances are able to block ones that go against their values either due to the way those instances are operated or the users they allow on them. This is how it’s worked since the beginning and almost certainly how it will continue. Some users don’t like this and believe that they should be able to access stuff no matter what, failing to realize that they do not own the server their account is hosted on, accessing content on other servers via activitypub requires the content be copied over to your home server, and if the admins don’t want that they can block that server, you don’t really have a say in it because it isn’t your server. So either host your own where you do own it, or move to a more open protocol which exist for the purpose of user freedom and anti-censorship.
I’ve been spending a majority of my time on here when I do my “Redditing”. I only visit the old site for niche topics. I spend as little time as possible there, I don’t upvote or downvote anything, and I don’t comment either. It’s read-only for me out of principle. I save all interactions for the fediverse.
I doubt all the communities will rebuild elsewhere, but I’m okay with that. Some fragmentation is necessary. Smaller communities make individual voices louder, and you have less ugly “sidedness”. When humans get into a critical mass IRL they can start to do strange things, I think we see this in social media as well.
I agree. Both mastodon and Lemmy are far more entertaining than their corpo counterparts. People are more genuine and overall more intelligent on the fediverse. I feel that smarter folks care more about privacy and digital ethics lends itself more to foss and the fediverse in general.
I have way more fun on Lemmy. I do need some of the more esoteric an vast archived content from reddit from time to time. For that I just google reddit and no longer sign in. Fedi will get there soon enough though.
I don’t think people really understand that reddit is an 18 year old product. Their original site was iterated on for 10 years before they stopped building on it.
Lemmy will get there and beyond. As the fediverse attracts more users, it will also attract more contributors. I’m starting to learn Rust myself in hopes I can contribute to the project at some point down the line.
That was the best era. The source code was open sourced, subreddits members know each other pretty well, the most prolific reditors are not reposters or super-mods. Actually fun AMAs and community-initiated events (meetups, secret santa, etc). Now it’s all gone, replaced by a TikTok clone.
I was on reddit before the digg exodus, and the current state of lemmy feels somewhat reminiscent of those times. When communities are smaller there is just a completely different feel than the 1 million+ subscriber goliaths some subreddits became.
Honestly, this is exactly how I feel too. I remember browsing Reddit when Digg was my primary source and Reddit felt so small and unpolished at the time! I don’t know if Lemmy will grow in the same way as Reddit did, but it is certainly on the right path.
That’s exactly what it feels like. It’s so refreshing and I like the fact I can scroll for about 30 mins, exhaust my feed and step away. I don’t get sucked in for most of the day like Reddit.
I completely agree. I’ve been hopping on in the morning and in the evening and I don’t feel like I’ve missed anything and I still feel like I’m contributing. The total opposite of how it was with Reddit.
If there’s one place where I think the wrong Reddit attitude is starting to crop up is the anti/pro sync discourse that’s going on.
People are even outright lying about apps. Such as claiming other apps have toms of bugs, meanwhile, I’m trying out sync and there’s a comment sorting bug if you switch to top, some comments show up isolated when they’re a reply to something else, and even have several lines coming off from nowhere if you turn on colored indentations. Never seen this anywhere else, not even on Jerboa which is the oldest and generally least stable. Another bug, although this one I’ve seen, is that Sync doesn’t properly list all self-posts on the profile pages. Meanwhile, sync IS the most feature rich, and others are denying it. One example, Sync not just has an actual toggle for in-comment media preloading (they called them emotes for some reason), they even let you toggle specific services on generic link handling.
What I did here, is what those people don’t. Give specifics. This tribalism is peak upvote downvote fighting style characteristic of big /r/all communities on reddit and I hate it. Garbage threads.
Frankly, I really miss the Reddit of ten years ago, so this is great. Outside of fruitlessly pursuing infinite growth, none of the additions or changes to the site since then have improved it.
I also think you’re going to see Lemmy continue to grow overtime because it does not need to be a Comercial success. It doesn’t need to go through the new owners, whims or financial needs. It’ll just continue to slowly grow until someday it overtakes Reddit. The mere fact that it can’t be taken down is in itself a huge advantage/defense.
The flip side is there are some people who have been here a long time tho…
But they’re almost exclusively rightwingers who were ip banned from reddit. Like the exploding heads instance is/was over a year old, and those people were insanely annoying before everyone defederated.
The more time goes by, the more regular people join and water down that extremism
Yeah I mean looking at the stats of new users, that watering down has already happened to the point where any extremeist shit is statistically insignificant by now. 99%+ of people here are just looking for a replacement reddit and that’s all, rather than some censorship haven where they can chat their extreme views.
I love how people have different opinions and value different things. Personally I so far find Lemmy very very very much not as entertaining as Reddit. The lack of comments in particular makes it way less enjoyable imho. But hopefully it’ll grow.
Its getting there, and there is some entertaining content on here (comments and posts). But I think we are still missing the super high end responses. No matter what the topic, one or two people would jump on and have deep specialised knowledge of the field - be it naming an insect from a blurry image or commenting on a geopolitical situation. I still see lots of posts that generate nothing more than “huh” or “wow” type comments.
When that starts appearing more broadly, I think the quality here is going to take another leap.
I think that’ll only really start to happen once you start getting more of the general population on here.
Reddit always had a reputation for being dominated by techy people, that is significantly more so the case here.
Signing up for Lemmy, even knowing where to start is a bigger leap than it is over there. Personally I’m hoping third party apps will be able to help with that by offering some kind of setup wizard with easy options of suggested instances to join.
i think people underestimate the impact having access to wikipedia has had on the world. really an amazingly important part of the internet and the sharing of knowledge
I bought several physical encyclopedias as a a result of my Wikipedia addiction. Having physical encyclopedias to fall back on is a plus, as their information can’t be taken down by deletionists. I also got the Encarta isos off archive.org running in 86box.
I got suckered by an encyclopedia salesman when I was younger. It was one of the biggest wastes of money of my young life. I had no need for it at that time and later, when I could have used it, I had the internet (or Internet with a capital I back then) and college libraries.
Oof, felt this right in the geriatric millennials.
Mfer I was doing assignments where I had to scroll through index cards to find the encyclopaedia, then hand write out the essay.
It’s weird when you go from being the disruptor demographic to realising that when your 5 yo kid jokes about the 80s it’s as far away in time to him as the 1940s we’re to me - for him it’s a 2d, pre-Alexa, analog dystopia.
Wouldn’t it be better to have more specific tags like movies? e.g. “Sexual content”, “Gore”, “Death”, “Violence” or for content that you truly want to avoid; “US Politics”.
Personally I’ve never liked the idea of NSFL. It just doesn’t feel like it has the eighth connotation, it’s wording feels like it’s meant to be a joke when it’s content is rarely funny. I think just using “Gore” or “Death” would be absolutely better.
Another great one would be for phobias, being able to filter out images of a snake for example if you hate them. Sometimes the title filtering can do that but that doesn’t work when someone titles their picture “look at this cute little guy”
An advanced search would be so fing good for Lemmy. I realize that the problem is mainly how most modern search engines can’t do wildcard top level domain searches so you can’t really look up posts from lemmy[.]world or etc., but then Lemmy also has wildly variable domain names too which makes searching all the more difficult. A solution for this is so critical for discoverability and usefulness
If we federate with Meta, we will be immediately drowned out by the huge user numbers of the Meta properties. They already have more users on day one than the entire fediverse.
I mean, if they actually subscribe to threads and discussions across instances, and isn't that kind of the point of a social network? For users to use it? Also odd that half the arguments against it are that it will kill the fediverse and half of the arguments are that it will provide too many users to the fediverse.
Meta willingly under-moderated across large swaths of east Asia and Africa, leading to unchecked rumors and tangible acts of genocide. Zuckerberg has compared himself to Augustus Caesar.
I think it’s acceptable to cut off a wildfire before it spreads.
I'm not asking you to trust them, I'm asking how defederating accomplishes anything? They got more users than the entire fediverse in a single day. We are not hurting them by cutting them off, we are merely making the fediverse seem more like a barren hostile place for a bunch of weirdo nerds.
The goal is not to hurt meta, but to keep meta from hurting the rest of the federated sites. Like not inviting a known their to the community barbecue because they are known to have stolen tons of food from other community meals. We aren't keeping them from creating their own dinner or anything by not federating, just keeping them away from ours.
Except in this analogy, Meta hasn't stolen food before. They run the largest bbq around, and have bought out previous corporate competitor bbqs, and now they're hosting a giant bbq one way or another, they're just suggesting you put a gate in the fence so that people can flow back and forth between the small community bbq and their large corporate one.
Is that going to make you nervous since they have such a cool giant bbq that people are inevitably going to want to go there? Yeah, but again, that's the case regardless of whether or not the gate goes in.
Meta is showing up to the neighborhood bbq to shoot the cook and buy the grill from the estate sale. There also going to call it supporting the grieving family.
They steal people's data and don't follow data privacy laws. They draw people in with unethical business practices, not fair competition like in your example.
People are not worried about people using Meta outside of the fediverse. In your analogy Meta is already easily accessible through the internet in general and people can feel free to use both without needing a special gate.
Does it look like I care whether or not I agree with the hive mind?
They draw people in with unethical business practices, not fair competition like in your example.
My example included them buying out their competition which is not fair, it's blatantly anti-competitive. Fairness has nothing to do with anything I wrote.
People are not worried about people using Meta outside of the fediverse. In your analogy Meta is already easily accessible through the internet in general and people can feel free to use both without needing a special gate.
And in my example the gate doesn't harm the fediverse at all, it just makes it more convenient for users of both bbqs, being my entire point. There is nothing to be lost by federating with Meta.
Defederating means not interacting with the crowd Meta brings in. I have a bunch of other reasons but that's my main one. And before you suggest blocking, you can't possibly expect me to block all 10M of their users and the domain block is bugged. I know because I tried.
Your point here is that blocking all of meta's instance is too hard because instance blocking is buggy.
Besides, this place doesn't look like much of a barren wasteland since we're interacting with a bunch of people right now. I don't mind interacting with only weirdo nerds if they're nicer people. Quantity doesn't mean quality after all.
This is just refuting my characterization of this place as barren.
For the people who want to interact with Threads because of family and friends, they should just make an account there. Just don't let Meta destroy this small part of the internet.
This is saying nothing other than "Meta will destroy the fediverse", again, without articulating how that would be possible.
The regulatory angle makes the most sense given the scrutiny they're under from regulators, courts, the FTC consent orders, etc. Also entirely possible that the product manager building the project was able to pitch the fediverse because it was the hot trendy thing (NFTs, metaverse, ai, web 3, decentral etc.)
Given their history of buying WhatsApp and Instagram? Those aren't examples of EEE those are examples of anti-competitive corporate buyouts that should be illegal but aren't. Facebook does not have a history of EEE, and continue to be a large open source contributor, maintaining multiple open source libraries, frameworks, and protocols.
Because you can just block their instance.
They're scraping and selling your data regardless, this doesn't change anything.
Sounds like a lot more potential moderators.
I dunno probably the same way that half of Reddit posts are Twitter links. It will be fine. You can stay talking to your nerdy friends in the nerdy communities.
Threads came out of New Product Experimentation (NPE), Meta's (now defunct) experimentation division that produced tons of different experimental apps to see what would stick, or in this case, to have a card to play if a rival social media network were to suddenly implode for some reason. Was it developed in good faith in regards to Twitter or creating a healthy competitive business landscape? No. Was it developed in good faith in regards to the fediverse? Yeah, they're not gunning after the dozens of Mastodon users.
Until someone can actually state how federation with Meta would harm the fediverse, I'm for it. That EEE blog post that everyone keeps circulating does not do that. Its a quite frankly dumb take from someone who loved a protocol so much they didn't realize that users didn't. XMPP never had that many users, Google Talk did. The lesson to learn from that story is not that Google killed XMPP it's that a protocol's openness does not matter compared to user experience. It's awesome if you can have both, but if push comes to shove, and the protocol can't keep up, then the better UX will always win out, even if it's closed.
No, I wouldn't add them or interact with them.
I trust that they will do what they say want to do, which is to try and get a lot of users and make money advertising to them.
Now, I've answered 10 of your questions and I'm still waiting to hear what the problem with federating with them is that's not just someone blindly regurgitating that same blog post, or making vague accusations that they're so intrinsically evil we'll be cursed if we look at them too long.
Lemmy is run by a bunch of tankies and the entire fediverse is under-moderated.
Cutting off a ton of users and content from the fediverse is stupid and everyone in here just keeps coming up with vague generalities because they're scared of Meta rather than have actually thought through what will happen and be able to articulate any actual harms.
i’ll take those “tankies” over completely unaccountable thiel’s buddies any day. actual tankies seem to be contained to lemmygrad where they don’t bother anyone outside of their instance
Do people think socialists or communists are bothered by this term tankie? It’s like called a white person cracker. It’s not really the effect youre hoping for, I promise.
People have articulated all kinds of actual harms, including two possibilities in the OP, but frankly they're irrelevant.
We know what Meta's goals are, and we know they have absolutely no moral standards whatsoever. Exactly how they try to accomplish those goals doesn't matter. We shouldn't give them the opportunity to try anything.
We should be scared of Meta, and we should keep them as far away as possible. Anything else is reckless and stupid at best.
People have articulated all kinds of actual harms, including two possibilities in the OP, but frankly they're irrelevant.
No, they didn't. The harm listed was that Meta will make a shinier platform that will syphon away users, that is happening regardless and is not a harm that is a result of federation, it's a harm that's a result of meta having more money to build a better platform.
We know what Meta's goals are, and we know they have absolutely no moral standards whatsoever. Exactly how they try to accomplish those goals doesn't matter. We shouldn't give them the opportunity to try anything.
There goal is to launch a twitter competitor with a lot of users and make money off advertising. Nothing about that conflicts with the fediverse.
Like I said, this thread is filled with a bunch of people shaking in their boots about the company who must not be named rather than actually providing sober rational assessment of what's likely to happen.
Yeah, you think they give a shit about the fediverse? They’re using ActivityPub because it’s easier for them. They’re not going to want to EEE us, because there’s not enough of us to matter to them.
It's not easier for them, and once there's enough people to matter then it's too late to kill it. The fediverse is growing, and they want to stop that before the fediverse is big enough to matter.
There goal is to launch a twitter competitor with a lot of users and make money off advertising.
They can do that without integrating with the fediverse. The reason they're going to integrate with the fediverse is to embrace, extend, and extinguish.
Yeah, I've read that, and it's not an example of a corporation killing a decentralized network through federation, it's just a normal example of a corporation killing a decentralized network by having more money to make a better app.
XMPP did not die because Google used that protocol, it died because people preferred using Google Talk over any of the XMPP apps. That would be the case regardless of whether Google used XMPP or not.
Real life is not speech and debate, and it isn't an ad hominem to look at Meta's past actions and to expect that they will continue in the same way.
We don't have to have a crystal ball and be able to detail exactly what will happen and when to know that this is bad news. Expecting random internet users to outthink a mega corp and send an accurate and verified copy of their plan is absurd, and it seems like a bad faith attempt at discussion.
“Boo hoo tankies bad, but big corpo run by billionaires who spread misinformation and intentionally act to topple legitimate governments in favor of their fascist agenda are akshually good”
Arguing with people like you (corporate shill) is a waste of time, so I’d rather have fun instead.
Threads has launched, but has federation disabled. So right now Threads is a standalone system, and it and the Fediverse cannot intercommunicate.
If Threads later adds in federation but all the of the Fediverse blocks them, we're in exactly the situation that exists right this minute. And that doesn't seem to be hurting the Fediverse at all.
Growth at any cost is the mindset that not only ruins anything good for profit, it is also the exact issue we are facing now in real life with the right gaining traction in many liberal and multicultural democracies.
Because everyone is being let in, without a second thought on if they even should be there, we now have massive social issues with not at all integrated subcultures in Europe that embrace values diametrically opposed to our tolerant and pluralist societies, in turn empowering the right to ruin any progress made in an effort to throw out the brown people again.
The right question to ask is not “can we accept this new member to our society?”, the right question is “should we accept this new member into our society based on their beliefs and values, based on if they can contribute anything to the existing society?”
And to return to the matter at hand, this is what the fediverse is supposed to be. A bunch of communities and little realms, each with their own rules and interests but united in their belief that self determination and democratic structures make for a better and more fair internet. And then we have the meta intruder we are about to welcome with open arms, without any rules or expectations of him to adopt our values and culture, so they bring their own, corporate, centralized culture and use their money to brute force that culture into every place of importance.
It is not racist or intolerant of societies to expect newcomers to assimilate, and ignoring that fact brought us a re emerging right.
And it is not fearmongering or small minded to be extremely sceptical of Facebook trying to establish themselves in the fediverse, they are literally the OG data and privacy violating corporation, they invented echo chambers and connecting extremists. There is zero value to the fediverse in welcoming meta. The only one who wins if that happens is meta.
Exactly. Facebook is a known bad actor. There is absolutely no reason to believe their intentions are anything but evil. Pretending Threads is just another instance is both naive and dangerous. It is a cancer. If allowed to federate, it will metastacize.
The people at Facebook aren't sitting there plotting to make the world worse, they're just sitting there figuring out how to make the numbers go up and since they're an advertising driven business, that means engagement metrics, which leads to the vast majority of their resultant evil. The advertising / engagement driven business model is what is actually evil and what could actually be addressed by legislators.
I assume you only subscribed to text based subreddits then? Never once clicked on an image or gif that came from IG / Tiktok /etc.?
My god stop being such a gatekeeping judgemental douche. Tons of reddit content was on subs like r/aww and /r/animalsbeingderps that was exactly as trite as the stuff posted on IG, if it wasn't directly copied from it.
I am on TikTok and was on Reddit. I like my FYP on TikTok. I go on Instagram to see what old friends are up to and the suggested content is awful and mean spirited. Same with Facebook. I don't want that crap here
I've been on Instagram for 3 years trying to build up an art profile, sharing my artwork. I think it's not Us vs Them, all sorts of people are spread out everywhere online.
I'm happy to be here on the fediverse with my fediverse accounts, not threads. I'm extremely despondent about threads existing.
No reason to be despondent until they actually make the leap to the fediverse and we discuss what the plan is to federate. Threads will not automatically federated with everyone. We will have a long time to look at what threads is and what kind of content they will bring
Different instances will make different decisions and users will go to the instances that suit their preferences. That’a how it is supposed to work and the only way it hurts the Fediverse is if we get flooded with threads complaining that other people have different preference, dammit.
They shouldn’t just defederate from Meta, they should defederate from any other instances that federate with Meta. Like a firewall against late stage capitalism
Why? If you have blocked meta shouldn’t you already be exempt from seeing comments and posts by their users on other instances? Why is this punitive approach needed
Edit: (Alongside downvoting, an explanation might be better suited to change people’s minds, I just eant to know the advantage of this approach since you are excluding yourself from many users and you would have already blocked meta in this scenario)
You’d see comments and posts from their users on other instances that don’t block Meta.
It’s unclear how many users you would actually exclude, I think a lot of users who are on the fediverse right now don’t want to have anything to do with Meta.
As the fediverse grows, there will be different bubbles with not much interaction between those, mainly because some instances won’t be moderated while others will try to create discrimination free environments.
block people from that instance from interactinh with yours
blocks people from your own indtance being able to search theirs
blocks communities from that instance to appear on /all
It doesn’t:
Block comments if done on non blockef instance
Block posts if done on non blocked instance
Is that right? I was under the impression that defederating would block them completely, as that is how it worked over at mastodon, if it doesn’t that seems like a serious oversight.
Why do I see posts/comments from beehaw users on communities outside lemmy.world and beehaw.org?
That’s because the “true” version of those posts is outside beehaw. So we get updates from those posts. And lemmy.world didn’t defederate beehaw, so posts/comments from beehaw users can still come to versions hosted on lemmy.world.
The reverse is not true. Because beehaw defederate lemmy.world, any post/comment from a lemmy.world users will NOT be sent to the beehaw version of the post.
Third instance communities
Finally, we have the example of communities that are on instances that have not been defederated by beehaw.org.
We can see all three of these versions look pretty similar. That’s because for the most part they are. We are identical with lemmy.ml, as lemmy.ml hosts the “true” version, and we get all updates from the “true” version. Beehaw.org will not get posts/comments from us, so beehaw actually doesn’t have the most “true” version of this community.
Translated into the current context:
beehaw.org = your instance, which defederates from Threads
lemmy.world = Threads (sorry folks, just to eplain the mechanics)
lemmy.ml = another instance, which is federated with both, your instance and Threads
Conclusions:
You wont see posts or commens from Threads users in that remote community. You also won’t see reactions to those activities from anyone, anywhere. It’s as if comment chains started by Threads users don’t exist.
Threads will not see posts and comments from you, even if done in communities from instances which are federated with Threads.
But that is a double-edged sword. What if, for example, mastodon.social doesn’t defederate with Meta, but you defederate mastodon.social? Now you’ve just cut yourself off from a huge portion of the fediverse. Admins should defederate from Meta if their community wants to do that, but defederating from other instances that didn’t do that is going a bit too far, in my opinion.
Yay, another week of higher than normal activity, until the fomo kicks back in and they leave yet again cause "everyone is on X/this is sooo complicated/I just wanna see the fallout/whatever excuse justifies their addiction"
Ya that’s what happened with me, I deleted my account once Musk took over and started a Mastodon account and now I’m on Lemmy too and haven’t looked back at either platforms
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